That does not quite follow, you are not comparing like with like. The IRA activity was based on a united Ireland, the ISIS activity is based on Islam. IRA activity was directed against the UK. Non-Catholics were not targeted as being non Catholics, what was targeted was those who were blocking a United Ireland. Historically many who supported an independent Ireland were non Catholic.
ISIS state quite clearly why they do what they do, it is not because they wish a free Syria, or a free Iraq it is because they wish Islam to be the basis of any society they control along the lines defined clearly within Islam.
Totally agree, there is little comparison with ISIS and the IRA. Protestants were targeted because they were protestants. IRA activity was also based on equality, employment, housing and the vote. When peaceful measures resulted in Catholics being killed, they resorted to aggressive measures.
Alright then so does that then make the IRA the fault of all Irish people.
??? No, it does not even make the IRA the fault of all those wishing a United Ireland. You are again though for some reason not comparing like with like. The wish to have a United Ireland is the driving force, the IRA select a method which involves killing people to achieve that end. That method is not written down anywhere or defined as any article of faith in the Catholic Church or in any faith.
IS take as their starting point Islam what they wish to achieve and who should suffer to achieve that end is clearly stated in Islam, they wish Islam to be the dominant and guiding force in any society they seek to create becasue that society is defined in Islam. Most of the methods they select for killing people are defined, who they kill is defined, those who are with them are defined and those against them are defined. Islam is their raison d'etre and it is from Islam that they draw their power and support. That is not the fault of all Muslims but it most certainly is the fault of Islam
So would the IRA base the motivation for their attacks around the Pope and Jesus?
Perhaps the IRA might struggle to do that, but the far right Christian fundamentalists who are quite common in the USA would have no such difficulty, these people plant bombs in abortion clinics and justify it as doing 'Gods work' they constantly abuse and threaten member of the gay community again claiming to be doing Gods work.
those lunatic hatemongers are the Christian version of Isis, I can't really see how anyone could seriously say Isis has nothing to do with Islam, in the same way that one could not say that the Christian extremists have nothing to do with Christianity.
But the facts are that they are both very extreme versions and interpretations of those religions, and both are seen as lunatics and murdering fanatics by the overwhelming majority of people who follow both religions.
Yes, I also realise that Isis are far more dangerous and brutal than the far right Christian nutters, which was not the point, but I also believe that given half a chance the Christian extremists would be just as savage.
Wow so you take it a step further still. Not only do you think all Muslims are as bad as Islamic State, you think all Jews and Christians are as well.
They may not be NOW, but a quick read of any history book will soon show you that both Christianity and Judaism were not shy when it came to being savages who were more than willing to bathe in the blood of the unbelievers,
It is only the fact that AK47s, easy global travel and explosives weren't around at the time that stopped them being just as bloody thirsty and as willing to export their bloodshed around the world,
Some people seem to think that the humans of today have somehow evolved into less brutal humans than the ones who were around just 500 years ago, if anything we are FAR more brutal now than we were then,
only now we have guns missiles and bombs to do our killing for us,
Islam as a religion is around 500 years younger than Christianity, what were Christians doing to the 'unbelievers' back then? burning people alive? oh yeah, they loved a bit of that, mass slaughter? yip indeedy, hanging, flogging, torture, they invented some pretty ingenious ways of convincing the heathen that 'the God of love' was the only religion to follow.
Perhaps the IRA might struggle to do that, but the far right Christian fundamentalists who are quite common in the USA would have no such difficulty, these people plant bombs in abortion clinics and justify it as doing 'Gods work' .
or whataboutery the animal rights lot who destroy research centres, or what about what about..? To compare any of these to ISIS is very very unpleasant intellectually.
Wow so you take it a step further still. Not only do you think all Muslims are as bad as Islamic State, you think all Jews and Christians are as well.
They may not be NOW, but a quick read of any history book will soon show you that both Christianity and Judaism were not shy when it came to being savages who were more than willing to bathe in the blood of the unbelievers,
It is only the fact that AK47s, easy global travel and explosives weren't around at the time that stopped them being just as bloody thirsty and as willing to export their bloodshed around the world,
Some people seem to think that the humans of today have somehow evolved into less brutal humans than the ones who were around just 500 years ago, if anything we are FAR more brutal now than we were then,
only now we have guns missiles and bombs to do our killing for us,
Islam as a religion is around 500 years younger than Christianity, what were Christians doing to the 'unbelievers' back then? burning people alive? oh yeah, they loved a bit of that, mass slaughter? yip indeedy, hanging, flogging, torture, they invented some pretty ingenious ways of convincing the heathen that 'the God of love' was the only religion to follow.
or whataboutery the animal rights lot who destroy research centres, or what about what about..? To compare any of these to ISIS is very very unpleasant intellectually.
intellectually? I didn't compare them to Isis, the premise was that the IRA might not claim to be doing the 'Christian' Gods work,
but that Christian fundamentalist haters and murderers in the USA certainly do make that claim, obviously Isis are far more brutal, but that's probably because they have the means with which to do so, and they live in an area where they were allowed to spread their hatred and had access to a lot of military hardware.
I maintain that if the same people who plant bombs in abortion clinics and murder the staff who work in such places, and who teach their children to shout at gay people that they are going to burn in hell, had the same situations and conditions that Isis have they would certainly be as brutal, they are clearly as fanatical.
You didn't need to post to me twice. I was able to read and digest your points in one go. Your point basically seems to be that Christians and Jews hundreds of years ago were just as bad so it's excusable.
You didn't need to post to me twice. I was able to read and digest your points in one go. Your point basically seems to be that Christians and Jews hundreds of years ago were just as bad so it's excusable.
Clearly posting to you twice was needed as you seem to be seeing things that I didn't write,
could you be good enough to point out exactly where I said either directly or indirectly that any form of religious extremism, brutality or murder by anyone from any religion is "excusable"?
because I can't see where I did say any such thing, and if you feel that I did allow me to assure you I most certainly did not intend to appear to be 'excusing' anything of the sort.
some people do like to put words into the mouths of others.
Under what rule of law? Is there a book or books that they base this state on? Some points.
1) ISIS believes the apocalypse is coming
2) They believe an ‘anti-Messiah’ is coming
3) They are Islamic - specifically Sunni - their laws, belief system, need for jihad and rules of living come from the Hadith and Koran.
4) They have to wage war – and cannot make treaties
5) They believe in free housing, hospitals and food for everyone – as long as they are Muslims. Christians and others have fixed rates of Tax - as the Ottomans practiced for centuries.
1,2 & 5 sound like the beliefs of Trump's appointees.
3 is a generalisation as many Sunnis have suffered from IS, let alone hate IS.
Comments
Well here is a video on figures if you really care, but most Liberals deflect after watching it..
https://youtu.be/g7TAAw3oQvg
Couldn't you just give us a link to some reliable source?
You mean like an election poll?
I know it is a tough video to watch but I did warn Liberals about it before hand.. Not much more I can do.
??? No, it does not even make the IRA the fault of all those wishing a United Ireland. You are again though for some reason not comparing like with like. The wish to have a United Ireland is the driving force, the IRA select a method which involves killing people to achieve that end. That method is not written down anywhere or defined as any article of faith in the Catholic Church or in any faith.
IS take as their starting point Islam what they wish to achieve and who should suffer to achieve that end is clearly stated in Islam, they wish Islam to be the dominant and guiding force in any society they seek to create becasue that society is defined in Islam. Most of the methods they select for killing people are defined, who they kill is defined, those who are with them are defined and those against them are defined. Islam is their raison d'etre and it is from Islam that they draw their power and support. That is not the fault of all Muslims but it most certainly is the fault of Islam
In Islam there is no separation of religion and State when Muslims are the ruling group. Islam is the state and defines how that state should operate.
Which, IMO is one of the biggest problems.
No independent and unbiased moderation.
Applies to all religions equally.
What is it with the alt-right media type presenting everything in a hectoring video? If you care to actually read, with all assumptions given rather than hidden, and all sources cited:
http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2014/nov/05/ben-shapiro/shapiro-says-majority-muslims-are-radicals/
I guess it's quite easy to fool and persuade people with limited evidence if you're doing it in a polemic speech, and easier to share on the internet.
Wow so you take it a step further still. Not only do you think all Muslims are as bad as Islamic State, you think all Jews and Christians are as well.
Perhaps the IRA might struggle to do that, but the far right Christian fundamentalists who are quite common in the USA would have no such difficulty, these people plant bombs in abortion clinics and justify it as doing 'Gods work' they constantly abuse and threaten member of the gay community again claiming to be doing Gods work.
those lunatic hatemongers are the Christian version of Isis, I can't really see how anyone could seriously say Isis has nothing to do with Islam, in the same way that one could not say that the Christian extremists have nothing to do with Christianity.
But the facts are that they are both very extreme versions and interpretations of those religions, and both are seen as lunatics and murdering fanatics by the overwhelming majority of people who follow both religions.
Yes, I also realise that Isis are far more dangerous and brutal than the far right Christian nutters, which was not the point, but I also believe that given half a chance the Christian extremists would be just as savage.
They may not be NOW, but a quick read of any history book will soon show you that both Christianity and Judaism were not shy when it came to being savages who were more than willing to bathe in the blood of the unbelievers,
It is only the fact that AK47s, easy global travel and explosives weren't around at the time that stopped them being just as bloody thirsty and as willing to export their bloodshed around the world,
Some people seem to think that the humans of today have somehow evolved into less brutal humans than the ones who were around just 500 years ago, if anything we are FAR more brutal now than we were then,
only now we have guns missiles and bombs to do our killing for us,
Islam as a religion is around 500 years younger than Christianity, what were Christians doing to the 'unbelievers' back then? burning people alive? oh yeah, they loved a bit of that, mass slaughter? yip indeedy, hanging, flogging, torture, they invented some pretty ingenious ways of convincing the heathen that 'the God of love' was the only religion to follow.
or whataboutery the animal rights lot who destroy research centres, or what about what about..? To compare any of these to ISIS is very very unpleasant intellectually.
They may not be NOW, but a quick read of any history book will soon show you that both Christianity and Judaism were not shy when it came to being savages who were more than willing to bathe in the blood of the unbelievers,
It is only the fact that AK47s, easy global travel and explosives weren't around at the time that stopped them being just as bloody thirsty and as willing to export their bloodshed around the world,
Some people seem to think that the humans of today have somehow evolved into less brutal humans than the ones who were around just 500 years ago, if anything we are FAR more brutal now than we were then,
only now we have guns missiles and bombs to do our killing for us,
Islam as a religion is around 500 years younger than Christianity, what were Christians doing to the 'unbelievers' back then? burning people alive? oh yeah, they loved a bit of that, mass slaughter? yip indeedy, hanging, flogging, torture, they invented some pretty ingenious ways of convincing the heathen that 'the God of love' was the only religion to follow.
intellectually? I didn't compare them to Isis, the premise was that the IRA might not claim to be doing the 'Christian' Gods work,
but that Christian fundamentalist haters and murderers in the USA certainly do make that claim, obviously Isis are far more brutal, but that's probably because they have the means with which to do so, and they live in an area where they were allowed to spread their hatred and had access to a lot of military hardware.
I maintain that if the same people who plant bombs in abortion clinics and murder the staff who work in such places, and who teach their children to shout at gay people that they are going to burn in hell, had the same situations and conditions that Isis have they would certainly be as brutal, they are clearly as fanatical.
I have no time for any religion.
Clearly posting to you twice was needed as you seem to be seeing things that I didn't write,
could you be good enough to point out exactly where I said either directly or indirectly that any form of religious extremism, brutality or murder by anyone from any religion is "excusable"?
because I can't see where I did say any such thing, and if you feel that I did allow me to assure you I most certainly did not intend to appear to be 'excusing' anything of the sort.
some people do like to put words into the mouths of others.
3 is a generalisation as many Sunnis have suffered from IS, let alone hate IS.
I'm sure homosexuals in parts of Africa would say just that.
Islamic extremists murder more Muslims than people from any other religion.
and in the USA.