The Queen's hidden cousins 17/11/11 ch4 9pm

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  • 1fab1fab Posts: 20,052
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    I found this a bit disturbing:

    "Former ward sister Dot Penfold, now retired from nursing, also has fond memories. ‘They were no problem to look after but they were mischievous, like naughty children. Katherine was a scallywag. You could scream at her and she’d turn a deaf ear.’"
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 21,093
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    I noticed that too, very odd, I wonder if she'll be in the programme.
  • bandersist2008bandersist2008 Posts: 894
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    People with learning disabilities were treated completely differently right up to the 70s..The doctors used to advise that they be "put in a home" where they would be "looked after properly." Many people did this, both rich and poor in the mistaken belief that there was no other way... No-one asked questions, hence the rise in abuse and institutionalisation for both staff and patients... very, very sad...
  • gagaaddictgagaaddict Posts: 1,444
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    This looks very good but very spooky indeed. I saw the trailer and their faces (the two cousins) said it all. Compelling no doubt.
  • gagaaddictgagaaddict Posts: 1,444
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    Is anyone watching this?
  • I heart KellyI heart Kelly Posts: 1,266
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    royals have locked their embarrassing relatives away for centuries
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 121
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    royals have locked their embarrassing relatives away for centuries
    Indeed, little Prince John, the Queen's own uncle, was kept hidden, written out of history even!

    Wasn't that programme shocking and sad! Who else thinks that Katherine, when she was young, and even now in old age, bears a stunning resemblence to Anne and Zara?

    I'm afraid the Royal Family need to be seen to be doing much better for her.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 1,931
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    It was nice that the woman at the end had a much better relationship with her sister. The new care home seemed like a rather posh hotel
  • HotgossipHotgossip Posts: 22,385
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    I'm surprised that Princess Diana never got involved in this .... maybe she tried, who knows? The Queen Mother was not the sweet old lady most of the public thought she was.

    It would be a very nice gesture if the Queen and the younger royals had contact with the remaining sister I think.

    I couldn't believe that the family actually lied to Debretts Peerage that both sisters had died. That was really shocking and no way was a mistake.
  • KarlyKarly Posts: 10,468
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    Fascinating and disturbing documentary. I think the main thought I am left with after watching it was what was their point in making it as there seemed to be nothing new told in the actual story of Katherine and Nerissa. The only conclusion I can come to was to bring the story to a new generation and to challenge the royal family about it yet again.

    It is a sad story that there is really no right answer to. Yes, perhaps the royal family should have done something about it in 1987, especially as the Queen Mother was patron of Mencap. But the Queen Mother and to a large extent the Queen were from a different age. It just wasn't "the done thing" then, and no matter how much we want to, we can't translate things that happened decades ago into the values held today. What's done is done and they are where they are.

    To play devil's advocate for a moment, what reaction and media circus would there have been if Katherine had been wheeled out for her name-sake's wedding this year? Would EVERYONE watching been kind and thought it was great? Would she have been bewildered and frightened? None of us know.

    If the Queen doesn't feel able to have any sort of relationship with her cousin, for whatever reason, that is her business and I don't feel in any position to judge her, as I have cousins I don't know and have hardly ever seen, and would find it extremely difficult to try to start any sort of relationship with now. The other Bowes-Lyon sisters and the Burke's peerage fiasco are different matters however, but again, maybe born of the times they were in. I just don't feel able to judge someone on an unwise decision taken fifty years ago by someone generations above them.

    Perhaps the noble and wise thing to do now would be for some of the younger royals to start to visit Katherine and take an interest in her. This would only be if their interest was genuine however, and not a "damage limitation" exercise. Whether the Queen would be comfortable with this or not though, none of us can know - neither can we know how she feels about the whole story.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 1,931
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    Couldn't they have hid them in a private home or were there none ? X
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 1,637
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    The royal connection has been milked to spice this story up, has it not?

    While the girls were very closely related to the Queen, they were not royal and were the responsiblity of the family of John Bowes-Lyon.

    The wider family's role can't be explained by anyone other than them. I know from personal experience that it's not always easy to interfere in the business of relatives, no matter how closely related. And the Bowes-Lyon family was a large one, it seems ridiculous to slate the Queen and Queen Mother specifically.

    As for hiding embarrassing relatives away, the tendency of the Royal Family to do this has been dramatically exaggerated. Prince John being a prime example.
  • riverside 57riverside 57 Posts: 14,380
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    As the mother of a child with special needs, I can empathise with any family, especially back in a time when there wasn't the support there is today, who felt they could not cope with one, let alone two children with learning difficulties, and to an extent I can understand why they would put them into care.

    However, to completely ignore their birthdays, Christmas, and any other occasion by not even sending a card, never visiting them and even denying their very existence by saying they are dead while still alive is quite unforgiveable! It is just disgusting!

    And the Queen Mother as the patron of a society like Mencap, should have at the very least acknowledged her nieces, and shown the world that there is no shame in having a family member who is less than "perfect" by society's standards! After all, the Royal Family's life of privelege is funded by the people, so they should try to relate to the lives of the people!
  • HotgossipHotgossip Posts: 22,385
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    As the mother of a child with special needs, I can empathise with any family, especially back in a time when there wasn't the support there is today, who felt they could not cope with one, let alone two children with learning difficulties, and to an extent I can understand why they would put them into care.

    However, to completely ignore their birthdays, Christmas, and any other occasion by not even sending a card, never visiting them and even denying their very existence by saying they are dead while still alive is quite unforgiveable! It is just disgusting!

    And the Queen Mother as the patron of a society like Mencap, should have at the very least acknowledged her nieces, and shown the world that there is no shame in having a family member who is less than "perfect" by society's standards! After all, the Royal Family's life of privelege is funded by the people, so they should try to relate to the lives of the people!


    Good post. I agree about the presents etc. and also about the Queen Mum and Mencap.

    They were a wealthy family so they could easily have afforded a couple of nurses to live in and care for the 2 girls.
  • cnbcwatchercnbcwatcher Posts: 56,681
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    I recorded it but I'll probably get really upset watching it :( They should never have been treated as though they didn't exist.
  • donna255donna255 Posts: 10,170
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    I remember there were stories way back of a monster born to the Bowe Lyons family kept locked up in Glamis castle. So sounds as the Irish nurse said inter breeding over the years. Poor women pushed aside and even declared dead.
  • chuffnobblerchuffnobbler Posts: 10,771
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    I caught a few mins of this on C4+1 but really want to see the whoel thing. Any ideas if it is repeated? The C4 website is most unhelpful. I can't be bothered to watch TV online and need to see it on a real telly.
  • riverside 57riverside 57 Posts: 14,380
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    I caught a few mins of this on C4+1 but really want to see the whoel thing. Any ideas if it is repeated? The C4 website is most unhelpful. I can't be bothered to watch TV online and need to see it on a real telly.

    It's bound to be shown on More 4 soon enough, just keep an eye out for it. I would say in about a week or two's time.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 1,734
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    This was really interesting. Not sure what to make of it though.

    Wasn't the family told by the hospital that they shouldn't visit once the mother (who did visit) had died - surely this would explain the reason they didn't visit?
  • HotgossipHotgossip Posts: 22,385
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    AJXX wrote: »
    This was really interesting. Not sure what to make of it though.

    Wasn't the family told by the hospital that they shouldn't visit once the mother (who did visit) had died - surely this would explain the reason they didn't visit?

    But they could have still senta birthday or Xmas gift!
  • zx50zx50 Posts: 91,269
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    IF this is true then it's disgraceful! Knowing the Daily Mail however, there'll be something misleading in it.
  • LanceWilkinsLanceWilkins Posts: 182
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    Nothing new here.
    Just taking a pot-shot at the Royal Family.
  • sidsgirlsidsgirl Posts: 4,425
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    I caught a few mins of this on C4+1 but really want to see the whoel thing. Any ideas if it is repeated? The C4 website is most unhelpful. I can't be bothered to watch TV online and need to see it on a real telly.


    I have watched it today on tv on demand. It will be on there for a week.
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