Line Of Duty - New Series BBC2 (No Spoilers)

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  • Zizu58Zizu58 Posts: 3,658
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    We've just watched the final episode and were wondering about the way they subtitled all the updated circumstances of the characters .... this is the type of thing they do after a "true-life" or docu- drama ....

    Presume this is just artistic licence and it wasn't based on true events ?
  • rr22rr22 Posts: 7,618
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    Just artistic way of ending series 1 and 2! No real life peoples lives were depicted!
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 60
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    Normandie wrote: »
    No need to apologise - there's a lot to keep straight!
    But finally, a clarification request from me: does anyone know who Arnott's date was in the pub at the end - the woman he sent away so he could go back to Fleming? I didn't recognise her and wasn't sure if I was supposed to.


    She is DS Nicola Rogerson to DCS Les Hargreaves -- Arnott slept with her during the investigation. They agreed to stop until after the investigation was over.

    She supposedly wrote her number for Arnott on a newspaper for use after the investigation was over, but actually she tipped him off about "Akers' vehicle".

    Hope this helps.
  • SULLASULLA Posts: 149,789
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    I never released that bit was so easy for murderers to get immunity, especially when they do not fully cooperate.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 60
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    The writers admitted to not knowing the end even whilst writing the individual episodes. Whilst this made for terrific viewing, it is inevitable that the conclusion will suffer to a greater or lesser degree. I'm not complaining, and I'm pretty sure that I was loving this program long before you discovered it yourself, but its not compulsory to hype up the finale more than it deserves.
    The Q&A session didn't convince btw.


    Jed Mercurio did say that about the ending. If you knew the process you would see it is probably only a half truth, but his choice. Another example of grey areas perhaps?

    That you think the conclusion suffered because the first 5 episodes were "just written" off the cuff out of the blue and not planned is plainly ridiculous. And for someone who is not complaining, you certainly do appear to be sadly confused.

    How is who started watching LoD relevant? Sorry I just don't get it. I have been a Mercurio fan from the start of his writing (many years ago FYI). I also watched Line of Duty Series 1 about 4 times I was so impressed with it.

    I simply don't get your rather snippy "not necessary to hype up the finale" phrase -- please explain.

    Everyone should be applauding such a brilliant drama writer rather than nit-picking things they are unclear about. This is DRAMA not documentary, although goodness knows JM went to great lengths to make sure it was as near to procedurally correct than any other writer I know.

    Also baffled by the last sentence of your post about Q&A -- the author came across as modest and concerned that the finale did not please everyone.

    Maybe he (and we) need to remember:

    "You cant please all people all the time".
  • whiteswanwhiteswan Posts: 842
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    wOW !! Great thread - just spent a few hours ging through it all !!

    I had saved all the episodes and watched tham all today - brilliant show.

    A few posters mentioned earlier in the thread about Cottan being gay in the first series.

    I don't remember this but I do remember the actor who played him taking on a "dual" role as a pair of eastend gangsters who loved their mum - think it was in "whitechapel" or something similar - and I think at least one of those was gay. (kind of like modern day kray twins)

    Maybe thats where the confusion is coming from.........

    Dave
  • kazzabeeekazzabeee Posts: 529
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    You said it all for me. Loved the series and was so looking forward to last night. Then the flashbacks - and I groaned. I didn't understand why there was a body hidden, so well that the original forensics didn't spot it. And who?

    After Denton's super clever cop - she just leaves all that cash in her bedroom?
    It is still one of the best series so far this year - but the ending seemed very incoherent and somehow - unsatisfactory.

    Don't forget she was under house arrest so when her mum's stuff was brought back to her house, it also contained the money she had hidden with her mum. There was nowhere else for her to hide the money as she was tagged so couldn't sneak the money out of the house unnoticed. Also Kate giving her a lift home gave AC12 the time they needed to search her house as Arnott had already noticed her over-concern at her mum's belongings.

    I'm still upset she got sent down as she was probably the least bent of the whole lot. Excellent performance by Keeley Hawes. If she doesn't get a BAFTA for this, there is something very wrong.
  • rr22rr22 Posts: 7,618
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    I was reading Keeleys interview and she says some of Dentons behaviour can be explained away by her stressful situation and depression such as how does she justify bottling her neighbour quite calmly and coldly. Hawes seems to show sympathy and says she misses playing her!

    Its a shame if we must wait a long time to have series 3!
  • InigoMontoyaInigoMontoya Posts: 1,552
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    I enjoyed the show very much. I had worked out a fair bit of it but not all and that's a bonus, not a disappointment.

    Everyone, of course, has their opinions and their own needs for the extent to which things to be spelt out. I wanted to comment on why, for me, the following were not probllems.
    BUT there were way too many things that weren't explained properly for my liking. Denton was supposedly a pillar of incorruptibility yet within a few minutes she accepts a bribe from a cop she's never met before? A random woman is killed, disfigured and buried but no one seems to care who she was? They made a big deal out of the phone call from Akers to Fleming and then never mentioned it again? And Denton goes from über-clever supercop who can outsmart AC12 to dumbass who leaves a bag of dodgy cash in her bedroom? And an unarmed girl, having just been beaten up, can just run away (at not exactly Usain Bolt speed) from supervillain Tommy and he just lets her go and she escapes?

    1. Denton was a pillar of incorruptibility but with the illness of her mother, the loss of her home and savings, the end of a five-year relationship and an unwilling abortion, all against the background of being ostracized, held back and underestimated for years, she broke. Her attack on the neighbour was a sign of this. What we didn't know was that it was a further sign. A previous sign was accepting the bribe.

    2. The case of the woman buried under the concrete wasn't forgotten. Investigation of that case was in the hands of the Violent Crimes team headed by Hargreaves. Who she was, once it was known that it wasn't Carly, was irrelevant to AC-12 because it was not what they were investigating at the time and once Prasad was in custody, he was given immunity.

    3. Kate will never know why Akers called her because she didn't pick up her messages from Richard. This is a character point for Kate. Given Akers' motives for involvement in the conspiracy were very much like Denton's who had a change of heart on the night and given that Akers was in something of a state when Denton got there, it's not hard to surmise that Akers too was having doubts.

    4. Denton thought she was free and clear and, specifically, she underestimated Steve. Having successfully hidden the money from the previous search, she did not anticipate a second search. Plus, she had to recover the money from the nursing home before she was in a position to put it elsewhere because of the timing of her mother's death. It was part hubris, part lack of opportunity as she was under police watch, part grief that dulled her usually sharp intellect.

    5. Tommy aka Alex Campbell, was not supposed to be up and about making scenes. If he'd attracted attention, both he and Prasad would have had a lot of explaining to do. He wasn't really in a position to go overtly chasing after her.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 9
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    It's long odds on Denton will be back in Series 3. Whatever JM says about real life not fair and the real bad guys get away, it's not often it works on TV or Film, in the long term. She will help nail Cottan and thus ensure her release. Plus Carly Kirke will no doubt return.
    Feel the q and a session, whilst we'll intended, was an error. To say that they shot the full scene of things like Dentons call to Dreyden but didn't have time to show it just doesn't help matters - plus the call from Akers to want to speak to Fleming. WHY? Plus any court case on Denton, presuming she came totally clean, had so many things to take into account I doubt she'd have got "life".
    It was a great series but from reading lots of social media opinions I'd say at least 80% were more than a bit disappointed, even if most knew that there was simply too much to get in one episode. A final episode of 2 hours would have been brilliant..
    There's no way Denton's not coming back Jed - you know that! :)
  • haggishantshaggishants Posts: 88
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    Apologies if this has been answered above...... so the ambush was originally planned for route A . Denton then changes her mind and turns off left so the baddies hit the red alert
    button to change the plan... within a minute the ambush car is approaching down the side road from the other direction. How could they get there so quickly?
  • Ella71110Ella71110 Posts: 4,239
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    Apologies if this has been answered above...... so the ambush was originally planned for route A . Denton then changes her mind and turns off left so the baddies hit the red alert
    button to change the plan... within a minute the ambush car is approaching down the side road from the other direction. How could they get there so quickly?

    Because the dark forces had put a tracker underneath Denton's car so even though she thought she was turning off to get away from them they knew exactly where shed be at all times-which is what she realised straight after the ambush so set about moving it onto Akers car, OK?! :)
  • sheff71sheff71 Posts: 8,016
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    Cracking series, at least as good as Series 1 - and inevitably it's impossible to craft an ending to satisfy everyone.

    I was a little disappointed they ended it with Denton getting a life sentence, i'd have preferred it to be she was awaiting trial (so to allow more wriggle room for the future)... with the way she skilfully dealt with AC12 in the previous 5 episodes, and the potential for incompetent or flawed handling of her case, it was a little surprising she wasn't able to get off on some technicality.

    I guess there is still chance they could bring her back for S3 (either if she gets out on a cockup, or if some other elements from this series reappear (e.g. something to do with Carly). Perhaps they could kill her off in prison, and that lead to an investigation to how she was killed...

    I don't think we can expect to see a series with Cottan as the main target - he's already been proven over 2 series to be a wrong'un, so there's no are they/aren't they guilty thing, like with Gates and Denton. I wouldn't be surprised if they went after Nig though (as a bent cop who is untouchable...well they did go after Dryden!)....and by going for him, that could lead to Cottan being exposed for what he is...unless he can eliminate the links...

    Biggest disappointment (if any) was the flashback to explain what had happened - while in one way it was useful to see what had happened from Denton's perspective, it would've been so much more dramatic to see Arnott, Hastings and Fleming dragging it out of her in one final interview scene - where much of the best drama came... perhaps using the flashbacks alongside it as she explained it to them, justifying what had led to her involvement.

    Loved the series though, excellent writing, great drama and some superb performances all round... Hawes stood out as usual, but the three AC12 regulars all excelled (although McClure was quite dislikeable at times!), and loved Craig Parkinson pulling the strings from the background, watching things fall into place and just keeping a few steps ahead of everyone else.

    Having seen how Dryden met his end on the force, I can understand why Robert Lindsay pulled out now...
  • sheff71sheff71 Posts: 8,016
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    Apologies if this has been answered above...... so the ambush was originally planned for route A . Denton then changes her mind and turns off left so the baddies hit the red alert
    button to change the plan... within a minute the ambush car is approaching down the side road from the other direction. How could they get there so quickly?

    Do we know if Long Lane only had that one connection to the main road - or perhaps at the far end of Long Lane that also linked upto it - in which case, the ambushers being parked there somewhere inbetween would be a good option for a place to wait, knowing they could get in front of the witness car on either road.
  • catsittercatsitter Posts: 4,198
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    We now know from the flashback that Tommy had met Denton before, so how sure could she be that he would "clear her name" if he could talk when he was in the hospital? He might have said, oh yes, I remember her, she came up to me when I was with my witness protection officer (Akers, who Denton claimed not to have met before), and she knew details of my new identity and my car registration. Which would surely add to the case against her?
  • ftvftv Posts: 31,668
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    The closing credits said the CPS were deciding what charges to bring against the corrupt PC who kidnapped Denton - why when he had been given immunity from prosecution ?
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 9
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    How come Prasad didn't recognise Cottans voice? Its very distinguished. He said he took instructions from the middle man from pay phones.

    Theres no doubt Denton did slightly recognise Prasad from their two brief encounters.

    I've lodged an appeal for Dentons release through my local MP who will bring this matter to the attn of MP's at next QT. It's only fair :p
  • Ella71110Ella71110 Posts: 4,239
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    Apologies if this has been answered above...... so the ambush was originally planned for route A . Denton then changes her mind and turns off left so the baddies hit the red alert
    button to change the plan... within a minute the ambush car is approaching down the side road from the other direction. How could they get there so quickly?

    Ah sorry I misread what you were questioning sheff71 had a great explanation as to why they got to Denton so quickly ;)
  • skiprunnerskiprunner Posts: 451
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    She is DS Nicola Rogerson to DCS Les Hargreaves -- Arnott slept with her during the investigation. They agreed to stop until after the investigation was over.

    She supposedly wrote her number for Arnott on a newspaper for use after the investigation was over, but actually she tipped him off about "Akers' vehicle".

    Hope this helps.
    It was the waitress from the coffee bar
  • MajorkeyMajorkey Posts: 328
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    A few thoughts:

    1) If Cottan is the chess grandmaster they suggest, he's certainly leaving a lot to chance. I suppose you could say this is more realistic (and obviously dramatic) but if Denton could quickly round up blackmail material on the AC-12 officers couldn't Dot do the same on all and further paralyse the investigation?

    2) The subplot with the big burly uniformed cop (who watched as Denton was assaulted in toilet) seemed to be a dead end. He wanted his police representative there before answering questions; the AC-12s shrugged and walked out.

    3) At the risk of being an IT anorak (which I am), the deletion of files/data as portrayed is nigh-on impossible from a technical standpoint, especially as Arnott had the same file open simultaneously. From a police standpoint, where evidence of all sorts is tagged, logged, etc. (e.g. the 'lump' tracker on the car), backups and data redundancy would render such a deletion moot and it's doubtful a deletion could be made on the spot without the request approved by higher authority. They could certainly identify the culprit who attempted it but the data would survive. Obviously a plot device but a bit too deus ex machina for an otherwise solid script.

    4) Keeley Hawes has the blessing and the curse of being well in demand, her rocky run in 'Barking In Essex' notwithstanding (Yes I saw it. Yes it was poor.) Her Doctor Who role will be limited but no doubt she has projects dropping over the transom on a daily basis. I like Lennie James but his acting devolved into a few stage-y mannerisms (wipe a tear, remove eyeglasses, grimace, check phone, adjust tie) whereas Hawes was very multilayered.

    5) While I appreciate a realistic police procedural and I understand the need for the police to cover their backsides in order to avoid cases being impeded or dropped altogether, it's a sad commentary that so much of law enforcement (manpower, hours ) hinges on this awkward pro forma Regency ball-style dialogue. The private security types at the women's prison were maddening with their 'answer yes or no' nonsense but that's the only way they can do the job without the prisoners and the lawyers having a field day raving about technicalities before ivory-tower judges.

    Moreover, (too) many pivotal moments occurred immediately after an AC-12 officer shut off the tape recorder i.e. ending that segment of the inquiry. *Click* tape stop, now we're off the record. Suddenly Hastings asks an incisive question and/or the target starts commenting further? No chance - on both sides.
  • tealadytealady Posts: 26,262
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    Majorkey wrote: »
    3) At the risk of being an IT anorak (which I am), the deletion of files/data as portrayed is nigh-on impossible from a technical standpoint, especially as Arnott had the same file open simultaneously.
    Have to say I don't remember anything about files being deleted. Which scene was that and how did it tie in with the plot?
  • tealadytealady Posts: 26,262
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    skiprunner wrote: »
    It was the waitress from the coffee bar
    No, it was Jolly, the one he was seeing during the investigation. I don't recall any coffee shops, plenty of pubs though!
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 3,181
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    It's coming back so someone liked it either at the BBC or the viewers.


    Guardian piece.

    Line of Duty series 1 episode by episode
    , so can answer whether you need to see series 1, to 'get it'
    I'm guessing no, that would just restrict possible new viewer, but like any continuing series it'll probably take a new comer a while before the get 'into' the style of program or buy 'into' the world they've created.
    I'll say this much, like Luther it's 'stylised' i.e. it's not reality, it's set in a world running slightly at parallel to our own, you'll have to buy into it/give it some artistic license if series 1 is anything to go by.

    I'm still not sure what the point was of series 1, even now.
    I tuned in mostly because of Lennie James.

    Ah that reminds me the BBC show with the character 'Gatehouse' Jay Ratten and Kiersten Wareing's bum in jeans, running, I've forgotten the name now, I wonder if that one is coming back?

    Its somewhat presumptuous of you to suggest that `It's unlikely anyone on here has seen any of Series 2`...are you implying it would be over the heads of DS readers....and if you lack any understanding of series one perhaps you should take your own advice and `Go and read some articles about it or something.`
    :D
  • StykerStyker Posts: 49,559
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    Just seen last episode but far too many twist and turns and the actor that played Hastings is it (?) said he hoped all the questions were answered by the end of the last episode but they certainly were not.

    The guy seconded to the anti corruption squad, he was in on the corruption along with Akers and Denton and seems to be the caddy guy, but he wasn't exposed nor did they say what happened to him unless he did get the promotion and is still a corrupt officer within.

    No way was Denton all innocent either and I knew she couldn't have been.

    That DS, male one was a right tart too wasn't he?!
  • apaulapaul Posts: 9,846
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    Cotton's position was resolved. He's signed up with AC12 and will be there in series 3. Plus the whole point with Cotton, and at a lower level, Morton is that corrupt policemen can get away with it and continue to be corrupt.
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