Or, he could be really tight with David Cameron. Hairdresser indeed.
Oh, New Park, I didn't look at this last night. A hairdresser.....that's ridiculous...maybe he's a great guy, but please....compared to the time and energy devoted to charity by other people....go figure
Men Behaving Badly really was brilliant. Totally different...true..but not the rubbish you might expect. It was hilarious and risqué and sometimes rude but in it you could see the seeds of Martin's brilliant acting. If you give it a chance you will be able to see that beside someone who acts like a moron sometime that Gary is insecure, steady and loves Dorothy very much. It's that vulnerability thing again that makes all of us fall in love with him...again and again. Start on series 2 episode 1 and let your hair hang down. It is really funny if you just ride with it. Keep watching and you will see more. MBB was a brilliant start to Martin's career. Britain has never gotten over it.
Good suggestion. I guess I'll have to break down and watch it!
Margaret's "does he listen to you" comment was very odd. It seemed as if she were trying to manipulate Louisa into having Martin give her money, but there could be more to it. Any thoughts?
Margaret's "does he listen to you" comment was very odd. It seemed as if she were trying to manipulate Louisa into having Martin give her money, but there could be more to it. Any thoughts?
Don't you think it was like "testing the waters" to see how much effort she needed to put forth pretending to be nice to Louisa? In her marriage I'm not sure who wore the pants. I doubt Christopher listened much to her as Martin said, " I'm not like Dad, you can talk to me." I daresay that their marriage was rocky and confrontative after Christopher discovered what an evil witch she was and sought other women to fulfill his needs. Margaret probably got meaner and more bitter with frustration.
Yes, that was Margaret getting the lie of the land prior to delving into her money grubbing scheme. Other ideas?
Lizzie...I have no idea how old you are, but it's important not be an uptight old biddie. It's very very funny. That goes for anyone watching MBB
Mofromco, I'm sorry, but I think this borders on an ad hominem attack. It seems like you are saying if you don't think MBB is extremely funny, you're an "uptight old biddie." It is offensive on two fronts: 1) castigating anyone who doesn't share your love for MBB, and 2) denigrating older women with epithets usually thrown by people who are not women and not older. I have been on the forum for two-plus years and I want people to freely express their opinions, but I think we cross the line when we attack others personally. This is the kind of thing that causes good people to leave the conversation.
Mofromco, I'm sorry, but I think this borders on an ad hominem attack. It seems like you are saying if you don't think MBB is extremely funny, you're an "uptight old biddie." It is offensive on two fronts: 1) castigating anyone who doesn't share your love for MBB, and 2) denigrating older women with epithets usually thrown by people who are not women and not older. I have been on the forum for two-plus years and I want people to freely express their opinions, but I think we cross the line when we attack others personally. This is the kind of thing that causes good people to leave the conversation.
Oh my, I certainly did not mean to attack or insult anyone and if someone wants to call me an "old biddie"...which I am......I find it humorous, not a particularly potent or serious. And it is taking things out of the order which I said them. I was inferring that if one doesn't relax and let their hair down that it might be difficult to enjoy Men Behaving Badly. The converse was not stated....that if you don't enjoy Men Behaving Badly then you are an "old biddie. I never said that so I find your reaction way over the top.
My post is not going to cause anyone to leave the forum. It did not mean to insult anyone and the term is just a silly harmless colloquialism. If I really meant to hurt or burn someone I would have certainly used a different term of endearment. I'm sorry, but you have really overreacted on this one. Peace and love LC. I'm sorry this made you mad. I'm still a bit astounded it did.
Oh my, I certainly did not mean to attack or insult anyone and if someone wants to call me an "old biddie"...which I am......I find it humorous, not a particularly potent or serious. And it is taking things out of the order which I said them. I was inferring that if one doesn't relax and let their hair down that it might be difficult to enjoy Men Behaving Badly. The converse was not stated....that if you don't enjoy Men Behaving Badly then you are an "old biddie. I never said that so I find your reaction way over the top.
My post is not going to cause anyone to leave the forum. It did not mean to insult anyone and the term is just a silly harmless colloquialism. If I really meant to hurt or burn someone I would have certainly used a different term of endearment. I'm sorry, but you have really overreacted on this one. Peace and love LC. I'm sorry this made you mad. I'm still a bit astounded it did.
Unfortunately, there have been a good number of people who have left the forum in the past year or so who complained that they felt attacked. They have complained here, on FB, and on other social media sites. As I have said many times, I am all for free discourse and the exchange of ideas - even unpopular ones - but I draw the line at calling names. I'm sure you did not mean to cause offense, but that does not mean what you said is not offensive and counterproductive to free discourse.
Unfortunately, there have been a good number of people who have left the forum in the past year or so who complained that they felt attacked. They have complained here, on FB, and on other social media sites. As I have said many times, I am all for free discourse and the exchange of ideas - even unpopular ones - but I draw the line at calling names. I'm sure you did not mean to cause offense, but that does not mean what you said is not offensive and counterproductive to free discourse.
Lizzie...I have no idea how old you are, but it's important not be an uptight old biddie. It's very very funny. That goes for anyone watching MBB
I'm actually mid-40's so I'm far from being an uptight biddie...
And I understand what you were meaning to say and I am not offended. I know how much you LOVE MC so the context to me was pretty clear. DM is my first exposure to the work of MC. The little bit of what I have seen of past work just doesn't appeal to me at all and that's my taste and my opinion.
You mean that locking your child in a cupboard underneath the stairs is not sadistic? You mean the smacking your child with a belt or a table tennis paddle is not sadistic? Sorry Mona, I respectfully disagree. Even her behavior trying to separate him from Louisa and bring her into her own camp was sadistic. She is absolutely evil.
Well, those childhood punishments were done by Christopher, not Margaret. He may very well have been a sadist.
And, without everyone freaking out, so common now on the forum, I was commenting on sadism from the sexual point of view, since 50 Shades of Grey had been mentioned around the same time.
That Margaret gained any type of pleasure from being cruel to DM is not actually known, so my point about sadism stands.
I feel she has more sociopathy in her than sadism.
I'm no psychologist, so no doubt NewPark can discuss this much better, but psychopathy characteristics includes: superficial charm, grandiose sense of self-worth, pathological lying, conning/manipulative, lack of remorse or guilt, emotionally shallow, callous/lack of empathy, failure to accept responsibility for one's actions, parasitic lifestyle. That's Margaret to a tee.
She's a psychopath/sociopathy pretty clearly if we are trying to fit her into a DSM-IV category.
DM is my first exposure to the work of MC. The little bit of what I have seen of past work just doesn't appeal to me at all and that's my taste and my opinion.
Lizzie - I understand completely what you are saying. When I first discovered DM and MC, I was so taken with MC that I started looking for other things he had done. I think William & Mary was the first one I found. I also watched a little bit of MBB and had the same reaction that you did. MBB is not the type of show that I would usually waste precious time on, and I didn't really find MC very attractive in the clips I saw.
But, after watching some of his other older work, the younger MC started to grow on me. When I found that the entire MBB series was on YT, I decided to give it a try and started right at S1E1. To my amazement, I liked it more and more as I watched and by the time I had finished all the episodes I was sad that there were no more. If you really watch them all you will see what Mofromco said about Gary's vulnerability. Another thing I loved about the series was something that I heard MC say in a few old interviews - that it was the two women who were the brains and were always proved right in the end. While on the surface it looks like a series about two stupid lads, what keeps them going are the two smart and clever women who keep them grounded.
My 23 year old son loves the old US and British shows from the 70s, 80s and 90s which he labels "bromances." It is always about two or more stupid guys who are saved by two or more smart women. The US movie industry cranks out one of these bromances annually to great financial gain. "The Hangover" has reached cult status and has become the bromance to beat. MBB was a precursor of this genre so it does have a place in popular culture --- for what that's worth!
I agree. I can name a score of people who were regulars who do not participate in the forum anymore. When asked why, many said they felt attacked or that the lighthearted end of the spectrum was missing from the forum. I'm sorry if my calling out pejorative epithets made anyone uncomfortable. Hopefully, we can move on.
I agree. I can name a score of people who were regulars who do not participate in the forum anymore. When asked why, many said they felt attacked or that the lighthearted end of the spectrum was missing from the forum. I'm sorry if my calling out pejorative epithets made anyone uncomfortable. Hopefully, we can move on.
The most important thing to me is that you, Lizzie cUS, are not offended. My previous post had the real message in it, the second was just a tease. I am a teaser, that's just the way I grew up. It is not malicious because I can assure you, I am not a malicious person. I bear no ill will toward anyone. I do find adversity for the sake of adversity frustrating and a bit immature. I wouldn't use an epithet, as you call it, if I thought it would really hurt someone.
I really enjoy this forum. It gives one room for longer posts and a chance to enjoy some social intercourse about DM and the lovely Mr. Clunes on a bit of a higher level. The minds and writing skills of everyone here have impressed me. All I'm left with though, is what did I do? I apologize to everyone. It's just getting a bit Bodmin here. Sincerely, your friend. Melinda
I hate to say this, but Louisa sort of blames Martin for a lot of things. His mother blamed him for a lot of things. Not exactly the same - Louisa isn't mean like his mom and his mom blamed him when he was a child. But still... I love Louisa but I hope they will have her admit her part in the problems they are having. Does Louisa know how to be married? How good is she at it?
Not taking sides here, just saying. Seems like we've been playing the blame game here on the forum. I guess it made me think about it in the context of the show. We all play our part in every situation. I am not judging.
I'm no psychologist, so no doubt NewPark can discuss this much better, but psychopathy characteristics includes: superficial charm, grandiose sense of self-worth, pathological lying, conning/manipulative, lack of remorse or guilt, emotionally shallow, callous/lack of empathy, failure to accept responsibility for one's actions, parasitic lifestyle. That's Margaret to a tee.
She's a psychopath/sociopathy pretty clearly if we are trying to fit her into a DSM-IV category.
When I practiced I frequently saw people who had run afoul of the law in some way or other. Very often, my reaction to those people was "There but for the grace of God..." etc., but sometimes I would find one of these folks, usually a man, quite charming, and then alarm bells would start to go off, as sociopaths can be extremely charming, and indeed, use this to "get off" on others and get away with stuff. Christopher is a charmer, but on the other hand, Margaret is certainly charmless. I don't know how I would classify her. A cold, heartless b**tch, may be the best classification.
I've always thought about Martin's parents in terms of the phrase about abusers and the abused: "People who hurt, hurt." We have very little information about Christopher or Margaret Ellingham's childhood. The closets we have is that Margaret was a thief "at school" from Aunt Ruth. If they abused Martin it may have been because one or both of them was also abused as a child. I don't give either of them a pass for abusing Martin, but it is an unanswered question about Martin's parents that might come to the fore in Series 7.
I hate to say this, but Louisa sort of blames Martin for a lot of things. His mother blamed him for a lot of things. Not exactly the same - Louisa isn't mean like his mom and his mom blamed him when he was a child. But still... I love Louisa but I hope they will have her admit her part in the problems they are having. Does Louisa know how to be married? How good is she at it?
Not taking sides here, just saying. Seems like we've been playing the blame game here on the forum. I guess it made me think about it in the context of the show. We all play our part in every situation. I am not judging.
Don't her frustrations come out more like she's blaming him though? I guess I've never seen her blame him for the way he is or acts. I just see her getting frustrated by his behavior and her response to whatever the situation is just comes out mean.
The multiplicity of their actions on the whole make them both to blame for the mess they're in. It's not one or the other.
When I practiced I frequently saw people who had run afoul of the law in some way or other. Very often, my reaction to those people was "There but for the grace of God..." etc., but sometimes I would find one of these folks, usually a man, quite charming, and then alarm bells would start to go off, as sociopaths can be extremely charming, and indeed, use this to "get off" on others and get away with stuff. Christopher is a charmer, but on the other hand, Margaret is certainly charmless. I don't know how I would classify her. A cold, heartless b**tch, may be the best classification.
Ruth has made some comments about their childhood. She said she was never allowed to call him "Daddy". And at Joan's funeral she said something about her parents.
I'm no psychologist, so no doubt NewPark can discuss this much better, but psychopathy characteristics includes: superficial charm, grandiose sense of self-worth, pathological lying, conning/manipulative, lack of remorse or guilt, emotionally shallow, callous/lack of empathy, failure to accept responsibility for one's actions, parasitic lifestyle. That's Margaret to a tee.
Yes, but isn't it also a fitting description of Christopher? :o:o
Too bad LE is unaware of what DM's parents were like. Maybe she'd cut him a little more slack.
Doc Martin has a medical advisor and, per Martin Clunes, the show is medically accurate. Do you think they will have a psychologist or psychiatrist advising on Series 7 if the writers do intend to explore Doc and Louisa's problems. For the Brits: would these issues have to be medically accurate as well?
Doc Martin has a medical advisor and, per Martin Clunes, the show is medically accurate. Do you think they will have a psychologist or psychiatrist advising on Series 7 if the writers do intend to explore Doc and Louisa's problems. For the Brits: would these issues have to be medically accurate as well?
It's one thing to have a medical advisor for DM to make sure he doesn't prescribe the wrong medication or course of treatment, but it is another thing entirely to expect a psychologist or psychiatrist be an advisor to this series to make sure of accuracy. I always thought psychiatry was not an exact science. We, who are fans of this series, can't even pinpoint for sure just what all the problems and issues are of Martin and Louisa! We have thrown the ball of blame from one side of the court to another and still, as the series continues, more layers of M & L come to the surface (or layers unpeeled), making each of them more complex.
Comments
Oh, New Park, I didn't look at this last night. A hairdresser.....that's ridiculous...maybe he's a great guy, but please....compared to the time and energy devoted to charity by other people....go figure
And remember the question she asked Louisa in the kitchen the morning after her arrival in Portwenn..."does he listen to you?"
Good suggestion. I guess I'll have to break down and watch it!
Lizzie...I have no idea how old you are, but it's important not be an uptight old biddie. It's very very funny. That goes for anyone watching MBB
Don't you think it was like "testing the waters" to see how much effort she needed to put forth pretending to be nice to Louisa? In her marriage I'm not sure who wore the pants. I doubt Christopher listened much to her as Martin said, " I'm not like Dad, you can talk to me." I daresay that their marriage was rocky and confrontative after Christopher discovered what an evil witch she was and sought other women to fulfill his needs. Margaret probably got meaner and more bitter with frustration.
Yes, that was Margaret getting the lie of the land prior to delving into her money grubbing scheme. Other ideas?
Mofromco, I'm sorry, but I think this borders on an ad hominem attack. It seems like you are saying if you don't think MBB is extremely funny, you're an "uptight old biddie." It is offensive on two fronts: 1) castigating anyone who doesn't share your love for MBB, and 2) denigrating older women with epithets usually thrown by people who are not women and not older. I have been on the forum for two-plus years and I want people to freely express their opinions, but I think we cross the line when we attack others personally. This is the kind of thing that causes good people to leave the conversation.
Oh my, I certainly did not mean to attack or insult anyone and if someone wants to call me an "old biddie"...which I am......I find it humorous, not a particularly potent or serious. And it is taking things out of the order which I said them. I was inferring that if one doesn't relax and let their hair down that it might be difficult to enjoy Men Behaving Badly. The converse was not stated....that if you don't enjoy Men Behaving Badly then you are an "old biddie. I never said that so I find your reaction way over the top.
My post is not going to cause anyone to leave the forum. It did not mean to insult anyone and the term is just a silly harmless colloquialism. If I really meant to hurt or burn someone I would have certainly used a different term of endearment. I'm sorry, but you have really overreacted on this one. Peace and love LC. I'm sorry this made you mad. I'm still a bit astounded it did.
Unfortunately, there have been a good number of people who have left the forum in the past year or so who complained that they felt attacked. They have complained here, on FB, and on other social media sites. As I have said many times, I am all for free discourse and the exchange of ideas - even unpopular ones - but I draw the line at calling names. I'm sure you did not mean to cause offense, but that does not mean what you said is not offensive and counterproductive to free discourse.
Let's all play nicely in Doc Martin's sandbox!
I'm actually mid-40's so I'm far from being an uptight biddie...
And I understand what you were meaning to say and I am not offended. I know how much you LOVE MC so the context to me was pretty clear. DM is my first exposure to the work of MC. The little bit of what I have seen of past work just doesn't appeal to me at all and that's my taste and my opinion.
Well, those childhood punishments were done by Christopher, not Margaret. He may very well have been a sadist.
And, without everyone freaking out, so common now on the forum, I was commenting on sadism from the sexual point of view, since 50 Shades of Grey had been mentioned around the same time.
That Margaret gained any type of pleasure from being cruel to DM is not actually known, so my point about sadism stands.
I feel she has more sociopathy in her than sadism.
I'm no psychologist, so no doubt NewPark can discuss this much better, but psychopathy characteristics includes: superficial charm, grandiose sense of self-worth, pathological lying, conning/manipulative, lack of remorse or guilt, emotionally shallow, callous/lack of empathy, failure to accept responsibility for one's actions, parasitic lifestyle. That's Margaret to a tee.
She's a psychopath/sociopathy pretty clearly if we are trying to fit her into a DSM-IV category.
Lizzie - I understand completely what you are saying. When I first discovered DM and MC, I was so taken with MC that I started looking for other things he had done. I think William & Mary was the first one I found. I also watched a little bit of MBB and had the same reaction that you did. MBB is not the type of show that I would usually waste precious time on, and I didn't really find MC very attractive in the clips I saw.
But, after watching some of his other older work, the younger MC started to grow on me. When I found that the entire MBB series was on YT, I decided to give it a try and started right at S1E1. To my amazement, I liked it more and more as I watched and by the time I had finished all the episodes I was sad that there were no more. If you really watch them all you will see what Mofromco said about Gary's vulnerability. Another thing I loved about the series was something that I heard MC say in a few old interviews - that it was the two women who were the brains and were always proved right in the end. While on the surface it looks like a series about two stupid lads, what keeps them going are the two smart and clever women who keep them grounded.
I agree. I can name a score of people who were regulars who do not participate in the forum anymore. When asked why, many said they felt attacked or that the lighthearted end of the spectrum was missing from the forum. I'm sorry if my calling out pejorative epithets made anyone uncomfortable. Hopefully, we can move on.
The most important thing to me is that you, Lizzie cUS, are not offended. My previous post had the real message in it, the second was just a tease. I am a teaser, that's just the way I grew up. It is not malicious because I can assure you, I am not a malicious person. I bear no ill will toward anyone. I do find adversity for the sake of adversity frustrating and a bit immature. I wouldn't use an epithet, as you call it, if I thought it would really hurt someone.
I really enjoy this forum. It gives one room for longer posts and a chance to enjoy some social intercourse about DM and the lovely Mr. Clunes on a bit of a higher level. The minds and writing skills of everyone here have impressed me. All I'm left with though, is what did I do? I apologize to everyone. It's just getting a bit Bodmin here. Sincerely, your friend. Melinda
Not taking sides here, just saying. Seems like we've been playing the blame game here on the forum. I guess it made me think about it in the context of the show. We all play our part in every situation. I am not judging.
When I practiced I frequently saw people who had run afoul of the law in some way or other. Very often, my reaction to those people was "There but for the grace of God..." etc., but sometimes I would find one of these folks, usually a man, quite charming, and then alarm bells would start to go off, as sociopaths can be extremely charming, and indeed, use this to "get off" on others and get away with stuff. Christopher is a charmer, but on the other hand, Margaret is certainly charmless. I don't know how I would classify her. A cold, heartless b**tch, may be the best classification.
Don't her frustrations come out more like she's blaming him though? I guess I've never seen her blame him for the way he is or acts. I just see her getting frustrated by his behavior and her response to whatever the situation is just comes out mean.
The multiplicity of their actions on the whole make them both to blame for the mess they're in. It's not one or the other.
Ruth has made some comments about their childhood. She said she was never allowed to call him "Daddy". And at Joan's funeral she said something about her parents.
Yes, but isn't it also a fitting description of Christopher?
Too bad LE is unaware of what DM's parents were like. Maybe she'd cut him a little more slack.
http://www.acorndvd.com/doc-martin-series-6.html
It's one thing to have a medical advisor for DM to make sure he doesn't prescribe the wrong medication or course of treatment, but it is another thing entirely to expect a psychologist or psychiatrist be an advisor to this series to make sure of accuracy. I always thought psychiatry was not an exact science. We, who are fans of this series, can't even pinpoint for sure just what all the problems and issues are of Martin and Louisa! We have thrown the ball of blame from one side of the court to another and still, as the series continues, more layers of M & L come to the surface (or layers unpeeled), making each of them more complex.