bbc red button

GeordielaadGeordielaad Posts: 141
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Does anyone know how, when I went to press the red button on bbc1 to watch the Olympic swimming trials all I got was the bbc iPlayer? Is it something to do with being with Virgin?
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  • PiazzaCharliePiazzaCharlie Posts: 1,471
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    The BBCi red button isn't available on Virgin Tivo boxes yet. (except the iPlayer).

    Although we've had the short straw since Tivo came out, they are finally launching all singing all dancing new BBCi red button stuff on Tivo next month. For the Olympics we'll have 24 HD streams of coverage!
  • anywho'sanywho's Posts: 202
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    I'm pretty sure the 24 streams will be online only. Cable/satelite will have 8 (non HD), and freeview will have 2.
  • PiazzaCharliePiazzaCharlie Posts: 1,471
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    I thought I'd read that Tivo users will be getting the full 24 streams. Although all I can find now is this from Virgin, which mentions bringing together all the live streams from the BBC’s existing Red Button service, video streams on-demand and additional content from BBC Online.

    virgin article

    EDIT - it was this thread:

    forum link

    Either way, I'm not sure how this fits in with the BBC having to reduce the number of red button streams to just one? :confused:
  • THOMOTHOMO Posts: 7,446
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    I thought I'd read that Tivo users will be getting the full 24 streams. Although all I can find now is this from Virgin, which mentions bringing together all the live streams from the BBC’s existing Red Button service, video streams on-demand and additional content from BBC Online.

    virgin article

    EDIT - it was this thread:

    forum link

    Either way, I'm not sure how this fits in with the BBC having to reduce the number of red button streams to just one? :confused:
    The BBC Red Button service is going to be reduced for all TV services to just one after the Olympics.
    Ian.
  • PiazzaCharliePiazzaCharlie Posts: 1,471
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    Well that makes some kind of sense. So they're bigging up this "next-generation TV experience", which we'll get for the summer, and then we'll lose it?

    Or is it the case that although the number of broadcast streams will be reduced to one, Tivo will be able to deliver multiple Online streams via the App?
  • ShawnaShawna Posts: 569
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    Or is it the case that although the number of broadcast streams will be reduced to one, Tivo will be able to deliver multiple Online streams via the App?
    Yes. The BBC is cutting back on traditional broadcast streams and instead wants the red button to serve as a mechanism to deliver more online content (such as those 24 Olympics streams) via TiVo, Smart TVs and other connected devices.
  • PiazzaCharliePiazzaCharlie Posts: 1,471
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    Thanks for that - having thought the whole red button thing was going to be greatly reduced, its good to now hear that we'll actually get more than ever.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 4,856
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  • tom e1649tom e1649 Posts: 1,018
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    Shawna wrote: »
    Yes. The BBC is cutting back on traditional broadcast streams and instead wants the red button to serve as a mechanism to deliver more online content (such as those 24 Olympics streams) via TiVo, Smart TVs and other connected devices.

    That's all very well if you're in a cabled area or your internet is fast enough to receive such streams. What are the rest of us meant to do? I expect the BBC's answer is 'tough cheddar'.
  • mossy2103mossy2103 Posts: 84,307
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    tom e1649 wrote: »
    That's all very well if you're in a cabled area or your internet is fast enough to receive such streams. What are the rest of us meant to do? I expect the BBC's answer is 'tough cheddar'.
    It's all down to budgets, efficient use of resources, and cost-savings, with traditional broadcast distribution costs far outweighing those of the internet. Read this article to gain an appreciation of the BBC Trust's view on this:


    http://www.broadbandtvnews.com/2010/11/12/bbc-red-button-costs-are-disproportionately-high/


    Of course, had the Licence Fee not been frozen, there might have been some room for manoeuvre.


    Another article:
    The BBC’s pseudo-interactive Red Button TV service has high reach but is appreciated by viewers less than BBC online services and must cut costs by moving from text services to video-centricity, the BBC Trust has concluded
    http://m.paidcontent.co.uk/article/419-bbc-red-button-underperforms-websites-and-must-cut-costs/
  • tom e1649tom e1649 Posts: 1,018
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    Perhaps members of the BBC Trust don't live in an area with slow internet. It's all very well improving speeds from 10mb to 20mb in cities, but some of us in rural areas are still struggling to get more than 1mb with little sign of improvement.

    I'm not against the license fee, but we're going to be paying for these services that we cannot yet receive. It is not the BBC's fault that broadband speeds are not up to scratch, but they need to acknowledge that these online streams will not be accessible to all.
  • mossy2103mossy2103 Posts: 84,307
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    tom e1649 wrote: »
    Perhaps members of the BBC Trust don't live in an area with slow internet. It's all very well improving speeds from 10mb to 20mb in cities, but some of us in rural areas are still struggling to get more than 1mb with little sign of improvement.
    Perhaps you should lobby the private ISPs who don't see the commercial advantage in spending their money on installing the braodband infrastructure.

    Ironically, maybe it's fortuitous that the BBC is having to spend some of its Licence Fee on rolling out fast broadband:
    NEWS

    The government has revealed that £530m of public money will be invested in expanding the UK's broadband footprint over the next four years.

    Chancellor George Osborne said today the cash will help fund the government's universal service commitment of 2Mbps broadband by 2015, and help roll-out superfast broadband out to rural regions which might otherwise miss out.

    A spokesman for the Department for Culture, Media and Sport (DCMS) said that £300m of the £530m will come directly from the BBC licence fee, with the remaining £230m funded by underspend in the UK's digital TV switchover fund.

    "[The BBC] will contribute to the £530m we will spend over the next four years to bring superfast broadband to rural parts of our country that the private sector will take longer to reach," Osbourne said.
    http://www.silicon.com/technology/networks/2010/10/20/bbc-licence-fee-to-help-fund-superfast-broadband-rollouts-39746520/
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 10,271
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    mossy2103 wrote: »
    Perhaps you should lobby the private ISPs who don't see the commercial advantage in spending their money on installing the braodband infrastructure.
    It's not the ISPs fault. And besides many people on low incomes don't even have the internet at all, why should they be excluded from a service, available to those more well-off?
  • DazinhoDazinho Posts: 2,643
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    It's not the ISPs fault. And besides many people on low incomes don't even have the internet at all, why should they be excluded from a service, available to those more well-off?

    Perhaps the BBC should add a TV channel for their Red button services.

    Better not, come to think of it. They would be accused of Empire Building :D
  • mossy2103mossy2103 Posts: 84,307
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    It's not the ISPs fault.
    Why, in a free market, is it not the fault of the ISPs when it is they who have failed to invest in the necessary infrastructure that would bring fast broadband to all areas (and would no doubt increase their own revenue streams)?

    Or perhaps the Government should be using far more taxpayer money to install that infrastructure?

    Or perhaps it all went wrong when BT was privatised (and when shareholder dividends became more important that looking to the future and investing in that future)?
    And besides many people on low incomes don't even have the internet at all, why should they be excluded from a service, available to those more well-off?

    Oh, I agree that the oft-quoted "digital divide" is a social and economic issue, but in all fairness, that is something that affects people in all areas of their life, especially when the Government is seeking to get more people to do Government business online. In short, it is becoming more of a social problem for the Government, rather than one restricted to the BBC (or Channel 4, or ITV, or any other content provider).
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 10,271
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    Dazinho wrote: »
    Perhaps the BBC should add a TV channel for their Red button services.

    Better not, come to think of it. They would be accused of Empire Building :D
    On Freeview/DTT they used to have three TV channels for their Red button services, was reduced to one to make room for HD.

    Moving away from universal services to web-based ones is reducing the universality of services.

    Do you actually support that?
  • PiazzaCharliePiazzaCharlie Posts: 1,471
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    It's not the ISPs fault. And besides many people on low incomes don't even have the internet at all, why should they be excluded from a service, available to those more well-off?

    I'm not sure what the solution would be. Presumably no-one would suggest the BBC scrap their website because some people might not have the internet.
  • DazinhoDazinho Posts: 2,643
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    On Freeview/DTT they used to have three TV channels for their Red button services, was reduced to one to make room for HD.

    Moving away from universal services to web-based ones is reducing the universality of services.

    Do you actually support that?

    I do not support that no - we all pay the same so should receive the same.

    My point was more that if the service is removed, the BBC are criticsed, if they had additional channels to make the service universal, they would be criticised, and by having a reduced service and also by relying on the internet, they are criticised so they cannot really win. They would have been criticised had they not put their HD channels up too (we just have to look at the Channel 5 HD thread to get an idea).

    I think in terms of what the put on the Red Button, they are making the best of the position they are in - the mainstream programs go on to the TV's with extras on the Red Button to minimise what people lose out. That said, they do not always get it right.
  • mossy2103mossy2103 Posts: 84,307
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    Moving away from universal services to web-based ones is reducing the universality of services.

    Do you actually support that?

    Well, do you support the BBC spending money on less-efficient distribution channel (as identified by the BBC Trust)?

    Do you support the findings (and instructions) of the BBC Trust in this regard?


    BTW, I think that the HD mux was not of the BBC's choosing.
  • mossy2103mossy2103 Posts: 84,307
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    I'm not sure what the solution would be. Presumably no-one would suggest the BBC scrap their website because some people might not have the internet.

    Indeed, is it not part of the BBC's Charter, as one of its Public Purposes, that they promote new technologies?

    Public purposes: Delivering to the public the benefit of emerging communications technologies and services

    BBC Trust definition of purpose remit

    BBC viewers, listeners and users can expect the BBC to help everyone in the UK to get the best out of emerging media technologies now and in the future.
    Purpose priorities

    The BBC Trust, after public consultation, has divided this remit into six specific priorities:

    Make engaging digital content and services available on a wide range of digital platforms and devices.
    Work with the industry to deliver a UK-wide network of digital television.
    Increase coverage of DAB (Digital Audio Broadcasting).
    Support Digital UK's communications activity to build awareness of, and readiness for, digital switchover.
    Work in partnership with other organisations to help all audiences understand and adopt emerging communications technologies and services.
    Support the Government's targeted help scheme to help the most vulnerable during digital switchover.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/aboutthebbc/insidethebbc/whoweare/publicpurposes/communication.html
  • tom e1649tom e1649 Posts: 1,018
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    "Less efficient" indeed. Well it's less "efficient" for me to subscribe to Sky to have access to both tables of the snooker on Eurosport because my internet access isn't fast enough for the BBC's internet streams. I don't watch a lot of broadcast television, but I do love my snooker and wouldn't want to do without it.

    I'm sure many people could identify areas where the BBC has wasted money. Has the BBC Trust picked up on any such instances though? The red button service is actually useful in my opinion, not a waste of money.
  • mossy2103mossy2103 Posts: 84,307
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    tom e1649 wrote: »
    "Less efficient" indeed. Well it's less "efficient" for me to subscribe to Sky to have access to both tables of the snooker on Eurosport because my internet access isn't fast enough for the BBC's internet streams. I don't watch a lot of broadcast television, but I do love my snooker and wouldn't want to do without it.

    I'm sure many people could identify areas where the BBC has wasted money. Has the BBC Trust picked up on any such instances though? The red button service is actually useful in my opinion, not a waste of money.

    Perhaps you should address your concerns to the BBC Trust then:


    http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbctrust/contact/index.shtml
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 3,605
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    On Freeview/DTT they used to have three TV channels for their Red button services, was reduced to one to make room for HD.

    Moving away from universal services to web-based ones is reducing the universality of services.

    Do you actually support that?

    Did they not have 2 services on Freeview - 301/2? Now only 301.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 10,271
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    Did they not have 2 services on Freeview - 301/2? Now only 301.
    In order to make space for HD broadcasts in the future we need to now switch off two of the three interactive streams we use to deliver BBC content on Freeview. This means that Freeview viewers will no longer be able to see the BBC News Multiscreen and the interactive stream (known as 302) will also cease to be used for Red Button content.

    BBC Red Button Changes on Freeview - BBC Website (October 2009)

    * My bold highlighting
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 4,856
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    Blogs on Red Button from Friday 9 May 2008 to the present day

    Given there is usually one stream 301 for most content and 303 for CBeebies games, I reckon it is still a good service. Come the Olympics Red Button and other LCNS will cover the Olympics.
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