This is the issue, no one has even said what the bill was for, just saying its a gas bill.
Richmonds said all they are told is that edf said a gas bill hasnt been paid, not what the amount is for or anything when we contacted them for the keys to be returned, just saying they just get told to take action basically against them.
Richmonds should have that information as that is what they need to take to court to get the warrant as well as serve it.
This looks like one of those cases where all they have seen is their fee for doing it. You really need to get in touch with EDF and request copies of all corrispondance they have sent you including any dates they visited.
Also obtain full proof that there isn't any gas being used, this can be done by getting copies of the yearly CORGI inspection sheets.
This sounds a bit fishy to me.
Are you sure your sister has NO gas? even if she is using very minimal like a hob or something??
I presume the guy came and installed a prepayment meter as i'm aware that is what they do when they get a warrant for entry??
Are you sure she hasn't recieved any bills at all?
I do suggest you phone in and request to talk to somebody superior to find out what exactly has gone on!
So many reminders and red letters are sent before it gets to warrant stage so this does sound very strange!
Im pretty sure she has no gas, their is even a sticker stuck to the meter stating something along those lines by the housing association or someone they got to do it.
As for the prepayment meter, i dont think hes even done that, he must have seen the sticker and realised is wrong? Also they are not trained meter people i dont think, so i think they couldnt remove the old one as that would surely have to be some gas engineer?
And yes, im guaranteed shes never had any bills from them. She would have said before now if shes had one as would have contacted edf earlier to say why sending a bill when no gas on
But like I said, I have read online on google that Richmonds are not a nice firm and have chased people who owe no money in the past from what I found once somewhere.
They also stated on another forum in 2006 are meter readers for energy companies and wanted someone to get in touch regarding that, but no one has been to read her meter that she remembers or left a note asking to do it.
This is what their site says about them: Serivces to the Energy Market - Providers of Debt and Metering Services to the Gas and Electricity Industries.
1) Richmonds are a debt collection agency. EDF will have sent them your account to chase the debt, and once they're unsuccessful in doing so, EDF then tell them to take it to court and get a warrant to access the property and disconnect your gas supply.
These companies can also do other activities such as meter reading.
2) Police are NOT required to enter a property and disconnect a meter in England and Wales.
What you need to do: SPEAK TO EDF!!!!!!! I can't make that any clearer. SPEAK TO EDF.
EDF will then take your details and address the situation. However I must warn you, if they've gone all the way to court and entered your property, they may want to charge you fees for doing so.
Well if that is the case it is a bad idea. The Police should be involved with any forced entry as it helps protect everyone involved.
They're only involved if the situation requires it.. such as a potential breach of the peace or if the people performing the disconnection feel threatened while performing the action. I appreciate it's different in Scotland, you guys have a totally different process for even getting the warrant than in England/Wales.
They're only involved if the situation requires it.. such as a potential breach of the peace or if the people performing the disconnection feel threatened while performing the action. I appreciate it's different in Scotland, you guys have a totally different process for even getting the warrant than in England/Wales.
I know certin areas of England make it compulsary that the police attend as I have done one or two with a friend who works down around Blackpool
I do work for a company who do 30-40 a day so I know what's normal and what isn't.
Not dobuting you just from my experiace working in England in the field of forced entries we had the police with us for all of them.
Just think though that having the Police is a better system as you are protecting everyone involved from any accusations that the tennant may have or from any danger they pose even if they are considered non violent you never know what will happen.
We had one up here a few years ago that was supposed to be easy just a case of slip the lock and in you go well. The door was reinforced and was in no state to be used again after getting in and it wasn't the expected older couple we had to deal with who were supposed to be nice but a bit of a violent younger couple and beind the door the police also found a drug den.
the debt collectors have entered the property to collect on a debt, which they supposedly have a court order for
but they cant remove anything without knowing if it is neccesary for the occupiers use, & without leaving a receipt as to what has been removed
or
they have entered in order to change the meter
but this would involve someone else to actually change the meter, & they would have to leave some sort of notification that this had been done
&
how would the occupier know how to use a prepayment meter without instructions being left
It sounds like your sister has a gas supplier, and a gas supply, but doesn't use gas.
If EDF have been unable to read the meter, then they will have been estimating a bill.
Your sister sounds like she may have a bit of a head-in-the-sand approach to this, so maybe she has been ignoring her gas bills because she doesn't have gas ? Alternatively, they may just need to do a reading, to verify what she says.
There really is no substitute for just picking up the phone and explaining these things sometimes. You will usually get far further with a bit of two-way conversation rather than anything written.
If you sister has been signed up with a gas company and has used no gas in 5 years but still has the meter there is a good chance that the money is accumulated gas standing charges over those 5 years. I do not think it is enough that the Housing Association have put a notice on the meter. If she is able to use the gas but choses not to I think she will still be liable for the standing charge.
You have had some good advice so far John_Doe. Complain to EDF in the first instance and request someone to look into the matter.
When a gas company have been able to gain entry to the property, it is usually done after quite some time. Debt process usually takes months and months of letters, phone calls and after that, the details of the debt are transferred to a debt collector agency and the warrant is arranged soon after that. If the tenant has not been in contact, the bailiff, locksmith, and engineer will go out to the property and change the meter into prepayment. They also should leave a notice on the door, telling the person what has been enforced and how to gain information regarding the new meter,i.e. the gas company. They will leave credit on the meter as to not leave the customer without gas or electric.
I'm confused as to what has happened though - it seems as though (as one poster mentioned earlier) that the gas company didn't know that although your sister isn't using gas - housing associations are notorious for NOT telling gas companies information like this - however the gasboard has instead been estimating bills. Unless told otherwise by your sister or yourself, the gasboard would have believed that gas might have been used at the property.
I hope you get some resolution for this - apologies for the long post!
Yes johnny_t makes a good point. It's quite possible they've been estimating the usage for what ever reason (rightly or wrongly) and a debt has built up. Your sister will feel this is nothing to do with her as she doesn't use gas, but the fact still remains she should have rang EDF when that letter arrived to stop things getting this far.
EDF have exercised their legal right to enter the property, either to check for a gas meter, to fit a pre payment meter or to disconnect the meter.
The power companies have the law on their side in situations like this. If they attempt to contact the property owner over a debt by visiting the property and sending letters, but get no response to either action, they will take it to court and they will force entry after obtaining a warrant of entry from a county court.
Otherwise, people could sit at home, never answer the door, never pay their bills, and just use energy 24/7 and the energy company would have no way to stop it happening. So the law gives them permission to enter and stop the supply by force. That's just the way it is.
Someone above posted about them taking items, this isn't the same. The OP isn't talking about bailiffs.
The best next step is to ring EDF (Not the police as some are suggesting!) and have them explain the situation, explain why this happened, get the background etc etc.. clear up the account confusion. Then, if you wish to double check the laws were followed, ask EDF for a copy of the warrant of entry. That way you can double check the judge did sign it and that no law has been broken. No warrant of entry, no entry. It's that simple.
Talk to EDF. Sending registered letters is one thing but nothing beats actually picking up the phone and speaking to them. It's the quickest way to prevent this sort of action from escalating. Then get them to confirm in writing any changes.
If you want to confirm the legal side for yourself, look here:
Comments
Richmonds should have that information as that is what they need to take to court to get the warrant as well as serve it.
This looks like one of those cases where all they have seen is their fee for doing it. You really need to get in touch with EDF and request copies of all corrispondance they have sent you including any dates they visited.
Also obtain full proof that there isn't any gas being used, this can be done by getting copies of the yearly CORGI inspection sheets.
Are you sure your sister has NO gas? even if she is using very minimal like a hob or something??
I presume the guy came and installed a prepayment meter as i'm aware that is what they do when they get a warrant for entry??
Are you sure she hasn't recieved any bills at all?
I do suggest you phone in and request to talk to somebody superior to find out what exactly has gone on!
So many reminders and red letters are sent before it gets to warrant stage so this does sound very strange!
As for the prepayment meter, i dont think hes even done that, he must have seen the sticker and realised is wrong? Also they are not trained meter people i dont think, so i think they couldnt remove the old one as that would surely have to be some gas engineer?
And yes, im guaranteed shes never had any bills from them. She would have said before now if shes had one as would have contacted edf earlier to say why sending a bill when no gas on
But like I said, I have read online on google that Richmonds are not a nice firm and have chased people who owe no money in the past from what I found once somewhere.
They also stated on another forum in 2006 are meter readers for energy companies and wanted someone to get in touch regarding that, but no one has been to read her meter that she remembers or left a note asking to do it.
This is what their site says about them:
Serivces to the Energy Market - Providers of Debt and Metering Services to the Gas and Electricity Industries.
1) Richmonds are a debt collection agency. EDF will have sent them your account to chase the debt, and once they're unsuccessful in doing so, EDF then tell them to take it to court and get a warrant to access the property and disconnect your gas supply.
These companies can also do other activities such as meter reading.
2) Police are NOT required to enter a property and disconnect a meter in England and Wales.
What you need to do: SPEAK TO EDF!!!!!!! I can't make that any clearer. SPEAK TO EDF.
EDF will then take your details and address the situation. However I must warn you, if they've gone all the way to court and entered your property, they may want to charge you fees for doing so.
Well if that is the case it is a bad idea. The Police should be involved with any forced entry as it helps protect everyone involved.
They're only involved if the situation requires it.. such as a potential breach of the peace or if the people performing the disconnection feel threatened while performing the action. I appreciate it's different in Scotland, you guys have a totally different process for even getting the warrant than in England/Wales.
I know certin areas of England make it compulsary that the police attend as I have done one or two with a friend who works down around Blackpool
I do work for a company who do 30-40 a day so I know what's normal and what isn't.
Not dobuting you just from my experiace working in England in the field of forced entries we had the police with us for all of them.
Just think though that having the Police is a better system as you are protecting everyone involved from any accusations that the tennant may have or from any danger they pose even if they are considered non violent you never know what will happen.
We had one up here a few years ago that was supposed to be easy just a case of slip the lock and in you go well. The door was reinforced and was in no state to be used again after getting in and it wasn't the expected older couple we had to deal with who were supposed to be nice but a bit of a violent younger couple and beind the door the police also found a drug den.
the debt collectors have entered the property to collect on a debt, which they supposedly have a court order for
but they cant remove anything without knowing if it is neccesary for the occupiers use, & without leaving a receipt as to what has been removed
or
they have entered in order to change the meter
but this would involve someone else to actually change the meter, & they would have to leave some sort of notification that this had been done
&
how would the occupier know how to use a prepayment meter without instructions being left
but since we don't have a system to deal with them, we're all pretty much stuck with idiots like them
It sounds like your sister has a gas supplier, and a gas supply, but doesn't use gas.
If EDF have been unable to read the meter, then they will have been estimating a bill.
Your sister sounds like she may have a bit of a head-in-the-sand approach to this, so maybe she has been ignoring her gas bills because she doesn't have gas ? Alternatively, they may just need to do a reading, to verify what she says.
There really is no substitute for just picking up the phone and explaining these things sometimes. You will usually get far further with a bit of two-way conversation rather than anything written.
When a gas company have been able to gain entry to the property, it is usually done after quite some time. Debt process usually takes months and months of letters, phone calls and after that, the details of the debt are transferred to a debt collector agency and the warrant is arranged soon after that. If the tenant has not been in contact, the bailiff, locksmith, and engineer will go out to the property and change the meter into prepayment. They also should leave a notice on the door, telling the person what has been enforced and how to gain information regarding the new meter,i.e. the gas company. They will leave credit on the meter as to not leave the customer without gas or electric.
I'm confused as to what has happened though - it seems as though (as one poster mentioned earlier) that the gas company didn't know that although your sister isn't using gas - housing associations are notorious for NOT telling gas companies information like this - however the gasboard has instead been estimating bills. Unless told otherwise by your sister or yourself, the gasboard would have believed that gas might have been used at the property.
I hope you get some resolution for this - apologies for the long post!
What has taken place is within the law, so why ring the police? You will only be wasting their time.
EDF have exercised their legal right to enter the property, either to check for a gas meter, to fit a pre payment meter or to disconnect the meter.
The power companies have the law on their side in situations like this. If they attempt to contact the property owner over a debt by visiting the property and sending letters, but get no response to either action, they will take it to court and they will force entry after obtaining a warrant of entry from a county court.
Otherwise, people could sit at home, never answer the door, never pay their bills, and just use energy 24/7 and the energy company would have no way to stop it happening. So the law gives them permission to enter and stop the supply by force. That's just the way it is.
Someone above posted about them taking items, this isn't the same. The OP isn't talking about bailiffs.
The best next step is to ring EDF (Not the police as some are suggesting!) and have them explain the situation, explain why this happened, get the background etc etc.. clear up the account confusion. Then, if you wish to double check the laws were followed, ask EDF for a copy of the warrant of entry. That way you can double check the judge did sign it and that no law has been broken. No warrant of entry, no entry. It's that simple.
Talk to EDF. Sending registered letters is one thing but nothing beats actually picking up the phone and speaking to them. It's the quickest way to prevent this sort of action from escalating. Then get them to confirm in writing any changes.
If you want to confirm the legal side for yourself, look here:
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/RevisedStatutes/Acts/ukpga/1954/cukpga_19540021_en_1
Section 2 is the important bit.