Mass immigration has driven down the wages of the poor and put pressure on services

deptfordbakerdeptfordbaker Posts: 22,368
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Mail wrote:

Mass immigration to parts of Britain HAS driven down wages of the poor and put pressure on services, official report finds

*Migration Advisory Committee says parts of the country 'struggling to cope'
*Influx of foreign workers has 'negative impact on the wages of the low paid'
*Government advisors also attack 'feeble' penalties on firms breaking law
*Reveals companies can expect HMRC investigation just once in 250 years
*Employers hit with prosecution for not paying basic wage every million years

Mass immigration from Eastern Europe has driven down wages in parts of Britain and put pressure on essential services, the Government's official advisors have warned.

A new report by the Migration Advisory Committee said some areas of the country are 'struggling to cope' with high levels of immigration that have put pressures on public services like the NHS, schools and transport.

The committee found in some areas of the country where there has been an influx of foreign workers there was a 'negative impact on the wages of the low paid'.

It also attacked the weak 'compliance and enforcement' of the minimum wage - with poor inspections and 'feeble' penalties. The report added: 'An employer can expect a visit from HMRC once every 250 years and a prosecution once in a million years'.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2684410/Rogue-bosses-exploiting-cheap-foreign-workers-face-prosecution-MILLION-years-damning-Home-Office-report-finds.html#ixzz36tL29vRu
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Never mind, the middle class metropolitan liberal elite can afford good nanny's and plumbers and dine at nice ethnic restaurants, surely that's what matters <rollseyes>.

This is so stupid, we don't need mass immigration, we need selective immigration focused on quality over quantity. We can have less migrants and be richer as a nation.

What we need is an immigration system that treats all 183 countries it the world equally, caps the numbers on each and takes the people we need based on their skills, the skills shortage here, the ability of our infrastructure and resources to cope and a greater emphasis on guest workers, (who could pay less tax, send more money home and receive less benefits) and workers whose visas are tied to essential jobs.

Politicians seem to be stuck in a debate between letting none in or letting them all in. Something which is sort of a reality due to our EU membership. There is serious exploitation going on here, which the elite it in this country seem in no hurry to do anything about. It's time people were paid proper wages and the benefits system stopped propping up greedy employers paying low wages.
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Comments

  • skp20040skp20040 Posts: 66,874
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    Whilst in some respects I agree so much immigration has not helped but I also note that many jobs are being done by immigrants as these days so many people do not want to clean, sweep streets, empty the bins etc , they all want to go to uni and get a degree when some in all reality should not and that in itself has cheapened degrees.
  • TheTruth1983TheTruth1983 Posts: 13,462
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    Cronyism, minimum wage laws and the fact that the state is there to pick up the tab drives down wages.
  • paulschapmanpaulschapman Posts: 35,536
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    skp20040 wrote: »
    Whilst in some respects I agree so much immigration has not helped but I also note that many jobs are being done by immigrants as these days so many people do not want to clean, sweep streets, empty the bins etc , they all want to go to uni and get a degree when some in all reality should not and that in itself has cheapened degrees.

    The thing is jobs such as fruit picking were available and such jobs would often pay to do something more enjoyable during the long summer break as a student. These jobs now pay so poorly that only immigrants want to do them at the given rate.

    This is Economics 101, increase the supply (workers) and the cost goes down (wages). If we did not bring in so many immigrants then it follows it would pay better and English born people might want to do them again.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 9,720
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    skp20040 wrote: »
    Whilst in some respects I agree so much immigration has not helped but I also note that many jobs are being done by immigrants as these days so many people do not want to clean, sweep streets, empty the bins etc , they all want to go to uni and get a degree when some in all reality should not and that in itself has cheapened degrees.

    Young people have very little choice over going to university.

    So many parents do not want their children to clean, sweep streets, empty the bins etc.

    They all want their children to go to uni and get a degree.

    The education racket wants everyone to go to uni as they are not allowed to increase tuition fees.

    Employers want people to have a degree for menial jobs like data entry.
  • dosanjh1dosanjh1 Posts: 8,727
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    I'd of thought that minimum wage legislation would have increased wages for the low paid. NMW coincided with mass immigration from Europe by only a few years.

    As for plumbers, it's not just the metropolitan elite that have running water into their houses, down south at least.
  • TheTruth1983TheTruth1983 Posts: 13,462
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    dosanjh1 wrote: »
    I'd of thought that minimum wage legislation would have increased wages for the low paid. NMW coincided with mass immigration from Europe by only a few years.

    As for plumbers, it's not just the metropolitan elite that have running water into their houses, down south at least.

    NMW lowers the wages of people with skill sets just above minimum wage level. It also harms job opportunities for the young and low skilled

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/jobs/8802890/Minimum-wage-harming-job-opportunities-for-young.html
  • AneechikAneechik Posts: 20,208
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    At least they're actually talking about this subject now rather than just denying it is occuring. Whether that translates to action is a completely different subject.
  • koantemplationkoantemplation Posts: 101,293
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    Immigration was actively encouraged by Labour during their time in Government because they used it to keep wages and inflation down.
  • dosanjh1dosanjh1 Posts: 8,727
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    NMW lowers the wages of people with skill sets just above minimum wage level. It also harms job opportunities for the young and low skilled

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/jobs/8802890/Minimum-wage-harming-job-opportunities-for-young.html

    This may be the case but low pay prior to NMW was really low, fruit pickers for example wouldn't of got any where near what the minimum wage is now. The article says immigration had led to wage decreases for the low paid but that's at the same time that legislation was put in for a minimum wage. The two just don't dovetail together, maybe I'll read the report from migration watch later.

    It's true though that its not just the middle class that has plumbing.
  • Ethel_FredEthel_Fred Posts: 34,127
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    Sustained immigration has not harmed Britons' employment, say government advisers
    Sustained immigration over the last 20 years has not harmed British workers’ chances of finding a job and has only had a minimal impact on wage levels, according to government advisers.

    They also concluded that immigration had made little difference to crime, housing, hospitals, schools or welfare payments.

    However, the Migration Advisory Committee (MAC) said the rapid influx of eastern and central European workers over the last decade had left some councils struggling to cope with rapid population changes.

    It said immigration had caused the “composition of many local area populations to alter rapidly” and said such rapid change could provoke friction.

    The MAC concluded there had been a “small negative impact on the wages of the low-paid” in some parts of the country with large numbers of foreign workers.

    But overall it judged that the arrival of migrants had not had a “major impact” on Britons’ pay or prospects of finding a job.
  • ThatJoshThatJosh Posts: 734
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    Immigration was actively encouraged by Labour during their time in Government because they used it to keep wages and inflation down.

    They weren't trying to keep wages down..?
  • MadamfluffMadamfluff Posts: 3,310
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    skp20040 wrote: »
    Whilst in some respects I agree so much immigration has not helped but I also note that many jobs are being done by immigrants as these days so many people do not want to clean, sweep streets, empty the bins etc , they all want to go to uni and get a degree when some in all reality should not and that in itself has cheapened degrees.


    Its strange that here on the Island where we have few immigrants all the jobs you mention are done by Islanders. Whereas when I lived in London immigrants took most of those type of jobs.
  • boddismboddism Posts: 16,436
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    Do you REALLY think wages will go up if we have less new immigrants?? Optimistic is how I view that.
    So much of the indigenous population have a sense of entitlement. Why shouldn't young people do cleaning & factory work & work their way up like they used to?
    And the idea they all youngsters have degrees- of everyone had a degree they'd become meaningless. Just another qualification, not necessarily tailored towards the world of work.
    There's gonna be some class whining going on once people realise Pietr from Poland ain't gonna be doing the shitty jobs anymore.
  • HowardessexHowardessex Posts: 2,072
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    I cannot think of how I personally have benefitted from mass immigration , not one thing , but I can think of dozens of negatives that have affected me directly, .
  • Speak-SoftlySpeak-Softly Posts: 24,737
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    Madamfluff wrote: »
    Its strange that here on the Island where we have few immigrants all the jobs you mention are done by Islanders. Whereas when I lived in London immigrants took most of those type of jobs.

    Same in my area.

    As you mention London with it's large immigrant ratio, perhaps it's previous immigrants or their children who won't take the jobs?
    How is there an unemployment rate of 50% young black men in places like London?
  • gummy mummygummy mummy Posts: 26,600
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    IMO it's Governments providing employers with workers that's driven down wages, employees know that if they complain or refuse to work they can easily be replaced by someone on JSA.
  • mickmarsmickmars Posts: 7,438
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    Perhaps another reason that unskilled immigrants take road sweeping /bin emptying jobs is that the councils don't replace properly trained workers earning a proper wage when they retire/leave etc,they just replace them with agency staff on minimum wage.
    It's something the so called "Labour unions" have done absolutely nothing to stop
    I've seen it first hand.
  • MajlisMajlis Posts: 31,362
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    I cannot think of how I personally have benefitted from mass immigration , not one thing , but I can think of dozens of negatives that have affected me directly, .

    I have (and do benefit) - mass immigration has kept the cost of service jobs in London down so I have a lot more choice of coffee bars and restaurants etc. It makes hotels cost less than they would otherwise, tradesmen are cheaper, home help is cheaper - anyone who utilises service sector industry has benefited in fact.

    I'm not saying that the decision to also mass immigration was correct, but it has certainly benefited many in the population.
  • crystalladcrystallad Posts: 3,744
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    Its not all about wages and money its about the country we live in! We are crammed full. Bulge classes, struggling hospitals and lack of houses just to mention a few.

    The truth is there are loads of jobs available but our benefits system makes it pointless to work in many cases(just have a baby)

    All I want is this country to stop taking new migrants NOW. Deal and absorb what we have!
  • dosanjh1dosanjh1 Posts: 8,727
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    I cannot think of how I personally have benefitted from mass immigration , not one thing , but I can think of dozens of negatives that have affected me directly, .

    Do you eat food? If you eat food theirs a good chance an immigrant was employed somewhere along the process to get that food to you at a direct financial saving to yourself.

    If you drive a car the chances are the service station is staffed by an immigrant keeping the cost of your petrol down.

    If you work there's a good chance an immigrant is used to clean your office / workplace meaning keeping costs of your employer down meaning they can pay you something.

    Do you like to walk? Lots of immigrants are used as parking enforcement officers ensuring you can walk easier and safely. And providing a cheaper public service keeping your taxes down.

    There are so many ways that you personally have benefited from immigration.
  • crystalladcrystallad Posts: 3,744
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    Thats tosh! If everything gets more expensive then wages have to follow or no one will do the work! Also there are dozens of petrol stations ,supermarkets all competing for the same business driving prices down to the happy medium!!

    After all that people have to pay for higher rent and houses forced up by higher population so what was the point in cheap labour in the first place?

    Then you have minimum wage tax income which doesn't pay for the services available. Schools.hospitals and infrastructure. And No its not right to just tax the rich!
  • dosanjh1dosanjh1 Posts: 8,727
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    mickmars wrote: »
    Perhaps another reason that unskilled immigrants take road sweeping /bin emptying jobs is that the councils don't replace properly trained workers earning a proper wage when they retire/leave etc,they just replace them with agency staff on minimum wage.
    It's something the so called "Labour unions" have done absolutely nothing to stop
    I've seen it first hand.

    These services are normally provided by private companies and I seem to recall councils and unions opposed to Compulsory Competitive Tendering when it was forced upon them.
  • tim59tim59 Posts: 47,188
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    crystallad wrote: »
    Its not all about wages and money its about the country we live in! We are crammed full. Bulge classes, struggling hospitals and lack of houses just to mention a few.

    The truth is there are loads of jobs available but our benefits system makes it pointless to work in many cases(just have a baby)

    All I want is this country to stop taking new migrants NOW. Deal and absorb what we have!

    Here is another pratice that does not help the unemployed in the uk, and was brought up at last weeks PMQT. Q11. [904598] Susan Elan Jones (Clwyd South) (Lab): Will the Prime Minister make it illegal for recruitment agencies to advertise overseas for jobs in this country, unless they advertise them locally, too—yes or no?

    2 July 2014 : Column 890

    The Prime Minister: The short answer is yes. That is exactly what we are doing—saying that employment agencies cannot do that; they cannot purely advertise jobs abroad, and we are doing everything we can to stop that.
  • dosanjh1dosanjh1 Posts: 8,727
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    crystallad wrote: »
    Thats tosh! If everything gets more expensive then wages have to follow or no one will do the work! Also there are dozens of petrol stations ,supermarkets all competing for the same business driving prices down to the happy medium!!

    After all that people have to pay for higher rent and houses forced up by higher population so what was the point in cheap labour in the first place?

    Then you have minimum wage tax income which doesn't pay for the services available. Schools.hospitals and infrastructure. And No its not right to just tax the rich!

    The cost of goods and services are reflected in the prices you pay - simple economics, if you can't comprehend that it's not my problem.

    Edit: same goes for higher rents, the cost of providing that property to you is reflected by a few variables but in particular the cost, in this case a mortgage
  • mickmarsmickmars Posts: 7,438
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    dosanjh1 wrote: »
    These services are normally provided by private companies and I seem to recall councils and unions opposed to Compulsory Competitive Tendering when it was forced upon them.

    And yet they keep tolerating it,and have been for at least 20 years.
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