yeah I think sam C would need to have the looks of Adonis, the dancing skills of barishnikov and the stage presence of Freddie mercury to make up for his voice
well look at Alex and Sierra on the US X-Factor. They have good voices sometimes, their youtube videos are much better than the live X-Factor shows, but they do have something the American audience is buying into, albeit hyped up, but I like them too and you want to root for them to do well, so it's not all about the voice
there's a difference between it being "all about the voice" and the voice being a highly important factor amongst others.
the point is to find someone who has all of those distinctive stand out qualities on top of having a good singing voice. if you can't sing as the most basline of requirements, you shouldn't be there.
yeah I think sam C would need to have the looks of Adonis, the dancing skills of barishnikov and the stage presence of Freddie mercury to make up for his voice
He's got all these qualities, he just cant find them.
there's a difference between it being "all about the voice" and the voice being a highly important factor amongst others.
the point is to find someone who has all of those distinctive stand out qualities on top of having a good singing voice. if you can't sing as the most basline of requirements, you shouldn't be there.
well I was making a comparison on the US show whereby an act who do not have the best voices are doing very well because they appear to bring something different.
The assumption that all acts need to have big voices (an American Idol example: I'd pick the vocally limited Phillip Phillips over the stronger vocalist Jessica Sanchez if only because the latter has a tendency to be empty in the emotions department) is a pile of shit because it does not reflect the realities of the music industry, the industry these acts will go to if they make it far enough into the show and gain enough momentum. We have seen stars come out of people who have less (vocally or otherwise) than those the acts on the show have. It's like expecting beauty pageant contestants to answer the Q&A questions properly or expecting fashion designers to know how certain fabrics are made. Singing well and in tune alone just doesn't cut it.
Of course, those with more of the desired qualities have a better chance but at the end of the day, it's all about chance (and don't get that twisted).
Sam B has a voice so outstanding that she can get by with passable stage skills.
HAnnah in time could, too.
Tamera has a lovely voice .Maybe not outstanding, but she has a somewhat rare standard of combination of charisma/stage presence/beauty/vocal ability.
As for those with not-so-amazing voices:
Luke, for example, technically hasn't got a great voice, but his voice is good enough to be widely appreciated and it is unique. Paired with his stage presence and charisma, he could go far.
Abi and Sam C are not in that league. Yes, they both have talent. Yes, they both obviously worked to be their best. Unfortunately, there are so many out there with comparable levels of songwriting ability,passion for music,performance skills, and most have voices as good(since theirs are average and limited), while many are somewhat to much better vocally, and there are so many competing for attention support and gigs that they will struggle.
While it isn't all about the voice, unless you are amazing in every other way , you need to be at least unique and better vocally than average to really have a shot.
I don't understand the common opinion that people with 'better' voices like Sam B and Nicholas are treated as if they are more talented than others because of they're vocal ability.
I'm aware that Luke, Abi and Sam C are songwriters and play instruments (not sure about the other contestants) should't we be encouraging people with this talent to be on the X Factor rather than someone who can just sing well.
Let me give you an example. Lucy Spraggan didn't have the best voice but her talented songwriting etc is what has made her quite successful.
Surely someone putting their heart and soul into a song means more than someone who just sings a song really well without any emotion *cough* Tamera *cough*
It's not necessarily a case of the 'best' voices, it's a question of 'whose records will you buy, whose concerts would you go to?' Personally, I would love to see Hannah in a concert, but many wouldn't. I'd also pay to see Lucy, but again, I'm probably in a minority. Tamera will fill stadiums, I don't think Sam or Nicholas will, as technically good as they are.
It's not a question of who 'deserves' it, whether that is judges by musicianship, hard work, originality or natural talent. It's a question of who will sell.
I find it funny how Gary always goes on about Sam C not having a good singing voice but being a performer. Robbie Williams was not a good singer but a great performer yet managed to become a much more successful solo artist than Gary, who only gained back his fame once Take That reformed. Sometimes it's not the good-voice-bland-persona people want but someone who makes the song enjoyable and can sing songs written to their music style.
Sam is not the best constant vocally, but when given songs that suit him, he sings them really well and actually performs them better than expected.
My three favourites this year are Rough Copy, Luke and Sam C - and all are because of their performances as well as vocals. Hannah, Tamera and Sam B are amazing singers, but to me they are boring as well. I like Nicholas, but I find Louis is trying to make him too similar to Joe McElderry and Michael Buble when I'd prefer it if he was more Olly Murs or Jason Mraz.
I find it funny how Gary always goes on about Sam C not having a good singing voice but being a performer. Robbie Williams was not a good singer but a great performer yet managed to become a much more successful solo artist than Gary, who only gained back his fame once Take That reformed. Sometimes it's not the good-voice-bland-persona people want but someone who makes the song enjoyable and can sing songs written to their music style.
Sam is not the best constant vocally, but when given songs that suit him, he sings them really well and actually performs them better than expected.
My three favourites this year are Rough Copy, Luke and Sam C - and all are because of their performances as well as vocals. Hannah, Tamera and Sam B are amazing singers, but to me they are boring as well. I like Nicholas, but I find Louis is trying to make him too similar to Joe McElderry and Michael Buble when I'd prefer it if he was more Olly Murs or Jason Mraz.
Robbie is not the world's best singer but his voice is distinctive and he manages to convey character in his vocal. Even though Gary was the lead vocal and all the boys were very popular in Take That, Robbie still managed to stand out. Sam C has very ordinary vocal sound and, although capable of being entertaining, IMO would be better off as part of a boy band.
Robbie is not the world's best singer but his voice is distinctive and he manages to convey character in his vocal. Even though Gary was the lead vocal and all the boys were very popular in Take That, Robbie still managed to stand out. Sam C has very ordinary vocal sound and, although capable of being entertaining, IMO would be better off as part of a boy band.
Funny enough when I first heard him audition I thought he'd be one of the ones to end up in the 'x-factor made groups' they tend to do every year now.
To me though I can hear something good in his voice, not great, but something that means I would buy his music if he released it. But I still think he is capable of being a good singer producing great songs under the right management etc. Don't forget Robbie was what.. 16 when started and what... 23(?) when he left.
Now I'm not comparing Sam C's vocal talent or personality with Robbies. I'm just saying that Gary seems to forget that his stronger vocals and singing ability once 'lost' to someone of a weaker vocal skill but better performer (Robbie). Perhaps he shouldn't be so harsh on Sam and accept that some people like Sam, weak vocals or not. Same as Rylan last year - one of the worst singers in the X-Factor, but people liked him and voted for him despite that. Either to wind Gary up or because he was enjoyable to watch. Whether it's good or bad; Rylan seems to have gone on to do a lot more now in terms of 'celeb status' than anyone from last year.
Funny enough when I first heard him audition I thought he'd be one of the ones to end up in the 'x-factor made groups' they tend to do every year now.
To me though I can hear something good in his voice, not great, but something that means I would buy his music if he released it. But I still think he is capable of being a good singer producing great songs under the right management etc. Don't forget Robbie was what.. 16 when started and what... 23(?) when he left.
Now I'm not comparing Sam C's vocal talent or personality with Robbies. I'm just saying that Gary seems to forget that his stronger vocals and singing ability once 'lost' to someone of a weaker vocal skill but better performer (Robbie). Perhaps he shouldn't be so harsh on Sam and accept that some people like Sam, weak vocals or not. Same as Rylan last year - one of the worst singers in the X-Factor, but people liked him and voted for him despite that. Either to wind Gary up or because he was enjoyable to watch. Whether it's good or bad; Rylan seems to have gone on to do a lot more now in terms of 'celeb status' than anyone from last year.
- Sorry for long comment -
Fair enough. Gary did just about say "Well done Sam, you made it to the stage and did not fall over!"
I am not sure his opinion of Robbie was much higher through Gary's darker years!
Fair enough. Gary did just about say "Well done Sam, you made it to the stage and did not fall over!"
I am not sure his opinion of Robbie was much higher through Gary's darker years!
I'm probably biased myself since I have never been a Gary fan. I never liked Take That and only like Robbie because my parents played his songs all the time growing up. Being in my early 20's as well I'm too young to remember Take That the first time round... All I do know is that I now I am older I do prefer Robbie's voice and music to Take That and anything the other members have produced. I even prefer Mark Owen to Gary - with Shine being the only Take That song I actually like.
My point is though that perhaps both me and Gary have it wrong on what qualifies as good music, perhaps we all have since music taste is subjective to interpretation and opinion. It's not something the whole world can agree on. Those who like One Direction, Miley and Beiber are enough proof of that.
Sam's vocal problem lies heavily on his very limited range and tendency to sing with his throat. His tone is good and with the right songs, people will love it.
That said, Robbie had a wider range (than Sam) afaik and had the "bad boy" thing going, which overshadowed Gary's songwriting and better vocal and made Gazza hate him for years. Maybe Gary hates Sam because he sees a bit of a plain vanilla (although he's orange ) Robbie in him and doesn't think the likes of him should break out into a solo career?
Sam's vocal problem lies heavily on his very limited range and tendency to sing with his throat. His tone is good and with the right songs, people will love it.
That said, Robbie had a wider range afaik and had the "bad boy" thing going, which overshadowed Gary's songwriting and better vocal and made Gazza hate him for years. Maybe Gary hates Sam because he sees a bit of a plain vanilla (although he's orange ) Robbie in him and doesn't think the likes of him should break out into a solo career?
I agree, there are many successful artists though who stick to that limited vocal range - Snow Patrol for example. Same as Ed Sheeran, Lily Allen and Linkin Park. All great artists, but stick to similar song styles and don't go too far off that path.
I also agree with your thoughts on why Gary might not like Sam. I find it weird how last year and a few times before they normally mentioned the fact Robbie was not a great singer but a good performer but not so much this year. They seem to only want to use a backhanded compliment (kinda) when it works to their favour.
robbie had bags of charisma though. even in a group with 5 very popular individuals he still stood out. his personality - love it or hate it - is lightning in a bottle. and while he's never been an outstanding vocalist and age + poor lifestyle have had a detrimental effect, he was fairly good in his younger years and had a very good range on him. i've never been a particular fan of robbie's, but sam is nowhere near his league on any count....his vocals are poor, his voice bland and he's one-of-the-crowd. even louis says sam would be more suited to a boyband. robbie was the oppisite - his globally successful boyband couldn't contain him.
i do not see a favourable comparison between these two.
I agree, there are many successful artists though who stick to that limited vocal range - Snow Patrol for example. Same as Ed Sheeran, Lily Allen and Linkin Park. All great artists, but stick to similar song styles and don't go too far off that path.
I also agree with your thoughts on why Gary might not like Sam. I find it weird how last year and a few times before they normally mentioned the fact Robbie was not a great singer but a good performer but not so much this year. They seem to only want to use a backhanded compliment (kinda) when it works to their favour.
It doesn't help that Robbie, Sam C's idol, is said to back Sam B to win it all. Recall that Robbie has been made to duet with Olly and 1D in the final, two success stories from acts that aren't there for their strong voices; backing a strong voice this time around is practically a deramping technique.
robbie had bags of charisma though. even in a group with 5 very popular individuals he still stood out. his personality - love it or hate it - is lightning in a bottle. and while he's never been an outstanding vocalist and age + poor lifestyle have had a detrimental effect, he was fairly good in his younger years and had a very good range on him. i've never been a particular fan of robbie's, but sam is nowhere near his league on any count....his vocals are poor, his voice bland and he's one-of-the-crowd. even louis says sam would be more suited to a boyband. robbie was the oppisite - his globally successful boyband couldn't contain him.
i do not see a favourable comparison between these two.
Comparison isn't the point; in fact, their stage personas are very different. The point is that people who don't have the best voices can succeed; the precedent has been set and there's little reason to think that Sam's voice is a red flag for him.
Also, remember when people in DS called One Direction bland as hell (One Dimension, anyone?)?
robbie had bags of charisma though. even in a group with 5 very popular individuals he still stood out. his personality - love it or hate it - is lightning in a bottle. and while he's never been an outstanding vocalist and age + poor lifestyle have had a detrimental effect, he was fairly good in his younger years and had a very good range on him. i've never been a particular fan of robbie's, but sam is nowhere near his league on any count....his vocals are poor, his voice bland and he's one-of-the-crowd. even louis says sam would be more suited to a boyband. robbie was the oppisite - his globally successful boyband couldn't contain him.
i do not see a favourable comparison between these two.
As I said above.. I am not comparing the two on vocal ability or charisma. I'm talking about the fact that Gary seems to be forgetting that in the music industry it's not always about having a good voice. Sometimes its about more than that, it's about the person or the audience.
Bob Dylan for example - if he was in the X-Factor today I honestly doubt he'd get far. He is one of my favourite musicians, but not because of his vocal skills. Bob Dylan became successful because he sang songs which were needed at the time - songs against the war, about loving each other in that free loving way and about drugs, poverty, government etc. With the right material and audience any singer can be successful.
My point was for the Robbie/Sam comment is that Gary can keep mentioning Sams weak vocals, but as Robbie proves - you don't always need to be the best singer to be successful in the music industry.
It doesn't help that Robbie, Sam C's idol, is said to back Sam B to win it all. Recall that Robbie has been made to duet with Olly and 1D in the final, two success stories from acts that aren't there for their strong voices; backing a strong voice this time around is practically a deramping technique.
Yeah I noticed that. I also recall Robbie messing up his own lines when he sang with Olly. That's kind of my point as well though - even the most successful singers sometimes aren't the best live. Robbie sounded awful to me on Saturday but I like that song when I listen to it on youtube. Same as Katy Perry when she sang - she sounded awful to me but she is one of my favourite singers at the moment. Sam might not sound great live but inside a studio there might be something worth buying.
Comparison isn't the point; in fact, their stage personas are very different. The point is that people who don't have the best voices can succeed; the precedent has been set and there's little reason to think that Sam's voice is a red flag for him.
Also, remember when people in DS called One Direction bland as hell (One Dimension, anyone?)?
As I said above.. I am not comparing the two on vocal ability or charisma. I'm talking about the fact that Gary seems to be forgetting that in the music industry it's not always about have a good voice. Sometimes its about more than that, it's about the person or the audience.
Bob Dylan for example - if he was in the X-Factor today I honestly doubt he'd get far. He is one of my favourite musicians, but not because of his vocal skills. Bob Dylan became successful because he sang songs which were needed at the time - songs against the war, about loving each other in that free loving way and about drugs, poverty, government etc. With the right material and audience any singer can be successful.
My point was for the Robbie/Sam comment is that Gary can keep mentioning Sams weak vocals, but as Robbie proves - you don't always need to be the best singer to be successful in the music industry.
i get what you're both saying and i agree with it for the realities of the modern day music industry - but my point is that sam c doesn't have enough charisma by any stretch of the imagination to make up for his weak vocals...he's just a normal bloke really...and that he has actually entered a nationally televised live singing contest.
you most definitely need all of those extras of of stage presence and charisma etc, but if you're going to enter a competition in which you sing live every week, then you also need the foundation of having a decent voice - whatever your style may be. look at luke. he's not by any means a big technically perfect powerhouse ballad singer, but his voice has a lovely tone and quality to it that sets him apart and makes him pretty good to listen to - perhaps not to everyone, but enough. and he also has a stage presence that makes him a good performer and enjoyable to watch.
sam's voice is both bland and extremely limited, and his personality that of a standard teenage boy. nothing stand out about him at all.
like i said before, he might have a chance of success were he in a boyband (ala one direction) - he is very good looking to the core boyband demographic of teenyboppers. but as a solo artist? nope. he just doesn't have it.
p.s. i doubt bob dylan would ever step foot near the x factor. it's not what he's about or the type of artist he is. it's superficial drivel for the masses. the thought of it would probably have made an artist like bob dylan sick...
i get what you're both saying and i agree with it for the realities of the modern day music industry - but my point is that sam c doesn't have enough charisma by any stretch of the imagination to make up for his weak vocals...he's just a normal bloke really...and that he has actually entered a nationally televised live singing contest.
you most definitely need all of those extras of of stage presence and charisma etc, but if you're going to enter a competition in which you sing live every week, then you also need the foundation of having a decent voice - whatever your style may be. look at luke. he's not by any means a big technically perfect powerhouse ballad singer, but his voice has a lovely tone and quality to it that sets him apart and makes him pretty good to listen to - perhaps not to everyone, but enough. and he also has a stage presence that makes him a good performer and enjoyable to watch.
sam's voice is both bland and extremely limited, and his personality that of a standard teenage boy. nothing stand out about him at all.
like i said before, he might have a chance of success were he in a boyband (ala one direction) - he is very good looking to the core boyband demographic of teenyboppers. but as a solo artist? nope. he just doesn't have it.
p.s. i doubt bob dylan would ever step foot near the x factor. it's not what he's about or the type of artist he is. it's superficial drivel for the masses. the thought of it would probably have made an artist like bob dylan sick...
To me there is something 'stand out' about him though. Both him and Luke are in my top 3. I liked Sam since his audition and I liked Luke since the live shows. In every X-Factor I have seemed to like the underrated ones though who managed to get further than expected. Perhaps what you hear as 'bland' is not what I think of as bland. Doesn't mean either of us are wrong, just that our tastes are different.
P.S The Bob Dylan comment was merely based on the fact that in todays music industry he'd be nowhere as successful in terms of chart topping as he was back then considering what is mainstream at the moment. I could have used The Beatles (who did used to try out for talent shows) as an example too... but being a fan of Bob Dylan I thought of him first.
To me there is something 'stand out' about him though. Both him and Luke are in my top 3. I liked Sam since his audition and I liked Luke since the live shows. In every X-Factor I have seemed to like the underrated ones though who managed to get further than expected. Perhaps what you hear as 'bland' is not what I think of as bland. Doesn't mean either of us are wrong, just that our tastes are different.
P.S The Bob Dylan comment was merely based on the fact that in todays music industry he'd be nowhere as successful in terms of chart topping as he was back then considering what is mainstream at the moment. I could have used The Beatles (who did used to try out for talent shows) as an example too... but being a fan of Bob Dylan I thought of him first.
fair enough. i've known a 1000 teenagers exactly like him though. i think he's confidant, but he doesn't have any shizazz or pop to him like, if i were to use my own example of an x factor contestant who instantly stood out to me, olly murrs did and does. he was an eg of a contestant who quite obviously had bags upon bags of sparkling charisma. i still remember every moment of his first audition to this day without even having to look it up (i remember none of sam's at all tbh). and i always thought that olly had a distinctive tone to his voice that made sure you knew who it was when he sang - same as robbie or cheryl. as much as people will always hate the pair of them, they each have recognisable voices. i don't think any of this year's bunch do really. luke's comes closest, but sam's is the definition of "generic". and if you were to put in amungst a group of boys the same age, i coulddn't pick him out from the crowd.
the advent of auto-tuning and studio tricks has hugely changed the music industry, true....but you still need to stand out if you're going to get anywhere. it's why the hot trend of what to do now to sell records is shock tactics - miley, rhianna, lady gaga, katey perri...they all rely heavily on this. back in the day, it was more about talent than celebrity, but you still needed to stand out from the crowd, which both bob dylan and the beatles did, both vocally and stylistically. both acts also happen to have been hugely influencial songwriters who's inventive styles and studio techniques revolutionised the entirety of the music industry for future generations.
Bob Dylan was a genius lyricist and great songwriter, with a killer ability to deliver and emote. His voice was the stuff of nightmares , though. He was a perfect example of being so great in other ways that it wouldn't matter, and there are some artists popular recently who are similarly vocally handicapped.:eek::p
None of this years contestants come close to Dylan , but,then, how many do?Most of us who write and perform can only dream of being so brilliant in the songwriting department.
I don't understand the common opinion that people with 'better' voices like Sam B and Nicholas are treated as if they are more talented than others because of they're vocal ability.
I'm aware that Luke, Abi and Sam C are songwriters and play instruments (not sure about the other contestants) should't we be encouraging people with this talent to be on the X Factor rather than someone who can just sing well.
Let me give you an example. Lucy Spraggan didn't have the best voice but her talented songwriting etc is what has made her quite successful.
Surely someone putting their heart and soul into a song means more than someone who just sings a song really well without any emotion *cough* Tamera *cough*
There should be a limit, though. Whilst Sam B, Nicholas, Tamera and Hannah are all great singers, it actually seems slightly embarrassing that Abi, Luke and Sam C are on the same show as them - at least Luke can sing in tune, the other 2 cannot.
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In her defence she was pretty good in her auditions but by bootcamp she was just boring.
there's a difference between it being "all about the voice" and the voice being a highly important factor amongst others.
the point is to find someone who has all of those distinctive stand out qualities on top of having a good singing voice. if you can't sing as the most basline of requirements, you shouldn't be there.
He's got all these qualities, he just cant find them.
well I was making a comparison on the US show whereby an act who do not have the best voices are doing very well because they appear to bring something different.
back to our show, I don't know that anyone is
Of course, those with more of the desired qualities have a better chance but at the end of the day, it's all about chance (and don't get that twisted).
Sam B has a voice so outstanding that she can get by with passable stage skills.
HAnnah in time could, too.
Tamera has a lovely voice .Maybe not outstanding, but she has a somewhat rare standard of combination of charisma/stage presence/beauty/vocal ability.
As for those with not-so-amazing voices:
Luke, for example, technically hasn't got a great voice, but his voice is good enough to be widely appreciated and it is unique. Paired with his stage presence and charisma, he could go far.
Abi and Sam C are not in that league. Yes, they both have talent. Yes, they both obviously worked to be their best. Unfortunately, there are so many out there with comparable levels of songwriting ability,passion for music,performance skills, and most have voices as good(since theirs are average and limited), while many are somewhat to much better vocally, and there are so many competing for attention support and gigs that they will struggle.
While it isn't all about the voice, unless you are amazing in every other way , you need to be at least unique and better vocally than average to really have a shot.
It's not a question of who 'deserves' it, whether that is judges by musicianship, hard work, originality or natural talent. It's a question of who will sell.
Sam is not the best constant vocally, but when given songs that suit him, he sings them really well and actually performs them better than expected.
My three favourites this year are Rough Copy, Luke and Sam C - and all are because of their performances as well as vocals. Hannah, Tamera and Sam B are amazing singers, but to me they are boring as well. I like Nicholas, but I find Louis is trying to make him too similar to Joe McElderry and Michael Buble when I'd prefer it if he was more Olly Murs or Jason Mraz.
Robbie is not the world's best singer but his voice is distinctive and he manages to convey character in his vocal. Even though Gary was the lead vocal and all the boys were very popular in Take That, Robbie still managed to stand out. Sam C has very ordinary vocal sound and, although capable of being entertaining, IMO would be better off as part of a boy band.
Funny enough when I first heard him audition I thought he'd be one of the ones to end up in the 'x-factor made groups' they tend to do every year now.
To me though I can hear something good in his voice, not great, but something that means I would buy his music if he released it. But I still think he is capable of being a good singer producing great songs under the right management etc. Don't forget Robbie was what.. 16 when started and what... 23(?) when he left.
Now I'm not comparing Sam C's vocal talent or personality with Robbies. I'm just saying that Gary seems to forget that his stronger vocals and singing ability once 'lost' to someone of a weaker vocal skill but better performer (Robbie). Perhaps he shouldn't be so harsh on Sam and accept that some people like Sam, weak vocals or not. Same as Rylan last year - one of the worst singers in the X-Factor, but people liked him and voted for him despite that. Either to wind Gary up or because he was enjoyable to watch. Whether it's good or bad; Rylan seems to have gone on to do a lot more now in terms of 'celeb status' than anyone from last year.
- Sorry for long comment -
Fair enough. Gary did just about say "Well done Sam, you made it to the stage and did not fall over!"
I am not sure his opinion of Robbie was much higher through Gary's darker years!
I'm probably biased myself since I have never been a Gary fan. I never liked Take That and only like Robbie because my parents played his songs all the time growing up. Being in my early 20's as well I'm too young to remember Take That the first time round... All I do know is that I now I am older I do prefer Robbie's voice and music to Take That and anything the other members have produced. I even prefer Mark Owen to Gary - with Shine being the only Take That song I actually like.
My point is though that perhaps both me and Gary have it wrong on what qualifies as good music, perhaps we all have since music taste is subjective to interpretation and opinion. It's not something the whole world can agree on. Those who like One Direction, Miley and Beiber are enough proof of that.
That said, Robbie had a wider range (than Sam) afaik and had the "bad boy" thing going, which overshadowed Gary's songwriting and better vocal and made Gazza hate him for years. Maybe Gary hates Sam because he sees a bit of a plain vanilla (although he's orange
I agree, there are many successful artists though who stick to that limited vocal range - Snow Patrol for example. Same as Ed Sheeran, Lily Allen and Linkin Park. All great artists, but stick to similar song styles and don't go too far off that path.
I also agree with your thoughts on why Gary might not like Sam. I find it weird how last year and a few times before they normally mentioned the fact Robbie was not a great singer but a good performer but not so much this year. They seem to only want to use a backhanded compliment (kinda) when it works to their favour.
i do not see a favourable comparison between these two.
It doesn't help that Robbie, Sam C's idol, is said to back Sam B to win it all. Recall that Robbie has been made to duet with Olly and 1D in the final, two success stories from acts that aren't there for their strong voices; backing a strong voice this time around is practically a deramping technique.
Comparison isn't the point; in fact, their stage personas are very different. The point is that people who don't have the best voices can succeed; the precedent has been set and there's little reason to think that Sam's voice is a red flag for him.
Also, remember when people in DS called One Direction bland as hell (One Dimension, anyone?)?
As I said above.. I am not comparing the two on vocal ability or charisma. I'm talking about the fact that Gary seems to be forgetting that in the music industry it's not always about having a good voice. Sometimes its about more than that, it's about the person or the audience.
Bob Dylan for example - if he was in the X-Factor today I honestly doubt he'd get far. He is one of my favourite musicians, but not because of his vocal skills. Bob Dylan became successful because he sang songs which were needed at the time - songs against the war, about loving each other in that free loving way and about drugs, poverty, government etc. With the right material and audience any singer can be successful.
My point was for the Robbie/Sam comment is that Gary can keep mentioning Sams weak vocals, but as Robbie proves - you don't always need to be the best singer to be successful in the music industry.
Yeah I noticed that. I also recall Robbie messing up his own lines when he sang with Olly. That's kind of my point as well though - even the most successful singers sometimes aren't the best live. Robbie sounded awful to me on Saturday but I like that song when I listen to it on youtube. Same as Katy Perry when she sang - she sounded awful to me but she is one of my favourite singers at the moment. Sam might not sound great live but inside a studio there might be something worth buying.
i get what you're both saying and i agree with it for the realities of the modern day music industry - but my point is that sam c doesn't have enough charisma by any stretch of the imagination to make up for his weak vocals...he's just a normal bloke really...and that he has actually entered a nationally televised live singing contest.
you most definitely need all of those extras of of stage presence and charisma etc, but if you're going to enter a competition in which you sing live every week, then you also need the foundation of having a decent voice - whatever your style may be. look at luke. he's not by any means a big technically perfect powerhouse ballad singer, but his voice has a lovely tone and quality to it that sets him apart and makes him pretty good to listen to - perhaps not to everyone, but enough. and he also has a stage presence that makes him a good performer and enjoyable to watch.
sam's voice is both bland and extremely limited, and his personality that of a standard teenage boy. nothing stand out about him at all.
like i said before, he might have a chance of success were he in a boyband (ala one direction) - he is very good looking to the core boyband demographic of teenyboppers. but as a solo artist? nope. he just doesn't have it.
p.s. i doubt bob dylan would ever step foot near the x factor. it's not what he's about or the type of artist he is. it's superficial drivel for the masses. the thought of it would probably have made an artist like bob dylan sick...
To me there is something 'stand out' about him though. Both him and Luke are in my top 3. I liked Sam since his audition and I liked Luke since the live shows. In every X-Factor I have seemed to like the underrated ones though who managed to get further than expected. Perhaps what you hear as 'bland' is not what I think of as bland. Doesn't mean either of us are wrong, just that our tastes are different.
P.S The Bob Dylan comment was merely based on the fact that in todays music industry he'd be nowhere as successful in terms of chart topping as he was back then considering what is mainstream at the moment. I could have used The Beatles (who did used to try out for talent shows) as an example too... but being a fan of Bob Dylan I thought of him first.
fair enough. i've known a 1000 teenagers exactly like him though. i think he's confidant, but he doesn't have any shizazz or pop to him like, if i were to use my own example of an x factor contestant who instantly stood out to me, olly murrs did and does. he was an eg of a contestant who quite obviously had bags upon bags of sparkling charisma. i still remember every moment of his first audition to this day without even having to look it up (i remember none of sam's at all tbh). and i always thought that olly had a distinctive tone to his voice that made sure you knew who it was when he sang - same as robbie or cheryl. as much as people will always hate the pair of them, they each have recognisable voices. i don't think any of this year's bunch do really. luke's comes closest, but sam's is the definition of "generic". and if you were to put in amungst a group of boys the same age, i coulddn't pick him out from the crowd.
the advent of auto-tuning and studio tricks has hugely changed the music industry, true....but you still need to stand out if you're going to get anywhere. it's why the hot trend of what to do now to sell records is shock tactics - miley, rhianna, lady gaga, katey perri...they all rely heavily on this. back in the day, it was more about talent than celebrity, but you still needed to stand out from the crowd, which both bob dylan and the beatles did, both vocally and stylistically. both acts also happen to have been hugely influencial songwriters who's inventive styles and studio techniques revolutionised the entirety of the music industry for future generations.
None of this years contestants come close to Dylan , but,then, how many do?Most of us who write and perform can only dream of being so brilliant in the songwriting department.
There should be a limit, though. Whilst Sam B, Nicholas, Tamera and Hannah are all great singers, it actually seems slightly embarrassing that Abi, Luke and Sam C are on the same show as them - at least Luke can sing in tune, the other 2 cannot.