BlackBerry Z10 first impressions

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  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 1
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    s7uar7 wrote: »
    I used to use a Blackberry on a BIS plan with Vodafone but gave it up in favour of an Nexus 4 for two reasons:

    1) I was fed up with paying the £5/month Blackberry tax for a service that I didn't need.
    2) The exchange rate used in the BB app store was £1 = $1. Although we're not talking a huge amount of money on a $1 app it just came across that RIM were taking the mick.

    I understand that 1 has been changed with BB10 and there's now no need for a seperate BIS plan, but I'm interested to hear whether they've fixed the exchange rates in the app store.
    Your number 2 issue has been fixed already. Proper exchange rate is applied now.
  • Big PoyBig Poy Posts: 7,420
    Forum Member
    I did wonder if swordman would come back on and post links from recent news like he has done, for some reason he was quiet yesterday.

    Whats App here:

    http://www.engadget.com/2013/03/13/whatsapp-lands-on-blackberry-10-offers-z10-owners-a-bbm-alterna/

    Largest single purchase:

    http://www.zdnet.com/unnamed-blackberry-partner-purchases-1-million-blackberry-10-devices-7000012572/

    Awarded for its design quality:

    http://crackberry.com/blackberry-z10-scores-red-dot-award-product-design-2013

    Positive sales info:

    http://crackberry.com/supply-chain-checks-tell-bluefin-blackberry-z10-fire

    http://blogs.barrons.com/techtraderdaily/2013/03/13/this-morning-emc-ponders-pivotal-offering-bbry-aggressive-component-orders/

    Shares on the way up(although stock is volatile so doesn't mean too much)

    http://www.valuewalk.com/2013/03/research-in-motion-ltd-bbry-shares-jumps-on-news-of-1m-unit-purchase/



    Anyway seems like it was a decent day for BBRY yesterday, always makes for a quiet thread!
  • swordmanswordman Posts: 6,679
    Forum Member
    And your point being what exactly? Does any of those links show any huge sale numbers for z10?

    A supplier has bought according to BB a million phones not z10.. probably for launch in states I assume which surely would have been expected. :confused:

    We shall see how many they actually sell to customers.

    However you seem to have some impression I have an issue with BB from your post, why is that? My statement of opinion on the z10 failing didn't mean I want it to or will be particularly happy if it does.
  • Big PoyBig Poy Posts: 7,420
    Forum Member
    swordman wrote: »
    And your point being what exactly? Does any of those links show any huge sale numbers for z10?

    A supplier has bought according to BB a million phones not z10.. probably for launch in states I assume which surely would have been expected. :confused:

    We shall see how many they actually sell to customers.

    However you seem to have some impression I have an issue with BB from your post, why is that? My statement of opinion on the z10 failing didn't mean I want it to or will be particularly happy if it does.


    I never claimed it showed BB10 was a success or sold big, just that there is lots of positive information that i bet many would be happy to sweep under the carpet.

    Admittedly we won't have solid numbers untill the ER and this million number won't be included in the March report, but with all the info been put out recently i am cautiously optimistic that they are selling rather well.

    The US release will also give us more indication on how BB10 is being percieved.

    And well from your posts i find it hard not to come to that conclusion, i could be wrong.
  • slick1twoslick1two Posts: 2,877
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    Big Poy wrote: »
    I never claimed it showed BB10 was a success or sold big, just that there is lots of positive information that i bet many would be happy to sweep under the carpet.

    Admittedly we won't have solid numbers untill the ER and this million number won't be included in the March report, but with all the info been put out recently i am cautiously optimistic that they are selling rather well.

    The US release will also give us more indication on how BB10 is being percieved.

    And well from your posts i find it hard not to come to that conclusion, i could be wrong.

    These news snippets did not show up on Swordman's radar :D.

    It only tracks negative BB news. Remember BB will be gone in 6 months, according to this great tech oracle known as Swordman.
  • swordmanswordman Posts: 6,679
    Forum Member
    From my posts saying the z10 won't be a success why? I speak as I find and look at it objectively... I have no personal axe to grind against BB in fact I was hoping it would be a success as more competition the better.

    The phone looks ok tbh quite good in some ways however a bit late imo. I did also think some people on here claiming it was a game changer etc needed a reality check
  • slick1twoslick1two Posts: 2,877
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    swordman wrote: »
    From my posts saying the z10 won't be a success why? I speak as I find and look at it objectively... I have no personal axe to grind against BB in fact I was hoping it would be a success as more competition the better.

    The phone looks ok tbh quite good in some ways however a bit late imo. I did also think some people on here claiming it was a game changer etc needed a reality check

    backtracking a bit are we? :p A couple of weeks ago, you pretty much wrote BB and the Z10 off as a failure.

    Why the change of heart?
  • slick1twoslick1two Posts: 2,877
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    http://www.forbes.com/sites/afontevecchia/2013/03/14/nearly-half-of-blackberry-z10-buyers-switching-from-iphone-and-android/
    BlackBerry’s new smartphone is stealing iPhone and Android users, according to a recent note by RBC Capital markets, which shows 45% of those buying Z10s converted from the two leading operating systems. Recent data points suggest BlackBerry’s fourth quarter sell-through rate will come in substantially stronger than initially expected. While projections were low to start with, both consumer and enterprise demand look encouraging. BlackBerry 10’s success or failure will ultimately depend on U.S. demand, though, which makes up approximately 20% of the company’s subscriber base, according to RBC Capital Markets.

    Putting all its chips on its new operating system, BlackBerry has had to fight an uphill battle to get investors to back them. And, despite pretty good ratings by consumers and industry experts from the start, skepticism loomed large (I personally wasn’t convinced from a market perspective, as I explained here). Yet, the stock has mounted an impressive rally, with BlackBerry rallying nearly 34% in 2013.

    RBC’s research team estimates BlackBerry will deliver 500,000 units in the February quarter, up from their previous estimate of 350,000; for the May quarter, they’ve maintained their 2 million-unit estimate. “BlackBerry indicated sell-through is 40% above its (low) projections,” the analysts explained,

    So it's not all doom and gloom then at BB? Swordman, care to comment? :D
  • swordmanswordman Posts: 6,679
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    If that is true it is not a surprise is it? BB lost so much market share in the last two years that some will come back when something new comes out to be expected as some will want to try it out.

    Let me clarify for you is the z10 rubbish no is not is it a bit last year yes it is. Now BB have to attract not just a few new users but many many users and keep them. I'm afraid when you compare the like of the z10 to the s4 HTC one it just will not have this draw simple especially with it choosing the same.

    If BB are not going to release budget handsets as they claim and are hanging their hats on z10 success it will have to sell in the USA. Don't forget we are still in the honeymoon proof for this phone and initial reports have still been disappointing. Reports indicate that key markets of Canada and UK sales have died off.

    Several months from now we will see whether I am right or whether Alicia Keys has rode to the rescue ;)
  • clonmultclonmult Posts: 3,366
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    swordman wrote: »
    Let me clarify for you is the z10 rubbish no is not is it a bit last year yes it is. Now BB have to attract not just a few new users but many many users and keep them. I'm afraid when you compare the like of the z10 to the s4 HTC one it just will not have this draw simple especially with it choosing the same.

    Is it a bit last year ... yes? How do you figure that?

    Yes, it would appear that BB have gone a little too far with gestures, but it definitely isn't "last year".

    The S4 brings overblown specs to market. The HTC One brings a slightly above average camera and excellent build quality & design. The Z10 brings gestures back into the mainstream (well, they weren't ever really there) and likely the best corporate connectivity by a fair margin.

    Comparing them would be based on an individuals requirements. Personally I wouldn't go for any of them, as my priority is on imaging, and they're all a bit rubbish on that count.

    For my works phone I'm hoping that BB is still available when it comes to upgrade time, as I'm wanting to jump back to a BB asap. Both iPhones and Android devices suck as corporate mail devices :(
  • swordmanswordman Posts: 6,679
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    I will give you the reasons it is last year HTC one, xpetia z and s4 any of those will show you exactly why.
  • slick1twoslick1two Posts: 2,877
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    swordman wrote: »
    I will give you the reasons it is last year HTC one, xpetia z and s4 any of those will show you exactly why.

    Mr Swordman what you seem to have a difficulty in understanding is the fact that the Z10 is the first proper all touch screen phone with a newly written OS. you are losing sight of that. How many versions of The Samsung galaxy have their been? or HTCs running Android? dates back from when I had a HTC Hero. They have had a good 4 years fine fine tuning android and souping up the hardware.

    The Z10 is an excellent phone for a first gen bb10 phone. Yet still it is on a par with some beefy Android handsets and up there with an iPhone 5. Wait until BB have had a chance to develop is 10 and bring out the next batch of phones to really see what's up.

    Its not about trying to out sell the latest and greatest phones, its about getting back in the mix. The z10 is a capable phone and contrary to what you think, not everybody wants or needs an Android phone.
  • swordmanswordman Posts: 6,679
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    Oh dear! If we were two years in the past you may have a point and I may agree with you.... However The z10 needs to be a success now not lay some foundation for the future. You are aware of BB's position I take it? They don't have years to develop and finesse they need sales and now.

    It doesn't matter what l think about platforms all that matters is punters comparing phones and making choices and BB need them to choose theirs.
  • clonmultclonmult Posts: 3,366
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    swordman wrote: »
    I will give you the reasons it is last year HTC one, xpetia z and s4 any of those will show you exactly why.

    And you still aren't giving any genuine reasons.

    I have a Nexus 7, I like Android. But none of those have any obvious major advantage over the Z10.

    Xperia Z - waterproof, which is nice. Won't stay waterproof forever, as you're likely to lose/break the rubber covers ...

    S4 - triumph of specification over everything else. Those 8 cores are of roughly zero use in the real world. The camera brings it up to the Xperia Z level.

    HTC One - nice build, slightly above average camera.

    The Z10 brings a different interface; I do believe they should have kept it simpler like on the Playbook, but as it stands I can't see that it is obviously lacking unless you're a rabid Android or iOS fanboi.
  • swordmanswordman Posts: 6,679
    Forum Member
    That's your opinion but unfortunately means nothing. all that matters to BB is people buy the z10 over those phones.

    My contention is regardless of my personal view of the z10 is that they won't.
  • slick1twoslick1two Posts: 2,877
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    swordman wrote: »
    Oh dear! If we were two years in the past you may have a point and I may agree with you.... However The z10 needs to be a success now not lay some foundation for the future. You are aware of BB's position I take it? They don't have years to develop and finesse they need sales and now.

    It doesn't matter what l think about platforms all that matters is punters comparing phones and making choices and BB need them to choose theirs.

    Which is why what you are expecting was just not going to happen. How can they become an overnight success when they were in such dire straights?? They had to change their leadership and change direction, I don;t know what fantasy land you live in, but things just don't work the way you believe they do. You don't just magically zap a phone in to existence with all the bells and whistles on, it takes time.

    BB shunned going the Android route and decided to build their own Operating system,that's not something you can magic out of thin air, it takes a lot of R&D, time and money to get it right.

    What BB have achieved is commendable, given they had had back room issues to sort out, and are still here, not dead like many people were expecting.

    As I said they don't need to leap frog Samsung and Apple to stay relevant.They just need to be in the mix so that they can kick on with better hardware and improved software.

    Please try and be realistic.
  • swordmanswordman Posts: 6,679
    Forum Member
    You see you can give BB all the pats on the back you want it won't translate into sales. BB are an established phone brand so don't make out they are just entering the phone market.

    whatever the why's about what they are doing doesn't change the simple truth you have to sell phones end of. The mobile phone market is the most competive market there is, time to develop and improve when you have no cash is not a luxury your going to get.

    The mistake your making is making this about opinions mine is as irrelevant as yours when it comes to this debate the simple fact is will enough people choose the z10 above the competition to bring BB back I say no you clearly think yes we shall see.
  • slick1twoslick1two Posts: 2,877
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    swordman wrote: »
    You see you can give BB all the pats on the back you want it won't translate into sales. BB are an established phone brand so don't make out they are just entering the phone market.

    whatever the why's about what they are doing doesn't change the simple truth you have to sell phones end of. The mobile phone market is the most competive market there is, time to develop and improve when you have no cash is not a luxury your going to get.

    The mistake your making is making this about opinions mine is as irrelevant as yours when it comes to this debate the simple fact is will enough people choose the z10 above the competition to bring BB back I say no you clearly think yes we shall see.

    I didn't say they are going to sell massive numbers, i always maintained, they will consolidate ground and start to build from that.

    Yes BB have been in the phone market a long time, but they had royally screwed up and lost ground. They have had to change pretty much their mentality and focus and are making some strides now. Of course it's sales what matters but this is a new platform, and it's different to what is out there so until BB really start to put in some serious development, reception may be somewhat lukewarm but once people become aware of BB being a viable alternative platform, they will grow.

    There is plenty of room for alternative products so I think BB can recover and it only takes releasing one killer product to get back on top, so who knows what the future may bring, but tech world is funny like that, you can never say never.

    So yes we shall see.
  • swordmanswordman Posts: 6,679
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    We will... I would like nothing more than to admit I'm wrong believe it or not. I don't think BB falling will benefit consumers in any way.

    I accept as you do they won't sell massive numbers or become number 1 but they have to improve the position and quickly I just fear the z10 won't do it.
  • swordmanswordman Posts: 6,679
    Forum Member
    Time for an update?

    i was nosing through smartphone stores to see what the latest grade A prices on an s3 were for someone when I came across the z10. Grade A as new £304 :eek: I though is that right and with some checking it is indeed.

    S3 goes for £274 12 months old
    5s goes for £360 6 months old

    So a couple of months after release it is almost half the original price, never have I seen this for any phone. Got me thinking are these being got shot of or returned very quickly and then lo and behold came across this.

    http://www.mcvuk.com/news/read/blackberry-z10-returns-outnumbering-sales/0114093
    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-04-11/blackberry-falls-on-reports-of-weakening-sales-returns-of-z10.html
    http://blogs.wsj.com/digits/2013/04/11/analyst-blackberry-z10-returns-outnumber-sales/

    BB say no:
    http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/enterprise/381118/blackberry-denies-report-z10-returns-outnumber-sales

    Sales in the US have been dire with Goldman Sachs downgrading BlackBerry over its weak U.S. sales and with the phone that price in smartfone store things looking very dodgy indeed.
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