And also, telling a MALE rape victim who understandably feels ashamed and emasculated already (and if she had stopped thinking about herself - I know, impossible - for 2 seconds she would have realized that) that he wasn't man enough is unforgivable.
She was going on like she is more of a victim then JP where as JP was actually raped she wasn't. She cant even begin to compare experiences, she was saved, JP is still battling with his demons now.
You really can't play the "my rape is worse than yours game", in reality its not acceptable to make those sorts of comparisons because we cannot make a judgement on who suffers more in a situation like this - its a very individual response and depends on personality and previous life experiences. From Nancy's point of view JP hasnt confided in her so she wasnt aware and that was one of the points she made. I wonder if you would be quite so magnaminlous if you were in Nancy's shoes
JP is more of a victim than Nancy. What she went through I am sure was horrible but she wasn't actually raped. I know it politically correct to say that attempted rape victims go through all the same trauma as those actually raped. I just don't think that is the case.
You really can't play the "my rape is worse than yours game", in reality its not acceptable to make those sorts of comparisons because we cannot make a judgement on who suffers more in a situation like this - its a very individual response and depends on personality and previous life experiences. From Nancy's point of view JP hasnt confided in her so she wasnt aware and that was one of the points she made. I wonder if you would be quite so magnaminlous if you were in Nancy's shoes
Right you asked what everyones problem is with Nancy so I said that she we playing more of a victim then JP. So why are you saying that to me? and TBFH I have actually been through what JP has so do you want to ask me that again!!!!!!!!
And also, telling a MALE rape victim who understandably feels ashamed and emasculated already (and if she had stopped thinking about herself - I know, impossible - for 2 seconds she would have realized that) that he wasn't man enough is unforgivable.
You really can't play the "my rape is worse than yours game", in reality its not acceptable to make those sorts of comparisons because we cannot make a judgement on who suffers more in a situation like this - its a very individual response and depends on personality and previous life experiences. From Nancy's point of view JP hasnt confided in her so she wasnt aware and that was one of the points she made. I wonder if you would be quite so magnaminlous if you were in Nancy's shoes
Why can't we apply that to Blessing as well then? Finn put her in the hospital? Maybe she thought she was going to die when he was attacking her. It would be very humiliating to be exposed to the world as transgender as part of an attack like that. HO is not making that comparison.
The crime against Nancy was just as bad as the crime against JP because she is a woman and rape is a crime against women. It would be easier for her to report to the police for all sort of reasons HO will not address. JP is being told to man up to protect other victims (read other women) from rapists. This brings up all sorts of issue. I have never liked Nancy in this storyline and I just am never going to.
You really can't play the "my rape is worse than yours game", in reality its not acceptable to make those sorts of comparisons because we cannot make a judgement on who suffers more in a situation like this - its a very individual response and depends on personality and previous life experiences. From Nancy's point of view JP hasnt confided in her so she wasnt aware and that was one of the points she made. I wonder if you would be quite so magnaminlous if you were in Nancy's shoes
I had a problem with Nancy saying JP was not man enough at a time when he probably felt particularly emasculated. Also, she said he had plenty of time to get over it so I think she was saying her pain was worse than his.
Right you asked what everyones problem is with Nancy so I said that she we playing more of a victim then JP. So why are you saying that to me? and TBFH I have actually been through what JP has so do you want to ask me that again!!!!!!!!
I agree with your point of view about Nancy!
I'm also really sorry to hear that you went through the same experience as JP yourself. I hope you are in a better place now & managed to get some justice! Wishing you all the very best xx
And also, telling a MALE rape victim who understandably feels ashamed and emasculated already (and if she had stopped thinking about herself - I know, impossible - for 2 seconds she would have realized that) that he wasn't man enough is unforgivable.
Her actual words if I remember rightly were that she had to be "man enough for both of us", that expression does not disparage his masculinity, it's a reference to bravery. She was actually saying "I had to be brave enough" for both of us. You could argue that the expression itself is outdated and from a feminist viewpoint has implications that women are not brave, but it is a common expression and you are just reading implications into it that aren't there.
Why on earth wouldnt she be thinking about herself at that point, she's just gone through a horrible experience. It would seem much more unrealistic for anyone in that situation to have gone "oh forget about me and my experiences John Paul, let's just concentrate on you!". I don't think that one knocks out the other - they have both been through a horrible experience
Her actual words if I remember rightly were that she had to be "man enough for both of us", that expression does not disparage his masculinity, it's a reference to bravery. She was actually saying "I had to be brave enough" for both of us. You could argue that the expression itself is outdated and from a feminist viewpoint has implications that women are not brave, but it is a common expression and you are just reading implications into it that aren't there.
Why on earth wouldnt she be thinking about herself at that point, she's just gone through a horrible experience. It would seem much more unrealistic for anyone in that situation to have gone "oh forget about me and my experiences John Paul, let's just concentrate on you!". I don't think that one knocks out the other - they have both been through a horrible experience
The use of that particular phrase was a very deliberate choice on the part of the writers and the character. I am not really sure how you can argue otherwise. People are taking it how it was meant to be taken.
I'm also really sorry to hear that you went through the same experience as JP yourself. I hope you are in a better place now & managed to get some justice! Wishing you all the very best xx
Thank you. Didn't mean to rant lol but touched a sore spot that did. I am in a better place now and wouldn't change my life in the slightest xx
Her actual words if I remember rightly were that she had to be "man enough for both of us", that expression does not disparage his masculinity, it's a reference to bravery. She was actually saying "I had to be brave enough" for both of us. You could argue that the expression itself is outdated and from a feminist viewpoint has implications that women are not brave, but it is a common expression and you are just reading implications into it that aren't there.
Why on earth wouldnt she be thinking about herself at that point, she's just gone through a horrible experience. It would seem much more unrealistic for anyone in that situation to have gone "oh forget about me and my experiences John Paul, let's just concentrate on you!". I don't think that one knocks out the other - they have both been through a horrible experience
She should have chosen a different way of saying it. What she said made her look like a cow.
What JP went through was deeply traumatic, and his only responsibility was to himself, not to anyone else. Everyone reacts to a trauma such as rape in different ways, with different timings and different ways of coping. If he wasn't able to speak about it to anyone, he wasn't able. Fullstop. He is the victim, he doesn't need Nancy or anyone else going around blaming him or judging him for not being man enough ( = coward).
If their positions were reversed, I can assure you that JP wouldn't have behaved like this with Nancy, ever. He would have put aside his attack and stood by her the moment he found out that she had been raped.
But JP is a better person than Nancy, so I didn't expect anything different.
I really don't think JP should have to do anything, he's a victim, it's his body, he was violated and hurry but it's deeply private.
There are a million things I can't tell people and none as horrific as what he went though
Nancy is an opinionated feminist, she is not afraid to be wrong, stand her ground and yell and scream, when I was younger I used to really admire her,.
JP isn't like that, he's the voice of reason in a crazy house and often is not heard, so he keeps his head down, try's not to get noticed and does anything for a quiet life, he couldn't tell people he was bullied, doubted himself and his self worth so much he wouldn't stand up to them and Danny.
I'm shocked that he's a teacher, unless you teach you don't understand how hard it is to stand in front of a class, and given what he's like it seems and odd career, he's so filled with doubt and self hate, being somewhere where you are constantly questioned seems odd, though his kindness does suggest a caring role so it does make sense there.
I hate that rape is about the victim, and how we can stop being raped, rather than stopping this evil behaviour which people use it as a weapon
Also in jp's defence rape is considered a woman focused crime, until recently anything other than a man raping a woman was not considered rape it was sexual assault. Even legally it wasn't rape but now it is, so for JP who feels devalued he thinks his crime is lower in statute
While I do admire Nancy for her feminism and that she is a strong woman, I still think it was cruel to say a victim of rape is not man enough. JP never said that her victimisation was less important than his, but she sure did for hers. I really hope we do not see any more apologies from JP. There's been enough of that from him.
I really don't think JP should have to do anything, he's a victim, it's his body, he was violated and hurry but it's deeply private.
I hate that rape is about the victim, and how we can stop being raped, rather than stopping this evil behaviour which people use it as a weapon
I hate this about this storyline too, how far too much of it has been focused on what victims can do to protect other people from being raped. That is a very harsh way to look at things to hold victim's instead of the police and courts responsible. This storyline has been about that from the very start when there was a lot of focus about what JP needed to do for Sam. Now what he needs to do for Nancy.
How about focusing on how society treats victims. Or how it is possible to do everything "right" and have the rapist still get off. The assumption that they seem to be making is the JP reporting that night automatically would have ensured Finn's conviction and JP's healing. That's not necessarily true. There are far more problems with how rape is prosecuted than just victims not coming forward immediately.
I hate this about this storyline too, how far too much of it has been focused on what victims can do to protect other people from being raped. That is a very harsh way to look at things to hold victim's instead of the police and courts responsible. This storyline has been about that from the very start when there was a lot of focus about what JP needed to do for Sam. Now what he needs to do for Nancy.
How about focusing on how society treats victims. Or how it is possible to do everything "right" and have the rapist still get off. The assumption that they seem to be making is the JP reporting that night automatically would have ensured Finn's conviction and JP's healing. That's not necessarily true. There are far more problems with how rape is prosecuted than just victims not coming forward immediately.
The funny thing is that both JP AND Nancy are victims but the writers etc have managed to split the viewers as to JP being weak and Nancy being a cow. If they had written this storyline in any positive way then these 2 would have supported each other. HO has failed again!
I was annoyed that they made this storyline all about how strong Nancy is and how weak JP is. Nancy is enough storylines already. She did not need to be foisted into this one just to emasculate JP.
I hate this about this storyline too, how far too much of it has been focused on what victims can do to protect other people from being raped. That is a very harsh way to look at things to hold victim's instead of the police and courts responsible. This storyline has been about that from the very start when there was a lot of focus about what JP needed to do for Sam. Now what he needs to do for Nancy.
How about focusing on how society treats victims. Or how it is possible to do everything "right" and have the rapist still get off. The assumption that they seem to be making is the JP reporting that night automatically would have ensured Finn's conviction and JP's healing. That's not necessarily true. There are far more problems with how rape is prosecuted than just victims not coming forward immediately.
Exactly. It also feels like there's been more focus on Finn; I think it would have been a lot better to have a student come in for the purpose of this storyline. Because it's more 'entertaining' to see a baddie than a victim, naturally they were going to turn Finn into the local rapist. Hence instead of focusing on the personal tragedy, JP becomes just another victim.
Sam shouldn't have been killed off! Not sure if they thought this through!
I think they wrote himself in the corner there. I think they didn't know how to resolve the whole Danny/JP/Sam thing. Having the main cop handling JP's case be the angry wife of JP's lover was going to be tricky all along....so they just killed them off. Lazy writing to remove them as obstacles in the JP storyline and in the Leela/Peri storyline.
I think they wrote himself in the corner there. I think they didn't know how to resolve the whole Danny/JP/Sam thing. Having the main cop handling JP's case be the angry wife of JP's lover was going to be tricky all along....so they just killed them off. Lazy writing to remove them as obstacles in the JP storyline and in the Leela/Peri storyline.
I think that could have been interesting, Danny learning Sam knew his beloved was raped, this after them getting back together for the good of the kids and JP and Ste getting together.
Lots of nice issues and loads of hollyoaks plots
She was going on like she is more of a victim then JP where as JP was actually raped she wasn't. She cant even begin to compare experiences, she was saved, JP is still battling with his demons now.
Yeah I could not believe what she said to JP. Considering how she has been cheating away for no reason at all other than her own selfishness it makes you realise what a nasty person Nancy really is. JP is best not having her friendship to be honest. If she is going to act and speak like that then let her regret it for years to come. Her loss.
I haven't watched it but it sounds to me as if HO are going the way I suggested. Finn's end will not be in court.
In court everything has to be beyond reasonable doubt. Nancy smelling aftershave won't wash especially after the I'd of Robbie. With JP he can say he force I'm to do it. I have seen a film based on real events where a teacher made a child do something similar. Finn is technically a child. It is his word against JP and he did go to prison. There is enough doubt for an acquittal. If HO wanted a clear case they would have CCTV of all or some of the attacks. There is hardly anywhere in the UK that isn't covered by them.
Perhaps they will acquit him now and he will be caught doing something else or in a sting to make it more dramatic. I can imagine like in murder on the orient express where everyone ganged up on he villain.
Comments
You really can't play the "my rape is worse than yours game", in reality its not acceptable to make those sorts of comparisons because we cannot make a judgement on who suffers more in a situation like this - its a very individual response and depends on personality and previous life experiences. From Nancy's point of view JP hasnt confided in her so she wasnt aware and that was one of the points she made. I wonder if you would be quite so magnaminlous if you were in Nancy's shoes
Yea I agree.
Right you asked what everyones problem is with Nancy so I said that she we playing more of a victim then JP. So why are you saying that to me? and TBFH I have actually been through what JP has so do you want to ask me that again!!!!!!!!
Exactly, she was just plain nasty to him.
Why can't we apply that to Blessing as well then? Finn put her in the hospital? Maybe she thought she was going to die when he was attacking her. It would be very humiliating to be exposed to the world as transgender as part of an attack like that. HO is not making that comparison.
The crime against Nancy was just as bad as the crime against JP because she is a woman and rape is a crime against women. It would be easier for her to report to the police for all sort of reasons HO will not address. JP is being told to man up to protect other victims (read other women) from rapists. This brings up all sorts of issue. I have never liked Nancy in this storyline and I just am never going to.
I had a problem with Nancy saying JP was not man enough at a time when he probably felt particularly emasculated. Also, she said he had plenty of time to get over it so I think she was saying her pain was worse than his.
I agree with your point of view about Nancy!
I'm also really sorry to hear that you went through the same experience as JP yourself. I hope you are in a better place now & managed to get some justice! Wishing you all the very best xx
Her actual words if I remember rightly were that she had to be "man enough for both of us", that expression does not disparage his masculinity, it's a reference to bravery. She was actually saying "I had to be brave enough" for both of us. You could argue that the expression itself is outdated and from a feminist viewpoint has implications that women are not brave, but it is a common expression and you are just reading implications into it that aren't there.
Why on earth wouldnt she be thinking about herself at that point, she's just gone through a horrible experience. It would seem much more unrealistic for anyone in that situation to have gone "oh forget about me and my experiences John Paul, let's just concentrate on you!". I don't think that one knocks out the other - they have both been through a horrible experience
The use of that particular phrase was a very deliberate choice on the part of the writers and the character. I am not really sure how you can argue otherwise. People are taking it how it was meant to be taken.
Thank you. Didn't mean to rant lol but touched a sore spot that did. I am in a better place now and wouldn't change my life in the slightest xx
She should have chosen a different way of saying it. What she said made her look like a cow.
What JP went through was deeply traumatic, and his only responsibility was to himself, not to anyone else. Everyone reacts to a trauma such as rape in different ways, with different timings and different ways of coping. If he wasn't able to speak about it to anyone, he wasn't able. Fullstop. He is the victim, he doesn't need Nancy or anyone else going around blaming him or judging him for not being man enough ( = coward).
If their positions were reversed, I can assure you that JP wouldn't have behaved like this with Nancy, ever. He would have put aside his attack and stood by her the moment he found out that she had been raped.
But JP is a better person than Nancy, so I didn't expect anything different.
There are a million things I can't tell people and none as horrific as what he went though
Nancy is an opinionated feminist, she is not afraid to be wrong, stand her ground and yell and scream, when I was younger I used to really admire her,.
JP isn't like that, he's the voice of reason in a crazy house and often is not heard, so he keeps his head down, try's not to get noticed and does anything for a quiet life, he couldn't tell people he was bullied, doubted himself and his self worth so much he wouldn't stand up to them and Danny.
I'm shocked that he's a teacher, unless you teach you don't understand how hard it is to stand in front of a class, and given what he's like it seems and odd career, he's so filled with doubt and self hate, being somewhere where you are constantly questioned seems odd, though his kindness does suggest a caring role so it does make sense there.
I hate that rape is about the victim, and how we can stop being raped, rather than stopping this evil behaviour which people use it as a weapon
Also in jp's defence rape is considered a woman focused crime, until recently anything other than a man raping a woman was not considered rape it was sexual assault. Even legally it wasn't rape but now it is, so for JP who feels devalued he thinks his crime is lower in statute
I hate this about this storyline too, how far too much of it has been focused on what victims can do to protect other people from being raped. That is a very harsh way to look at things to hold victim's instead of the police and courts responsible. This storyline has been about that from the very start when there was a lot of focus about what JP needed to do for Sam. Now what he needs to do for Nancy.
How about focusing on how society treats victims. Or how it is possible to do everything "right" and have the rapist still get off. The assumption that they seem to be making is the JP reporting that night automatically would have ensured Finn's conviction and JP's healing. That's not necessarily true. There are far more problems with how rape is prosecuted than just victims not coming forward immediately.
The funny thing is that both JP AND Nancy are victims but the writers etc have managed to split the viewers as to JP being weak and Nancy being a cow. If they had written this storyline in any positive way then these 2 would have supported each other. HO has failed again!
Exactly. It also feels like there's been more focus on Finn; I think it would have been a lot better to have a student come in for the purpose of this storyline. Because it's more 'entertaining' to see a baddie than a victim, naturally they were going to turn Finn into the local rapist. Hence instead of focusing on the personal tragedy, JP becomes just another victim.
I think they wrote himself in the corner there. I think they didn't know how to resolve the whole Danny/JP/Sam thing. Having the main cop handling JP's case be the angry wife of JP's lover was going to be tricky all along....so they just killed them off. Lazy writing to remove them as obstacles in the JP storyline and in the Leela/Peri storyline.
I think that could have been interesting, Danny learning Sam knew his beloved was raped, this after them getting back together for the good of the kids and JP and Ste getting together.
Lots of nice issues and loads of hollyoaks plots
Yeah I could not believe what she said to JP. Considering how she has been cheating away for no reason at all other than her own selfishness it makes you realise what a nasty person Nancy really is. JP is best not having her friendship to be honest. If she is going to act and speak like that then let her regret it for years to come. Her loss.
Sorry just getting it off my chest before it happens
I'm all for a SE ( a definitive one, with no returns ever). The sooner they both disappear from my sight, the better.
What the hell is wrong with George?? Can't he effing take a hint?? For God's sake. *rolling eyes*
In court everything has to be beyond reasonable doubt. Nancy smelling aftershave won't wash especially after the I'd of Robbie. With JP he can say he force I'm to do it. I have seen a film based on real events where a teacher made a child do something similar. Finn is technically a child. It is his word against JP and he did go to prison. There is enough doubt for an acquittal. If HO wanted a clear case they would have CCTV of all or some of the attacks. There is hardly anywhere in the UK that isn't covered by them.
Perhaps they will acquit him now and he will be caught doing something else or in a sting to make it more dramatic. I can imagine like in murder on the orient express where everyone ganged up on he villain.