Jamaica Inn

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  • SapphicGrrlSapphicGrrl Posts: 3,992
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    snafu65 wrote: »
    It's got nothing to do with sound levels or quality, the actors mumbled, full stop. Sean Harris was the worst offender, he even talks out of just the side of his mouth most of the time to make it worse. Can't believe this wasn't picked up during production.
    It was SUCH a pity - he really did ruin the whole thing. Those who've read the book will know that the moment when Mary first meets Joss is a really important one, and partially sets the tone for their relationship. Instead of a monstrous menacing shape looming out of the mist, we got a youngish thinnish bloke ambling about in the back yard looking as if he'd come to pinch a few chickens. No way would feisty Mary be rooted to the spot by a runaway Borstal boy with a bad case of adenoids and an apparent speech impediment (and neither would the once-lovely Patience)! Trying to convince the viewer that this snotty twerp was responsible for an entire wrecking operation and had people eating out of his charismatic hands, was just pushing things TOOOO far!! :(
  • J.RJ.R Posts: 2,953
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    I just spent a blissful three hours watching the 1983 HTV version - it only served to underline how appalling this BBC production is! Patrick McGoohan TOWERED over everyone (in every sense! He really did seem incredibly tall, so they got that part right!) and even when he was slurring drunken confessions at Mary, he enunciated! The exquisite score was recorded by the Royal Philharmonic Orchestra - and boy, what a difference it made to listen to such stirring, romantic strains while watching ACTUAL CORNISH SCENERY! I can't recommend this version highly enough to anyone disappointed by the BBC's effort!



    WOW! That's telling them! Good for him! :D



    I just found it on you tube
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a5DhbjCvPsc
    for anyone interested.
    its divided into half hour episodes but can be watched all in one go. I just watched the first episode, starts very differently but sets the scene very well of what she left behind and the stark contrast to where she found herself. Right at the end of that first episode Joss makes his first appearance in the form of Patrick Magoohan - wow talk about stark contrasts!!! Scarey.

    Funnily enough MrsGeneHunt I thought your other half - in the form of Philip Glennister would have made a good Joss.

    I agree with oldnjaded about the 'wrecking' scenes on the beach of this version, very well done and a brilliant climax - sadly lost its way again a bit after that and went a bit spaghetti western but should be remembered for those gripping scenes if nothing else. There were some very good moments throughout though, just not enough to fill three hours imo.
  • Killary45Killary45 Posts: 1,826
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    Straker wrote: »
    Nailed by The Mail:

    ".....mumbled and slurred in fake Cornish accents that were apparently mimicked from the fictional pirate Captain Pugwash....."

    The Daily Mail should know that Captain Pugwash had received pronunciation and was always crystal clear. All the voices in Pugwash were voiced by the great Peter Hawkins, and it is an insult to him to suggest that he mumbled and slurred.
  • roger_50roger_50 Posts: 6,884
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    JohnQuig wrote: »
    Nothing wrong with the sound recorded on location. Saw a screener copy of episode 1 because I write for a website and the sound was absolutely fine. It was definitely a transmission error. Sound was fine tonight and last night.
    Nope, sound was pretty much just as bad. Slightly better maybe - in certain scenes - but the fundamental problem with the sound clarity remained in all episodes.
  • Richard TaylorRichard Taylor Posts: 546
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    As a retired BBC Broadcast Engineer it really annoys me that the beeb is happy to pump millions into programme adverts, but nothing into Quality Monitoring. And that it consistently refuses to enforce it's own guidelines. Even when Tony Hall mentions it!

    Guidelines state that the final edit must be checked by someone not involved in the edit and in a "domestic" environment. Although this was an indie production I suspect it was commissioned, which means the BBC has total control over it.

    Those who say they noticed no sound problems can only be watching on a cheap telly with no decent frequency response.

    Richard
  • lady_xanaxlady_xanax Posts: 5,662
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    It was SUCH a pity - he really did ruin the whole thing. Those who've read the book will know that the moment when Mary first meets Joss is a really important one, and partially sets the tone for their relationship.

    I love how it's written in the book- like a sort of meeting of minds. That's why Patience needs to be weak and silly-headed, to explain Joss' interest in Mary and to show what Mary could be reduced to if she got in with his gang. He also seems quite charismatic (well, so far), unlike Sean Harris' portrayal.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 372
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    Interesting to know the viewing figures. Did many switch off because of the quality? I did because I couldn't make out what they were saying (joss was the worst!) also couldn't see the picture on my led screen...... Rubbish and this is the bbc using our money.!
  • StrakerStraker Posts: 79,551
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    Killary45 wrote: »
    The Daily Mail should know that Captain Pugwash had received pronunciation and was always crystal clear. All the voices in Pugwash were voiced by the great Peter Hawkins, and it is an insult to him to suggest that he mumbled and slurred.

    They were talking about the Pugwash ACCENT and not the delivery.
  • Killary45Killary45 Posts: 1,826
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    Straker wrote: »
    They were talking about the Pugwash ACCENT and not the delivery.
    Which Pugwash accent?

    The captain spoke in a reedy high pitched RP, Tom the cabin boy spoke RP, Master Mate had a generic London accent, Pirate Willy had a high northern accent.

    Cuthroat Jake had a West Country accent, but he was always perfectly clear.

    Peter Hawkins was the voice of Bill & Ben, Tintin, the Daleks and many others - he never mumbled or slurred. Bill & Ben may have been talking gibberish but you could hear every syllable of it.
  • SapphicGrrlSapphicGrrl Posts: 3,992
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    lady_xanax wrote: »
    I love how it's written in the book- like a sort of meeting of minds. That's why Patience needs to be weak and silly-headed, to explain Joss' interest in Mary and to show what Mary could be reduced to if she got in with his gang. He also seems quite charismatic (well, so far), unlike Sean Harris' portrayal.
    Exactly - why SH thought that Joss should come across as a brain-dead moron (when he's clearly the opposite) is just beyond me. Of course, we can always go along with the statement earlier in the thread, which says that actors don't take any notice of directors these days - well, I don't buy that, sorry. (a) SH should have never have been cast in the first place, but (b) now that they're stuck with him, any decent director should have at least tried to wring a decent performance out of him. Most of the time he looked as if he was reeling about on ketamine, not holding a crowd of ruffians in the palm of his hand, able to quell them with just a magnetic look. Can we do better next time, please, BBC?! >:(
  • MR. MacavityMR. Macavity Posts: 3,875
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    I just spent a blissful three hours watching the 1983 HTV version - it only served to underline how appalling this BBC production is! Patrick McGoohan TOWERED over everyone (in every sense! He really did seem incredibly tall, so they got that part right!) and even when he was slurring drunken confessions at Mary, he enunciated! The exquisite score was recorded by the Royal Philharmonic Orchestra - and boy, what a difference it made to listen to such stirring, romantic strains while watching ACTUAL CORNISH SCENERY! I can't recommend this version highly enough to anyone disappointed by the BBC's effort!



    WOW! That's telling them! Good for him! :D

    I quite like the 1983 version which I watched maybe 3 or 4 years ago. Though the Cornish accents were no better than 2014s - Jane Seymour clearly thought Trevor Eve was still Eddie Shoestring - and I am not sure about the the Cornish scenery?

    It looked to me as the most of it was filmed on Dartmoor (?) as opposed to Bodmin Moor which a fair bit of 2014 was.

    And the ending for 2014 was filmed on the exact spot where the book was set, whereas in 1983 it was set on a cliff which was a total change from the book! So not exactly faithful to DdM.

    The 2014 version was not satisfactory in many ways, but they did make a real effort with the very major and expensive task of location filming - its such a shame that something simple like an actor speaking his lines clearly was overlooked.
  • Zizu58Zizu58 Posts: 3,658
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    There was an adaptation in the late 90s with Emilia Fox, Charles Dance and an excellent Diana Rigg as Mrs Danvers that was really enjoyable. I wouldn't mind seeing another version of Rebecca either.

    I saw Charles Dance and Diana Rigg in a Game of Thrones last night .

    What in earth has she done to her face by the way . She looked like a chip monk !!
  • StrakerStraker Posts: 79,551
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    Killary45 wrote: »
    Which Pugwash accent?

    The captain spoke in a reedy high pitched RP, Tom the cabin boy spoke RP, Master Mate had a generic London accent, Pirate Willy had a high northern accent.

    Cuthroat Jake had a West Country accent, but he was always perfectly clear.

    Peter Hawkins was the voice of Bill & Ben, Tintin, the Daleks and many others - he never mumbled or slurred. Bill & Ben may have been talking gibberish but you could hear every syllable of it.

    You seem to be intent on confusing the Mail piss-takeish reference to the Pugwash accent with the mumbling delivery of the actors. They`re two seperate things and it`s clear that The Mail (no fans of the BBC at the best of times) are using anything they can with which to beat the BBC (no change there). Comparing the pomposity and self-regard of this Jamaica Inn adaptation to a kids paper cut-out animated show from decades ago is simply The Daily Heil`s way of further taking the piss. Geddit?
  • lady_xanaxlady_xanax Posts: 5,662
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    Exactly - why SH thought that Joss should come across as a brain-dead moron (when he's clearly the opposite) is just beyond me.

    There's also meant to be some passing similarity between the brothers whereas they seem like complete opposites. Surely Mary's worried that if she ended up with Jem she'd turn out like Patience?

    In the book Joss looks brutish but seems perfectly intelligent- there's a bit where he chomps a chunk of bread but cuts and butters neatly pieces of bread for Mary. This Joss seems like a complete idiot.
  • TassiumTassium Posts: 31,639
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    This was not (originally) a big deal, the BBC were right to try things for creative reasons.

    Sometimes it comes off, sometimes not.

    What is really sickening is how BBC executives are blaming the people who are not in a position to answer back: the cast and the technical people. Actors do as they are told, unless they are Tom Cruise.

    This is down to: Director/Producer/BBC Head of Drama


    And it really wasn't a big deal. It's the blame game that is going to make it run and run.
  • J.RJ.R Posts: 2,953
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    I quite like the 1983 version which I watched maybe 3 or 4 years ago. Though the Cornish accents were no better than 2014s - Jane Seymour clearly thought Trevor Eve was still Eddie Shoestring - and I am not sure about the the Cornish scenery?

    It looked to me as the most of it was filmed on Dartmoor (?) as opposed to Bodmin Moor which a fair bit of 2014 was.

    And the ending for 2014 was filmed on the exact spot where the book was set, whereas in 1983 it was set on a cliff which was a total change from the book! So not exactly faithful to DdM.

    The 2014 version was not satisfactory in many ways, but they did make a real effort with the very major and expensive task of location filming - its such a shame that something simple like an actor speaking his lines clearly was overlooked.


    Having watched just the first episode - so far - of the 1983 version I would say it's a sanitised version compared with this new one but Patrick Magoohan as Joss - wow what a difference that makes. I am sure it will alter the whole dynamic of it because even from the little I have seen of him so far he was compelling, scarey, forceful, magnetic and not a hint of mumble or grunt! I will definitely watch the rest of it. if someone could do a mash up and lift Patrick and pop him into the new version now that would make it amazing!
  • SapphicGrrlSapphicGrrl Posts: 3,992
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    J.R wrote: »
    Having watched just the first episode - so far - of the 1983 version I would say it's a sanitised version compared with this new one but Patrick Magoohan as Joss - wow what a difference that makes. I am sure it will alter the whole dynamic of it because even from the little I have seen of him so far he was compelling, scarey, forceful, magnetic and not a hint of mumble or grunt! I will definitely watch the rest of it. if someone could do a mash up and lift Patrick and pop him into the new version now that would make it amazing!
    Now you can see how important Joss is, how charismatic his portrayer needs to be, and how he could easily control people with the force of his will and personality. (Sean Harris couldn't control a hamster with his.) The sight of everyone bowing and scraping to that irritating little idiot last night made a mockery of the whole story unfortunately.
  • staticgirlstaticgirl Posts: 55
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    Well once I switched the subtitles on I enjoyed it. I would agree with those of you who said that the mumbling problems were the fault of the Director/Producer/BBC Head of Drama. Harris was miscast but in the end was doing what the Director wanted. I liked Mary as a stroppy sarcastic teen as she was only 20 and perhaps a bit immature. I thought Jem was responding to the sarcasm as he had a few sarky moments too. They seemed to 'get' each other. I don't know where on earth some posters got the idea she thought he was gay from (unless I am misunderstanding them?). She resisted his charms because he was a thief. It didn't work because McNulty is just too damn gorgeous.

    I thought everyone was terrified of Davey because he was sacrificing people to his Old Gods on that Tor where he planned to make Mary decide between sacrifice or becoming his partner. You could see other bits of other people/skeletons there where he pointed at the 'sacrificial stone'. It must have been where people who annoyed him ended up although how he managed that even with his sister's help I don't know. The locals probably thought he could do all sorts of scary things as a result.

    I loved the location shooting. It looked handsome. I didn't mind the grubbiness and darkness as I thought that was moody. I would love to wander around in the interiors of the Jamaica Inn set although I'd need a good torch. It could have been edited down a bit but the pacing didn't really bother me much.

    Over all I'd say it was not excellent or terrible but enjoyably okay. A 6/10 when it should have been an 8 or 8 given the brilliance of the book. What a shame about the mumbling, the beeb really screwed up.
  • JohnQuigJohnQuig Posts: 212
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    fefster wrote: »
    The sound was not fine at all. It was bloody awful. I watched 10 mins to see what all the fuss was about and I couldn't hear a thing from one of the actors - a middle aged bloke. He should be embarrassed, his performance was an utter joke - laughable.

    I said in the screener copy I saw the sound was fine. Presumably you didn't see this screener and you don't live in my house, so you can't say if the sound was fine or not on my copy. I blatantly said it was obviously a transmission error, not an error in the original sound recording.

    I love how on DS everyone seems to be qualified to talk about acting ability - thanks Laurence Olivier!
  • JohnQuigJohnQuig Posts: 212
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    Straker wrote: »

    Same as Sachsgate. Most people won't have even watched the programme, they'll have read it in the paper and decided to complain.
  • StrakerStraker Posts: 79,551
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    JohnQuig wrote: »
    Same as Sachsgate. Most people won't have even watched the programme, they'll have read it in the paper and decided to complain.

    With iPlayer so commonplace it`s safe to assume that if you take the time to complain then you`ll take the time to click on the actual programme.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 5
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    Hi everyone ... I am new here regarding posting. Thankyou for making this thread interesting and at times, very entertaining. I just wanted to say that when I read the preview for Jamaica Inn in one of the tabloids, a remark was made that Joss couldn't be understood. So , if it was published in a newspaper that a problem had been noticed, then others must have been aware? Tehnicians? BBC?

    I had been so looking forward to Jamaica Inn but, like so many others, was disappointed to have to watch with subtitles. I cannot say I had not been warned, though, because I had!
  • ServalanServalan Posts: 10,167
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    JohnQuig wrote: »
    Same as Sachsgate. Most people won't have even watched the programme, they'll have read it in the paper and decided to complain.

    I don't think it's the same as Sachsgate at all. That was driven by the Daily Heil and had all the ingredients perfect for a tabloid 'outrage' story - sex, swearing and two broadcasters that were easy targets. So things that it would be easy for the public to get riled by - hence the snowball reaction off the back of something that barely anyone heard, and that was given no publicity when first broadcast.

    Jamaica Inn, by contrast, was heavily publicised; the bone of contention isn't 'outrageous' in the same way and it came to light via social media, not because of any newspaper. It's also a real problem: Sean Harris was incomprehensible throughout, and to have a main character unintelligible in a primetime drama on BBC One is hardly a smart move - especially when the problem could have remedied, either during filming or in post-production.

    The other big difference is that while Brand and Ross were firmly in the limelight for what they did, nobody is claiming responsibility for what happened with Jamaica Inn. The head of drama is laying most of the blame at the actors' feet - and otherwise there's a very conspicuous silence from Origin Pictures, the BBC executive producers and the controller of BBC One … all of whom will be quietly wishing this would go away after not having done the most basic of jobs.

    Will there be people who haven't watched the show but complained anyway? Almost certainly. But the 'I hate the BBC' brigade are omnipresent, anyway - sponsored by the Heil and the Helegraph - so all Origin and Ben Stephenson did was hand them some ammunition through their own incompetence.
  • Doghouse RileyDoghouse Riley Posts: 32,491
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    I gave the first episode ten minutes, that was enough for me.

    It's a clear indication that the BBC thought it was pants, as they scheduled it for consecutive nights.

    I'm amused that the BBC didn't come out with their usual excuse about viewers not being able to hear the dialogue.

    A few years ago they even brought in a producer to speak on the "Points of View" programme, to arrogantly dismiss the complaints about a particular programme, by suggesting those with problems, "either had hearing difficulties due to a medical condition, or were watching on duff equipment."
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