And Anjem Choudary was proudly telling the BBC that ISIS propagandarists out on London's streets at the weekend were ex students of his.
If Choudary were an Amercian citizen you can be sure that the IRS would be combing over his income stream...while we here in the UK provide housing and benefits for this odious creature and his family .
Shouldn't he be in the new Caliphate by now drawing housing benefit and living in paradise
Real upset at this it's my birthday today and this news, wish I wasn't born into such horrid world. All that comes in front of my eyes the horror that poor man must have endured. Can't help it.
But it's not just them, there are also the muslim converts as seen in the July 7 bombings, the shoe bomber and the murder of Lee Rigby and that's just three of many examples.
yes there are a few converts but I suspect the overwhelming majority of the "500" currently fighting Jihad in the middle east are 1st and 2nd generations of immigrants.
There is no brainwashing. Images of innocents being slaughtered by the likes of Assad & Maliki is all it takes.
It's all it takes if you have been brainwashed >:(
No normal rational thinking person decides to hack a journalists head off because of something totally unrelated that they have seen on tv.
Since when did we have jurisdiction in Syria or Iraq?
As I said previously, arrest them at the point of entry and return them to the country where they've been fighting and hand them to the local authorities.
That can only be done if that country actually wants them extradited.
Not at all.....I have a problem with the Left and Liberty continually defending the indefensible. Everyone has a right to a fair trail - I've not said otherwise. Liberty should be defending the rights of all to freedom and liberty instead of defending those who would remove all personal freedoms and liberties.
So you should have no problem with the Left or Liberty defending the right of a person accused of any offence to a fair trial. What is indefensible about that?
That is simply not true. It was the formation of IS that stopped support in Syria. When It was just local resistance, the UK and the US wanted to support them in their struggle against Assad. Once that resistance became hijacked by extremist groups that support was cut off.
QUOTE=Flibustier;74354388]Half true. Most of the core ISIS fanatics were trained and funded inside Sunni Turkey to topple the Shia Assad with the passive OK from the US (and its lap dog the UK).
Turkey, ruled by Neo Ottoman politicians such as Erdogan and Davutoglu believed they could decide the fate of Syria and take an increased geopolitical role.[/QUOTE]
Except that the idea that IS is some response to American occupation of Iraq or based on some sort of liberation theology is patently false, since they themselves kill other Muslims, recognize no borders and are imperialists all on their own.
They may have found it easier to seize territory in the current state Iraq is in than it would be with, say, Saddam in power. But their hyper-violent ethnic cleansing and religious extremism is of their own making and cannot be laid at the feet of Americans, Brits or anyone else. To believe so is, in my opinion, absolutely foolish.
When any small child is subjected to religious worship before it can reason for itself that is conditioning.
Whatever the religion.
Very profound, but completely irrelevant even by your standards - being as most/all of these British IS fighters were converted to extremist views in adulthood.
That is simply not true. It was the formation of IS that stopped support in Syria. When It was just local resistance, the UK and the US wanted to support them in their struggle against Assad. Once that resistance became hijacked by extremist groups that support was cut off.
You're absolutely right, that's exactly what happened. Some people have short memories.
Very profound, but completely irrelevant even by your standards - being as most/all of these British IS fighters were converted to extremist views in adulthood.
For once, he was completely right.
Do you have personal knowledge of at what age these 500-600 muppets were indoctrinated? If so, I suggest you get in touch with the authorities.
When children are taught to accept any ideology without question, it forms a template and ensures continuity of the cult. Why on earth would the religious be so keen to run our schools otherwise?
I'd imagine when this cowardly scumbag killer's friends, family and associates are found the security services will be using a fine toothcomb to go through them to see what they knew. I really hope all of the British IS fighters die or are captured and interrogated robustly to find out what they know. We're becoming too soft on these barbarians at home and abroad.
I will not however condone US military action in Iraq or Syria. If Obama wants to go to war with IS then prepare for the consequences.
Except that the idea that IS is some response to American occupation of Iraq or based on some sort of liberation theology is patently false, since they themselves kill other Muslims, recognize no borders and are imperialists all on their own.
The Islamic State of Iraq would never of been formed if the US never invaded Iraq.
Of course they don't recognise borders. The idea of nation states is a foreign concept in Islam. Islam preaches one state with one ruler for the muslims.
Most of the core ISIS fanatics were trained and funded inside Sunni Turkey to topple the Shia Assad with the passive OK from the US (and its lap dog the UK).
That's rubbish. Turkey does not want an Islamic State on its borders. They may want to see Assad gone but to think they want an Islamic State to replace him is silly.
That is simply not true. It was the formation of IS that stopped support in Syria. When It was just local resistance, the UK and the US wanted to support them in their struggle against Assad. Once that resistance became hijacked by extremist groups that support was cut off.
I believe that tyrannical and even brutal leadership a la Assad is on a higher scale of political development than chaotic and brutal rebellion. For proof, it is what IS would seek to establish next rather than being able to do that first. Its superiority is in its organisational cohesion. That is an important point for the west to take on board.
I find it almost impossible to believe that people with more of an academic background in international relations than most of us are so naive as to think protesters seeking democracy will generally have more clout than more basic revolutionaries. Where that mix of people exists, the latter will be far more aggressive and obsessive. A balance may not be achievable simply by providing weapons to the former as they will often just be seized by the second group. In fact, are they that naive or creating situations to justify further invasions? Who can be sure?
Whatever, democracy, human rights, majority rule.........these are the high ideals of the west. In the Middle East, it isn't just an either/or - ie those or autocracy. It is those or autocracy or the sort of antediluvian chaos of today.
Half true. Most of the core ISIS fanatics were trained and funded inside Sunni Turkey to topple the Shia Assad with the passive OK from the US (and its lap dog the UK).
Turkey, ruled by Neo Ottoman politicians such as Erdogan and Davutoglu believed they could decide the fate of Syria and take an increased geopolitical role.
Trained and funded inside Turkey perhaps but trained and funded "by" Turkey would be a different matter. I accept the distinction may be nuanced to the point of blurred, just as there are significant parts of current Turkey that would not be fairly summarised as simply "Sunni". There is a democratic strand too. Erdogan may have grand plans but he also has a border to protect plus 80 Turkish citizens are being held by IS. What some might regard as his wanting things both ways may be seen by others as a natural cautiousness. We'd be cautious in that position.
Except that the idea that IS is some response to American occupation of Iraq or based on some sort of liberation theology is patently false, since they themselves kill other Muslims, recognize no borders and are imperialists all on their own.
They may have found it easier to seize territory in the current state Iraq is in than it would be with, say, Saddam in power. But their hyper-violent ethnic cleansing and religious extremism is of their own making and cannot be laid at the feet of Americans, Brits or anyone else. To believe so is, in my opinion, absolutely foolish.
Yes, they have their own persistent dogma. But I don't think the invasion of Iraq was helpful. It created the conditions for instability. That, though, was not my main point when I posted my contribution. I was thinking about the American support for the very mixed bunch of people who were opposing Assad including the tub thumping McCain visit to them. A visit which he kept so secret that not even his family knew he was going. That in itself raises questions about the extent of knowledge on the part of others who in real life were elected to govern.
As was shown in Ukraine, he's a loose cannon with very unfortunate friends. There is, I think, a big question about him, Mossad, and IS. They encourage a tiger out of its cage and feed it, then disappear into the shadows when they find it is difficult to control. Like madmen. I genuinely believe that he is fairly well-meaning but borderline insane.
I notice that Comrade Ed has been very quiet on this incident. He probably needs the muslim vote along with the labor voting sheeple to become the next Prime Minister.
Not a word from the pathetic wimp, and yes he will be counting on the Muslim vote , but he is too stupid to realise that eventually they will NOT vote labour and will vote for their own ie Tower Hamlets . But I guess in the short term he will get Muslim votes , and that is all Labour have ever been interested in , the short term .
Odd how the government are currently banning videos of consenting adults role playing, yet are perfectly happy about real beheading videos of adult males.
Not a word from the pathetic wimp, and yes he will be counting on the Muslim vote , but he is too stupid to realise that eventually they will NOT vote labour and will vote for their own ie Tower Hamlets . But I guess in the short term he will get Muslim votes , and that is all Labour have ever been interested in , the short term .
Just shows how wrong you can be. In fact Ed Miliband tweeted earlier today that: "The killing of James Foley is an appalling act. We will support government both to find the perpetrators and combat the threat of ISIL" https://twitter.com/Ed_Miliband/status/502040325830238208
The idea that he wouldn't comment for fear of losing Muslim votes was clearly ludicrous.
I'd imagine when this cowardly scumbag killer's friends, family and associates are found the security services will be using a fine toothcomb to go through them to see what they knew. I really hope all of the British IS fighters die or are captured and interrogated robustly to find out what they know. We're becoming too soft on these barbarians at home and abroad.
We are not allowed to interrogate robustly, they have to have tea and biscuits and cigarette breaks. We should send them to Guantanamo to be questioned .
I will not however condone US military action in Iraq or Syria. If Obama wants to go to war with IS then prepare for the consequences.
Well the consequences of bombing them are IS killing journalists which would mean you do condone it. Hopefully wee see even more attacks on IS from the US. The cowardly IS savages won't win.
Well the consequences of bombing them are IS killing journalists which would mean you do condone it. Hopefully wee see even more attacks on IS from the US. The cowardly IS savages won't win.
Indeed, the US should step up the attack on IS and maybe now it is time for the RAF to hit this scum hard.
I can see this ending with "boots on the ground" and more bad news...
Comments
If Choudary were an Amercian citizen you can be sure that the IRS would be combing over his income stream...while we here in the UK provide housing and benefits for this odious creature and his family .
Shouldn't he be in the new Caliphate by now drawing housing benefit and living in paradise
When any small child is subjected to religious worship before it can reason for itself that is conditioning.
Whatever the religion.
yes there are a few converts but I suspect the overwhelming majority of the "500" currently fighting Jihad in the middle east are 1st and 2nd generations of immigrants.
It's all it takes if you have been brainwashed >:(
No normal rational thinking person decides to hack a journalists head off because of something totally unrelated that they have seen on tv.
That can only be done if that country actually wants them extradited.
So you should have no problem with the Left or Liberty defending the right of a person accused of any offence to a fair trial. What is indefensible about that?
Do you condone this killing of a journalist?
You'll have loved this forum over the past fortnight then.
I 100% doubt that! What about all the innocents they are slaughtering? Fellow muslims too, no less.
QUOTE=Flibustier;74354388]Half true. Most of the core ISIS fanatics were trained and funded inside Sunni Turkey to topple the Shia Assad with the passive OK from the US (and its lap dog the UK).
Turkey, ruled by Neo Ottoman politicians such as Erdogan and Davutoglu believed they could decide the fate of Syria and take an increased geopolitical role.[/QUOTE]
Comments to be added
Very profound, but completely irrelevant even by your standards - being as most/all of these British IS fighters were converted to extremist views in adulthood.
You're absolutely right, that's exactly what happened. Some people have short memories.
For once, he was completely right.
Do you have personal knowledge of at what age these 500-600 muppets were indoctrinated? If so, I suggest you get in touch with the authorities.
When children are taught to accept any ideology without question, it forms a template and ensures continuity of the cult. Why on earth would the religious be so keen to run our schools otherwise?
Yes I don't want them to kill journalists.
I will not however condone US military action in Iraq or Syria. If Obama wants to go to war with IS then prepare for the consequences.
Of course they don't recognise borders. The idea of nation states is a foreign concept in Islam. Islam preaches one state with one ruler for the muslims.
That's rubbish. Turkey does not want an Islamic State on its borders. They may want to see Assad gone but to think they want an Islamic State to replace him is silly.
I believe that tyrannical and even brutal leadership a la Assad is on a higher scale of political development than chaotic and brutal rebellion. For proof, it is what IS would seek to establish next rather than being able to do that first. Its superiority is in its organisational cohesion. That is an important point for the west to take on board.
I find it almost impossible to believe that people with more of an academic background in international relations than most of us are so naive as to think protesters seeking democracy will generally have more clout than more basic revolutionaries. Where that mix of people exists, the latter will be far more aggressive and obsessive. A balance may not be achievable simply by providing weapons to the former as they will often just be seized by the second group. In fact, are they that naive or creating situations to justify further invasions? Who can be sure?
Whatever, democracy, human rights, majority rule.........these are the high ideals of the west. In the Middle East, it isn't just an either/or - ie those or autocracy. It is those or autocracy or the sort of antediluvian chaos of today.
Trained and funded inside Turkey perhaps but trained and funded "by" Turkey would be a different matter. I accept the distinction may be nuanced to the point of blurred, just as there are significant parts of current Turkey that would not be fairly summarised as simply "Sunni". There is a democratic strand too. Erdogan may have grand plans but he also has a border to protect plus 80 Turkish citizens are being held by IS. What some might regard as his wanting things both ways may be seen by others as a natural cautiousness. We'd be cautious in that position.
Yes, they have their own persistent dogma. But I don't think the invasion of Iraq was helpful. It created the conditions for instability. That, though, was not my main point when I posted my contribution. I was thinking about the American support for the very mixed bunch of people who were opposing Assad including the tub thumping McCain visit to them. A visit which he kept so secret that not even his family knew he was going. That in itself raises questions about the extent of knowledge on the part of others who in real life were elected to govern.
As was shown in Ukraine, he's a loose cannon with very unfortunate friends. There is, I think, a big question about him, Mossad, and IS. They encourage a tiger out of its cage and feed it, then disappear into the shadows when they find it is difficult to control. Like madmen. I genuinely believe that he is fairly well-meaning but borderline insane.
Not a word from the pathetic wimp, and yes he will be counting on the Muslim vote , but he is too stupid to realise that eventually they will NOT vote labour and will vote for their own ie Tower Hamlets . But I guess in the short term he will get Muslim votes , and that is all Labour have ever been interested in , the short term .
Hmm. A very specific response.
Who do you want them to kill?
Just shows how wrong you can be. In fact Ed Miliband tweeted earlier today that: "The killing of James Foley is an appalling act. We will support government both to find the perpetrators and combat the threat of ISIL"
https://twitter.com/Ed_Miliband/status/502040325830238208
The idea that he wouldn't comment for fear of losing Muslim votes was clearly ludicrous.
We are not allowed to interrogate robustly, they have to have tea and biscuits and cigarette breaks. We should send them to Guantanamo to be questioned .
Well the consequences of bombing them are IS killing journalists which would mean you do condone it. Hopefully wee see even more attacks on IS from the US. The cowardly IS savages won't win.
Indeed, the US should step up the attack on IS and maybe now it is time for the RAF to hit this scum hard.
I can see this ending with "boots on the ground" and more bad news...