It turns out that if I supply our local computer repairer with my SSD and a second HDD (I have these brand new ready to go) he will fit them both for me and also sell me Windows 8.1 (fresh reoad) for £185 which is a bit of a special price. He needs the fitting kit too so as soon as that arrives from the US he is good to go. Fitting kit is not cheap - over £50 for just a short bit of wire and two rubber bits only!
I'll keep you posted - I'm really looking forward to getting my new laptop working!
Read carefully: you don't need another copy of Windows 8.1.
However, if someone if prepared to do the job for you, and if the version of W8.1 is legitimate, I suppose it's fair to pay for their expertise.
What's wrong with just using Windows Backup and Restore?
You are indeed correct - windows backup and restore could be used as well instead of macrium - however I have found macrium to be very reliable (and have had problems with windows backup/restore), and I was simply showing all the steps I personally used taking a cautious approach ensuring I could easily backtrack if things went wrong.
Where I say macrium backup - you could substitute windws backup if you like.
The key problem wih SSDs is that the HDD C drive is often bigger than the SSD so you often have to shrink the OS partition to fit the SSD.
I know some backup software claim they can auto-resize partitions if the actual stored data will fit on the new SSD but I have have not personally tested if macrium (or windows restore) can do that.
I preferred to manually do the shrink step first as I knew that would work.
I think the Computer repair shop sees a mug punter here.
One of those USB/SATA connectors cost about £5, you don't need Windows and Macrium Free will do the job, (quickly too, depending on data and I don't see it being a lot because you're installing to SSD limited capacity) so I can't see where the £185 is justified, other than to pay the rent on the shop for the week.
You can use free partition tools to resize if required - I think this might be the case with Macrium, if you clone the disk to replicate the structure you will need the partitions resizing, but if you create the partitions yourself on the destination, you can copy the partition contents and the free space will be adjusted. Obviously, this way the data in the source partition cannot exceed the size of the destination partition.
I use Partition Magic Mini Tool for this resizing either before or after.
Thanks for the input. Firstly the laptop is a HP Envy 17-j103ea. Its really an excellent machine but I will be using if for some quite taxing tasks so before I spend money downloading paid for software I want to give the drives a boost (better to do it now rather than when the drive has more stuff on it).
I'm fairly computer savvy and indeed I'm an electronics engineer but I know how a wrong box ticked or getting someting wrong can cause problems. I wish that I had been given a CD with Windows 8.1 on, but that is less commeon these days.
I think the Computer repair shop sees a mug punter here.
One of those USB/SATA connectors cost about £5, you don't need Windows and Macrium Free will do the job, (quickly too, depending on data and I don't see it being a lot because you're installing to SSD limited capacity) so I can't see where the £185 is justified, other than to pay the rent on the shop for the week.
You can use free partition tools to resize if required - I think this might be the case with Macrium, if you clone the disk to replicate the structure you will need the partitions resizing, but if you create the partitions yourself on the destination, you can copy the partition contents and the free space will be adjusted. Obviously, this way the data in the source partition cannot exceed the size of the destination partition.
I use Partition Magic Mini Tool for this resizing either before or after.
I have half a sneaky feeling that Macrium may not let you go from a large partition to a small partition.
Note that copying C:\ partition to SSD is not sufficient. The MBR (Master Boot Record) has to be copied as well All programs that have a Clone function copy contents+MBR.
Also note that I've just run my copy of Macrium and the Clone function is only appearing for my Disk2. If I select Disk1, Clone disappears! God knows what it is up to.
The alternative method is to Image C:\ to another external HDD, then Restore the Image to the SSD where C:\ partition size is less than SSD size.
(Mini-Tool Partition Wizard can be used to shrink C:\ in advance if necessary.)
Imaging, also saves Contents+MBR.
However, having said all that, Macrium can be a bit of a faff and may appear confusing to beginners.
A much better option is to use Easeus Todo Backup instead.
This has an easy to use Clone Partition Function, allows Partition Resize if the Destination is smaller and has an 'Optimize for SSD' checkbox.
It is advisable to have another working computer in the house (or tablet or smartphone), so that you can still get on the Internet in case of problems.
After you have cloned C:\ to the SSD, the HDD is still marked as an Active bootable drive.
Be sure you are booting from the SSD (Perhaps create a txt file on it 'This is my SSD').
Then use Partition Wizard to set the HDD as Inactive. Right-click the old Active partition and Modify/Set Inactive/Apply).
This prevents you or the system from accidentally booting from it later down the line for any reason.
If you do want to boot from it again, say your SSD fails at a future date, and you can't get back into Windows, then Partition Wizard Bootable CD (scroll down)
Then you can set C:\ back to Active.
I keep this Bootable CD in a drawer as one of my rescue Utils.
You are indeed correct - windows backup and restore could be used as well instead of macrium - however I have found macrium to be very reliable (and have had problems with windows backup/restore), and I was simply showing all the steps I personally used taking a cautious approach ensuring I could easily backtrack if things went wrong.
Where I say macrium backup - you could substitute windws backup if you like.
The key problem wih SSDs is that the HDD C drive is often bigger than the SSD so you often have to shrink the OS partition to fit the SSD.
I know some backup software claim they can auto-resize partitions if the actual stored data will fit on the new SSD but I have have not personally tested if macrium (or windows restore) can do that.
I preferred to manually do the shrink step first as I knew that would work.
What were the exact problems you had with Windows Backup and Restore?
What were the exact problems you had with Windows Backup and Restore?
I do not know exact problem, but I have found a couple of times a restore would get part way through and then just bomb out with an error message saying restore had failed but no obvious indication as to why. I googled the error messages/error codes but that did not help.
Since then I have always used Macrium Reflect and have had no problems. It has worked everytime for me even on a windows 8.1 64 bit/GPT system where others have failed (including Symantec System Recovery which is paid software).
I know it may sound paranoid, but I also backup (not so frequently admittedly) using windows backup and todo easeus (to internal HDD and external HDD) as an extra safety measure.
Thus if my favourite Macrium fails, I still have options, before wiping an starting afresh. However, as I said Macrium has never let me down.
Yes. I also keep multiple Images from Macrium (preferred: it's twice as fast) and Easeus Todo
My W7 Backup and Restore problems (I believe the code in W8 is substantially Identical)
I only make Images, selecting folders and files for backup is too difficult and easy to miss crucial ones.
I found after a few weeks, of clean install, not all partitions were listed.
Some of those listed were 'greyed out'. Backup and restore was trying to be too clever.
I had two Image failures too (on restore, not on saving).
Unable to restore a single partition instead of the whole multi-partition Image.
Cannot verify a saved image.
Cannot Mount a saved image.***
*** Actually that's not strictly true. Microsoft repeatedly mention on-line that you cannot mount their .vhd Images produced by Backup and Restore.
Actually you can, via Disk Management/Attach vhd.
But Googling to find that took a while.
Easeus and Macrium support Mounting with a double-click on the Image file.
So overall, I, very quickly, myself, lost all confidence with Backup and Restore.
I bet they don't fix it for W9 either.
It is advisable to have another working computer in the house (or tablet or smartphone), so that you can still get on the Internet in case of problems.
After you have cloned C:\ to the SSD, the HDD is still marked as an Active bootable drive.
Be sure you are booting from the SSD (Perhaps create a txt file on it 'This is my SSD').
Then use Partition Wizard to set the HDD as Inactive. Right-click the old Active partition and Modify/Set Inactive/Apply).
This prevents you or the system from accidentally booting from it later down the line for any reason.
If you do want to boot from it again, say your SSD fails at a future date, and you can't get back into Windows, then Partition Wizard Bootable CD (scroll down)
Then you can set C:\ back to Active.
I keep this Bootable CD in a drawer as one of my rescue Utils.
Good advice.
Personally I would remove HDD altogether and put away safe in case ssd fails and not easy to recover
At least you have a working backup.
Of course you would need a new HDD as bulk storage
If you can't afford new HDD, I would hide OS partition on old HDD so you do not accidentally mess it up. Also windows will not get confused.
I'm wondering if something like the free version of Macrium Reflect would do the job?
Use the Disk Clone function to clone the existing hard drive onto the new drive. Then once complete set the BIOS to boot off the new drive. Test thoroughly and once satisfied it all works as expected zap the old drive and re-use it for data storage.
There are other similar bits of software available. Just I am most familiar with Macrium as I use it myself to back-up my system.
just make the win 8 memory stick recovery. as built in. will save to a 16g stick. this reinstalls factory default directly from the putting stick in usb socket and booting computer from it .......
macrium will copy this same recovery file onto 4 dvds. use the latest edition of macrium to support the new signed booting system. also dont forget to make the additional macrium recovery disc which is needed to reinstall from the dvds if windows goes kaput .....
most problems should be solvable using either system restore or the win 8 specific windows reset .....
i have not tried reinstalling win8 from macrium made recovery dvds ! note that macrium free edition only allows copying images back to the original file location . so you would have to plug in the memory stick then use the macrium recovery disk to copy the 4 backup dvds you made previously back onto the memory stick. then you remove the macrium resuce disk and boot computer directly from the stick ......
just make the win 8 memory stick recovery. as built in. will save to a 16g stick. this reinstalls factory default directly from the putting stick in usb socket and booting computer from it .......
macrium will copy this same recovery file onto 4 dvds. use the latest edition of macrium to support the new signed booting system. also dont forget to make the additional macrium recovery disc which is needed to reinstall from the dvds if windows goes kaput .....
most problems should be solvable using either system restore or the win 8 specific windows reset .....
I am not sure what you are really saying here. I think this might mislead some people as to how to use Macrium who have not used it before.
The macrium recovery software will easily fit on 1 dvd or a 4gb usb stick. If you make a backup of the "barebones" windows os image, it may well need 4 dvds.
However, even dvds are not the most reliable backup media, and generally the best option is to backup the image to an external hard drive attached to USB port or a hdd on a local area network.
The question as to whether you use windows based (or OEM supplied) recovery systems, which will normally solve any issues, or not is simply a matter of choice.
What Macrium and similar do (even windows backup and restore) is allow you to snapshot the whole OS drive as it is today, and backup everything including apps and data etc. This when you restore, yo do not have to go through a major exercise updating windows, virus checkers, reinstalling apps (and setting all your personal preferences etc).
The OP of this thread was wanting to buy a new W8 license so he could put an SSD in instead of an HDD. He was not having problems per se but the general advice falls into two camps:
1) use windows recovery partition (or OEM based one) to set up SSD as if PC is brand new.
2) use macrium or similar to "clone" hdd to SSD (or use backup./restore methods etc) which avoids reinstallation issues etc.
The key point of this thread is that it is not necessary to buy a new license if you replace the HDD with an new SSD. This is a perfectly legal activity under the terms of the windows 8 license (it would violate terms and conditions to clone to another PC as well though).
It seems the OP is electing to pay somebody to do this, even though most of the responses have said he does not need to do this.
I am sure the OP would find if he takes a few hours out before he parts with his money and learns how to use backup software confidently, he might be willing to take risk and follow advice in this thread.
However, at the end of the day, it is his choice and he has to be comfortable with his own decisions.
i have not tried reinstalling win8 from macrium made recovery dvds ! note that macrium free edition only allows copying images back to the original file location . so you would have to plug in the memory stick then use the macrium recovery disk to copy the 4 backup dvds you made previously back onto the memory stick. then you remove the macrium resuce disk and boot computer directly from the stick ......
I'm sorry, not wishing to offend you but this is completely wrong.
I'm afraid you have completely misinterpreted what "original location" means.
In Macrium free version, you can only recover back to a hard drive on the same PC as the one you started with. That's what they mean by same location. In most cases that also means to the same hard disk (or new one if the old one has failed). If you are lucky to have two hard drives, you can restore to either.
With paid versions, you can also recover to other (even non-similar) PCs and software selects drivers appropriate for new PC. Very few home users would normally need such power
How and where you store backup files is totally irrelevant.
Also, the comment about booting from a usb boot stick is also misleading. You only use the boot stick to boot into recovery environment - this can be a linux or a pre-windows recovery environment.
In general, you cannot normally boot into full windows from a usb stick. There is an advanced feature "Windows to Go" but that is a whole new subject.
Just want to say thanks for the comments - and I'm actually feeling more positive about migrating 8.1 myself. As soon as the SSD connection arrives from the US I'll make a proper start.
Comments
Read carefully: you don't need another copy of Windows 8.1.
However, if someone if prepared to do the job for you, and if the version of W8.1 is legitimate, I suppose it's fair to pay for their expertise.
You are indeed correct - windows backup and restore could be used as well instead of macrium - however I have found macrium to be very reliable (and have had problems with windows backup/restore), and I was simply showing all the steps I personally used taking a cautious approach ensuring I could easily backtrack if things went wrong.
Where I say macrium backup - you could substitute windws backup if you like.
The key problem wih SSDs is that the HDD C drive is often bigger than the SSD so you often have to shrink the OS partition to fit the SSD.
I know some backup software claim they can auto-resize partitions if the actual stored data will fit on the new SSD but I have have not personally tested if macrium (or windows restore) can do that.
I preferred to manually do the shrink step first as I knew that would work.
One of those USB/SATA connectors cost about £5, you don't need Windows and Macrium Free will do the job, (quickly too, depending on data and I don't see it being a lot because you're installing to SSD limited capacity) so I can't see where the £185 is justified, other than to pay the rent on the shop for the week.
You can use free partition tools to resize if required - I think this might be the case with Macrium, if you clone the disk to replicate the structure you will need the partitions resizing, but if you create the partitions yourself on the destination, you can copy the partition contents and the free space will be adjusted. Obviously, this way the data in the source partition cannot exceed the size of the destination partition.
I use Partition Magic Mini Tool for this resizing either before or after.
I'm fairly computer savvy and indeed I'm an electronics engineer but I know how a wrong box ticked or getting someting wrong can cause problems. I wish that I had been given a CD with Windows 8.1 on, but that is less commeon these days.
As to the wire it is this http://www.newmodeus.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2_5&products_id=542
which I can't find anywhere else - neither can other people seemingly.
I'll get there in the end!
http://www.amazon.co.uk/MicroStorage-KIT351-Cable-Series-Warranty/dp/B00FYLPZXM
Yes, that's what I need - with those two rubber buffers. Expensive aren't they.
I have half a sneaky feeling that Macrium may not let you go from a large partition to a small partition.
Note that copying C:\ partition to SSD is not sufficient. The MBR (Master Boot Record) has to be copied as well All programs that have a Clone function copy contents+MBR.
Also note that I've just run my copy of Macrium and the Clone function is only appearing for my Disk2. If I select Disk1, Clone disappears! God knows what it is up to.
The alternative method is to Image C:\ to another external HDD, then Restore the Image to the SSD where C:\ partition size is less than SSD size.
(Mini-Tool Partition Wizard can be used to shrink C:\ in advance if necessary.)
Imaging, also saves Contents+MBR.
However, having said all that, Macrium can be a bit of a faff and may appear confusing to beginners.
A much better option is to use Easeus Todo Backup instead.
This has an easy to use Clone Partition Function, allows Partition Resize if the Destination is smaller and has an 'Optimize for SSD' checkbox.
It is advisable to have another working computer in the house (or tablet or smartphone), so that you can still get on the Internet in case of problems.
After you have cloned C:\ to the SSD, the HDD is still marked as an Active bootable drive.
Be sure you are booting from the SSD (Perhaps create a txt file on it 'This is my SSD').
Then use Partition Wizard to set the HDD as Inactive. Right-click the old Active partition and Modify/Set Inactive/Apply).
This prevents you or the system from accidentally booting from it later down the line for any reason.
If you do want to boot from it again, say your SSD fails at a future date, and you can't get back into Windows, then Partition Wizard Bootable CD (scroll down)
Then you can set C:\ back to Active.
I keep this Bootable CD in a drawer as one of my rescue Utils.
I do not know exact problem, but I have found a couple of times a restore would get part way through and then just bomb out with an error message saying restore had failed but no obvious indication as to why. I googled the error messages/error codes but that did not help.
Since then I have always used Macrium Reflect and have had no problems. It has worked everytime for me even on a windows 8.1 64 bit/GPT system where others have failed (including Symantec System Recovery which is paid software).
I know it may sound paranoid, but I also backup (not so frequently admittedly) using windows backup and todo easeus (to internal HDD and external HDD) as an extra safety measure.
Thus if my favourite Macrium fails, I still have options, before wiping an starting afresh. However, as I said Macrium has never let me down.
My W7 Backup and Restore problems (I believe the code in W8 is substantially Identical)
I only make Images, selecting folders and files for backup is too difficult and easy to miss crucial ones.
I found after a few weeks, of clean install, not all partitions were listed.
Some of those listed were 'greyed out'. Backup and restore was trying to be too clever.
I had two Image failures too (on restore, not on saving).
Unable to restore a single partition instead of the whole multi-partition Image.
Cannot verify a saved image.
Cannot Mount a saved image.***
*** Actually that's not strictly true. Microsoft repeatedly mention on-line that you cannot mount their .vhd Images produced by Backup and Restore.
Actually you can, via Disk Management/Attach vhd.
But Googling to find that took a while.
Easeus and Macrium support Mounting with a double-click on the Image file.
So overall, I, very quickly, myself, lost all confidence with Backup and Restore.
I bet they don't fix it for W9 either.
Lots of things Windows did or won't do there's no need to fix, they can sell you an app. W9 might even be just an OS *cough* ;-)
Good advice.
Personally I would remove HDD altogether and put away safe in case ssd fails and not easy to recover
At least you have a working backup.
Of course you would need a new HDD as bulk storage
If you can't afford new HDD, I would hide OS partition on old HDD so you do not accidentally mess it up. Also windows will not get confused.
just make the win 8 memory stick recovery. as built in. will save to a 16g stick. this reinstalls factory default directly from the putting stick in usb socket and booting computer from it .......
macrium will copy this same recovery file onto 4 dvds. use the latest edition of macrium to support the new signed booting system. also dont forget to make the additional macrium recovery disc which is needed to reinstall from the dvds if windows goes kaput .....
most problems should be solvable using either system restore or the win 8 specific windows reset .....
I am not sure what you are really saying here. I think this might mislead some people as to how to use Macrium who have not used it before.
The macrium recovery software will easily fit on 1 dvd or a 4gb usb stick. If you make a backup of the "barebones" windows os image, it may well need 4 dvds.
However, even dvds are not the most reliable backup media, and generally the best option is to backup the image to an external hard drive attached to USB port or a hdd on a local area network.
The question as to whether you use windows based (or OEM supplied) recovery systems, which will normally solve any issues, or not is simply a matter of choice.
What Macrium and similar do (even windows backup and restore) is allow you to snapshot the whole OS drive as it is today, and backup everything including apps and data etc. This when you restore, yo do not have to go through a major exercise updating windows, virus checkers, reinstalling apps (and setting all your personal preferences etc).
The OP of this thread was wanting to buy a new W8 license so he could put an SSD in instead of an HDD. He was not having problems per se but the general advice falls into two camps:
1) use windows recovery partition (or OEM based one) to set up SSD as if PC is brand new.
2) use macrium or similar to "clone" hdd to SSD (or use backup./restore methods etc) which avoids reinstallation issues etc.
The key point of this thread is that it is not necessary to buy a new license if you replace the HDD with an new SSD. This is a perfectly legal activity under the terms of the windows 8 license (it would violate terms and conditions to clone to another PC as well though).
It seems the OP is electing to pay somebody to do this, even though most of the responses have said he does not need to do this.
I am sure the OP would find if he takes a few hours out before he parts with his money and learns how to use backup software confidently, he might be willing to take risk and follow advice in this thread.
However, at the end of the day, it is his choice and he has to be comfortable with his own decisions.
I'm sorry, not wishing to offend you but this is completely wrong.
I'm afraid you have completely misinterpreted what "original location" means.
In Macrium free version, you can only recover back to a hard drive on the same PC as the one you started with. That's what they mean by same location. In most cases that also means to the same hard disk (or new one if the old one has failed). If you are lucky to have two hard drives, you can restore to either.
With paid versions, you can also recover to other (even non-similar) PCs and software selects drivers appropriate for new PC. Very few home users would normally need such power
How and where you store backup files is totally irrelevant.
Also, the comment about booting from a usb boot stick is also misleading. You only use the boot stick to boot into recovery environment - this can be a linux or a pre-windows recovery environment.
In general, you cannot normally boot into full windows from a usb stick. There is an advanced feature "Windows to Go" but that is a whole new subject.