The argument for music is weak, gaming and online connections are fast becoming synonymous with each other. Music is a completely different form of media.
For example, if you disconnected from PSN and play on your PS3 solely offline you would miss out on all those free games, if you've been a regular subscriber to PS+ for any amount of time and stopped paying Sony you would lose an absolute shedload of content from your HDD. There would be no game patches (which have proven vital in many cases) or access to countless amounts of exclusive digital content, it soon becomes quite glaringly obvious that internet access is a vital component to modern gaming and now a basic connection is a requirement (doesn't have to be fast, can even be mobile phone), and the reality is, it has been now for some time anyway.
Theres currently an unconfirmed rumour that you may not be able to buy a 2nd hand XboxOne, when microsoft was contacted they did not have any information
If it's the case, then that probably goes some way to accounting for non user-replaceable HDs, I'd guess that it might not be possible to delete an owner's profile easily (a DRM and anti-theft feature?) and that they haven't decided whether wiping it can be done remotely or through 'participating retailers'.
The electricity argument is perfectly relevant as it's a bill that is required to make use of these machines. The internet is another one that we ALL (as in every one of us with an opinion on the internet) already pay for and make use of for our current machines. It's not 2001 anymore and internet is stable, most parts of the UK have reliable and fast fibre optic connections.
I will defend consumer rights all the way and you have the right to choose what you buy. Both Sony and MS are offering different visions, go for what suits you and stop worrying about what anyone else is thinking. All this jumping on the backs of people who are not put off by the requirements for X1 and implying they are fanboys or working for MS is utterly ridiculous.
It's not relevant, If I stop paying my electric I won't be eating. With internet It's not built into every day life like electric,gas, Maybe it's to hard to imagine for you, but millions manage there daily life's without the internet. Millions also enjoyed 360 and PS3 without internet, again something you seem to thinks is impossible. I remember myself completing red dead redemption, GTA 4, gears of war 1-2, many lego games all without access to the internet and still enjoying my time.
Do you ever ever read the things you type and do proper research ? You might be more respected if it was not for statements like this. totally inaccurate ones based on nothing but your assumptions, fibre has cost way more the projected by the government and BT. theirs no chance of meeting 2015 targets, access to fibre broadband Is no way accessible in most parts of UK, I mean already been pointed out in your own area of living only one exchange has been done.
You need stop looking at it like everyone just wanting to hate, or they don't get it, or their a 'fanboy' as For most in UK the internet is not stable, It's not something they have all the time, It's not a necessity for most. For what could of potentially been there favorite console brand, now they faced with something that's anti consumer, and their unhappy, why can't you just accept this, instead downplaying them, It's insanely obvious that this is not regular fanboy talk etc, this is genuine hate from some MS's biggest fans, that does not show a 'next gen' leap, this shows misguided decision by MS, who though most of the customer would bend over and take it dry. Thankfully this has not happened.
The electricity argument is perfectly relevant as it's a bill that is required to make use of these machines. The internet is another one that we ALL (as in every one of us with an opinion on the internet) already pay for and make use of for our current machines. It's not 2001 anymore and internet is stable, most parts of the UK have reliable and fast fibre optic connections.
The difference is electricity is a necessity for gaming, an internet connection is not always necessary so why make it a necessity. At the moment its a case of if the power goes out I cant use my console at all, if the internet goes out I can use half my console. With the Xbox 1 whether its the power that goes out or the internet that goes out the end result is the same, the machine stops working.
For me what it comes down to is why do I need to have an internet connection to play a game which does not utilise any online features.
For example, if you disconnected from PSN and play on your PS3 solely offline you would miss out on all those free games, if you've been a regular subscriber to PS+ for any amount of time and stopped paying Sony you would lose an absolute shedload of content from your HDD.
Are you comparing PS+, a rental service to Xbox 1?
It's not relevant, If I stop paying my electric I won't be eating. With internet It's not built into every day life like electric,gas, Maybe it's to hard to imagine for you, but millions manage there daily life's without the internet. Millions also enjoyed 360 and PS3 without internet, again something you seem to thinks is impossible. I remember myself completing red dead redemption, GTA 4, gears of war 1-2, many lego games all without access to the internet and still enjoying my time.
Do you ever ever read the things you type and do proper research ? You might be more respected if it was not for statements like this. totally inaccurate ones based on nothing but your assumptions, fibre has cost way more the projected by the government and BT. theirs no chance of meeting 2015 targets, access to fibre broadband Is no way accessible in most parts of UK, I mean already been pointed out in your own area of living only one exchange has been done.
You need stop looking at it like everyone just wanting to hate, or they don't get it, or their a 'fanboy' as For most in UK the internet is not stable, It's not something they have all the time, It's not a necessity for most. For what could of potentially been there favorite console brand, now they faced with something that's anti consumer, and their unhappy, why can't you just accept this, instead downplaying them, It's insanely obvious that this is not regular fanboy talk etc, this is genuine hate from some MS's biggest fans, that does not show a 'next gen' leap, this shows misguided decision by MS, who though most of the customer would bend over and take it dry. Thankfully this has not happened.
It IS relevant, there are requirements to gaming other than needing a console and a TV and some of these are out of our direct control. My point is perfectly valid, BB is stable and damn near essential to make the most of current gen machines let alone next-gen. Think without online you would have no XBLA or PSN games, Steam would not exist, get with the bloody times!!
I accept if I am wrong in my assumptions around fibre optic BB, I live in NORFOLK so forgive me for thinking I am not at the cutting edge of British Telecommunication technology yet even I have an 80MB connection. Regardless, you don't need fibre optic, you don't even need an online connection faster than what is needed for 360, hell you don't even need a connection if you have a mobile phone.
I am not mistaking anything for something it is not and there is a LOT of hate going around at present. I am not denying there is disappointment from some Xbox fans but the most vocal of the hate brigade appear to sit firmly in the Sony camp.
You don't see me in the PS4 forums posting negative news articles, quizzing why anyone is thinking about buying one or insinuating they area fanboy/working for Sony do you? So why have a jab at me?? I am only trying to bring balance and reason to the topic. There's a LOT of fine print that people have not read for either console, but particularly the PS4 and it DRM policies which allow third parties to set their own rules meaning, for example, if EA don't want you to play their game without signing into Origin first then...they can.
The "Family share" option which Phil Spencer hinted at being relaxed and easily exploitable sounds like a brilliant way to share games among an X1 friendlist "family group". Not everything is doom and gloom, quite the opposite!
It IS relevant, there are requirements to gaming other than needing a console and a TV and some of these are out of our direct control. My point is perfectly valid, BB is stable and damn near essential to make the most of current gen machines let alone next-gen. Think without online you would have no XBLA or PSN games, Steam would not exist, get with the bloody times!!
Your missing the point people are making entirely. Console can work without internet, they can't work with electricity that is fact.
Some people simply can't, broadband is not like you imagine all over the country. In some places It can down for hours.The fact is the X1 could work fine without internet for a decade, and the only game I would unable to play would be a game that's poorly made and needs fix day one. Something i can't see bothering me. i might not get as much out not connecting, however what you fail to understand is, all I care about is GAMES!, because I'm gamer, as i long as get play games, i don't care about the couple extra hours.
I accept if I am wrong in my assumptions around fibre optic BB, I live in NORFOLK so forgive me for thinking I am not at the cutting edge of British Telecommunication technology yet even I have an 80MB connection. Regardless, you don't need fibre optic, you don't even need an online connection faster than what is needed for 360, hell you don't even need a connection if you have a mobile phone.
Then why state something that's totally incorrect, you typed it and obviously had no evidence to support such claims, my point is if your going to go around belittling people and making them out to be haters least try to be factual.
I am not mistaking anything for something it is not and there is a LOT of hate going around at present. I am not denying there is disappointment from some Xbox fans but the most vocal of the hate brigade appear to sit firmly in the Sony camp.
There's always going to be fan boy's theirs no more than usual. the majority of media backlash is simply down to 24 hour connection and used games policies. The general consensus, is the X1 has amazing lineup at launch and more to come, it has some amazing features. Obviously bit more divided however i feel kinect could be amazing for games.
You don't see me in the PS4 forums posting negative news articles, quizzing why anyone is thinking about buying one or insinuating they area fanboy/working for Sony do you? So why have a jab at me?? I am only trying to bring balance and reason to the topic. There's a LOT of fine print that people have not read for either console, but particularly the PS4 and it DRM policies which allow third parties to set their own rules meaning, for example, if EA don't want you to play their game without signing into Origin first then...they can.
The reasons are above, you being questioned and corrected because your statements continuously contain incorrect information that is simply misguiding. You also have continuously made baffling comparisons justifying the anti consumer policies that can't make sense no matter how hard you try twist them into something good.
Also If there was negative news towards Ps4 and I see it, around and not posted here I would be posting it, as I don't think like your perspective, news is news, your just making yourself sound worse by implying we shouldn't be reporting bad news. I also stated that very example in first thread of Sony giving DRM control to publishers, I think it's likely possibility.
The "Family share" option which Phil Spencer hinted at being relaxed and easily exploitable sounds like a brilliant way to share games among an X1 friendlist "family group". Not everything is doom and gloom, quite the opposite!
The fact is this does not for GAMERS replace the ability to walk into CEX and sell there game or as for recent news potentially the system. So how do you response to that ? Can you seriously like everything else justify the potential outcome not being able to sell your £429 console ?
I haven't posted any misguiding information or infactual statements apart from my misguided fibe-optic presumptions and if you knew anything about my area you'd forgive me for that. I live in one of the most rural parts of the UK.... even so, the majority of this country does have access to reliable broadband.
Jesso, there is more than one side to a story, you are assuming what is right for YOU is right for everyone and that is simply not so, this is the point I am trying to make. You're asking me justify this and justify that but I can only speak for myself. I've said quite clearly that people have a choice in what they buy, it's up to YOU, don't like the X1 don't buy it! Other people don't seem to understand this concept. Tell me, what does it have to do with anyone else (regardless of their own personal situation) what console I or someone else chooses to buy? It's not that I'm misinterpreting this personal quizzing as hate, more than I don't understand what it has to do with anything.
You are right out about the games, that's what I care about and that's precisely why these requirements don't put me off, because the exclusive line-up is nothing short of brilliant, if that wasn't the case I'd be picking the PS4 I can promise you.
I haven't posted any misguiding information or infactual statements apart from my misguided fibe-optic presumptions and if you knew anything about my area you'd forgive me for that. I live in one of the most rural parts of the UK.... even so, the majority of this country does have access to reliable broadband.
Jesso, there is more than one side to a story, you are assuming what is right for YOU is right for everyone and that is simply not so, this is the point I am trying to make. You're asking me justify this and justify that but I can only speak for myself. I've said quite clearly that people have a choice in what they buy, it's up to YOU, don't like the X1 don't buy it! Other people don't seem to understand this concept. Tell me, what does it have to do with anyone else (regardless of their own personal situation) what console I or someone else chooses to buy? It's not that I'm misinterpreting this personal quizzing as hate, more than I don't understand what it has to do with anything.
You are right out about the games, that's what I care about and that's precisely why these requirements don't put me off, because the exclusive line-up is nothing short of brilliant, if that wasn't the case I'd be picking the PS4 I can promise you.
referring to the bit in bold-
It leads to the end of gaming as we know it. By purchasing an Xbox One the consumers are validating Microsofts anti consumer policies and giving them a reason to keep screwing over the consumer.
Let me explain how this works in the real world. Before the Xbox came out, the PC, PlayStation and Nintendo gaming devices allowed you to play online for free.
When Xbox entered the market it started charging for the privilege. At the time it was ridiculed and pointless (as bandwidth costs are very low). Now Xbox Live has been validated by the consumer and the Playstation brand is now following the model. Nintendo will probably be next.
If the policies microsoft have implemented become successful then you can kiss goodbye to a DVD drive next gen/ It's likely the xbox will impose even stricter restrictions locking you in to their new console, and Sony and Nintendo will only follow suit meaning the gaming industry will be ruined.
LOL wow, MS bring about the end of gaming as we know it!
That is simply not true, if there is a market for people who care so much about physical copies, offline play then it will be catered for just as Sony is taking advantage of now. There was nothing stopping them from imposing the same restrictions as X1, but they chose not to. It's like saying the SteamBox will do the same because that will require an internet connection too and you won't be able to sell, trade or lend your games using this device either.
This whole "do the right thing for the greater good of gamer freedom" is the biggest load of bollocks out there because the irony of the situation is we have a group of people so fiercely opposed to change that anyone publicly supporting Microsoft is chastised by the media and so called games fans for having their own opinion in what they believe is better suited for the greater good of the industry.
Take Cliff Bleszinski's recent twitter comments, stating how the next-generation of games and high budget AAA titles cannot and will not support a thriving preowned market, this is why we are fast seeing so many people losing jobs in the industry, so many smaller developers closing shop and why we are seeing such radical changes in the way games are distributed, from digital distribution, micro-transactions, DLC and the rise of F2P. It's time to move on and accept this rather than only care about OUR rights and what we SHOULD be entitled to yet all the while expecting the games to get bigger and better while still paying the same prices as before..something has to give and it will do if a plan is not put into place, which MS appear to have done.
I think it's quite clear once you cut through the bullshit which company has lavished their first party line-up with extremely high budgets, and this is a direct result of the restrictions that have been put into place to safeguard the publishers/developers from loss of profits through piracy and the pre-owned market.
LOL wow, MS bring about the end of gaming as we know it!
That is simply not true, if there is a market for people who care so much about physical copies, offline play then it will be catered for just as Sony is taking advantage of now. There was nothing stopping them from imposing the same restrictions as X1, but they chose not to. It's like saying the SteamBox will do the same because that will require an internet connection too and you won't be able to sell, trade or lend your games using this device either.
This whole "do the right thing for the greater good of gamer freedom" is the biggest load of bollocks out there because the irony of the situation is we have a group of people so fiercely opposed to change that anyone publicly supporting Microsoft is chastised by the media and so called games fans for having their own opinion in what they believe is better suited for the greater good of the industry.
Take Cliff Bleszinski's recent twitter comments, stating how the next-generation of games and high budget AAA titles cannot and will not support a thriving preowned market, this is why we are fast seeing so many people losing jobs in the industry, so many smaller developers closing shop and why we are seeing such radical changes in the way games are distributed, from digital distribution, micro-transactions, DLC and the rise of F2P. It's time to move on and accept this rather than only care about OUR rights and what we SHOULD be entitled to yet all the while expecting the games to get bigger and better while still paying the same prices as before..something has to give and it will do if a plan is not put into place, which MS appear to have done.
I think it's quite clear once you cut through the bullshit which company has lavished their first party line-up with extremely high budgets, and this is a direct result of the restrictions that have been put into place to safeguard the publishers/developers from loss of profits through piracy and the pre-owned market.
We have already seen how much EA as a publisher have tried and failed to control the market. And now we have Microsoft trying to do the same. The consumers don't like it and at least some developers don't like it.
With out consumers publishers have no one to sell to. And without developers they have nothing to sell. Publishers are just middle men and add nothing to the synergy between developers and consumers. MS and the likes of EA need to realise that we as consumers pay their salaries and they need to listen to us or they will go under. Poor service and commercial arrogance are not acceptable these days.
And the two developers you choose to highlight your point are complete exceptions to the rule, CD Projekt are famous for having such an anti-DRM policy that they have been quoted as saying "we don't care that people pirate our games", hardly representative of how most development studios feel is it? yet despite their strong stance, it doesn't stop them from developing on X1 does it...
Oddworld devs have well publicised bad blood with MS due to the lack of self-publishing rule for XBLA/X1 and a previous fall-out over Stranger's Wrath HD.
I'm pretty much done with this topic on this board in general now. I'm not for one moment suggesting the restrictions we see are not a very real concern for some people (like Jesso for instance) or that it's a good thing in terms of convenience and ownership rights, but there has to be some kind of give and take if we want the next-gen to truly take off. All I'm hearing is "me me me" and TBH this has been a long time coming, it's gonna happen one way or the other despite what Sony says (who are literally only guaranteeing no DRM restrictions on first party titles and no doubt reserve the right to change this if/when they see fit).
I'm pretty much done with this topic on this board in general now. I'm not for one moment suggesting the restrictions we see are not a very real concern for some people (like Jesso for instance) or that it's a good thing in terms of convenience and ownership rights, but there has to be some kind of give and take if we want the next-gen to truly take off. All I'm hearing is "me me me" and TBH this has been a long time coming, it's gonna happen one way or the other despite what Sony says (who are literally only guaranteeing no DRM restrictions on first party titles and no doubt reserve the right to change this if/when they see fit).
It may be coming but the way Microsoft are handling it is laughable. Trust me. I'm pro digital all the way thanks to Steam. The Xbox's DRM is monstrous though. It's just so laughably bad and nothing compared to Steam.
I mean there's news flying around you will lose access to all your Xbox One games if you got banned from Xbox Live. And before you say 'oh I won't get banned it won't affect me'. Just think about it for a second. You literally have no ownership of your games. You could turn round and say the same about Steam. But here's the thing. Steam is a free platform. I'm not paying an online subscription. The sales can be mega cheap even on AAA games. The Xbox One is much more expensive to maintain.
Another thing with their DRM is they're not even charging games at a lower price. They're charging games the same price as PS4. That is hilarious because why on earth would you pick Xbox One games where MS can take them away from you over PS4 games where Sony provides you full ownership.
Why are you defending a company who doesn't give a damn about you is questionable. If Sony did the same thing as MS I would be all over them as well. Trust me I'm not really that much of a fan of the PS4. It seems like an upgraded PS3 with social aspects but the way Sony have put their customers first is fantastic. It really makes me wanna buy their console because of their attitude. And this is coming from someone who has a good connection, purchases games new and never trades in.
LOL wow, MS bring about the end of gaming as we know it!
That is simply not true, if there is a market for people who care so much about physical copies, offline play then it will be catered for just as Sony is taking advantage of now. There was nothing stopping them from imposing the same restrictions as X1, but they chose not to. It's like saying the SteamBox will do the same because that will require an internet connection too and you won't be able to sell, trade or lend your games using this device either.
This whole "do the right thing for the greater good of gamer freedom" is the biggest load of bollocks out there because the irony of the situation is we have a group of people so fiercely opposed to change that anyone publicly supporting Microsoft is chastised by the media and so called games fans for having their own opinion in what they believe is better suited for the greater good of the industry.
Take Cliff Bleszinski's recent twitter comments, stating how the next-generation of games and high budget AAA titles cannot and will not support a thriving preowned market, this is why we are fast seeing so many people losing jobs in the industry, so many smaller developers closing shop and why we are seeing such radical changes in the way games are distributed, from digital distribution, micro-transactions, DLC and the rise of F2P. It's time to move on and accept this rather than only care about OUR rights and what we SHOULD be entitled to yet all the while expecting the games to get bigger and better while still paying the same prices as before..something has to give and it will do if a plan is not put into place, which MS appear to have done.
I think it's quite clear once you cut through the bullshit which company has lavished their first party line-up with extremely high budgets, and this is a direct result of the restrictions that have been put into place to safeguard the publishers/developers from loss of profits through piracy and the pre-owned market.
Cliffy B, A guy paid by microsoft. The same guy who in response to the always on connectivity said "Europe, it's 2013. Sort your ****ing internet connection out".
Ah that guy. I'm sorry but this guy is just saying what Microsoft is saying and you're eating it up. Used games don't affect the industry at all. It's publishers who can't budget.
No other industry has decided to block used sales of physical goods or force their customers to use an internet connection.
Should we accept it when the DVD publishers start to block used dvd sales because they say they're losing money.
You've become a shill mate. And tbh i'm not a Sony fan either. But it's a hell of a better alternative to Microsoft for core gamers right now.
The electricity and internet argument is pretty poor too. Use your mobile if your net goes down? Not all networks allow tethering. Id say the majority probably dont. So that's a im alright jack statement. A few probably have portable generators so they could say they could say they are ok for offline play if electric goes out. Its a silly comparison.
Wanted to hear how theyve taken features forward. Achievements. Cross game chat etc. Have they? For me they brought these things to the table and I expected an expansion but dont think ive heard of anything? Other than the cloud. Sony have copied this as xgc is on ps4 and taken it on to this share scenario. Havw sony surpassed the live features? I really dont know
Take Cliff Bleszinski's recent twitter comments, stating how the next-generation of games and high budget AAA titles cannot and will not support a thriving preowned market, this is why we are fast seeing so many people losing jobs in the industry, so many smaller developers closing shop and why we are seeing such radical changes in the way games are distributed, from digital distribution, micro-transactions, DLC and the rise of F2P. It's time to move on and accept this rather than only care about OUR rights and what we SHOULD be entitled to yet all the while expecting the games to get bigger and better while still paying the same prices as before..something has to give and it will do if a plan is not put into place, which MS appear to have done.
I think it's quite clear once you cut through the bullshit which company has lavished their first party line-up with extremely high budgets, and this is a direct result of the restrictions that have been put into place to safeguard the publishers/developers from loss of profits through piracy and the pre-owned market.
Cliffy B is an idiot, he want to blame the used market for poorly managed developers and publishers, I have used the Tomb Raider example before and to me this is a good example of the problem the industry has at the moment, they expected sales to be much higher than they will ever likely achieve and then when it fails they blame used games. If a game can set sales records for the franchise and still fail to make money who is at fault, the publisher for over estimating sales expectations and budgeting for that over estimation or the used market?
There are some valid arguments here that i will take into consideration before i finalize my purchase. I'm still not 100% on what I'm going to do yet, and i still have a few months to make up my mind.
It's nice to see that there are people on here that can have reasoned debate without talking bulls***, calling people 'fanboys' or accusing them of being employees of Microsoft.
Wanted to hear how theyve taken features forward. Achievements. Cross game chat etc. Have they?
Yes Gilly they have.
Xbox One Achievements
Today we talked about some of the changes to the new achievements system coming with Xbox One. We just got done hearing from Chad Gibson, Principle Group Program manager for Xbox Live Gaming features and Mike Lavin, Sr. Global Product Marketing manager for Xbox Live on our live broadcast. This morning, we asked Cierra McDonald to explain some of the achievement changes in greater detail for us. Here is what she wrote for you guys
Ahoy! My name is Cierra McDonald. I’m from Chicago, I’m an Illini (I-L-L!!!), and most pertinently, I’m the Program Manager for the Xbox Live Achievements service. My love of gaming started as a wee child, playing Super Mario Bros. at home and joining friends on Altered Beast and Contra at the local arcade. My family’s team sport is Boggle. And apropos of nothing, I once shattered my elbow – or as my surgeon once put it, it’s like Humpty Dumpty fell onto a diamond surface. Fun facts!
Achievements are like a delicious gravy (or a fudge sauce, for the more dessert-minded) on top of a developer’s tasty meal of a game. Playing the game is fun by itself; and achievements add an extra layer of discovery, exploration, and accomplishment that reinforces the natural enjoyment of the gameplay. For Xbox One, my team (an incredible group of smart, hardworking folks) and I have rebuilt the Achievements system to be more powerful and more flexible so that developers and publishers can deliver more interesting, complex, and fulfilling goals and rewards to you. What exactly does that mean?
Let’s start with what you get.
Xbox blazed the trail back in 2005 by introducing Xbox Live Achievements as a metagame whose cumulative score – Gamerscore – spans across games on every Xbox Live platform. Many of today’s gaming systems followed our model and now offer achievements or badges as well. With Xbox One, we are once again breaking the mold and this time, we want consumers to reap more tangible benefits. In addition to Gamerscore, which will remain as a critical part of the Xbox gaming experience (and yes, your Gamerscore from Xbox 360 will carry forward to Xbox One – there’s only ONE Gamerscore (see what I did there?)), consumers can now unlock digital artwork, new maps, unlockable characters, and temporary stat boosts via achievements. And this is not limited to games! Other Xbox One applications such as video and music apps can now use Achievements to bring you awesome sneak peek content, early access, or subscription extensions. Only games will give you Gamerscore.
Cool, you can earn cool stuff with Xbox LIVE Achievements. Let’s talk about how they work.
There are now two types of Achievements: achievements and challenges. An achievement is probably already familiar. There’s a goal or activity you must accomplish and a reward that you receive upon completion. You can unlock an achievement at any time, be it on a game’s launch day or 3 years later. I guess you can say an achievement is like a promise in that sense. A challenge, on the other hand, is more like an opportunity – better grab it while you can! It is also comprised of a goal and a reward; however, challenges are time-bound (as in, real life time). That means you can only unlock during its eligible time window, and if you get close but don’t complete the goal when it ends… *Kanye shrug*
Achievements and challenges are both officially considered Xbox Live Achievements, so they inherit many of the same benefits:
You can unlock them and win their rewards;
Once unlocked, they are saved to your achievement history;
They each have an icon to visualize the cool thing you did;
They often are associated with a Game DVR capture to show your friends that you are better than they are
Developers can release more of them after the game’s initial release (more on that in a bit).
There are also some notable differences between them:
Challenges are time based. As just noted, challenges are only available for a certain period of time. Only your activity during that timeframe will count toward unlocking the challenge. Achievements do not expire, so you can unlock them at your leisure.
Challenges do not give out Gamerscore. We want everyone to have the same shot at increasing their Gamerscore to its highest potential. Since challenges are intentionally temporary (an opportunity) and achievements never expire (a promise), only achievements may offer Gamerscore as a reward.
Challenges may cross titles, but achievements cannot. Achievements cannot be shared across titles whereas challenges are allowed to span multiple titles.
Challenges can be unlocked by the community. Community challenges are typically goals that exceed what a lone player can accomplish in the given period of time. Imagine, for example, a game releases a headshot weekend challenge that requires players to cumulatively headshot 1 million baddies in a 3 day period. And every person who participates and meets the challenge’s goals gets the unlock on his or her achievement history and reaps its reward.
Another really cool thing with the new Achievements system is that it’s cloud-powered. A magical term, I know, but it delivers real value to users. Check it out:
Having cloud-powered achievements makes it easy and consistent to run challenges across all players of a game simultaneously.
It makes it possible for developers to add new achievements and challenges after their game is initially released. Why is that good for you?
1) It means you can get new achievements without always being required to buy new content (read: free!) or download title updates.
2) It allows developers to learn from and respond to user activity and focus on adding stuff that you’ll find fun. For example, let’s say a certain game is known on community forums to have a fun little sub-game of kicking chickens. Wouldn’t it be amazing if the game developers noticed the community enjoying an unintended aspect of the game and creating a challenge around it, with a reward to boot?
3) It empowers developers to involve the community (that means YOU) in the achievement creation process. If they so choose, a developer could run a contest for users to submit and vote on challenge ideas, for example, with the winning idea being released to the public as a legitimate Xbox Live Achievement. Not too shabby!
Let’s bring it all home and talk about what you actually see.
The Xbox One dashboard experience greatly improves how you discover and view Xbox Live Achievements.
Ever wondered how far along you were toward completing an achievement, particularly those that involve a lot of collection or linear progress? With Xbox One, games may now expose your latest progression toward unlocking an achievement right on the dashboard, even before you launch the game.
Quickly catch up on what your friends have been up with the achievement activity feed that keeps you informed about your friends’ latest unlocked achievements.
Check out video clips of that magical moment when an achievement was unlocked.
Easily discover upcoming challenges for a game at any time.
Your achievement history has been transformed into a more beautiful gallery of achievement icons that properly show off your hard-earned victories.
You guys all rock, thanks from all of us here on our dev team. Can’t wait to see you on Live!
Sounds like they're simply getting caught up in all the hate. There are still loyal fans out there. They're starting to rise up on the xbox forums.
Most of what they say is drivel, though. You'd think they were getting paid a wage.
What the hell?
Sounds like this guy has incredibly smart and clued up kids with completely valid concerns.
I applaud them for researching and looking at the bigger picture rather than succumbing to the usual "ZOMG, GRAPHICS, WANT, NEW...NEW" mentality that many kids suffer from today.
Thanks for the post heart sounds like a lot of spinned out waffle over something small mind you. Its not jaw dropping for me. I dont know what I was expecting. Probably something majorly new that nobody had thought to add that couldnt be retro fitted to the other platforms. You know like 360 owners would say they had xgc and sony couldnt shoe horn it in to ps3. That sort of thing.
TO me the promotional side of ps4s share sounds more revolutionary, although im not 100% convinced it will work as smoothly as advertised on my net connection.
I just find it bizarre that Microsoft made no defence of there policies, let alone even attempt to try to say why it's a good thing, the benefits, could the policy make games cheaper (that might of been a good place to start).
That alone was like loading a gun and pointing it at your own head, and then realising you have a twitchy trigger finger.
Customers are not stupid. If you going to do anything that has alot of potential downsides that are clear for everyone to see, there had better be a positive side benefits to it. Microsoft didn't even attempt to make the case, or even explain there vision of the future, or any reasoning behind it.
Sony at least made the case for sticking with the status quo from a business point of view, They don't want to kill/lose retail outlets for games, and the retail side are struggling enough with the status quo.
it's just incredibly unprofessional , if they where and upstart pitching this idea to investors, they'd get laughed out of the room especially if they avoid the tough questions they have been avoiding.
CliffyB is a first class prick. It's not just Europe that doesn't have fibre-optic everywhere, a lot of parts of America don't have decent broadband either.
CliffyB is a first class prick. It's not just Europe that doesn't have fibre-optic everywhere, a lot of parts of America don't have decent broadband either.
Microsoft also failed to come out and say how great there games on demand platform would be, or how much data you would need to have downloaded before you can start to play, or how quickly you could expect to start playing a typical newly purchased game or free to play game on say a 4mbit download speed connection.
That sums up my view on what Cliffy B said better than I ever could.
I agree. The arrogance of that man is astounding. He has a poor business model (spending too much on dev and marketing) and then blames customers for his mistakes.
The problem I see it is the likes of cliffy B spend so much time regurgitating the same old grap in a different guise that they have forgotten what customers want. They think that the publisher is god. Well they're not. If we the customers don't like wht the publishers are doing then their business model collapses. Publishers and developers have already gone to the wall for producing over priced crap and if cliffy B doesn't begin to learn that then he's going to be the next one.
The difference is electricity is a necessity for gaming, an internet connection is not always necessary so why make it a necessity. At the moment its a case of if the power goes out I cant use my console at all, if the internet goes out I can use half my console. With the Xbox 1 whether its the power that goes out or the internet that goes out the end result is the same, the machine stops working.
For me what it comes down to is why do I need to have an internet connection to play a game which does not utilise any online features.
Are you comparing PS+, a rental service to Xbox 1?
From reading some of the interviews it appears Microsoft are looking to use cloud processing power over time to allow the X1 to become more powerful.
My biggest concern with this is that a few years down the line they will eventually turn these servers off. Possibly meaning that you end up with a console that will do nothing.
Comments
For example, if you disconnected from PSN and play on your PS3 solely offline you would miss out on all those free games, if you've been a regular subscriber to PS+ for any amount of time and stopped paying Sony you would lose an absolute shedload of content from your HDD. There would be no game patches (which have proven vital in many cases) or access to countless amounts of exclusive digital content, it soon becomes quite glaringly obvious that internet access is a vital component to modern gaming and now a basic connection is a requirement (doesn't have to be fast, can even be mobile phone), and the reality is, it has been now for some time anyway.
The source with the twitter exchange snapshot:
http://gimmegimmegames.com/2013/06/xbox-one-may-not-be-able-to-be-sold-used/
If it's the case, then that probably goes some way to accounting for non user-replaceable HDs, I'd guess that it might not be possible to delete an owner's profile easily (a DRM and anti-theft feature?) and that they haven't decided whether wiping it can be done remotely or through 'participating retailers'.
It's not relevant, If I stop paying my electric I won't be eating. With internet It's not built into every day life like electric,gas, Maybe it's to hard to imagine for you, but millions manage there daily life's without the internet. Millions also enjoyed 360 and PS3 without internet, again something you seem to thinks is impossible. I remember myself completing red dead redemption, GTA 4, gears of war 1-2, many lego games all without access to the internet and still enjoying my time.
Do you ever ever read the things you type and do proper research ? You might be more respected if it was not for statements like this. totally inaccurate ones based on nothing but your assumptions, fibre has cost way more the projected by the government and BT. theirs no chance of meeting 2015 targets, access to fibre broadband Is no way accessible in most parts of UK, I mean already been pointed out in your own area of living only one exchange has been done.
You need stop looking at it like everyone just wanting to hate, or they don't get it, or their a 'fanboy' as For most in UK the internet is not stable, It's not something they have all the time, It's not a necessity for most. For what could of potentially been there favorite console brand, now they faced with something that's anti consumer, and their unhappy, why can't you just accept this, instead downplaying them, It's insanely obvious that this is not regular fanboy talk etc, this is genuine hate from some MS's biggest fans, that does not show a 'next gen' leap, this shows misguided decision by MS, who though most of the customer would bend over and take it dry. Thankfully this has not happened.
The difference is electricity is a necessity for gaming, an internet connection is not always necessary so why make it a necessity. At the moment its a case of if the power goes out I cant use my console at all, if the internet goes out I can use half my console. With the Xbox 1 whether its the power that goes out or the internet that goes out the end result is the same, the machine stops working.
For me what it comes down to is why do I need to have an internet connection to play a game which does not utilise any online features.
Are you comparing PS+, a rental service to Xbox 1?
It IS relevant, there are requirements to gaming other than needing a console and a TV and some of these are out of our direct control. My point is perfectly valid, BB is stable and damn near essential to make the most of current gen machines let alone next-gen. Think without online you would have no XBLA or PSN games, Steam would not exist, get with the bloody times!!
I accept if I am wrong in my assumptions around fibre optic BB, I live in NORFOLK so forgive me for thinking I am not at the cutting edge of British Telecommunication technology yet even I have an 80MB connection. Regardless, you don't need fibre optic, you don't even need an online connection faster than what is needed for 360, hell you don't even need a connection if you have a mobile phone.
I am not mistaking anything for something it is not and there is a LOT of hate going around at present. I am not denying there is disappointment from some Xbox fans but the most vocal of the hate brigade appear to sit firmly in the Sony camp.
You don't see me in the PS4 forums posting negative news articles, quizzing why anyone is thinking about buying one or insinuating they area fanboy/working for Sony do you? So why have a jab at me?? I am only trying to bring balance and reason to the topic. There's a LOT of fine print that people have not read for either console, but particularly the PS4 and it DRM policies which allow third parties to set their own rules meaning, for example, if EA don't want you to play their game without signing into Origin first then...they can.
The "Family share" option which Phil Spencer hinted at being relaxed and easily exploitable sounds like a brilliant way to share games among an X1 friendlist "family group". Not everything is doom and gloom, quite the opposite!
Your missing the point people are making entirely. Console can work without internet, they can't work with electricity that is fact.
Some people simply can't, broadband is not like you imagine all over the country. In some places It can down for hours.The fact is the X1 could work fine without internet for a decade, and the only game I would unable to play would be a game that's poorly made and needs fix day one. Something i can't see bothering me. i might not get as much out not connecting, however what you fail to understand is, all I care about is GAMES!, because I'm gamer, as i long as get play games, i don't care about the couple extra hours.
Then why state something that's totally incorrect, you typed it and obviously had no evidence to support such claims, my point is if your going to go around belittling people and making them out to be haters least try to be factual.
There's always going to be fan boy's theirs no more than usual. the majority of media backlash is simply down to 24 hour connection and used games policies. The general consensus, is the X1 has amazing lineup at launch and more to come, it has some amazing features. Obviously bit more divided however i feel kinect could be amazing for games.
The reasons are above, you being questioned and corrected because your statements continuously contain incorrect information that is simply misguiding. You also have continuously made baffling comparisons justifying the anti consumer policies that can't make sense no matter how hard you try twist them into something good.
Also If there was negative news towards Ps4 and I see it, around and not posted here I would be posting it, as I don't think like your perspective, news is news, your just making yourself sound worse by implying we shouldn't be reporting bad news. I also stated that very example in first thread of Sony giving DRM control to publishers, I think it's likely possibility.
The fact is this does not for GAMERS replace the ability to walk into CEX and sell there game or as for recent news potentially the system. So how do you response to that ? Can you seriously like everything else justify the potential outcome not being able to sell your £429 console ?
Jesso, there is more than one side to a story, you are assuming what is right for YOU is right for everyone and that is simply not so, this is the point I am trying to make. You're asking me justify this and justify that but I can only speak for myself. I've said quite clearly that people have a choice in what they buy, it's up to YOU, don't like the X1 don't buy it! Other people don't seem to understand this concept. Tell me, what does it have to do with anyone else (regardless of their own personal situation) what console I or someone else chooses to buy? It's not that I'm misinterpreting this personal quizzing as hate, more than I don't understand what it has to do with anything.
You are right out about the games, that's what I care about and that's precisely why these requirements don't put me off, because the exclusive line-up is nothing short of brilliant, if that wasn't the case I'd be picking the PS4 I can promise you.
referring to the bit in bold-
It leads to the end of gaming as we know it. By purchasing an Xbox One the consumers are validating Microsofts anti consumer policies and giving them a reason to keep screwing over the consumer.
Let me explain how this works in the real world. Before the Xbox came out, the PC, PlayStation and Nintendo gaming devices allowed you to play online for free.
When Xbox entered the market it started charging for the privilege. At the time it was ridiculed and pointless (as bandwidth costs are very low). Now Xbox Live has been validated by the consumer and the Playstation brand is now following the model. Nintendo will probably be next.
If the policies microsoft have implemented become successful then you can kiss goodbye to a DVD drive next gen/ It's likely the xbox will impose even stricter restrictions locking you in to their new console, and Sony and Nintendo will only follow suit meaning the gaming industry will be ruined.
That is simply not true, if there is a market for people who care so much about physical copies, offline play then it will be catered for just as Sony is taking advantage of now. There was nothing stopping them from imposing the same restrictions as X1, but they chose not to. It's like saying the SteamBox will do the same because that will require an internet connection too and you won't be able to sell, trade or lend your games using this device either.
This whole "do the right thing for the greater good of gamer freedom" is the biggest load of bollocks out there because the irony of the situation is we have a group of people so fiercely opposed to change that anyone publicly supporting Microsoft is chastised by the media and so called games fans for having their own opinion in what they believe is better suited for the greater good of the industry.
Take Cliff Bleszinski's recent twitter comments, stating how the next-generation of games and high budget AAA titles cannot and will not support a thriving preowned market, this is why we are fast seeing so many people losing jobs in the industry, so many smaller developers closing shop and why we are seeing such radical changes in the way games are distributed, from digital distribution, micro-transactions, DLC and the rise of F2P. It's time to move on and accept this rather than only care about OUR rights and what we SHOULD be entitled to yet all the while expecting the games to get bigger and better while still paying the same prices as before..something has to give and it will do if a plan is not put into place, which MS appear to have done.
I think it's quite clear once you cut through the bullshit which company has lavished their first party line-up with extremely high budgets, and this is a direct result of the restrictions that have been put into place to safeguard the publishers/developers from loss of profits through piracy and the pre-owned market.
http://www.gamefront.com/the-witcher-3-dev-disappointed-by-xbox-one-geographical-limitations/
http://www.gamefront.com/oddworld-new-n-tasty-isnt-coming-to-xbox-one-because-of-ms-policies/
With out consumers publishers have no one to sell to. And without developers they have nothing to sell. Publishers are just middle men and add nothing to the synergy between developers and consumers. MS and the likes of EA need to realise that we as consumers pay their salaries and they need to listen to us or they will go under. Poor service and commercial arrogance are not acceptable these days.
And the two developers you choose to highlight your point are complete exceptions to the rule, CD Projekt are famous for having such an anti-DRM policy that they have been quoted as saying "we don't care that people pirate our games", hardly representative of how most development studios feel is it? yet despite their strong stance, it doesn't stop them from developing on X1 does it...
Oddworld devs have well publicised bad blood with MS due to the lack of self-publishing rule for XBLA/X1 and a previous fall-out over Stranger's Wrath HD.
I'm pretty much done with this topic on this board in general now. I'm not for one moment suggesting the restrictions we see are not a very real concern for some people (like Jesso for instance) or that it's a good thing in terms of convenience and ownership rights, but there has to be some kind of give and take if we want the next-gen to truly take off. All I'm hearing is "me me me" and TBH this has been a long time coming, it's gonna happen one way or the other despite what Sony says (who are literally only guaranteeing no DRM restrictions on first party titles and no doubt reserve the right to change this if/when they see fit).
It may be coming but the way Microsoft are handling it is laughable. Trust me. I'm pro digital all the way thanks to Steam. The Xbox's DRM is monstrous though. It's just so laughably bad and nothing compared to Steam.
I mean there's news flying around you will lose access to all your Xbox One games if you got banned from Xbox Live. And before you say 'oh I won't get banned it won't affect me'. Just think about it for a second. You literally have no ownership of your games. You could turn round and say the same about Steam. But here's the thing. Steam is a free platform. I'm not paying an online subscription. The sales can be mega cheap even on AAA games. The Xbox One is much more expensive to maintain.
Another thing with their DRM is they're not even charging games at a lower price. They're charging games the same price as PS4. That is hilarious because why on earth would you pick Xbox One games where MS can take them away from you over PS4 games where Sony provides you full ownership.
Why are you defending a company who doesn't give a damn about you is questionable. If Sony did the same thing as MS I would be all over them as well. Trust me I'm not really that much of a fan of the PS4. It seems like an upgraded PS3 with social aspects but the way Sony have put their customers first is fantastic. It really makes me wanna buy their console because of their attitude. And this is coming from someone who has a good connection, purchases games new and never trades in.
Cliffy B, A guy paid by microsoft. The same guy who in response to the always on connectivity said "Europe, it's 2013. Sort your ****ing internet connection out".
Ah that guy. I'm sorry but this guy is just saying what Microsoft is saying and you're eating it up. Used games don't affect the industry at all. It's publishers who can't budget.
No other industry has decided to block used sales of physical goods or force their customers to use an internet connection.
Should we accept it when the DVD publishers start to block used dvd sales because they say they're losing money.
You've become a shill mate. And tbh i'm not a Sony fan either. But it's a hell of a better alternative to Microsoft for core gamers right now.
Wanted to hear how theyve taken features forward. Achievements. Cross game chat etc. Have they? For me they brought these things to the table and I expected an expansion but dont think ive heard of anything? Other than the cloud. Sony have copied this as xgc is on ps4 and taken it on to this share scenario. Havw sony surpassed the live features? I really dont know
Cliffy B is an idiot, he want to blame the used market for poorly managed developers and publishers, I have used the Tomb Raider example before and to me this is a good example of the problem the industry has at the moment, they expected sales to be much higher than they will ever likely achieve and then when it fails they blame used games. If a game can set sales records for the franchise and still fail to make money who is at fault, the publisher for over estimating sales expectations and budgeting for that over estimation or the used market?
It's nice to see that there are people on here that can have reasoned debate without talking bulls***, calling people 'fanboys' or accusing them of being employees of Microsoft.
Yes Gilly they have.
http://majornelson.com/2013/06/12/xbox-one-achievements/
That sums up my view on what Cliffy B said better than I ever could.
What the hell?
Sounds like this guy has incredibly smart and clued up kids with completely valid concerns.
I applaud them for researching and looking at the bigger picture rather than succumbing to the usual "ZOMG, GRAPHICS, WANT, NEW...NEW" mentality that many kids suffer from today.
His kids are a credit to him.
TO me the promotional side of ps4s share sounds more revolutionary, although im not 100% convinced it will work as smoothly as advertised on my net connection.
That alone was like loading a gun and pointing it at your own head, and then realising you have a twitchy trigger finger.
Customers are not stupid. If you going to do anything that has alot of potential downsides that are clear for everyone to see, there had better be a positive side benefits to it. Microsoft didn't even attempt to make the case, or even explain there vision of the future, or any reasoning behind it.
Sony at least made the case for sticking with the status quo from a business point of view, They don't want to kill/lose retail outlets for games, and the retail side are struggling enough with the status quo.
it's just incredibly unprofessional , if they where and upstart pitching this idea to investors, they'd get laughed out of the room especially if they avoid the tough questions they have been avoiding.
Microsoft also failed to come out and say how great there games on demand platform would be, or how much data you would need to have downloaded before you can start to play, or how quickly you could expect to start playing a typical newly purchased game or free to play game on say a 4mbit download speed connection.
I agree. The arrogance of that man is astounding. He has a poor business model (spending too much on dev and marketing) and then blames customers for his mistakes.
The problem I see it is the likes of cliffy B spend so much time regurgitating the same old grap in a different guise that they have forgotten what customers want. They think that the publisher is god. Well they're not. If we the customers don't like wht the publishers are doing then their business model collapses. Publishers and developers have already gone to the wall for producing over priced crap and if cliffy B doesn't begin to learn that then he's going to be the next one.
From reading some of the interviews it appears Microsoft are looking to use cloud processing power over time to allow the X1 to become more powerful.
My biggest concern with this is that a few years down the line they will eventually turn these servers off. Possibly meaning that you end up with a console that will do nothing.
http://uk.ign.com/articles/2013/05/21/xbox-one-to-become-more-powerful-over-time-via-cloud-computing