Tortoiseshell cat question

GiraffeGirl · 09/04/10 - 18:26

I remember reading once, a very long time ago, that the majority of torties are female. I can't remember where - it was potentially a very disreputable source!

Anyway, I remembered this when I was watching TV earlier and the Whiskas advert with the "I love grilled chicken, and my cat Lucy, and she loves grilled chicken too!" woman on it. And she said that Lucy had brought her friend, a tortoiseshell cat called Alfie, to eat.

(I'll ignore the fact she's feeding someone else's pet really expensive cat food which I'd get irritated by!)

So - owners or past owners of torties - are they usually female or was the source I read it from a big fat liar?

Bigfeet · 09/04/10 - 18:32

I was under the impression that most torties were female too, and have owned two torties, one being tortie/white, and yes - they were both females

.

[Deleted User] · 09/04/10 - 18:32

I have 3 tortie 7 month old cats and they are all female. A tortie male is realy rare there like hemaphoridites(spelled wrong). You can get them but its also like ginger cats there nearly always male but you do get the odd female one.

Bigfeet · 09/04/10 - 18:33

Maisey Moo wrote: »

I have 3 tortie 7 month old cats and they are all female. A tortie male is realy rare there like hemaphoridites(spelled wrong). You can get them but its also like ginger cats there nearly always male but you do get the odd female one.

Yes - I'd heard that too

.

The Geek · 09/04/10 - 18:42

Just shows what Whiskas now about cats. :rolleyes:

Interesting article here

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/wildlife/6092954/Male-tortoiseshell-cat-genetically-impossible.html

[Deleted User] · 09/04/10 - 19:36

My parents had ginger female tabby, she was very small the runt of the litter, she lived until she was 19, used to call her "whinge" cos that was the noise she used to make during her later years. And I have a tortoiseshell cat called Tortie !!! And yes she is a she.

BirthdayGirl · 09/04/10 - 19:50

My Toots is a tortoiseshell and was a stray.

When I rang the vets up to make an appointment to get her checked out (at that point I didnt know if she was a girl or a boy) the vet nurse said "oh if its a tortie its bound to be a girl"...which she was!

[Deleted User] · 09/04/10 - 19:52

Take a look at post #506 on this thread:

http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=1207914&page=21

Where Spiderpig tells us about his Tortie Alfie. I am assuming that Alfie is a boy?!

wildpumpkin · 09/04/10 - 19:54

GiraffeGirl wrote: »

Anyway, I remembered this when I was watching TV earlier and the Whiskas advert with the "I love grilled chicken, and my cat Lucy, and she loves grilled chicken too!" woman on it. And she said that Lucy had brought her friend, a tortoiseshell cat called Alfie, to eat.

I thought that too when I saw this advert. Perhaps the cat is female, but her name is actually Alfrieda:D

But as the article says, it is possible for a male tortie.

Bigfeet · 09/04/10 - 20:16

Ninja Kitty wrote: »

Take a look at post #506 on this thread:

http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=1207914&page=21

Where Spiderpig tells us about his Tortie Alfie. I am assuming that Alfie is a boy?!

:eek: Whiskas nicked Spiderpig's cat's name, or even Spiderpig's cat! :eek:

xdow · 09/04/10 - 20:34

genetically it's difficult to get a male tort
or a ginger female

i don't have my notes to hand but IIRC when you do get a male tort, or a female ginger they tend to have trisomy of the sex chromosomes

aiki · 09/04/10 - 21:23

I answered this Q on another forum a couple of weeks ago... It is true that virtually all tortoiseshells are female, cos the pattern can't appear unless the cat has two X chromosomes, one with a 'ginger gene' and one with a non-ginger (black) gene. In some of the cat's skin cells the ginger gene will be expressed and in others the black gene will be expressed, producing the mixed pattern. She may also have a tabby gene, which will make her a tabby-tortie with mixed brown tabby and ginger tabby patches, rather than a black-and-orange tortie, and she may have one or two 'white-spotting' genes too, which will make her a tortie-and-white/tortie tabby and white.

The handful of male tortoiseshells that exist are either 'mosaics' (when two embryos fuse to make one cat with two cats' genes) or males which have inherited an extra X chromosome due to a genetic accident (so they are XXY instead of the normal XY - such males are almost certainly infertile).

With ginger cats, the 'ginger gene' is recessive and carried on the X chromosome, which means that if a male cat, with only one X chromosome, inherits a ginger gene from either parent he will be ginger, but a female needs to inherit a ginger gene from both parents (so she has it on both of her X chromosomes) in order to be ginger. If she only inherits one ginger gene she'll be a tortie. So there are a lot more male gingers than females, but female gingers are much commoner than male torties.

benjamini · 09/04/10 - 22:00

I had a beautiful silver red Maine ****. Her father was red and her mother was tortoiseshell.

aiki · 09/04/10 - 22:11

benjamini wrote: »

I had a beautiful silver red Maine ****. Her father was red and her mother was tortoiseshell.

Sounds lovely

I'm not sure how the silvering gene works, but I believe it is expressed independently of whichever combination of the ginger/black genes the cat has.

From a red/ginger father and tortie mother you'd expect half the female kittens to be ginger (ginger gene from both parents) and the other half tortoiseshell (ginger gene from father only).

I met two beautiful ginger female farm cats at a friend's place the other day.

benjamini · 09/04/10 - 22:41

There was a red tom in the litter and three tortoise girls. She was the most beautiful cat. I have her cousin who is brown black and red. I never know how the gene thing works. Thanks for explaining it.

curmy · 10/04/10 - 00:08

I've got a Tortie girl who's nearly 19. The first time I took her to the vet, he said "Oh a naughty Tortie" and I must say she has quite an unpredictable temperament :eek:

[Deleted User] · 10/04/10 - 00:22

curmy wrote: »

I've got a Tortie girl who's nearly 19. The first time I took her to the vet, he said "Oh a naughty Tortie" and I must say she has quite an unpredictable temperament :eek:

My vet says torties usually have a fiery temperament - which was proved a moment later when my tortie scratched her!

[Deleted User] · 10/04/10 - 00:32

mand001 wrote: »

My vet says torties usually have a fiery temperament - which was proved a moment later when my tortie scratched her!

I agree totaly. Torties are barmy. 2 of them run around all over the place and one constanley wants to ring toys too me all the time. Plastic bottle lids toy mice etc. There completley bonkers. Sorry i cant spell tonight i have been to the pub which is so unusal for me

[Deleted User] · 10/04/10 - 01:24

I didn't know torties were usually girls. My cat is a tortoiseshell tabby, and she's got a big splodge of orange on the top of her head

stevejk75 · 10/04/10 - 06:40

Maisey Moo wrote: »

I have 3 tortie 7 month old cats and they are all female. A tortie male is realy rare there like hemaphoridites(spelled wrong). You can get them but its also like ginger cats there nearly always male but you do get the odd female one.

I have three gingers and they are all boys.

cats_five · 10/04/10 - 09:55

Cat coat colour genetics - my favourite!

aiki wrote: »

<snip>
With ginger cats, the 'ginger gene' is recessive and carried on the X chromosome, which means that if a male cat, with only one X chromosome, inherits a ginger gene from either parent he will be ginger, but a female needs to inherit a ginger gene from both parents (so she has it on both of her X chromosomes) in order to be ginger. If she only inherits one ginger gene she'll be a tortie. So there are a lot more male gingers than females, but female gingers are much commoner than male torties.

Almost correct, but ginger is not recessive. If it was a tortie cat wouldn't exist - a female would have to have ginger on both X chromosones for it to be expressed, and she would be ginger not tortie.

But absolutely right about tortie males being mosaics or XXY males.

You can also plot mating outcomes:

No ginger in the parents = no ginger in the offspring
Ginger male, non-ginger female = tortie girls and non-ginger boys
Ginger male, tortie female = tortie or ginger girls and ginger or non-ginger males
Ginger male, ginger female = all ginger girls and boys
Non-ginger male, tortie female = non-ginger or ginger males and non-ginger or tortie females
Non-ginger male, ginger female = ginger males and tortie females

And if you are interested, you can use o or O for X as a shorthand in the genotypes, so males are OY (ginger) or oY (not ginger) and females are OO (ginger), Oo (tortie) or oo (not ginger). That's where the mating outcomes come from - perm all cominations of OO, Oo or oo and OY or oY.

What is really interesting is what happens when a tortie cat has white spots - instead of finely mingled ginger and whatever else, the cat has large patches or them - it's a calico. I gather this is to do with X-inactivation and the Wikipedia explains it:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tortoiseshell_cat
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X-inactivation

And of course the 'whatever else' can be anything - tabby, plain, black, blue, chocolate and so on - and the cat can also have a Burmese, Tonkinese or Siamese colour restriction.

mimicole · 10/04/10 - 10:25

off-topic, sorry. My nan told me that most grey cats are female...we went to look at some kittens, 2 were grey and white the other was black and white. I really wanted a girl and nearly picked one of the grey ones but then I was told that the only female was the black and white one, and that's the one we have now (Winnie). How true is this?

gonnaenodaethat · 10/04/10 - 12:14

i also know that torties with red in them are usually highly strung. Very unpredictable. Ginger females rarely have stripes though. They usually have circles don't they? Like wise male torties don't have red in them?

Sandgrownun · 10/04/10 - 12:22

My tortie was the only female in the litter, I can't remember how many there were now but we chose her because she was the only female (our other cat was female and we thought they'd get on better, but I think the older cat would have preferred us to get her a tom

)

[Deleted User] · 10/04/10 - 19:24

mimicole wrote: »

off-topic, sorry. My nan told me that most grey cats are female...we went to look at some kittens, 2 were grey and white the other was black and white. I really wanted a girl and nearly picked one of the grey ones but then I was told that the only female was the black and white one, and that's the one we have now (Winnie). How true is this?

Sorry but not true. Several breeds are all grey (aka "blue"), that is all cats in that breed, all the males and all the females are blue e.g British blues, Russian blues, Korat cats, Chartreaux (sp)etc, also blue pointed cats can be male or female

mimicole · 10/04/10 - 20:04

Tass wrote: »

Sorry but not true. Several breeds are all grey (aka "blue"), that is all cats in that breed, all the males and all the females are blue e.g British blues, Russian blues, Korat cats, Chartreaux (sp)etc, also blue pointed cats can be male or female

I thought that afterwards. We had a grey kitten just before we got Winnie. The grey kitten died (we believed the man when he told us that she was 8 weeks old and ready to leave, she was so much younger, didn't realise that at the time, clear that he couldn't wait to get rid of the kittens before they were ready to go. we did all we could to keep her strength up, but it didn't work

) So when we heard about these other grey kittens my mum was talking to nan and she said all grey kittens were female. Obviously not true, though she didn't realise that.

Hey there!

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