Putting aside the absurdity of about 20 super criminals floating around that the FBI didn't know about until Red told them, this is still an incredibly daft show .
The latest daftness being Liz somewhat subdued response to the fact Red killed her father,
I think the writers probably knew Red doing that was a misstep and they are trying to consign it to history by quickly glossing over it.
It would be nice if Liz put her big girl panties on, stepped up in the adult world and began to act like she was/is one of them.
Liz Sweetie, like it or not Red was the first one to give you a heads up that hubby/Tom wasn't exactly on the up and up with you. Sometimes that happens even in real life.
When Red saw you being dragged into the hostage taking business his nemisis was engaged in, while he was inside the safe box out of harms way and biding time until the calvary could arrive, he didn't hesitate, or second guess about what would happen to him, he did whatever was necessary. He got the code for his release and then knowingly and willingly surrenered to a psychopath who was going to with great pleasure torture him just short of death!
Red also didn't try to evade, explain, or justify to you his actions regarding the death of your adopted father. He did say that your dad knew he was dying in a very short time, that he was in great pain, had tried to fight it to no avail, that they had known each other all of your life, and most of his own. This death was no random killing for hire or kicks. Tom's actions of being sure that you would know about what Red did were self serving to the max and truly crueler to you than what Red's deed was.
I am not justifying "mercy killing" by any means but rather am following a specific thread I am seeing in the story line, Red protects Liz at all cost. While it could be said that Red is using Liz, like it or not there is a freight train rolling down the tracks she's on. And given the nature of her work it is going to roll right over her either with the malice of forethought of the chief engineer at its wheel; or by way of the fall out from a showdown coming between the "good guys" and those like Tom who think laws don't apply to them.
It is said that the enemy of my enemy is or can be my friend and ally. Hey Liz wake up and smell the coffee; Tom is now your enemy and he really knows that since he flat out murdered Joline for being the threat he thought she was, his real enemy; the one person who can most seriously harm him now truly is not you Liz! It is Red! That's who he fears most now; so like it or not Red is someone you need to risk trusting because he is your friend.
It would be nice if Liz put her big girl panties on, stepped up in the adult world and began to act like she was/is one of them.
Liz Sweetie, like it or not Red was the first one to give you a heads up that hubby/Tom wasn't exactly on the up and up with you. Sometimes that happens even in real life.
When Red saw you being dragged into the hostage taking business his nemisis was engaged in, while he was inside the safe box out of harms way and biding time until the calvary could arrive, he didn't hesitate, or second guess about what would happen to him, he did whatever was necessary. He got the code for his release and then knowingly and willingly surrenered to a psychopath who was going to with great pleasure torture him just short of death!
Red also didn't try to evade, explain, or justify to you his actions regarding the death of your adopted father. He did say that your dad knew he was dying in a very short time, that he was in great pain, had tried to fight it to no avail, that they had known each other all of your life, and most of his own. This death was no random killing for hire or kicks. Tom's actions of being sure that you would know about what Red did were self serving to the max and truly crueler to you than what Red's deed was.
I am not justifying "mercy killing" by any means but rather am following a specific thread I am seeing in the story line, Red protects Liz at all cost. While it could be said that Red is using Liz, like it or not there is a freight train rolling down the tracks she's on. And given the nature of her work it is going to roll right over her either with the malice of forethought of the chief engineer at its wheel; or by way of the fall out from a showdown coming between the "good guys" and those like Tom who think laws don't apply to them.
It is said that the enemy of my enemy is or can be my friend and ally. Hey Liz wake up and smell the coffee; Tom is now your enemy and he really knows that since he flat out murdered Joline for being the threat he thought she was, his real enemy; the one person who can most seriously harm him now truly is not you Liz! It is Red! That's who he fears most now; so like it or not Red is someone you need to risk trusting because he is your friend.
If it wasnt for Red i wouldnt be watching any longer im really starting to dislike Liz and her whining, the man told her about her husband ---forhis own good admiitedly__ but has saved her bum many a time.
Putting aside the absurdity of about 20 super criminals floating around that the FBI didn't know about until Red told them, this is still an incredibly daft show .
The latest daftness being Liz somewhat subdued response to the fact Red killed her father,
I think the writers probably knew Red doing that was a misstep and they are trying to consign it to history by quickly glossing over it.
Not really. They were looking for Bin Laden for how long? These aren't even organised terrorists, they are freelancers tapped by the big consortium apparently ran by Berlin do to jobs for them.
Liz's father was dying anyway, she's just mad Red took him away before he could say whatever Red feared he would.
Liz does come across as an idiot. Her husband was part of an undercover op on her for years because of how important she seemingly was Berlin's only way to lure Red out and they knew he'd got to her. She only has her position because Red demanded it. But she was going to sacrifice national security over a personal dispute? The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.
This week was a tad mad....seemed a very convoluted way for Berlin to arrive. And if he was a prisoner on that plane surely the FBI should know who he was from the flight plan.
It's pure tosh but is still very engaging for me in ways that guff like the Following just isn't.
This week was a tad mad....seemed a very convoluted way for Berlin to arrive. And if he was a prisoner on that plane surely the FBI should know who he was from the flight plan.
It's pure tosh but is still very engaging for me in ways that guff like the Following just isn't.
Up until episode 8 it was top notch, it has since became a bit more of a hash job but Spader's charisma playing Red is magnetic. He's not quite chewing the scenery but you can tell he's having a ball playing a louche villain. I think Ressler and the British Asian cast members are underrated support and Lizzie's portrayal is increasingly iffy. Claire Danes had to shovel some crap in seasons 2 and 3 of Homeland but at least she did ber best with bad material at times.
The trouble with US network tv is that you can tell who the villain is by the actors they choose to play a part. If it is someone who you have seen before and he appears to be playing a small part you know in fact that is a ruse. So it is with this finale.
Anyway it came across to me as a bit of a rip of of 'The Usual Suspects' and the character of Keyser Söze : the mythology; the way the characters were describing what happened on board the plane.
The trouble with US network tv is that you can tell who the villain is by the actors they choose to play a part. If it is someone who you have seen before and he appears to be playing a small part you know in fact that is a ruse. So it is with this finale.
Cracking episode, still wondering if Red is her Dad, even though he's denied it.
I think by showing us the scars on his back at the end confirms he is her dad. I wonder why he is so desperate for her never to find out. No doubt it will come out when the series ends. Great finale and wasn't surprised by Meera's death, didn't think they'd get rid of Cooper! Like to see Lizzie and Ress get together at some point too
The trouble with US network tv is that you can tell who the villain is by the actors they choose to play a part. If it is someone who you have seen before and he appears to be playing a small part you know in fact that is a ruse. So it is with this finale.
There was an episode of Longmire that had Jere Burns as a guest star and he always plays dodgy characters. As soon as his name came up I knew he would be the killer, but shockingly he was completely innocent and his son was instead. That's pretty much the only time I can think of where the well-known guest star wasn't the villain.
So Tom gets shot, what? 3 times? In the chest and is still alive. Urgh.
Thought they were cleaning house. But Cooper and Tom both miraculously survive. Meera was the one of the three I would have preferred to stay alive, so that sucks.
Pretty poor episode for a season finale. Expected more.
So Tom gets shot, what? 3 times? In the chest and is still alive. Urgh.
Thought they were cleaning house. But Cooper and Tom both miraculously survive. Meera was the one of the three I would have preferred to stay alive, so that sucks.
Pretty poor episode for a season finale. Expected more.
I think he got shot in the stomach, as long as the bullets didn't hit any major organs and he got medical help quick he would survive quite easily. The human body is surprisingly resilient.
So Tom gets shot, what? 3 times? In the chest and is still alive. Urgh.
Thought they were cleaning house. But Cooper and Tom both miraculously survive. Meera was the one of the three I would have preferred to stay alive, so that sucks.
Pretty poor episode for a season finale. Expected more.
Yes I agree it was a poor episode let alone for a season finale.
Are we really supposed to care about this 'Berlin' guy? Even if it was Red who sent him his daughter's body parts he hasn't been given enough back story for us to care.
Boone is a poor actress, she only has one face and it is 'mardy'.
So Tom gets shot, what? 3 times? In the chest and is still alive. Urgh.
Thought they were cleaning house. But Cooper and Tom both miraculously survive. Meera was the one of the three I would have preferred to stay alive, so that sucks.
Pretty poor episode for a season finale. Expected more.
I won't miss Meera as having a CIA agent with a British accent never made any sense and just highlighted Parminder Nagra's acting limitations.
Otherwise, a slightly disappointing season finale. Maybe there was a deeper meaning to it that I missed.
If it wasnt for Red i wouldnt be watching any longer im really starting to dislike Liz and her whining, the man told her about her husband ---forhis own good admiitedly__ but has saved her bum many a time.
she needs to woman up
James Spader is the only one of the cast who can actually act, Liz and the rest of them are terrible, i would say i think Tom improved towards the end but Spader is wasted on this dross
Honestly, I think it was a decent yet lackluster episode. It could have been better. Previous episode, I was happy the FBI weren't actually bumbling idiots for once, but this episode took them a few steps backwards and the same with Liz. You would have thought they would be extra cautious with heightened security as they were all walking targets on Berlin's list. Like, Harold not being extra cautious getting into his car and Lizzie leaving her doors unlocked. Meera and Ressler going to the club without back up. I seriously hope the portrayal of the FBI improves in Season 2 with the writing. Gets on my nerves so much!
Its as if they leave the good material and lines for James's character whom I love & the reason why I watch it. I seriously hope Liz isn't written so poorly in the next season, there was a glimmer of hope in episode 21, when she beats up fake Craig in episode 18 and the bada*s Liz in Anslo Garrick. Then, they let her character down by getting her to do something stupid. They have written her character so poorly.
They need to give more of a backstory to the taskforce members so we can empathise and root for. I only cared for Aram and Ressler, a little. No one cared for Meera's character because there wasn't much of a story to her character and the same with Grey, Red's man servant that betrayed Red.
I don't believe Red is her father, I do think he was a good friend of Liz's real father. I'm still sticking to the theory that Liz's family were targets by Fitch, he rescued Liz from the fire as he didnt expect a child to be caught in the crossfire of the mission and rescued her. OR he was really good friends with Liz's father and out of loyalty wanted to inform him beforehand that they were targets, it was too late & he only found Liz alive. Word got back to Fitch & the alliance wanted him dead as he was exposed to far too much after Red going rogue.
Maybe Liz assumed her 'father' was the one who rescued her from the fire & believed that version to be true as a sense of comfort.
I think Berlin's daughter fell in love with Red, she was killed because of her involvement with him and he carries around a sense of guilt/responsibility for causing her death. Explains why he needed the Stewmaker & why Berlin's vendetta runs so deep. Unless she fell for a dissident (Sam?), she befriended Red, told him that she fell for someone that was considered an enemy and Red agreed to help her escape Russia with her forbidden lover. They were caught, she was killed and Red felt an incredible amount of guilt and felt 'responsible' for the cause of her death.
Berlin wants to take away everything Red holds close to him & completely destroy his business. Liz is nothing more than leverage against Red. A daughter for a 'daughter'. Berlin could threaten to hurt her to bring out Red in future.
I'm starting to think Liz wanted to keep Tom alive for her own purpose not because he was emotionally manipulating her. He's alive, there was a blood trail leaving the room in the doorway & maybe Gina rescued her lover. I would have liked to have seen her make an appearance. For the record, Tom doesn't love her, maybe conflicted yet he was happy to give her name on the hitlist considering his allegiance lies with Berlin.
I think he got shot in the stomach, as long as the bullets didn't hit any major organs and he got medical help quick he would survive quite easily. The human body is surprisingly resilient.
I must have missed something - I thought Tom died. I didn't see him receiving medical attention, and Liz referred to Tom being dead when she told Red what Tom had told her (about her father being alive).
I don't think Red's burns prove he is Liz's father. All it proves is that he was there at the fire. He could be the "old friend" who knocked on Sam's door asking him to look after Liz.
Comments
The latest daftness being Liz somewhat subdued response to the fact Red killed her father,
I think the writers probably knew Red doing that was a misstep and they are trying to consign it to history by quickly glossing over it.
Liz Sweetie, like it or not Red was the first one to give you a heads up that hubby/Tom wasn't exactly on the up and up with you. Sometimes that happens even in real life.
When Red saw you being dragged into the hostage taking business his nemisis was engaged in, while he was inside the safe box out of harms way and biding time until the calvary could arrive, he didn't hesitate, or second guess about what would happen to him, he did whatever was necessary. He got the code for his release and then knowingly and willingly surrenered to a psychopath who was going to with great pleasure torture him just short of death!
Red also didn't try to evade, explain, or justify to you his actions regarding the death of your adopted father. He did say that your dad knew he was dying in a very short time, that he was in great pain, had tried to fight it to no avail, that they had known each other all of your life, and most of his own. This death was no random killing for hire or kicks. Tom's actions of being sure that you would know about what Red did were self serving to the max and truly crueler to you than what Red's deed was.
I am not justifying "mercy killing" by any means but rather am following a specific thread I am seeing in the story line, Red protects Liz at all cost. While it could be said that Red is using Liz, like it or not there is a freight train rolling down the tracks she's on. And given the nature of her work it is going to roll right over her either with the malice of forethought of the chief engineer at its wheel; or by way of the fall out from a showdown coming between the "good guys" and those like Tom who think laws don't apply to them.
It is said that the enemy of my enemy is or can be my friend and ally. Hey Liz wake up and smell the coffee; Tom is now your enemy and he really knows that since he flat out murdered Joline for being the threat he thought she was, his real enemy; the one person who can most seriously harm him now truly is not you Liz! It is Red! That's who he fears most now; so like it or not Red is someone you need to risk trusting because he is your friend.
Liz Sweetie, like it or not Red was the first one to give you a heads up that hubby/Tom wasn't exactly on the up and up with you. Sometimes that happens even in real life.
When Red saw you being dragged into the hostage taking business his nemisis was engaged in, while he was inside the safe box out of harms way and biding time until the calvary could arrive, he didn't hesitate, or second guess about what would happen to him, he did whatever was necessary. He got the code for his release and then knowingly and willingly surrenered to a psychopath who was going to with great pleasure torture him just short of death!
Red also didn't try to evade, explain, or justify to you his actions regarding the death of your adopted father. He did say that your dad knew he was dying in a very short time, that he was in great pain, had tried to fight it to no avail, that they had known each other all of your life, and most of his own. This death was no random killing for hire or kicks. Tom's actions of being sure that you would know about what Red did were self serving to the max and truly crueler to you than what Red's deed was.
I am not justifying "mercy killing" by any means but rather am following a specific thread I am seeing in the story line, Red protects Liz at all cost. While it could be said that Red is using Liz, like it or not there is a freight train rolling down the tracks she's on. And given the nature of her work it is going to roll right over her either with the malice of forethought of the chief engineer at its wheel; or by way of the fall out from a showdown coming between the "good guys" and those like Tom who think laws don't apply to them.
It is said that the enemy of my enemy is or can be my friend and ally. Hey Liz wake up and smell the coffee; Tom is now your enemy and he really knows that since he flat out murdered Joline for being the threat he thought she was, his real enemy; the one person who can most seriously harm him now truly is not you Liz! It is Red! That's who he fears most now; so like it or not Red is someone you need to risk trusting because he is your friend.
she needs to woman up
Not really. They were looking for Bin Laden for how long? These aren't even organised terrorists, they are freelancers tapped by the big consortium apparently ran by Berlin do to jobs for them.
Liz's father was dying anyway, she's just mad Red took him away before he could say whatever Red feared he would.
Liz does come across as an idiot. Her husband was part of an undercover op on her for years because of how important she seemingly was Berlin's only way to lure Red out and they knew he'd got to her. She only has her position because Red demanded it. But she was going to sacrifice national security over a personal dispute? The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.
It's pure tosh but is still very engaging for me in ways that guff like the Following just isn't.
Up until episode 8 it was top notch, it has since became a bit more of a hash job but Spader's charisma playing Red is magnetic. He's not quite chewing the scenery but you can tell he's having a ball playing a louche villain. I think Ressler and the British Asian cast members are underrated support and Lizzie's portrayal is increasingly iffy. Claire Danes had to shovel some crap in seasons 2 and 3 of Homeland but at least she did ber best with bad material at times.
Anyway it came across to me as a bit of a rip of of 'The Usual Suspects' and the character of Keyser Söze : the mythology; the way the characters were describing what happened on board the plane.
Yup.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/NarrowedItDownToTheGuyIRecognize
I think by showing us the scars on his back at the end confirms he is her dad. I wonder why he is so desperate for her never to find out. No doubt it will come out when the series ends. Great finale and wasn't surprised by Meera's death, didn't think they'd get rid of Cooper! Like to see Lizzie and Ress get together at some point too
Not sure if that's anything to do with James Spader being the main bad guy in The Avengers 2 and a clash in filming?
Maybe season 2 will be shorter?
There was an episode of Longmire that had Jere Burns as a guest star and he always plays dodgy characters. As soon as his name came up I knew he would be the killer, but shockingly he was completely innocent and his son was instead. That's pretty much the only time I can think of where the well-known guest star wasn't the villain.
Thought they were cleaning house. But Cooper and Tom both miraculously survive. Meera was the one of the three I would have preferred to stay alive, so that sucks.
Pretty poor episode for a season finale. Expected more.
I think he got shot in the stomach, as long as the bullets didn't hit any major organs and he got medical help quick he would survive quite easily. The human body is surprisingly resilient.
Yes I agree it was a poor episode let alone for a season finale.
Are we really supposed to care about this 'Berlin' guy? Even if it was Red who sent him his daughter's body parts he hasn't been given enough back story for us to care.
Boone is a poor actress, she only has one face and it is 'mardy'.
This series is over hyped.
Except for one regular cast member becoming a red shirt it was all pretty much unresolved and reset at the end.
Spader great as usual but other than that this was a disappointing end for me.
Pretty much sums it up.
Maybe Meg is having a baby?
I won't miss Meera as having a CIA agent with a British accent never made any sense and just highlighted Parminder Nagra's acting limitations.
Otherwise, a slightly disappointing season finale. Maybe there was a deeper meaning to it that I missed.
James Spader is the only one of the cast who can actually act, Liz and the rest of them are terrible, i would say i think Tom improved towards the end but Spader is wasted on this dross
Its as if they leave the good material and lines for James's character whom I love & the reason why I watch it. I seriously hope Liz isn't written so poorly in the next season, there was a glimmer of hope in episode 21, when she beats up fake Craig in episode 18 and the bada*s Liz in Anslo Garrick. Then, they let her character down by getting her to do something stupid. They have written her character so poorly.
They need to give more of a backstory to the taskforce members so we can empathise and root for. I only cared for Aram and Ressler, a little. No one cared for Meera's character because there wasn't much of a story to her character and the same with Grey, Red's man servant that betrayed Red.
I don't believe Red is her father, I do think he was a good friend of Liz's real father. I'm still sticking to the theory that Liz's family were targets by Fitch, he rescued Liz from the fire as he didnt expect a child to be caught in the crossfire of the mission and rescued her. OR he was really good friends with Liz's father and out of loyalty wanted to inform him beforehand that they were targets, it was too late & he only found Liz alive. Word got back to Fitch & the alliance wanted him dead as he was exposed to far too much after Red going rogue.
Maybe Liz assumed her 'father' was the one who rescued her from the fire & believed that version to be true as a sense of comfort.
I think Berlin's daughter fell in love with Red, she was killed because of her involvement with him and he carries around a sense of guilt/responsibility for causing her death. Explains why he needed the Stewmaker & why Berlin's vendetta runs so deep. Unless she fell for a dissident (Sam?), she befriended Red, told him that she fell for someone that was considered an enemy and Red agreed to help her escape Russia with her forbidden lover. They were caught, she was killed and Red felt an incredible amount of guilt and felt 'responsible' for the cause of her death.
Berlin wants to take away everything Red holds close to him & completely destroy his business. Liz is nothing more than leverage against Red. A daughter for a 'daughter'. Berlin could threaten to hurt her to bring out Red in future.
I'm starting to think Liz wanted to keep Tom alive for her own purpose not because he was emotionally manipulating her. He's alive, there was a blood trail leaving the room in the doorway & maybe Gina rescued her lover. I would have liked to have seen her make an appearance. For the record, Tom doesn't love her, maybe conflicted yet he was happy to give her name on the hitlist considering his allegiance lies with Berlin.
I must have missed something - I thought Tom died. I didn't see him receiving medical attention, and Liz referred to Tom being dead when she told Red what Tom had told her (about her father being alive).
I don't think Red's burns prove he is Liz's father. All it proves is that he was there at the fire. He could be the "old friend" who knocked on Sam's door asking him to look after Liz.