The be fair Cook was 17 or 18 at the time and it was an incredible achivement for somebody so young and inexperienced at that level
Compared to Muhammad, Cook in 2008 was more experienced and as Jade Jones (and Sarah Stevenson) proved experience isn't everything. Before Beijing Cook had already competed at a World Championship and been through tough Olympic qualification tournaments. The reason why Muhammad (or Cook) didn't face the same level of competition in Olympic qualification was that Team GB got host nation spots.
And people are forgetting that Aaron has had a shot at Olympic gold, he lost on the way, got a second chance through the repechage and then lost the bronze medal match. So on what evidence are you saying that he would have done better than Muhammad? Surely not past Olympic results.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA.
Are you on the selection committee.
Aaron Cook was SEVENTEEN in Beijing. Seventeen. He is 21 now, same age as Mohammed but he competes in the right weight, he is European champion, he is world number 1 and he beat the guy who stuffed Mohammed both times he fought him.
In my opinion the Taekwondo format is flawed, they should have a round robin or group format before finals other than as it stands, its not boxing where safety stops u competing after a loss.
But regardless of that, one British 80kg taekwondo player has demonstrated the abiltiy to win gold. Aaron Cook. And he should have been competing
Her husband was on the selection committee that decided between Muhammad and Cook. I don't think he was on the committee that decided on his wife's selection.
And are you completely clueless. I'm not an expert on TKD but at least I'd heard of it before the Olympics and I'm prepared to do research. Also, you're alleging that TKD wilfully decided to reduce their medal chances when everyone knows the next four years funding is dependent on how many medals you get this time.
Aaron Cook was SEVENTEEN in Beijing. Seventeen. He is 21 now, same age as Mohammed but he competes in the right weight, he is European champion, he is world number 1 and he beat the guy who stuffed Mohammed both times he fought him.
Yes, and Cook was more experienced, he left school at 15 and turned full time professional for the two years up to Beijing. Muhammad put university first and has only been able to be full time for the last year.
The world rankings are additive, just recording points gained from competitions in the last four years. Therefore the more active competitors are ranked higher. Cook gained points from 2009 when Muhammad wasn't competing in A Class and 2010 when Muhammad got to one A Class competition. Likewise the 2012 Euro Championships that Muhammad won doesn't count for the -80kg category because it was at a different weight class. For the record though, currently Muhammad is 11th in the world rankings, as well as being 4th in the -87kg category.
In my opinion the Taekwondo format is flawed, they should have a round robin or group format before finals other than as it stands, its not boxing where safety stops u competing after a loss.
Oh, that's great, one week after the non-trying Badminton scandal showed the weaknesses of the round robin model. Anyway, the repechage does allow the strong fighter unlucky enough to get a tough opponent to still get a Bronze.
But regardless of that, one British 80kg taekwondo player has demonstrated the abiltiy to win gold. Aaron Cook. And he should have been competing
But if you accept that argument then Mohammad can never be selected for a World, Olympic or European competition as we're only allowed one fighter per weight. That's a ridiculous argument.
In a team event it can sometimes be justified to leave out your best player. But in a singles contest such as this, it's difficult to find any justification.
I am glad Mohammad won the bronze, and have nothing but respect and admiration for the guy. But that doesn't alter the fact that Cook was treated shabbily, and I can understand his bitterness. Cook was widely regarded as the better prospect, and deserved his chance. The rather mealy-mouthed explanations given by our selectors just sounds like clutching at straws, besides they said nothing until they were forced into a corner.
I don't think it matters what colour medal Mohammad won, the original decision to leave out Cook was clearly unjust.
Question asked and answered, Aaron, your rival just won bronze
That doesn't answer the question. To prove the selectors right, he had to get gold and he didn't. Kenny being picked over Hoy was arguably controversial but he got gold so the cycling selectors can be happy...if he hadn't they would have got a pasting as should the Taikwondo selectors.
Really pleased for Lutalo Muhammad that he ended up winning a bronze medal for GB, the first ever GB mens medal in the sport. I can only imagine how much pressure he must have been under as a result of the selectors decisions which clearly he had no influence over.
As to whether Cook should have been selected ahead of him, yes there are still questions to answer around the transarency of the selection process. But for now I'm just happy to recognise GBs best ever performance in an Olympic games in a sport in which 10 years ago we problably never dreamt we could get any sort of medal.
Really pleased for Lutalo Muhammad that he ended up winning a bronze medal for GB, the first ever GB mens medal in the sport. I can only imagine how much pressure he must have been under as a result of the selectors decisions which clearly he had no influence over.
As to whether Cook should have been selected ahead of him, yes there are still questions to answer around the transarency of the selection process. But for now I'm just happy to recognise GBs best ever performance in an Olympic games in a sport in which 10 years ago we problably never dreamt we could get any sort of medal.
I agree with this. Hopefully Lutalo will go from strength to strength and Aaron Cook too.
Really pleased for Lutalo Muhammad that he ended up winning a bronze medal for GB, the first ever GB mens medal in the sport. I can only imagine how much pressure he must have been under as a result of the selectors decisions which clearly he had no influence over.
Anyone wanting to see how much pressure he was under and how it was affecting him need only go and watch his interview after he lost his QF and compare it to his interview after he won bronze. He looked like a man with the weight of the world on his shoulders in the first. I'm sure that pressure affected him in that loss and he would have had a better chance at gold if he'd just had a normal build up. So chuffed for him that he got a medal.
Yes there are still plenty of questions for GB Taekwondo but Lutalo doesn't have any questions to answer. He delivered a medal and has every right to be extremely proud. I still can't believe the awful racist thread that was posted earlier saying Aaron Cook was British and Lutalo wasn't based on the fact he is black and has an Islamic name. Lutalo is a London boy and he just won an Olympic medal in his back yard.
In a team event it can sometimes be justified to leave out your best player. But in a singles contest such as this, it's difficult to find any justification.
I am glad Mohammad won the bronze, and have nothing but respect and admiration for the guy. But that doesn't alter the fact that Cook was treated shabbily, and I can understand his bitterness. Cook was widely regarded as the better prospect, and deserved his chance. The rather mealy-mouthed explanations given by our selectors just sounds like clutching at straws, besides they said nothing until they were forced into a corner.
I don't think it matters what colour medal Mohammad won, the original decision to leave out Cook was clearly unjust.
But according to the experts at British Taekwondo Muhammad was considered better than Cook. Anyone who thinks that Cook would have done better than Muhammad needs to explain what the motivation of British Taekwondo was to pick the inferior fighter was.
UK Sport allocate funding to sports based on Olympic and Paralympic medal potential. British Taekwondo got £2.7m for the Beijing cycle (2005-09), but as they performed better than their target their funding increased to £4.8m for the London cycle (2009-13). But with the increase in funding has come an increase in medal expectation. British Taekwondo needed whichever fighter they picked, Cook or Muhammad to win a medal, there's maybe £1m of future funding riding on that decision.
It's not logical that British Taekwondo risked £1m because they didn't like Cook, it's only logical if they thought Cook was an inferior fighter to Muhammad.
Personally, I think Cook lost selection when he went out in the first round of the 2011 World Championships. If Cook had performed well in that tournament, then he would have been picked.
Really pleased for Lutalo Muhammad that he ended up winning a bronze medal for GB, the first ever GB mens medal in the sport. I can only imagine how much pressure he must have been under as a result of the selectors decisions which clearly he had no influence over.
As to whether Cook should have been selected ahead of him, yes there are still questions to answer around the transarency of the selection process. But for now I'm just happy to recognise GBs best ever performance in an Olympic games in a sport in which 10 years ago we problably never dreamt we could get any sort of medal.
Agree with most of what you say - well done to Jade & Lutalo but really hope their success means that the selection issue & complete lack of transparancy doesn't get swept under the carpet as a result.
"I've had a few learning experiences and haven't had the results I wanted," said Muhammad, who believes team-mate Damon Sansum will be a big threat in Manchester.."
I'm sure Cook, (the world number 1) will be a threat too. He is doing OK for a guy who trains in a shed in his back garden (he also got abandoned by UK Sport funding).
Interestingly it appears British Taekwondo made an attempt to cease his IOM career last year. I figure the problem for BT is that we likely have the same scenarios coming up at the next olympics and even the final Grand Prix. http://seedofspeed.com/aaroncook.htm
He might still be world number 1 then too but will BT will pick him ?
Sansum has now moved next down to Muhammad at world 8. I think they changed the rules so that the world top 6 qualify above 7 onwards so, to me, likely 6th place would get a Team GB member(Sansum, the new favourite ?) the olympic spot.
With another newbie Khodabakhshi beating clear world no 1 Cook I almostvget the feeling that Team GB really gambled on the element of surprise in 2012.
I certainly saw a transfer move coming but not that exact one.
Despite him being world number 1, it looks likely one other Brit will end up top 6 so his been picked looked an impossibility.
Who would ultimately have the final say in whether Cook could switch - the BOA or British Taekwondo? If it's the latter then I fear they will block it.
I always sensed around the London 2012 decision that the BOA had a lot of sympathy for Cook. The reality is that their hands were tied a little - the BOA normally just rubber stamps selections and it would have been unprecedented for them to overturn a selection from one of the sports governing bodies. It would probably then have got very messy even involving lawyers and the BOA understandably perhaps thought that was a distraction they could do without in the run up to London.
Who would ultimately have the final say in whether Cook could switch - the BOA or British Taekwondo? If it's the latter then I fear they will block it.
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Comments
That doen't sound very ethical.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA.
Are you on the selection committee.
Aaron Cook was SEVENTEEN in Beijing. Seventeen. He is 21 now, same age as Mohammed but he competes in the right weight, he is European champion, he is world number 1 and he beat the guy who stuffed Mohammed both times he fought him.
In my opinion the Taekwondo format is flawed, they should have a round robin or group format before finals other than as it stands, its not boxing where safety stops u competing after a loss.
But regardless of that, one British 80kg taekwondo player has demonstrated the abiltiy to win gold. Aaron Cook. And he should have been competing
this is British Taekwondo where the World Number One in his weight division gets passed over.
are you Aaron Cook? :rolleyes:
Yes, possibly the last time ever that 'ethics' and 'British Taekwondo Selection Committee' will be mentioned in the same sentence
Yes, and Cook was more experienced, he left school at 15 and turned full time professional for the two years up to Beijing. Muhammad put university first and has only been able to be full time for the last year.
The world rankings are additive, just recording points gained from competitions in the last four years. Therefore the more active competitors are ranked higher. Cook gained points from 2009 when Muhammad wasn't competing in A Class and 2010 when Muhammad got to one A Class competition. Likewise the 2012 Euro Championships that Muhammad won doesn't count for the -80kg category because it was at a different weight class. For the record though, currently Muhammad is 11th in the world rankings, as well as being 4th in the -87kg category.
Oh, that's great, one week after the non-trying Badminton scandal showed the weaknesses of the round robin model. Anyway, the repechage does allow the strong fighter unlucky enough to get a tough opponent to still get a Bronze.
But if you accept that argument then Mohammad can never be selected for a World, Olympic or European competition as we're only allowed one fighter per weight. That's a ridiculous argument.
I am glad Mohammad won the bronze, and have nothing but respect and admiration for the guy. But that doesn't alter the fact that Cook was treated shabbily, and I can understand his bitterness. Cook was widely regarded as the better prospect, and deserved his chance. The rather mealy-mouthed explanations given by our selectors just sounds like clutching at straws, besides they said nothing until they were forced into a corner.
I don't think it matters what colour medal Mohammad won, the original decision to leave out Cook was clearly unjust.
That doesn't answer the question. To prove the selectors right, he had to get gold and he didn't. Kenny being picked over Hoy was arguably controversial but he got gold so the cycling selectors can be happy...if he hadn't they would have got a pasting as should the Taikwondo selectors.
As to whether Cook should have been selected ahead of him, yes there are still questions to answer around the transarency of the selection process. But for now I'm just happy to recognise GBs best ever performance in an Olympic games in a sport in which 10 years ago we problably never dreamt we could get any sort of medal.
I agree with this. Hopefully Lutalo will go from strength to strength and Aaron Cook too.
Anyone wanting to see how much pressure he was under and how it was affecting him need only go and watch his interview after he lost his QF and compare it to his interview after he won bronze. He looked like a man with the weight of the world on his shoulders in the first. I'm sure that pressure affected him in that loss and he would have had a better chance at gold if he'd just had a normal build up. So chuffed for him that he got a medal.
Yes there are still plenty of questions for GB Taekwondo but Lutalo doesn't have any questions to answer. He delivered a medal and has every right to be extremely proud. I still can't believe the awful racist thread that was posted earlier saying Aaron Cook was British and Lutalo wasn't based on the fact he is black and has an Islamic name. Lutalo is a London boy and he just won an Olympic medal in his back yard.
UK Sport allocate funding to sports based on Olympic and Paralympic medal potential. British Taekwondo got £2.7m for the Beijing cycle (2005-09), but as they performed better than their target their funding increased to £4.8m for the London cycle (2009-13). But with the increase in funding has come an increase in medal expectation. British Taekwondo needed whichever fighter they picked, Cook or Muhammad to win a medal, there's maybe £1m of future funding riding on that decision.
It's not logical that British Taekwondo risked £1m because they didn't like Cook, it's only logical if they thought Cook was an inferior fighter to Muhammad.
Personally, I think Cook lost selection when he went out in the first round of the 2011 World Championships. If Cook had performed well in that tournament, then he would have been picked.
Agree with most of what you say - well done to Jade & Lutalo but really hope their success means that the selection issue & complete lack of transparancy doesn't get swept under the carpet as a result.
Cook now has more incentive to move forwards.
"I've had a few learning experiences and haven't had the results I wanted," said Muhammad, who believes team-mate Damon Sansum will be a big threat in Manchester.."
I'm sure Cook, (the world number 1) will be a threat too. He is doing OK for a guy who trains in a shed in his back garden (he also got abandoned by UK Sport funding).
Interestingly it appears British Taekwondo made an attempt to cease his IOM career last year. I figure the problem for BT is that we likely have the same scenarios coming up at the next olympics and even the final Grand Prix.
http://seedofspeed.com/aaroncook.htm
He might still be world number 1 then too but will BT will pick him ?
Sansum has now moved next down to Muhammad at world 8. I think they changed the rules so that the world top 6 qualify above 7 onwards so, to me, likely 6th place would get a Team GB member(Sansum, the new favourite ?) the olympic spot.
With another newbie Khodabakhshi beating clear world no 1 Cook I almostvget the feeling that Team GB really gambled on the element of surprise in 2012.
Despite him being world number 1, it looks likely one other Brit will end up top 6 so his been picked looked an impossibility.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/taekwondo/32147428
Sort of reads like 'The BOA are invesitagting whether they can stick a 2nd knife into him'.
Lets hope not.
With 10th ranked Damon Sansum looking more the real deal this time, I'd like to see a Cook v Sansum Olympic final.
Who would ultimately have the final say in whether Cook could switch - the BOA or British Taekwondo? If it's the latter then I fear they will block it.
I always sensed around the London 2012 decision that the BOA had a lot of sympathy for Cook. The reality is that their hands were tied a little - the BOA normally just rubber stamps selections and it would have been unprecedented for them to overturn a selection from one of the sports governing bodies. It would probably then have got very messy even involving lawyers and the BOA understandably perhaps thought that was a distraction they could do without in the run up to London.
The BOA have approved the move..
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/taekwondo/32330617
He has been selected for the European games though...