And coming to visit them regularly if the ending of The Wedding of River Song is to be believed.
Yes, it was implied that Amy was used to having visits from River. There was a meteor shower or something ( I can't remember exactly what it was), so she got a bottle of wine in.
Yes, its definitely a good idea to rush to judgement on this now before anything is written, let alone filmed.
I bet he also says the word DALEEEEEKSSSS really oddly in one take that doesn't get used, that'll be another sign that he's the WORST DOCTOR EVER!
I think the best time to express concern over a hinted at change of character for the Doctor is before anything is written. There's a small possibility that our concern will be noted and will affect things. It will be too late if we wait until after his character is established!
Colin's doctor wasn`t unpopular because he was fierce, fiesty or arrogant. Its because one of the first things he did was throttle his companion, which wouldn't endear him to fan, and then he was a sniveling coward.
The longevity and mass audience appeal of John Thaw as Inspector Morse would suggest you're wrong.
The Third Doctor could be bad-tempered, impatient and condescending. But he remains one the most popular, and my own personal favourite.
I always found Pertwee's Doctor to be one of the more congenial ones. Like most Doctor's he rarely stopped to explain what he was thinking and, yes, he could be a bit impatient but he was always pretty kind to his assistants, I think.
The first Doctor was probably the most abrasive personality. He was often irascible and dismissive with his companions and in one early adventure even threatened to chuck the companions out of the TARDIS while it was still in flight :eek:
Initially he seemed to be quite selfish, not at all interested in hanging around to help with other people's problems but generally only helping because it was the only way to get back to the TARDIS.
He did mellow over time, though!
But I've always found Colin's TV Doctor to be the most unlikeable. He was unreasonably rude to Peri quite a lot and seemed to be quite selfish and self-absorbed. The Trial thing was just confusing as they kept showing him being unreasonably nasty but we were never sure if what we were watching was a fabrication :rolleyes:
He's one of my favourites now, due to his work after the show for Big Finish. In the audios his character became much more likeable and Colin himself has always been a great proponent and enthusiast for Doctor Who.
I've no problem with the new Doctor becoming irascible or bad tempered or even unintentionally rude as long as he doesn't become intentionally nasty to people who don't deserve it and doesn't abandon the core values that we've come to associate with pretty much every incarnation.
I Agree and disagree. I very much see the flirting, it's both ways and feels right - i think it's coming over as instinctive and natural. But i do agree that i don't want the flirting to move on to romance. Too much of that in the new who.
Maybe we have a different definition of flirting:D. I would call it friendly interaction, I didn't get a vibe or anything. The Doctor was far too concerned to analyse her to find out, why she was the impossible girl. The modern day Clara, IMO, didn't seem to have any flirty, romantic feelings either.
I have no problem with this at all provided they pull it off well.
The idea behind Colin Baker's Doctor that he'd be initially slightly unlikeable, but that over time we'd begin to see the nicer side of him wasn't actually a bad idea....
...but what ended up happening was that he was protrayed as being extremely unlikeable (cowardly, violent, arrogant) in his first story which just so happened to be one of Doctor Who's worst ever stories and which was tacked on at the end of a season (meaning it would be almost a year before the next story) after one of the best Doctor Who stories of all time.
Then he was sacked after only 2 years so we never got to see his character develop properly.
If Colin Baker's era had gotten off to a better start, I firmly believe he would be a much more popular Doctor. Perhaps he also wouldn't have been used as a scapegoat and would have stayed on much longer than he did.
So if Moffat can get Capaldi's first episode right, I think everything will be fine.
I have no problem with this at all provided they pull it off well.
The idea behind Colin Baker's Doctor that he'd be initially slightly unlikeable, but that over time we'd begin to see the nicer side of him wasn't actually a bad idea....
...but what ended up happening was that he was protrayed as being extremely unlikeable (cowardly, violent, arrogant) in his first story which just so happened to be one of Doctor Who's worst ever stories and which was tacked on at the end of a season (meaning it would be almost a year before the next story) after one of the best Doctor Who stories of all time.
Then he was sacked after only 2 years so we never got to see his character develop properly.
If Colin Baker's era had gotten off to a better start, I firmly believe he would be a much more popular Doctor. Perhaps he also wouldn't have been used as a scapegoat and would have stayed on much longer than he did.
So if Moffat can get Capaldi's first episode right, I think everything will be fine.
I have not been heartened to hear Moffat's recent description of his vision for Capaldi's Twelve.
Words he keeps using like 'Fierce'.
Stating that where Clara (who supposedly becomes enamoured with Eleven over the next two episodes, somewhat inexplicably) suddenly gets snapped out of it by someone who is 'completely different to Matt'.
Considering what a very sweet & convivial Doctor Matt has been, the complete opposite would tend to indicate a foul tempered d!ck.
"Fierce".... That word again keeps echoing around my head.
I'm starting to suspect that Moffat is setting us up for Colin Baker v2.0 - the least popular Doctor ever.
Think we will see a darker doctor. We allready know that from NOTD. Looking forward to it . New adventures , new freinds, new alliens. Sure there will be some laughs and good moments. 12 could save and help a lot of people with Clara and others.
I have no problem with this at all provided they pull it off well.
The idea behind Colin Baker's Doctor that he'd be initially slightly unlikeable, but that over time we'd begin to see the nicer side of him wasn't actually a bad idea....
...but what ended up happening was that he was protrayed as being extremely unlikeable (cowardly, violent, arrogant) in his first story which just so happened to be one of Doctor Who's worst ever stories and which was tacked on at the end of a season (meaning it would be almost a year before the next story) after one of the best Doctor Who stories of all time.
Then he was sacked after only 2 years so we never got to see his character develop properly.
If Colin Baker's era had gotten off to a better start, I firmly believe he would be a much more popular Doctor. Perhaps he also wouldn't have been used as a scapegoat and would have stayed on much longer than he did.
So if Moffat can get Capaldi's first episode right, I think everything will be fine.
I'd concede that the portrayal of the new Doctor in Twin Dilemma might not have been quite so damaging if it had been at the start of Colin's first series, rather than appearing at the end of Peter's last. But I don't think it would ever have been a good idea.
Clara will have to take time to get use to the new doctor.Depends what he has to do in the first episode. Hope he will hit the ground running. Question is will 12 be the last doctor ?. Moffat has allready shown us the doctors future grave. Meaning he could be running out of time and regenerations. He loves his freinds but he allways ends up alone. Maybe we will see him close the tardis door one last time as he heads back to trenzalore...
Yeah, but you're picking that one word in isolation and ignoring the rest of what he said.
I'm picking one word, but it was kind of the whole crux of the OP's argument.
There was something about "The opposite to Matt Smith" in there too, but I thought the argument that "because Matt Smith's Doctor was nice, and Peter Capaldi is going to be the opposite, this means Peter Capaldi's Doctor must be nasty" was a little spurious, so I didn't fancy talking about it.
If you're asking what I think, though... I think it's a little spurious!
Is it just me or does this comment from Moffat: “One of the horrors of regeneration is that a certain amount of his persona alters entirely. His appetites and his enthusiasms will change. And that’s sort of what I’m writing about now in Matt’s last episode, the fact that he’s terribly aware that he’s about to be rewritten. And it’s frightening.” sound like he's taking Tennant's "much loved and welcomed" last line and turing it into the basis for Matt's last story?
I think he's scared of losing Clara. Clara travelled with, and cares about this Doctor, who he is. And he's terrified by the idea of pushing her away by completely changing who he is to the point where he might even scare her away. Especially as it sounds like this regeneration will be tough on Clara.
According to this: http://www.doctorwhotv.co.uk/moffats-12th-doctor-hints-52620.htm
In the new Doctor Who magazine (which I don't read) "Moffat likens the situation to Tom Baker’s first season: “He’s really quite difficult to take at the beginning, and you’re very grateful that Sarah and the Brigadier are there to reassure you.”
Which should reassure anyone. Tom Baker cannot be described as an unpopular Doctor and season 12 is far from being hated.
So again, if Moffat can pull this off (which I have no doubt he will) then everything should be fine.
According to this: http://www.doctorwhotv.co.uk/moffats-12th-doctor-hints-52620.htm
In the new Doctor Who magazine (which I don't read) "Moffat likens the situation to Tom Baker’s first season: “He’s really quite difficult to take at the beginning, and you’re very grateful that Sarah and the Brigadier are there to reassure you.”
Which should reassure anyone. Tom Baker cannot be described as an unpopular Doctor and season 12 is far from being hated.
So again, if Moffat can pull this off (which I have no doubt he will) then everything should be fine.
I liked Tom Baker's Doctor from the start, so don't really relate to Moffat's comparison. Series 12 is a bit of a mixed bag though; there's some great stuff, but there's also less good stuff, and then there's Revenge of the Cybermen.
Comments
And coming to visit them regularly if the ending of The Wedding of River Song is to be believed.
Yes, it was implied that Amy was used to having visits from River. There was a meteor shower or something ( I can't remember exactly what it was), so she got a bottle of wine in.
I think you may have mistaken our compliance with the forum terms & conditions for a 'welcome'. :sleep:
I think the best time to express concern over a hinted at change of character for the Doctor is before anything is written. There's a small possibility that our concern will be noted and will affect things. It will be too late if we wait until after his character is established!
The longevity and mass audience appeal of John Thaw as Inspector Morse would suggest you're wrong.
The Third Doctor could be bad-tempered, impatient and condescending. But he remains one of the most popular, and my own personal favourite.
I always found Pertwee's Doctor to be one of the more congenial ones. Like most Doctor's he rarely stopped to explain what he was thinking and, yes, he could be a bit impatient but he was always pretty kind to his assistants, I think.
The first Doctor was probably the most abrasive personality. He was often irascible and dismissive with his companions and in one early adventure even threatened to chuck the companions out of the TARDIS while it was still in flight :eek:
Initially he seemed to be quite selfish, not at all interested in hanging around to help with other people's problems but generally only helping because it was the only way to get back to the TARDIS.
He did mellow over time, though!
But I've always found Colin's TV Doctor to be the most unlikeable. He was unreasonably rude to Peri quite a lot and seemed to be quite selfish and self-absorbed. The Trial thing was just confusing as they kept showing him being unreasonably nasty but we were never sure if what we were watching was a fabrication :rolleyes:
He's one of my favourites now, due to his work after the show for Big Finish. In the audios his character became much more likeable and Colin himself has always been a great proponent and enthusiast for Doctor Who.
I've no problem with the new Doctor becoming irascible or bad tempered or even unintentionally rude as long as he doesn't become intentionally nasty to people who don't deserve it and doesn't abandon the core values that we've come to associate with pretty much every incarnation.
Maybe we have a different definition of flirting:D. I would call it friendly interaction, I didn't get a vibe or anything. The Doctor was far too concerned to analyse her to find out, why she was the impossible girl. The modern day Clara, IMO, didn't seem to have any flirty, romantic feelings either.
The idea behind Colin Baker's Doctor that he'd be initially slightly unlikeable, but that over time we'd begin to see the nicer side of him wasn't actually a bad idea....
...but what ended up happening was that he was protrayed as being extremely unlikeable (cowardly, violent, arrogant) in his first story which just so happened to be one of Doctor Who's worst ever stories and which was tacked on at the end of a season (meaning it would be almost a year before the next story) after one of the best Doctor Who stories of all time.
Then he was sacked after only 2 years so we never got to see his character develop properly.
If Colin Baker's era had gotten off to a better start, I firmly believe he would be a much more popular Doctor. Perhaps he also wouldn't have been used as a scapegoat and would have stayed on much longer than he did.
So if Moffat can get Capaldi's first episode right, I think everything will be fine.
Very good post. Spot on.
Fiercely loyal. Fiercely protective. Fiercely vigilant.
Fierceness is not a negative trait.
Yeah, but you're picking that one word in isolation and ignoring the rest of what he said.
I'd concede that the portrayal of the new Doctor in Twin Dilemma might not have been quite so damaging if it had been at the start of Colin's first series, rather than appearing at the end of Peter's last. But I don't think it would ever have been a good idea.
I'm picking one word, but it was kind of the whole crux of the OP's argument.
There was something about "The opposite to Matt Smith" in there too, but I thought the argument that "because Matt Smith's Doctor was nice, and Peter Capaldi is going to be the opposite, this means Peter Capaldi's Doctor must be nasty" was a little spurious, so I didn't fancy talking about it.
If you're asking what I think, though... I think it's a little spurious!
I think he's scared of losing Clara. Clara travelled with, and cares about this Doctor, who he is. And he's terrified by the idea of pushing her away by completely changing who he is to the point where he might even scare her away. Especially as it sounds like this regeneration will be tough on Clara.
Nice to see this acknowledged given the high AI score and continuing popularity in yougov polls of the Tenth doctor.
In the new Doctor Who magazine (which I don't read) "Moffat likens the situation to Tom Baker’s first season: “He’s really quite difficult to take at the beginning, and you’re very grateful that Sarah and the Brigadier are there to reassure you.”
Which should reassure anyone. Tom Baker cannot be described as an unpopular Doctor and season 12 is far from being hated.
So again, if Moffat can pull this off (which I have no doubt he will) then everything should be fine.
I liked Tom Baker's Doctor from the start, so don't really relate to Moffat's comparison. Series 12 is a bit of a mixed bag though; there's some great stuff, but there's also less good stuff, and then there's Revenge of the Cybermen.
It wasn't really a part of the story, and I think a Doctor screwed up in that way was an awful idea.