Watched both films starring The Joker and just wondered would it not be kinder for Gotham if he killed the clown rather then him escaping and killing hundreds of innocent people?
Well that would just make him a murderer, I don't know how you could root for a superhero who kills. I think in the comics (which I haven't read) it's the same too where Batman won't kill, it's his one rule that separates him from a lot of other vigilantes.
Well that would just make him a murderer, I don't know how you could root for a superhero who kills. I think in the comics (which I haven't read) it's the same too where Batman won't kill, it's his one rule that separates him from a lot of other vigilantes.
I read an interview with Chris and Jonathan Nolan in which they said they found that rule a bit difficult, but tried to follow it and the closest they got to breaking it was with the "I'm not going to kill you, but that doesn't mean I have to save you either" bit at the end of Batman Begins...
Watched both films starring The Joker and just wondered would it not be kinder for Gotham if he killed the clown rather then him escaping and killing hundreds of innocent people?
Well he dies in the Tim Burton movie.
Also, I recommend watching The Dark Knight Returns animated movie, or reading the original comic.
Well that would just make him a murderer, I don't know how you could root for a superhero who kills. I think in the comics (which I haven't read) it's the same too where Batman won't kill, it's his one rule that separates him from a lot of other vigilantes.
Doesn't apply here but I wouldn't necessarily have a problem rooting for a superhero who kills his enemies.
I read an interview with Chris and Jonathan Nolan in which they said they found that rule a bit difficult, but tried to follow it and the closest they got to breaking it was with the "I'm not going to kill you, but that doesn't mean I have to save you either" bit at the end of Batman Begins...
Yeah I think there's an emphasis on the 'not being an executioner' element in the Nolan trilogy. When I said that Batman doesn't 'kill' in my OP, what I should've said is that Batman doesn't set out to murder anyone (since he pushed Harvey Dent to his death in TDK). And despite all the best efforts of The Joker, Batman refuses to kill him because of his 'one rule'.
I haven't seen Batman 1989 in ages but wasn't that The Joker's doing? I remember him clinching onto the ledge and then letting go, falling to his death.
Doesn't apply here but I wouldn't necessarily have a problem rooting for a superhero who kills his enemies.
Fair enough, I just have this idea in my mind that superheroes shouldn't set out to murder anyone unless forced to in an impossible scenario. I've just remembered the scene in Man of Steel where Superman
kills Zod
. A lot of people went insane over that decision but I thought it was one of the better scenes in a so-so movie. Oh well, I suppose I can be flexible when superheroes are faced with certain decisions
I haven't seen Batman 1989 in ages but wasn't that The Joker's doing? I remember him clinching onto the ledge and then letting go, falling to his death.
Yeah, that's how he died in that movie (That's why I said he died, rather than was killed by Batman). I only mentioned it really to note that in the continuity of that particular run of movies his death meant there would be no ongoing game of cat and mouse, or subsequent death of hundreds of innocents that usually would go along with it.
Fair enough, I just have this idea in my mind that superheroes shouldn't set out to murder anyone unless forced to in an impossible scenario. I've just remembered the scene in Man of Steel where Superman
kills Zod
. A lot of people went insane over that decision but I thought it was one of the better scenes in a so-so movie. Oh well, I suppose I can be flexible when superheroes are faced with certain decisions
I think the MoS outcry was mostly because some people felt it messed with the nature and character of a long time established superhero, who had always been depicted as having a strong moral code. To a lesser extent Batman also falls into that category, which is why I mentioned that it doesn't apply here. But if a new superhero came along and that's just how he was from day one, then sure.
I haven't seen Batman 1989 in ages but wasn't that The Joker's doing? I remember him clinching onto the ledge and then letting go, falling to his death.
Fair enough, I just have this idea in my mind that superheroes shouldn't set out to murder anyone unless forced to in an impossible scenario. I've just remembered the scene in Man of Steel where Superman
kills Zod
. A lot of people went insane over that decision but I thought it was one of the better scenes in a so-so movie. Oh well, I suppose I can be flexible when superheroes are faced with certain decisions
The Joker fell over the ledge of the building. Then he grabbed Batman and the woman over. Turns out he landed on another ledge just below. He starts stamping on Batmans hand then decides to climb the rope ladder to his getaway helicopter. Batman then gets his gadget and shoots it. It ties around Jokers ankle and a statue on the top of the building. The statue breaks off meaning eventually Joker can no longer hold on as he insists on trying to climb instead of coming back down.
He falls to his death... Batrman killed him in my opinion...
And again, in the most recent film. Where there was outcry. I think it depends on their immediate predicament. Though it's always contrived so they can be disarmed, and left to be arrested.
batman is only trying to STOP the joker get away, by tying him to the gargoyle, it was the jokers CHOICE of holding on the the ladder ..... the gargoyle breaking off the church ledge, and by then joker didn't have anywhere to go!
same as in the killing joke, we don't actually KNOW if he killed joker or not, but after what he did you wouldn't blame him!
as for superman 2 ..... all superman did was reverse the chamber so they would lose their powers, actuallt felt sorry for nom ..... mind you ursa getting popped by lois was damn funny
batman is only trying to STOP the joker get away, by tying him to the gargoyle, it was the jokers CHOICE of holding on the the ladder ..... the gargoyle breaking off the church ledge, and by then joker didn't have anywhere to go!
same as in the killing joke, we don't actually KNOW if he killed joker or not, but after what he did you wouldn't blame him!
as for superman 2 ..... all superman did was reverse the chamber so they would lose their powers, actuallt felt sorry for nom ..... mind you ursa getting popped by lois was damn funny
zod in man of steel was just tragic in a BAD WAY!
Does that make it better? He still played an actual part in his death?
I really liked that ending. It was a brave move to put Superman in a no-win situation where...
he either has to kill or let civilians die.
None of that Deus Ex Machina nonsense with turning back time or secretly using a de-powering mechanism which had previously been shown as extremely traumatic and noticeable.
The Batman universe is basically Batman/(Robin)/Joker/Riddler/Penguin - the rules state that you can't kill any of them - at least if you want to make another sequel.
Re: Batman 89 - Batman punched Joker over the top of the cathedral. As it happens Joker landed on a ledge but to all intents and purposes Batman intended for him to die when he punched him.
I think the idea to kill Joker would make Batman no better than every criminals he has sworn to put away. He maybe thinks killing him isn't enough or won't even spare the lives of thousands. Joker could kill more if Batman won't kill him, but his main goal is to actively keep Joker from committing crimes. Change him maybe? I know it doesn't make sense at all but I believe Batman will rather choose living innocently over being a murderer like Joker.
Comments
I read an interview with Chris and Jonathan Nolan in which they said they found that rule a bit difficult, but tried to follow it and the closest they got to breaking it was with the "I'm not going to kill you, but that doesn't mean I have to save you either" bit at the end of Batman Begins...
Well he dies in the Tim Burton movie.
Also, I recommend watching The Dark Knight Returns animated movie, or reading the original comic.
Doesn't apply here but I wouldn't necessarily have a problem rooting for a superhero who kills his enemies.
Yeah I think there's an emphasis on the 'not being an executioner' element in the Nolan trilogy. When I said that Batman doesn't 'kill' in my OP, what I should've said is that Batman doesn't set out to murder anyone (since he pushed Harvey Dent to his death in TDK). And despite all the best efforts of The Joker, Batman refuses to kill him because of his 'one rule'.
I haven't seen Batman 1989 in ages but wasn't that The Joker's doing? I remember him clinching onto the ledge and then letting go, falling to his death.
Fair enough, I just have this idea in my mind that superheroes shouldn't set out to murder anyone unless forced to in an impossible scenario. I've just remembered the scene in Man of Steel where Superman
Yeah, that's how he died in that movie (That's why I said he died, rather than was killed by Batman). I only mentioned it really to note that in the continuity of that particular run of movies his death meant there would be no ongoing game of cat and mouse, or subsequent death of hundreds of innocents that usually would go along with it.
I think the MoS outcry was mostly because some people felt it messed with the nature and character of a long time established superhero, who had always been depicted as having a strong moral code. To a lesser extent Batman also falls into that category, which is why I mentioned that it doesn't apply here. But if a new superhero came along and that's just how he was from day one, then sure.
The Joker fell over the ledge of the building. Then he grabbed Batman and the woman over. Turns out he landed on another ledge just below. He starts stamping on Batmans hand then decides to climb the rope ladder to his getaway helicopter. Batman then gets his gadget and shoots it. It ties around Jokers ankle and a statue on the top of the building. The statue breaks off meaning eventually Joker can no longer hold on as he insists on trying to climb instead of coming back down.
He falls to his death... Batrman killed him in my opinion...
www.youtube.com/watch?v=jUORL-bvwA0
And again, in the most recent film. Where there was outcry. I think it depends on their immediate predicament. Though it's always contrived so they can be disarmed, and left to be arrested.
He dies, but Batman doesn't kill him.
Read on.
He does in my opinion.
batman is only trying to STOP the joker get away, by tying him to the gargoyle, it was the jokers CHOICE of holding on the the ladder ..... the gargoyle breaking off the church ledge, and by then joker didn't have anywhere to go!
same as in the killing joke, we don't actually KNOW if he killed joker or not, but after what he did you wouldn't blame him!
as for superman 2 ..... all superman did was reverse the chamber so they would lose their powers, actuallt felt sorry for nom ..... mind you ursa getting popped by lois was damn funny
zod in man of steel was just tragic in a BAD WAY!
Does that make it better? He still played an actual part in his death?
The Batman universe is basically Batman/(Robin)/Joker/Riddler/Penguin - the rules state that you can't kill any of them - at least if you want to make another sequel.
No, he didn't. He just took away their powers. The three supervillains were arrested.
Plus he kills at least one henchman (the strong man) in Batman Returns and sets fire to another.