At the end of the day, it's easy for us to say Boyle is more vulnerable because of her learning disorders but no-one knows what level of subtle dysfunctions has destroyed the self-esteem and the emotional wellbeing of people like Price, Marsh, Winehouse, Britney, LiLo et al who on the surface, seem to have it all. People like Katona it is clear to see what went wrong there but they are all vulnerable and the public are happy to rip them to shreds. Healthy happy confident people don't end up in their situations.
But she is more vulnerable,there is absolutely no doubt about it, , Unfortunately I also have my share of run-ins with the mental health services, but you cannot compare people like me that for whatever reason became emotionally very fragile with a person that even if she tries very hard will always be a victim of the limitations that she was born with. I'm not at all saying that she is suffering more or less than persons like you me, or Britney, but people like us are fully equipped to try to change the way we deal with our lives on that level, something that the Boyles of this world will have a terrible hard time trying.
I agree with your idea but also most of the people I know (including my poor much mentioned mum) would also benefit greatly by having that type of support too. Most people with mental -or- as I prefer to say, emotional disorders, just need stability, back-up, someone to bounce their ideas off, set them straight, be honest, someone to be THERE for them because many many many didn't have it in their childhoods. There is a perception that they need to be 'challenged' or 'learn to stand of their own two feet' but most have spent their whole lives trying to cope alone, developing dysfunctional coping strategies, and just being 'challenged' by life itself and they just need support. My mum was at her wellest and most stable when she had the continued support of a Social Worker. Unfortunately, the NHS changes made that system no longer available to her.
I'm sorry to hear that, the services available definitely leave much to be desired
I can relate to people mistakenly thinking they need to learn to "stand on their own two feet", yes they need independence, but they need support to maintain that independence. Being left to cope alone is only going to end in disaster - as has clearly happened to Susan
I mentioned in another thread, I care for someone with learning difficulties. No one from the 'professional' services wants to know. It's left entirely up to the family to care for them. I read Susan lost her Mum 2 years ago, the rest of her family are clearly not looking out for her. She definitely needs an advocate to keep an eye on her, I hate that the services available in this country are so bad, they're letting down a huge section of society who need and deserve some support.
Regardless, in a case like Boyle, they clearly would have sectioned her had she not agreed to stay voluntarily, that is blatantly obvious. She is lucky to be in private treatment.
There is nothing clear or blatently obvious about it. Not unless you have read her medical notes, in which case you wouldn't be able to say.
It is entirely possible to be voluntarily admitted to a pscyhicatric unit without otherwise having been sectioned. I am very good friends with a psychiatrist and it's very hard for him to section someone, but it is quite easy for him to recommend someone be admitted for treatment. The show is probably paying for it, if not out of a sense of responsibility to her, it's out of a sense of covering their backs and getting a medical professional to have the final say on whether or not she's fit to work.
Her situation might be serious, but it is also quite plausible that she just needs to get away from it all and to be under the care of people who know how to help her.
She's obviously found it hard to cope with the last week or so, but that doesn't mean that she won't be able to cope with life in general, given the right support. To assume otherwise is irresponsible.
I'm sorry to hear that, the services available definitely leave much to be desired
I can relate to people mistakenly thinking they need to learn to "stand on their own two feet", yes they need independence, but they need support to maintain that independence. Being left to cope alone is only going to end in disaster - as has clearly happened to Susan
I mentioned in another thread, I care for someone with learning difficulties. No one from the 'professional' services wants to know. It's left entirely up to the family to care for them. I read Susan lost her Mum 2 years ago, the rest of her family are clearly not looking out for her. She definitely needs an advocate to keep an eye on her, I hate that the services available in this country are so bad, they're letting down a huge section of society who need and deserve some support.
I discovered, when I was working with learning disabled students, there was LOTS of support available whilst they were in education - which they can access until 25 years old - but after that, zilch.
There is nothing clear or blatently obvious about it. Not unless you have read her medical notes, in which case you wouldn't be able to say.
It is entirely possible to be voluntarily admitted to a pscyhicatric unit without otherwise having been sectioned. I am very good friends with a psychiatrist and it's very hard for him to section someone, but it is quite easy for him to recommend someone be admitted for treatment. The show is probably paying for it, if not out of a sense of responsibility to her, it's out of a sense of covering their backs and getting a medical professional to have the final say on whether or not she's fit to work.
Her situation might be serious, but it is also quite plausible that she just needs to get away from it all and to be under the care of people who know how to help her.
She's obviously found it hard to cope with the last week or so, but that doesn't mean that she won't be able to cope with life in general, given the right support. To assume otherwise is irresponsible.
I agree with you totally, in my PERSONAL opinion, she just needs a bit of rest, some mental support and she'll be back on track in no time. If the media stops pressuring her, and if she takes it easy this time around she'll be fine.
There is nothing clear or blatently obvious about it. Not unless you have read her medical notes, in which case you wouldn't be able to say.
It is entirely possible to be voluntarily admitted to a pscyhicatric unit without otherwise having been sectioned. I am very good friends with a psychiatrist and it's very hard for him to section someone, but it is quite easy for him to recommend someone be admitted for treatment. The show is probably paying for it, if not out of a sense of responsibility to her, it's out of a sense of covering their backs and getting a medical professional to have the final say on whether or not she's fit to work.
Her situation might be serious, but it is also quite plausible that she just needs to get away from it all and to be under the care of people who know how to help her.
She's obviously found it hard to cope with the last week or so, but that doesn't mean that she won't be able to cope with life in general, given the right support. To assume otherwise is irresponsible.
It is obvious to me because I've so much first hand experience of sectioning and hospital admissions. The NHS M/H workers are very reluctant to section anyone nowadays because that makes them legally culpabable for anything that happens to that person / that the person does. However it is nigh impossible to have yourself voluntarily admitted. It's a kind of Catch 22 - someone can be brought in by an ambulance and the police because they have been acting psychotic / delusional / or presented a threat to other people's lives. As far as I can gather, it was hotel staff who alerted the authorities. At that point, where it is clear the person needs admission, psychiatrists are far happier to persuade the person to enter voluntarily.
Conversely, should a person feel very ill, or be aware they are slipping into the symptoms of whatever illness , they would be considered too self-aware to need admission -or- worse yet, attention seeking. In the recent past, my family and I have had to fight tooth and nail to have my mum admitted when she was a danger to herself and others and in deep psychosis. That never used to be the case.
I would say 'it's a London thing' but unfortunately, my mum lives up North so I have seen how it works both here in London and up North and it's equally bad.
Boyle is stating she is homesick and wants to go home. That is a bit of a clue to the reality of the situation. The one good thing of not being sectioned is that it won't be held against her on paper for the rest of her life.
Conversely, should a person feel very ill, or be aware they are slipping into the symptoms of whatever illness , they would be considered too self-aware to need admission -or- worse yet, attention seeking. In the recent past, my family and I have had to fight tooth and nail to have my mum admitted when she was a danger to herself and others and in deep psychosis. That never used to be the case.
This is so true, i never understood why, I have a very close friend that clearly needed admitance to a mental health hospital, being a danger to others and particularly to his single mother that he lived with, and even after the police was called several times due to his behaviour,she was unable to section him, exactly because he was "deemed" to be too self aware to be inside. Although what theu called "self aware" to us was a personality that we never seen before. In the end the mother was the one that ended being sectioned (by her own will)because she tried to kill herself several being unable to handle the situation. But even then he would visit her in the mental health hospital creating disturbances, and still no one had the power to do anything...
She can't cope with the media attention, and it's sad because this was her dream, albeit one that seems to have turned into a nightmare.
Bless her, she could be anyone's auntie, sister or daughter, but she's so vulnerable and it's quite horrid to see how the world wants a piece of her at any price.
I just read on sky news that indeed the producers were the ones who called in the doctor's. She is clearly a vulnerable woman, but no less so then most, if she has indeed led a sheltered life than her reactions to people seem quite in proportion to how many of us would react. I think she has been manipulated so much that she'd agree to anything.
Has anyone read Ben Elton(not my favourite author) Chart throb? His books on reality TV really make you feel extremely cynical about these programmes.
The Priory does not just deal with mental health. Anorexics and bulimics go there. people go in for various reasons. Jade went in for depression and quickly came out when she realised she had to go to group therapies! I was concerned about Susan on Saturday, she looked spaced out and I wonder if she was on some sort of sedative.
I hope the rest will do Susan good. I do doubt whether she will go onto make a career of her singing, she is a fairly modest soul and this has all been too much for her.
It is obvious to me because I've so much first hand experience of sectioning and hospital admissions.
You will have experience of one particular bit of the NHS. That doesn't mean the same rules apply everywhere else.
I'm close friends with a psychiatrist who is trained in both the legal and medical requirements for sectioning and voluntary admission and even though he's one of those rubbish (according to you) NHS pyschiatrists, he seems to think most of the people he treats are there voluntarily and not because they've been sectioned or threated with being sectioned.
Perhaps he's been doing it wrong all of these years, but perhaps the people at The Priory do it wrong too.
In particular, as you seem to have such a downer on the NHS and the psychiatric resources (and there are regional shortages of psychiatrists) then perhaps your experiences are due to local shortages and not because of good clinical policy.
As Susan is being treated at The Priory, presumably being paid for by someone, then the issue of resources becomes irrelevant and it is really perfectly possible that someone will be admitted because they think it will do them good, even though they would have no legal ability to force them into that treatment.
The majority of psychiatric patients would never meet the criteria that would require them to be sectioned. The range of mental health problems extends well beyond those strict definitions. It is entirely wrong to say that if someone admits themselves into a private hospital for therapy of some sorts that they would have been sectioned.
Of course it is possible that she met the criteria to be sectioned, but was offered the opportunity to admit herself, but it is in no way that we can assume it. Going around insisting that someone admitted to a psychiatric facility must have been psychotic is extremely unhelpful because it is just the sort of thing that puts people off seeking help for fear of what other people will think.
This poor woman was plucked from obscurity because of her image that didn't match her voice.
She's been shipped here, interviewed there, had this plucked and semi-dyed and for what...so a bunch of vain judges could get a little more publicity. This is the fame game..one minute you're in and the next it's "oh sorry you're not needed now."
I say kudos to her for what she did and if she has any learning disability on top of that she gets even more respect.
Susan Boyle was never mentally well in the first place. She apparently was born after a lack of oxygen to her brain which caused her to have mental health issues throughout her life. She is known by a few nicknames in the local area, including 'Rambo' as she is unable to manage her temper.
I get the feeling that those ar*eholes in the BGT camp are now sidestepping away, hands behind their back, whistling and claiming 'we didn't know'. Well as far as I'm concerned, it was obvious from the outset. I said it when I first saw her - so if I worked it out and I've never even actually met the woman, then I'm sure those on BGT had sussed it out.
They should hang their heads for what they have done. I'm not saying a mentally unstable person shouldn't make it in the industry but she should have been protected. They let her down and threw her to the lions - the British Press.
Susan Boyle was never mentally well in the first place. She apparently was born after a lack of oxygen to her brain which caused her to have mental health issues throughout her life. She is known by a few nicknames in the local area, including 'Rambo' as she is unable to manage her temper.
I get the feeling that those ar*eholes in the BGT camp are now sidestepping away, hands behind their back, whistling and claiming 'we didn't know'. Well as far as I'm concerned, it was obvious from the outset. I said it when I first saw her - so if I worked it out and I've never even actually met the woman, then I'm sure those on BGT had sussed it out.
They should hang their heads for what they have done. I'm not saying a mentally unstable person shouldn't make it in the industry but she should have been protected. They let her down and threw her to the lions - the British Press.
The Priory does not just deal with mental health. Anorexics and bulimics go there. people go in for various reasons. Jade went in for depression and quickly came out when she realised she had to go to group therapies! I was concerned about Susan on Saturday, she looked spaced out and I wonder if she was on some sort of sedative.
I hope the rest will do Susan good. I do doubt whether she will go onto make a career of her singing, she is a fairly modest soul and this has all been too much for her.
The heartening thing about this thread, though, despite some of the differences over semantics, is that the vast majority of posters are very sympathetic to Susan Boyle and her situation. There will be handfuls of detractors, but if these are the sentiments expressed by most people, hopefully she will be treated with respect, wherever she goes.
The heartening thing about this thread, though, despite some of the differences over semantics, is that the vast majority of posters are very sympathetic to Susan Boyle and her situation. There will be handfuls of detractors, but if these are the sentiments expressed by most people, hopefully she will be treated with respect, wherever she goes.
I hope so too, poor lady, I'm praying she gets the support and coping strategies she needs to get through whatever her future holds.
At the auditions we went to, we were instructed to boo, jeer and shout "off off off" for about 15 minutes nonstop and this was all edited in, making it look like the audience reaction to various acts was anything other than total apathy (which is was a lot of the time, 90% of the acts were dreadfully boring:))
Who would've thunk it, cynical manipulation from the makers of trash television for the great unwashed.
Hope those disgusting people will leave her alone when she 'recovers' but sadly I fear that will not be the case:( What kind of life is this woman going to have now? Hounded by paps and apparently people in her local community already bully and tease her. She doesn't have the millions of pounds required to pay for seclusion, privacy, and personal protection - she's just churned out for their vile entertainment and thrown to the dogs.:mad:
As much as I agree with this, she doesn't have the same kind of protection that many in her situation have - in the way of a supportive family. I am sure that if your mother were to try and audition for something like this you would stop her. The excuse that appearing on television and all that it entailed was not considered by her 'well-meaning' neighbours and friends will only hold water for so long. We have seen the vilification of attention seekers on shows like Big Brother, Pop Idol etc for years (and now a decade in the case of Big Brother) so only those hiding under a rock would have been unaware of the risks of public exposure if you have even a modicum of talent, but for all that she has a good voice the whole "she had an ugly exterior therefore the voice was unexpected" is a bit cliched...wasn't the same said about Paul Potts?
It's indeed unfortunate, but anyone with any kind of experience of people with mental disorders or learning disabilities would have noticed Susan Boyle's less than 'consistent' behaviour and you are right, the show was looking out for an underdog with a story.
The only thing that stops me feeling an increasing amount of pity for her is that she is not a 'one-time' performer, she appeared in local talent shows etc before...It is not only down to the show though - if she had anyone at all (these neighbours etc) who cared about her at all shouldn't they have been there to offer advice?
The NHS M/H workers are very reluctant to section anyone nowadays because that makes them legally culpabable for anything that happens to that person / that the person does. However it is nigh impossible to have yourself voluntarily admitted.
Oh gosh, I feel so sorry for Susan. Poor lady, I would imagine everyone would find it hard to cope with such sudden and intense fame. I can't even imagine the pressure of being under such public scrutiny, people so quick to jump on any negative thing they can about you. I know I would crumble. I despise the media...build someone up just to knock them down. They do it all the time. Look at all the stars who have had meltdowns (Lindsay, Britney, Nicole, Kerry, etc) - it is really sad.
I hope she can get through this. I was in the Priory when I was anorexic and it was a wonderful place, I'd be much much worse off without it. I'm confident Susan will begin to feel better while she is there, as it will be such a safe and supportive place for her. Good luck to her
Yeah, I personally found it easy to be voluntarily admitted to the Priory - I asked to go along for an assessment and was admitted to the ward within 2 weeks of that.
Then again at nearly £4500 a week I'm not surprised they are so quick to admit people I suppose if you aren't self-funding then it's harder to get treatment.
Comments
Look at these sick buggers discussing if she might die!
But she is more vulnerable,there is absolutely no doubt about it, , Unfortunately I also have my share of run-ins with the mental health services, but you cannot compare people like me that for whatever reason became emotionally very fragile with a person that even if she tries very hard will always be a victim of the limitations that she was born with. I'm not at all saying that she is suffering more or less than persons like you me, or Britney, but people like us are fully equipped to try to change the way we deal with our lives on that level, something that the Boyles of this world will have a terrible hard time trying.
I'm sorry to hear that, the services available definitely leave much to be desired
I can relate to people mistakenly thinking they need to learn to "stand on their own two feet", yes they need independence, but they need support to maintain that independence. Being left to cope alone is only going to end in disaster - as has clearly happened to Susan
I mentioned in another thread, I care for someone with learning difficulties. No one from the 'professional' services wants to know. It's left entirely up to the family to care for them. I read Susan lost her Mum 2 years ago, the rest of her family are clearly not looking out for her. She definitely needs an advocate to keep an eye on her, I hate that the services available in this country are so bad, they're letting down a huge section of society who need and deserve some support.
There is nothing clear or blatently obvious about it. Not unless you have read her medical notes, in which case you wouldn't be able to say.
It is entirely possible to be voluntarily admitted to a pscyhicatric unit without otherwise having been sectioned. I am very good friends with a psychiatrist and it's very hard for him to section someone, but it is quite easy for him to recommend someone be admitted for treatment. The show is probably paying for it, if not out of a sense of responsibility to her, it's out of a sense of covering their backs and getting a medical professional to have the final say on whether or not she's fit to work.
Her situation might be serious, but it is also quite plausible that she just needs to get away from it all and to be under the care of people who know how to help her.
She's obviously found it hard to cope with the last week or so, but that doesn't mean that she won't be able to cope with life in general, given the right support. To assume otherwise is irresponsible.
I agree with you totally, in my PERSONAL opinion, she just needs a bit of rest, some mental support and she'll be back on track in no time. If the media stops pressuring her, and if she takes it easy this time around she'll be fine.
I
It is obvious to me because I've so much first hand experience of sectioning and hospital admissions. The NHS M/H workers are very reluctant to section anyone nowadays because that makes them legally culpabable for anything that happens to that person / that the person does. However it is nigh impossible to have yourself voluntarily admitted. It's a kind of Catch 22 - someone can be brought in by an ambulance and the police because they have been acting psychotic / delusional / or presented a threat to other people's lives. As far as I can gather, it was hotel staff who alerted the authorities. At that point, where it is clear the person needs admission, psychiatrists are far happier to persuade the person to enter voluntarily.
Conversely, should a person feel very ill, or be aware they are slipping into the symptoms of whatever illness , they would be considered too self-aware to need admission -or- worse yet, attention seeking. In the recent past, my family and I have had to fight tooth and nail to have my mum admitted when she was a danger to herself and others and in deep psychosis. That never used to be the case.
I would say 'it's a London thing' but unfortunately, my mum lives up North so I have seen how it works both here in London and up North and it's equally bad.
Boyle is stating she is homesick and wants to go home. That is a bit of a clue to the reality of the situation. The one good thing of not being sectioned is that it won't be held against her on paper for the rest of her life.
He was seen doing some guest presenting on Big Brother's Little Brother in the same series and the next series I believe
This is so true, i never understood why, I have a very close friend that clearly needed admitance to a mental health hospital, being a danger to others and particularly to his single mother that he lived with, and even after the police was called several times due to his behaviour,she was unable to section him, exactly because he was "deemed" to be too self aware to be inside. Although what theu called "self aware" to us was a personality that we never seen before. In the end the mother was the one that ended being sectioned (by her own will)because she tried to kill herself several being unable to handle the situation. But even then he would visit her in the mental health hospital creating disturbances, and still no one had the power to do anything...
Has anyone read Ben Elton(not my favourite author) Chart throb? His books on reality TV really make you feel extremely cynical about these programmes.
I hope the rest will do Susan good. I do doubt whether she will go onto make a career of her singing, she is a fairly modest soul and this has all been too much for her.
You will have experience of one particular bit of the NHS. That doesn't mean the same rules apply everywhere else.
I'm close friends with a psychiatrist who is trained in both the legal and medical requirements for sectioning and voluntary admission and even though he's one of those rubbish (according to you) NHS pyschiatrists, he seems to think most of the people he treats are there voluntarily and not because they've been sectioned or threated with being sectioned.
Perhaps he's been doing it wrong all of these years, but perhaps the people at The Priory do it wrong too.
In particular, as you seem to have such a downer on the NHS and the psychiatric resources (and there are regional shortages of psychiatrists) then perhaps your experiences are due to local shortages and not because of good clinical policy.
As Susan is being treated at The Priory, presumably being paid for by someone, then the issue of resources becomes irrelevant and it is really perfectly possible that someone will be admitted because they think it will do them good, even though they would have no legal ability to force them into that treatment.
The majority of psychiatric patients would never meet the criteria that would require them to be sectioned. The range of mental health problems extends well beyond those strict definitions. It is entirely wrong to say that if someone admits themselves into a private hospital for therapy of some sorts that they would have been sectioned.
Of course it is possible that she met the criteria to be sectioned, but was offered the opportunity to admit herself, but it is in no way that we can assume it. Going around insisting that someone admitted to a psychiatric facility must have been psychotic is extremely unhelpful because it is just the sort of thing that puts people off seeking help for fear of what other people will think.
Very succinctly put and the crux of the matter.
She's been shipped here, interviewed there, had this plucked and semi-dyed and for what...so a bunch of vain judges could get a little more publicity. This is the fame game..one minute you're in and the next it's "oh sorry you're not needed now."
I say kudos to her for what she did and if she has any learning disability on top of that she gets even more respect.
I get the feeling that those ar*eholes in the BGT camp are now sidestepping away, hands behind their back, whistling and claiming 'we didn't know'. Well as far as I'm concerned, it was obvious from the outset. I said it when I first saw her - so if I worked it out and I've never even actually met the woman, then I'm sure those on BGT had sussed it out.
They should hang their heads for what they have done. I'm not saying a mentally unstable person shouldn't make it in the industry but she should have been protected. They let her down and threw her to the lions - the British Press.
Very well put. Poor woman.
These are both mental illnesses.
(Both above posts)
The heartening thing about this thread, though, despite some of the differences over semantics, is that the vast majority of posters are very sympathetic to Susan Boyle and her situation. There will be handfuls of detractors, but if these are the sentiments expressed by most people, hopefully she will be treated with respect, wherever she goes.
Who would've thunk it, cynical manipulation from the makers of trash television for the great unwashed.
As much as I agree with this, she doesn't have the same kind of protection that many in her situation have - in the way of a supportive family. I am sure that if your mother were to try and audition for something like this you would stop her. The excuse that appearing on television and all that it entailed was not considered by her 'well-meaning' neighbours and friends will only hold water for so long. We have seen the vilification of attention seekers on shows like Big Brother, Pop Idol etc for years (and now a decade in the case of Big Brother) so only those hiding under a rock would have been unaware of the risks of public exposure if you have even a modicum of talent, but for all that she has a good voice the whole "she had an ugly exterior therefore the voice was unexpected" is a bit cliched...wasn't the same said about Paul Potts?
It's indeed unfortunate, but anyone with any kind of experience of people with mental disorders or learning disabilities would have noticed Susan Boyle's less than 'consistent' behaviour and you are right, the show was looking out for an underdog with a story.
The only thing that stops me feeling an increasing amount of pity for her is that she is not a 'one-time' performer, she appeared in local talent shows etc before...It is not only down to the show though - if she had anyone at all (these neighbours etc) who cared about her at all shouldn't they have been there to offer advice?
Utter nonsense. Sorry.
I hope she can get through this. I was in the Priory when I was anorexic and it was a wonderful place, I'd be much much worse off without it. I'm confident Susan will begin to feel better while she is there, as it will be such a safe and supportive place for her. Good luck to her
Yeah, I personally found it easy to be voluntarily admitted to the Priory - I asked to go along for an assessment and was admitted to the ward within 2 weeks of that.
Then again at nearly £4500 a week I'm not surprised they are so quick to admit people