It's all image and no substance. She's only there on the telly saying that to make it look like she take a hard line on nasty terrorists. No doubt she is kidding herself she could be running this country in five years time too.
That's how politics works, though. All that stuff's bullshit, and we all know it... but it does affect the way we as a nation vote. That's an incredibly depressing thought for a Sunday night. Sorry.
I don't see the point of such a stupid request. The majority of those going to fight for ISIS where radicalised from birth.
passages in the Koran tells Muslims its not a sin to deceive the infidel .
How does Mrs May or I or anyone else know when these people are telling the truth.
BIB.... maybe true for those fighting in their home lands or from neighbouring Islamic countries. But I would question that the same is true for all those leaving from Britain. My guess is that they were radicalised as angry young teens or they are lured by the idea that fighting for IS is somehow glamorous; a sort of Jihad holiday for wannabe bad boys from the hood.
My guess is that they were radicalised as angry young teens or they are lured by the idea that fighting for IS is somehow glamorous; a sort of Jihad holiday for wannabe bad boys from the hood.
And my point still stands that the kind of parents who wouldn't report this happening to their children aren't suddenly going to have a change of heart now that Theresa May said this. And the kind who would report it would do so regardless of what she said. So there was quite literally no point in that speech.
May assumes that the parents wont be radicalised too, and she probably assumes wrong sadly. Where does she think children get their opinions/ideas from?
.... er... YouTube and the internet.
Sure, there's going to be a proportion of kids growing up in households where dads and uncles discuss how corrupt the infidels are and how jihad with cleanse the way blah blah blah. But there's also going to be a large portion of households where the parents aren't so radical. These moderate muslims are just as hated by the radicals as non-muslims. Look at the recent attack on the Bradford mosque. There's bound to be muslim kids who see their parent's moderate views as copping out.
Where May has it wrong is in expecting those moderate parent to turn in their own kids over to the authorities. This sort of thing has to be handled within the communities if it is to have any traction.
And my point still stands that the kind of parents who wouldn't report this happening to their children aren't suddenly going to have a change of heart now that Theresa May said this. And the kind who would report it would do so regardless of what she said. So there was quite literally no point in that speech.
I wasn't addressing any points you made. I was address the point that worzil made.
However, seeing as you've homed in on me and on a completely different point..... I don't disagree. I think it's likely that the muslim community would prefer to handle these things internally rather than hand over their kids to the police. That's not surprising though for a multitude of reasons; not least that blood is thicker than water, but also possibly out of fear of intra-communal reprisals.
The reasoning behind May's speech is, IMO, quite clear. The Government has to be "seen" to be doing something. That's quite different though from actually doing anything. Tough talk and posturing... a whole lot of hot air.... that's what this is. It keeps the middle class sheep happy. The rest of us see through the BS to the practicalities.
Well exactly. So that could (possibly) mean the parents themselves, and so asking the parents to report the kids may be misguided.
Edit: Just read Chris Frosts' reply - makes a very good point
BIB.... maybe true for those fighting in their home lands or from neighbouring Islamic countries. But I would question that the same is true for all those leaving from Britain. My guess is that they were radicalised as angry young teens or they are lured by the idea that fighting for IS is somehow glamorous; a sort of Jihad holiday for wannabe bad boys from the hood.
the fact that girls get mixed up in it suggests a comic kind of teen rebellion. I can understand sticking two fingers up to ur parents and feeling important, but see how important u feel when ur a chore and baby machine walking around in an anonymous tent
the fact that girls get mixed up in it suggests a comic kind of teen rebellion. I can understand sticking two fingers up to ur parents and feeling important, but see how important u feel when ur a chore and baby machine walking around in an anonymous tent
It is incredible - just how deluded do you have to be to leave this country to marry a stinking, mass-murdering savage in the middle of a desert wasteland?
Perhaps they really like the thought of being a sex slave - who knows?
Not that I care about all these 'highly intelligent' girls.
How do we spot radicalised children? Do they have green hair to give them away like all burglars walk around with stripy jumpers and bags with "SWAG" written on them?
It's a similar analogy to '1984' where children were told to spy on their parents. We've possibly reached a pretty sick level when we're turning in our 5 year-olds to the authorities.
See I've defended moderate Muslims time and time again on this forum, but it's this kind of post which does your defence no favours. Infact it makes you sound rather stupid.
It is incredible - just how deluded do you have to be to leave this country to marry a stinking, mass-murdering savage in the middle of a desert wasteland?
Perhaps they really like the thought of being a sex slave - who knows?
Not that I care about all these 'highly intelligent' girls.
FFS.
I think it's a possibility they fell for all the propaganda we were flooded with in this country about how lovely these "moderate rebels" were when they were only beheading and burning Assads people and trying to topple his government. We reap what we sow.
See I've defended moderate Muslims time and time again on this forum, but it's this kind of post which does your defence no favours. Infact it makes you sound rather stupid.
It is a fair point for him to be making. On the surface what May is saying seems completely reasonable but what is her motive? The sort of parents who wouldn't tell the authorities still won't and the sort that would will do so anyway if they ever have to. When we have a government encouraging family members to report on each other it draws slightly disturbing parralels with East Germany and the amount of people reporting on family members for their "terrorist" activities.
I think it's a possibility they fell for all the propaganda we were flooded with in this country about how lovely these "moderate rebels" were when they were only beheading and burning Assads people and trying to topple his government. We reap what we sow.
And they just ignored all the beheading videos since then did they?
They knew exactly what they were doing and this country is well shot of the fanatical little bitches.
And they just ignored all the beheading videos since then did they?
Not sure why you think that would make a difference to them. If they had already fallen for the propaganda that ISIS were "moderate rebels" fighting a war of liberation by beheading and burning innocent Syrians why would their views change when they saw those same "moderate rebels" beheading Westerners?
Not sure why you think that would make a difference to them. If they had already fallen for the propaganda that ISIS were "moderate rebels" fighting a war of liberation by beheading and burning innocent Syrians why would their views change when they saw those same "moderate rebels" beheading Westerners?
Personally I think the West should have left well alone, Saddam, Gaddafi, Assad and all the rest as brutal as they were/are seemed to be the only ones capable of keeping a lid on fanatical Islamic extremism.
Personally I think the West should have left well alone, Saddam, Gaddafi, Assad and all the rest as brutal as they were/are seemed to be the only ones capable of keeping a lid on fanatical Islamic extremism.
Arab Spring?
Arab Catastrof***.
But we didn't. We ran in there and proudly supported anyone who was anti assad without caring about the consequences further down the line. Those girls could have looked and seen our government supporting the "moderate rebels" beheading and burning Syrian civilians and justifying it as being in the greater good to fight tyranny. Those girls would then believe that this sort of thing was ok. It must be because the government supports it. We're reaping what we sowed and we never seem to learn that supporting terrorists might benefit us in the short term but it always bites us in the ass eventually.
But we didn't. We ran in there and proudly supported anyone who was anti assad without caring about the consequences further down the line. Those girls could have looked and seen our government supporting the "moderate rebels" beheading and burning Syrian civilians and justifying it as being in the greater good to fight tyranny. Those girls would then believe that this sort of thing was ok. It must be because the government supports it. We're reaping what we sowed and we never seem to learn that supporting terrorists might benefit us in the short term but it always bites us in the ass eventually.
You are giving them far too much credit - they knew exactly was ISIS was and they went anyway (probably many were supported by their families despite all the feeble protestations of innocence and bloody teddy bears).
Yes they knew what ISIS were really like but when our own government was basocally supporting/going along with it as being necessary for some greater good, those girls are going to think its acceptable because the "authorities" condone it.
Yes they knew what ISIS were really like but when our own government was basocally supporting/going along with it as being necessary for some greater good, those girls are going to think its acceptable because the "authorities" condone it.
That was years ago and thank God the West realised it's mistake fairly quickly.
Are you telling me that these 'intelligent' women were not aware of all the ISIS atrocities since then?
To be fair to her - which I'm not very often, she's probably tearing her hair out trying to think of ANYTHING that might help the hideous situation we now find ourselves in.
I have an idea. Recruit people to move into Muslim communities, join the local mosque, low key but observant.
And others to monitor social media.
You could catch a few this way. Maybe they are already doing it.
Yes they knew what ISIS were really like but when our own government was basocally supporting/going along with it as being necessary for some greater good, those girls are going to think its acceptable because the "authorities" condone it.
Ha ha hahaha ha ha hahaha ha ha....... ha.....ha ha.... ha ha ha.
Thanks for the laugh.... but you don't know much about kids then. When exaclty was the last time you heard a teenager who said "Oh, I really should do (insert activity of choice) because it's approved and condoned by the British Government"?
That was years ago and thank God the West realised it's mistake fairly quickly.
Are you telling me that these 'intelligent' women were not aware of all the ISIS atrocities since then?
Of course they would be aware of the atrocities but how would they know that such atrocities are wrong when our own government is condining them and saying that it's part of a battle to liberate people from tyranny? When the "moderate rebels" of ISIS were beheading and burning Syrians we egged them on, we even got involved in air strikes to help them take power. But the minute they do the same to Westerners they are terrorists instead of moderates. Can you blame a young teenager for being confused at that?
We never realized our mistake quickly, to some extent we still haven't because there are still people out there deluding themselves into thinking that a "moderate" group of rebels actually exist when the elephant in the room is that it's always essentially been Assad V ISIS/Nusra. We were happy to back ISIS when they were beheading Syrians all the back in 2011 we were the ones who egged them on to topple Assad, we funded and backed them and now they have chewed through the leash and consider our civilians to be just as acceptable targets as the Syrian civilians we were happy for them to kill. We never learn from history, it's like the Mujihadeen all over again.
Ha ha hahaha ha ha hahaha ha ha....... ha.....ha ha.... ha ha ha.
Thanks for the laugh.... but you don't know much about kids then. When exaclty was the last time you heard a teenager who said "Oh, I really should do (insert activity of choice) because it's approved and condoned by the British Government"?
If there's things we aren't sure about we generally look towards what the government has condoned and what they have spoken out against. Our governmen were happy to condone the "moderate rebels" when it was just Syrians they were beheading and burning alive. That was all an "uprising against tyranny", some people here like those kids have fallen for it and now the government doesn't like it because, as usual, when the terrorists we've supported turn on us, they stop being freedom fighters. We just don't learn from our mistakes in the past.
If there's things we aren't sure about we generally look towards what the government has condoned and what they have spoken out against. Our governmen were happy to condone the "moderate rebels" when it was just Syrians they were beheading and burning alive. That was all an "uprising against tyranny", some people here like those kids have fallen for it and now the government doesn't like it because, as usual, when the terrorists we've supported turn on us, they stop being freedom fighters. We just don't learn from our mistakes in the past.
Setting aside the motivation of our Government in trying to assist in toppling another country's government for a moment, the point you raised was that radicalised kids will look to our Government for some kind of green light to go off and fight with ISIS or whoever. With respect, I am saying that that is complete rubbish.
For a start our Government is seen as being part of the problem. Thats hardly a ringing endorsement, is it. Second, kids being kids, then unless their parents or Imam are raving radicals too then the kids are far more likely to look to their peer group for direction than they are traditional authority figures.
Comments
That's how politics works, though. All that stuff's bullshit, and we all know it... but it does affect the way we as a nation vote. That's an incredibly depressing thought for a Sunday night. Sorry.
BIB.... maybe true for those fighting in their home lands or from neighbouring Islamic countries. But I would question that the same is true for all those leaving from Britain. My guess is that they were radicalised as angry young teens or they are lured by the idea that fighting for IS is somehow glamorous; a sort of Jihad holiday for wannabe bad boys from the hood.
And my point still stands that the kind of parents who wouldn't report this happening to their children aren't suddenly going to have a change of heart now that Theresa May said this. And the kind who would report it would do so regardless of what she said. So there was quite literally no point in that speech.
Sure, there's going to be a proportion of kids growing up in households where dads and uncles discuss how corrupt the infidels are and how jihad with cleanse the way blah blah blah. But there's also going to be a large portion of households where the parents aren't so radical. These moderate muslims are just as hated by the radicals as non-muslims. Look at the recent attack on the Bradford mosque. There's bound to be muslim kids who see their parent's moderate views as copping out.
Where May has it wrong is in expecting those moderate parent to turn in their own kids over to the authorities. This sort of thing has to be handled within the communities if it is to have any traction.
However, seeing as you've homed in on me and on a completely different point..... I don't disagree. I think it's likely that the muslim community would prefer to handle these things internally rather than hand over their kids to the police. That's not surprising though for a multitude of reasons; not least that blood is thicker than water, but also possibly out of fear of intra-communal reprisals.
The reasoning behind May's speech is, IMO, quite clear. The Government has to be "seen" to be doing something. That's quite different though from actually doing anything. Tough talk and posturing... a whole lot of hot air.... that's what this is. It keeps the middle class sheep happy. The rest of us see through the BS to the practicalities.
Well exactly. So that could (possibly) mean the parents themselves, and so asking the parents to report the kids may be misguided.
Edit: Just read Chris Frosts' reply - makes a very good point
It is incredible - just how deluded do you have to be to leave this country to marry a stinking, mass-murdering savage in the middle of a desert wasteland?
Perhaps they really like the thought of being a sex slave - who knows?
Not that I care about all these 'highly intelligent' girls.
FFS.
We don't, but the parents might notice.
See I've defended moderate Muslims time and time again on this forum, but it's this kind of post which does your defence no favours. Infact it makes you sound rather stupid.
I think it's a possibility they fell for all the propaganda we were flooded with in this country about how lovely these "moderate rebels" were when they were only beheading and burning Assads people and trying to topple his government. We reap what we sow.
It is a fair point for him to be making. On the surface what May is saying seems completely reasonable but what is her motive? The sort of parents who wouldn't tell the authorities still won't and the sort that would will do so anyway if they ever have to. When we have a government encouraging family members to report on each other it draws slightly disturbing parralels with East Germany and the amount of people reporting on family members for their "terrorist" activities.
And they just ignored all the beheading videos since then did they?
They knew exactly what they were doing and this country is well shot of the fanatical little bitches.
Not sure why you think that would make a difference to them. If they had already fallen for the propaganda that ISIS were "moderate rebels" fighting a war of liberation by beheading and burning innocent Syrians why would their views change when they saw those same "moderate rebels" beheading Westerners?
Personally I think the West should have left well alone, Saddam, Gaddafi, Assad and all the rest as brutal as they were/are seemed to be the only ones capable of keeping a lid on fanatical Islamic extremism.
Arab Spring?
Arab Catastrof***.
But we didn't. We ran in there and proudly supported anyone who was anti assad without caring about the consequences further down the line. Those girls could have looked and seen our government supporting the "moderate rebels" beheading and burning Syrian civilians and justifying it as being in the greater good to fight tyranny. Those girls would then believe that this sort of thing was ok. It must be because the government supports it. We're reaping what we sowed and we never seem to learn that supporting terrorists might benefit us in the short term but it always bites us in the ass eventually.
You are giving them far too much credit - they knew exactly was ISIS was and they went anyway (probably many were supported by their families despite all the feeble protestations of innocence and bloody teddy bears).
Islamic fanatics.
Good riddance to bad rubbish.
That was years ago and thank God the West realised it's mistake fairly quickly.
Are you telling me that these 'intelligent' women were not aware of all the ISIS atrocities since then?
The excuses you make do not cut it.
I hope they rot.
I have an idea. Recruit people to move into Muslim communities, join the local mosque, low key but observant.
And others to monitor social media.
You could catch a few this way. Maybe they are already doing it.
Thanks for the laugh.... but you don't know much about kids then. When exaclty was the last time you heard a teenager who said "Oh, I really should do (insert activity of choice) because it's approved and condoned by the British Government"?
Of course they would be aware of the atrocities but how would they know that such atrocities are wrong when our own government is condining them and saying that it's part of a battle to liberate people from tyranny? When the "moderate rebels" of ISIS were beheading and burning Syrians we egged them on, we even got involved in air strikes to help them take power. But the minute they do the same to Westerners they are terrorists instead of moderates. Can you blame a young teenager for being confused at that?
We never realized our mistake quickly, to some extent we still haven't because there are still people out there deluding themselves into thinking that a "moderate" group of rebels actually exist when the elephant in the room is that it's always essentially been Assad V ISIS/Nusra. We were happy to back ISIS when they were beheading Syrians all the back in 2011 we were the ones who egged them on to topple Assad, we funded and backed them and now they have chewed through the leash and consider our civilians to be just as acceptable targets as the Syrian civilians we were happy for them to kill. We never learn from history, it's like the Mujihadeen all over again.
If there's things we aren't sure about we generally look towards what the government has condoned and what they have spoken out against. Our governmen were happy to condone the "moderate rebels" when it was just Syrians they were beheading and burning alive. That was all an "uprising against tyranny", some people here like those kids have fallen for it and now the government doesn't like it because, as usual, when the terrorists we've supported turn on us, they stop being freedom fighters. We just don't learn from our mistakes in the past.
For a start our Government is seen as being part of the problem. Thats hardly a ringing endorsement, is it. Second, kids being kids, then unless their parents or Imam are raving radicals too then the kids are far more likely to look to their peer group for direction than they are traditional authority figures.