People talk about her like she was some sort of genius who changed the face of modern music - she wasn't. She made mainstream, commercially-friendly pop songs that would have been a hit had anyone sung them, except she dressed in silly costumes and put effort into her videos so gained an extra bit of novelty, plus she fitted in with the general shift of the sound of pop which had bubbled for a couple of years but both her and the Black Eyed Peas really brought it to the forefront in 2009, David Guetta and later Calvin Harris then getting absolutely everyone on board who previously wouldn't have touched "dance" music with a bargepole. Added to huge amounts of hype from people saying THIS IS THE NEXT BIG THING IN MUSIC, when it really wasn't, she had a year or so of major success. As did Frankie Goes To Hollywood in 1984 - absolutely huge, then they come back and no one cares anymore because they're all listening to someone else.
She was lucky to return with Born This Way, again it was hyped up big time as THE TRIUMPHANT RETURN only for everyone to be a bit underwhelmed by something even blander than before. To be fair she did then release The Edge of Glory which was and always will be brilliant, and its chart run confirms it - hovering around for ages rather than peaking first week and falling fast. By the time Applause came out she'd long past any relevance and the hype wasn't working as she simply wasn't new anymore.
Before anyone says "well how come she's fading and people like Rihanna and Katy Perry are still around?" - because they have a ton of writers giving them guaranteed hit songs year after year, and the moment they decide they're not relevant anymore, they're finished. The world of pop is a ruthless, terrifying scene that so many would kill to be part of but ultimately it destroys you, eternal fame very rarely the case and often you're thrown out the door with little fanfare when people get bored of you.
I never got the hype in the first place. Nothing she did seemed even remotely original.
Oohh let's dress in Ridiculous costumes. Because that's never been done twenty years earlier by Madonna and twenty years before that by Cher. She turned up to some award show dressed as Cher from the video of her cover of walking in Memphis.
She was did a bit on stage where she came on as a mermaid in a wheelchair. Later someone pointed out Bette Midler had done the same some years previous. She acted shocked. As if every part of her act wasn't an imitation of something other artists did years before. There doesn't seem to be an original bone in the woman's body.
Her songs are generic pop songs and her fame is purely down to the massive marketing machine behind her. It was never sustainable.
People talk about her like she was some sort of genius who changed the face of modern music - she wasn't. She made mainstream, commercially-friendly pop songs that would have been a hit had anyone sung them, except she dressed in silly costumes and put effort into her videos so gained an extra bit of novelty, plus she fitted in with the general shift of the sound of pop which had bubbled for a couple of years but both her and the Black Eyed Peas really brought it to the forefront in 2009, David Guetta and later Calvin Harris then getting absolutely everyone on board who previously wouldn't have touched "dance" music with a bargepole. Added to huge amounts of hype from people saying THIS IS THE NEXT BIG THING IN MUSIC, when it really wasn't, she had a year or so of major success. As did Frankie Goes To Hollywood in 1984 - absolutely huge, then they come back and no one cares anymore because they're all listening to someone else.
She was lucky to return with Born This Way, again it was hyped up big time as THE TRIUMPHANT RETURN only for everyone to be a bit underwhelmed by something even blander than before. To be fair she did then release The Edge of Glory which was and always will be brilliant, and its chart run confirms it - hovering around for ages rather than peaking first week and falling fast. By the time Applause came out she'd long past any relevance and the hype wasn't working as she simply wasn't new anymore.
Before anyone says "well how come she's fading and people like Rihanna and Katy Perry are still around?" - because they have a ton of writers giving them guaranteed hit songs year after year, and the moment they decide they're not relevant anymore, they're finished. The world of pop is a ruthless, terrifying scene that so many would kill to be part of but ultimately it destroys you, eternal fame very rarely the case and often you're thrown out the door with little fanfare when people get bored of you.
This is very true actually, and may be at once Gaga's saving grace as a credible pop artist and her downfall as a big success in the pop world.
She relies totally on her own songwriting, her own contributions, and whatever collaborator and producer she hires for her albums, usually someone slightly left-field. No Guetta, no Calvin Harris, no Max Martin, no Dr Luke, no Pitbull or Flo Rida or Eminem or Jay-Z collabs to pull up her stuff. Yes, there was Telephone and Video Phone with Beyonce, but those were very much duet-styled songs.
Saving grace in that if Perry or Rihanna relied only on their own songwriting, their careers might be as erratic as Gaga's - who perhaps was very lucky to strike gold with Poker Face, Just Dance, Bad Romance and Paparazzi - almost a fluke, if it's actually the case that she's in reality a fairly mediocre songwriter, or someone who's very hit and miss.
But downfall in that, in only relying on her own songwriting stuff, she's going to fall behind the game. Its doing too much herself. Its not splitting the workload.
However, it could also be the light at the end of the tunnel for album 4 - and there's little doubt that she'll get one - throw everything and the kitchen sink at it, collab with Dr Luke and Max Martin and William Orbit and Disclosure and whoever else is up-and-coming, and leave dance-pop behind. In that sense, Artpop at least will (hopefully) have taught her that you can't just 'Do What You Want' to be successful in pop, you have to follow the curve of what the public likes and fit yourself to it, not vice versa. And also, perhaps she'll have realised, having not had them with this album, that yes, she does care about chart positions and awards, and she'll sacrifice her 'artistic' side (hit and miss anyway) in pursuit of them.
This thread plus
'The Saturdays, what are you waiting for ....flop?'
'Is Pixie Lott's career over?'
'Has La Roux's latest album bombed?'
'Not long until we can bid farewell to Cher Lloyd'
Do some guys have it in for the girls in pop or something?
There really does seem to be a gender bias here.
I wonder if Gaga was a male artist would there be such a thread?
Most male artists are so unimaginative these days, Gaga is at least interesting.
Oh so many reasons and ones I've been banging on about since BTW.
The issue was she became stale whilst promoting the idea she was somehow above others and had herself become über amazing. The reality was BTW delivered a messy album with a messy campaign that showed up her flaws. Quite genric sounding music armature production with no real originality.
Artpop rather than saving her has just compounded those assumptions many had of her. Poor singles increasingly desperate and delusional behaviour.
All of which has amounted to many turning away and saying no thanks.
This thread plus
'The Saturdays, what are you waiting for ....flop?'
'Is Pixie Lott's career over?'
'Has La Roux's latest album bombed?'
'Not long until we can bid farewell to Cher Lloyd'
Do some guys have it in for the girls in pop or something?
There really does seem to be a gender bias here.
I wonder if Gaga was a male artist would there be such a thread?
Most male artists are so unimaginative these days, Gaga is at least interesting.
Maybe female artists should stop flopping so much and then people wouldn't feel a need to make threads about them
I think she peaked too early. She was at her best in 2009 with The Fame/Monster and I think that's a brilliant pop album everyone should own. Then Born This Way came out and musically it wasn't too bad (if a little messy) but she started to become more pretentious. I think the pretentiousness and "artpop" stuff and pretending to be the second coming of pop music is what puts people off. There is nothing "arty" about her last album, it's just mainstream pop music. It's a mess and there are a few good songs on it but the rest is just meh. She really could learn from Britney and Katy Perry, who manage to release great songs without many gimmicks or pretentiousness.
The strange thing is that she's a really good singer and I think her future lies more as an entertainer than a popstar. She should really give up pop music and become a singer-songwriter. She could release an acoustic album featuring just her and the piano and no more gimmicks. I hope her jazz album with Tony Bennett changes the public's opinion of her as she can sing and even though I'm not a fan of jazz music I think she's the only popstar who can pull that style of music off and the jazz stuff I've heard from her so far has been really good.
Not a fan either way but she blew it with her third album. She should have done something different, something that forced people to take notice. Instead it was the same old 90s Club music crap.
This thread plus
'The Saturdays, what are you waiting for ....flop?'
'Is Pixie Lott's career over?'
'Has La Roux's latest album bombed?'
'Not long until we can bid farewell to Cher Lloyd'
Do some guys have it in for the girls in pop or something?
There really does seem to be a gender bias here.
I wonder if Gaga was a male artist would there be such a thread?
Most male artists are so unimaginative these days, Gaga is at least interesting.
you're not wrong there. Sam Smith, Tom Odell, that Newman chap, Geroge summat or other, and the other one (i'm sure there's another one), might as well all be the same person. Terrible drivel.
Not a fan either way but she blew it with her third album. She should have done something different, something that forced people to take notice. Instead it was the same old 90s Club music crap.
Just wondered but do people consider Born This Way her third album or Artpop?
Come on? She' hasn't fallen from grace - she may not be selling the numbers she used to sell, but she's still one of the biggest selling artists in the world. She's allowed peaks and troughs in her career (though I thought ARTPOP was for the most part excellent, and not a critical trough in my opinion...)
As others have said, the talent ran out before the hype. She'll hire some credible 'hitmaker' and try to reinvent herself yet again, but to no avail.
The future remains in the hands of true TALENT like Paloma Faith.
true Hav - ... her PR machine at the time was exceptional ...it was a great manoeuvre .... not seen since ..... ??
It was it kept the debut afloat whilst giving ultimately it's superior successor.
That's what she failed to do build on that. BTW has great moments but its overall messy and that campaign and her enlarging ego ruined it. Also trying to sell herself as gay icon was a bad and transparent move.
As others have said, the talent ran out before the hype. She'll hire some credible 'hitmaker' and try to reinvent herself yet again, but to no avail.
The future remains in the hands of true TALENT like Paloma Faith.
It always amazes me how someone like Gaga who is marketed as kooky and out there and original makes a world wide phenomena.
Whilst someone like Paloma who actually is a bit kooky, a bit out there and original doesn't.
Can't say I'm a giant fan of Paloma's music, it not my cup of tea personally but I always thought she was an absolute breath of fresh air in a industry full of copy cat pop singers.
This thread plus
'The Saturdays, what are you waiting for ....flop?'
'Is Pixie Lott's career over?'
'Has La Roux's latest album bombed?'
'Not long until we can bid farewell to Cher Lloyd'
Do some guys have it in for the girls in pop or something?
There really does seem to be a gender bias here.
I wonder if Gaga was a male artist would there be such a thread?
Most male artists are so unimaginative these days, Gaga is at least interesting.
I'm not sure its a gender bias as much as people just don't care that much about any male artists in pop at the minute. I think people only make threads about La Roux, Pixie Lott, the Saturdays etc because at least theyre kind of interesting to discuss.
Sam Smith flops? Boy from the X Factor flops? One of the lads from N-Dubz flops? No-one really cares, they were never that interesting in the first place.
The only big males in pop at the minute are One Direction, on this forum anyway, and that's only by default really. There's the 1D ripoff bands too (5 Seconds of Summer, that other one, and the other one from XF) but no-one here really cares about them either I don't think!
This is very true actually, and may be at once Gaga's saving grace as a credible pop artist and her downfall as a big success in the pop world.
She relies totally on her own songwriting, her own contributions, and whatever collaborator and producer she hires for her albums, usually someone slightly left-field.
Oh like Redone, yeah sure. I also see she rarely if ever relies on just her own songwriting, pretty much mostly collaborates.
Oh like Redone, yeah sure. I also see she rarely if ever relies on just her own songwriting, pretty much mostly collaborates.
Well, she makes out that she does, then.
Does she not? I was always under the impression she had a lot more involvement in writing, doesnt she always tweet etc about writing songs for her Little Monsters?
Comments
MTv just sucks
She was lucky to return with Born This Way, again it was hyped up big time as THE TRIUMPHANT RETURN only for everyone to be a bit underwhelmed by something even blander than before. To be fair she did then release The Edge of Glory which was and always will be brilliant, and its chart run confirms it - hovering around for ages rather than peaking first week and falling fast. By the time Applause came out she'd long past any relevance and the hype wasn't working as she simply wasn't new anymore.
Before anyone says "well how come she's fading and people like Rihanna and Katy Perry are still around?" - because they have a ton of writers giving them guaranteed hit songs year after year, and the moment they decide they're not relevant anymore, they're finished. The world of pop is a ruthless, terrifying scene that so many would kill to be part of but ultimately it destroys you, eternal fame very rarely the case and often you're thrown out the door with little fanfare when people get bored of you.
Oohh let's dress in Ridiculous costumes. Because that's never been done twenty years earlier by Madonna and twenty years before that by Cher. She turned up to some award show dressed as Cher from the video of her cover of walking in Memphis.
She was did a bit on stage where she came on as a mermaid in a wheelchair. Later someone pointed out Bette Midler had done the same some years previous. She acted shocked. As if every part of her act wasn't an imitation of something other artists did years before. There doesn't seem to be an original bone in the woman's body.
Her songs are generic pop songs and her fame is purely down to the massive marketing machine behind her. It was never sustainable.
This is very true actually, and may be at once Gaga's saving grace as a credible pop artist and her downfall as a big success in the pop world.
She relies totally on her own songwriting, her own contributions, and whatever collaborator and producer she hires for her albums, usually someone slightly left-field. No Guetta, no Calvin Harris, no Max Martin, no Dr Luke, no Pitbull or Flo Rida or Eminem or Jay-Z collabs to pull up her stuff. Yes, there was Telephone and Video Phone with Beyonce, but those were very much duet-styled songs.
Saving grace in that if Perry or Rihanna relied only on their own songwriting, their careers might be as erratic as Gaga's - who perhaps was very lucky to strike gold with Poker Face, Just Dance, Bad Romance and Paparazzi - almost a fluke, if it's actually the case that she's in reality a fairly mediocre songwriter, or someone who's very hit and miss.
But downfall in that, in only relying on her own songwriting stuff, she's going to fall behind the game. Its doing too much herself. Its not splitting the workload.
However, it could also be the light at the end of the tunnel for album 4 - and there's little doubt that she'll get one - throw everything and the kitchen sink at it, collab with Dr Luke and Max Martin and William Orbit and Disclosure and whoever else is up-and-coming, and leave dance-pop behind. In that sense, Artpop at least will (hopefully) have taught her that you can't just 'Do What You Want' to be successful in pop, you have to follow the curve of what the public likes and fit yourself to it, not vice versa. And also, perhaps she'll have realised, having not had them with this album, that yes, she does care about chart positions and awards, and she'll sacrifice her 'artistic' side (hit and miss anyway) in pursuit of them.
'The Saturdays, what are you waiting for ....flop?'
'Is Pixie Lott's career over?'
'Has La Roux's latest album bombed?'
'Not long until we can bid farewell to Cher Lloyd'
Do some guys have it in for the girls in pop or something?
There really does seem to be a gender bias here.
I wonder if Gaga was a male artist would there be such a thread?
Most male artists are so unimaginative these days, Gaga is at least interesting.
I agree she does rave about her music that it is the second coming
But not her videos but her fans still demand this and that.
The issue was she became stale whilst promoting the idea she was somehow above others and had herself become über amazing. The reality was BTW delivered a messy album with a messy campaign that showed up her flaws. Quite genric sounding music armature production with no real originality.
Artpop rather than saving her has just compounded those assumptions many had of her. Poor singles increasingly desperate and delusional behaviour.
All of which has amounted to many turning away and saying no thanks.
Maybe female artists should stop flopping so much and then people wouldn't feel a need to make threads about them
The strange thing is that she's a really good singer and I think her future lies more as an entertainer than a popstar. She should really give up pop music and become a singer-songwriter. She could release an acoustic album featuring just her and the piano and no more gimmicks. I hope her jazz album with Tony Bennett changes the public's opinion of her as she can sing and even though I'm not a fan of jazz music I think she's the only popstar who can pull that style of music off and the jazz stuff I've heard from her so far has been really good.
you're not wrong there. Sam Smith, Tom Odell, that Newman chap, Geroge summat or other, and the other one (i'm sure there's another one), might as well all be the same person. Terrible drivel.
Just wondered but do people consider Born This Way her third album or Artpop?
Is the Fame Monster considered an album?
it has been due its release as complete package in the US.
However, I consider her releases as
fame
fame monster
born this way
artpop
this way fame monster can be appreciated still as a single release but as a whole package too... pleases everybody I guess.
Also sales for both Are combined hence how the fame sold 15m
The future remains in the hands of true TALENT like Paloma Faith.
It was it kept the debut afloat whilst giving ultimately it's superior successor.
That's what she failed to do build on that. BTW has great moments but its overall messy and that campaign and her enlarging ego ruined it. Also trying to sell herself as gay icon was a bad and transparent move.
It always amazes me how someone like Gaga who is marketed as kooky and out there and original makes a world wide phenomena.
Whilst someone like Paloma who actually is a bit kooky, a bit out there and original doesn't.
Can't say I'm a giant fan of Paloma's music, it not my cup of tea personally but I always thought she was an absolute breath of fresh air in a industry full of copy cat pop singers.
I'm not sure its a gender bias as much as people just don't care that much about any male artists in pop at the minute. I think people only make threads about La Roux, Pixie Lott, the Saturdays etc because at least theyre kind of interesting to discuss.
Sam Smith flops? Boy from the X Factor flops? One of the lads from N-Dubz flops? No-one really cares, they were never that interesting in the first place.
The only big males in pop at the minute are One Direction, on this forum anyway, and that's only by default really. There's the 1D ripoff bands too (5 Seconds of Summer, that other one, and the other one from XF) but no-one here really cares about them either I don't think!
Oh like Redone, yeah sure. I also see she rarely if ever relies on just her own songwriting, pretty much mostly collaborates.
Well, she makes out that she does, then.
Does she not? I was always under the impression she had a lot more involvement in writing, doesnt she always tweet etc about writing songs for her Little Monsters?
I still like her, but that last album was terrible