So you effectively gave up after two games but its (At least in part) because of the players? So do you think you would have done this under the previous manager? If the answer is "no" then you ARE being a Moyes apologist whether you like it or not. Why are you looking for "small positives", since when did that become our goal as a football club?
What were the positives BTW? The new kit is nice? The grass is a lovely colour of green? Or are we saying "oh well we actually beat a relegation-threatened team this time, we'd have lost that game before Xmas" is now a positive?
You have dropped your standards in line with the manager, you have been hoodwinked. You will celebrate top 4 next season if we get there after spending another £150m as if it is success and you have already forgotten what went before.
What Moyes is doing here, and please think about this, is taking a squad of title winners and turning it into a 7th place side so that if he gets us up to 4th next year its seen as a success. It isn't. He has just lowered the bar by so much that what was once disappointing and unheard of will become a good thing.
This league is not amaze balls this season. The standard have not rocketed. Our team and manager of last season would have won this league again this season and still be called below par.
This is what I mean when I say it has to stop. Look at your parameters. "Would I have given up under the previous manager?" Are you seriously comparing SAF to Moyes? Given their track record? That's a level of how much over-expectation you and others had. We needed a Mourinho, a Pep, a Heycknes or an Ancelotti. Someone who had been there, done it and most crucially of all could handle the pressure of managing a top club. And of course, the unknowns are exactly what new players any of those managers would have bought to the club. Jose's buys this season have been criminally underrated, in my view.
I'll ignore your second para and as for the third, just a little bit assumptive don't you think? I have not dropped my standards, I am simply being realistic about the situation. I don't want to suffer any more seasons like this or the perennial Wegner view of a CL spot being as good as a trophy. Moyes doesn't seem to be going anywhere for a while so rather than rant about his failings I am trying to look for the positives that may restore us to former glories. Such as, he took the squad as far in the CL as SAF did last season and our away record. Also, looking ahead, over his career he has made more good buys than bad ones so if he does spend big and we are still bad next season at least the new manager will have a decent squad to work with.
Name me one player apart from Rooney and de Gea that have performed as well this season as they did last season. Is that all Moyes fault?
This is what I mean when I say it has to stop. Look at your parameters. "Would I have given up under the previous manager?" Are you seriously comparing SAF to Moyes? Given their track record? That's a level of how much over-expectation you and others had. We needed a Mourinho, a Pep, a Heycknes or an Ancelotti. Someone who had been there, done it and most crucially of all could handle the pressure of managing a top club. And of course, the unknowns are exactly what new players any of those managers would have bought to the club. Jose's buys this season have been criminally underrated, in my view.
I'll ignore your second para and as for the third, just a little bit assumptive don't you think? I have not dropped my standards, I am simply being realistic about the situation. I don't want to suffer any more seasons like this or the perennial Wegner view of a CL spot being as good as a trophy. Moyes doesn't seem to be going anywhere for a while so rather than rant about his failings I am trying to look for the positives that may restore us to former glories. Such as, he took the squad as far in the CL as SAF did last season and our away record. Also, looking ahead, over his career he has made more good buys than bad ones so if he does spend big and we are still bad next season at least the new manager will have a decent squad to work with.
Name me one player apart from Rooney and de Gea that have performed as well this season as they did last season. Is that all Moyes fault?
Yes it is Moyes fault, of course it is. If its apparently all down to SAF that he managed to put a winning team on the park last season then how is it not the managers fault that we haven't done it this? You can't apply the double standards whereby the manager get the plaudits last season but the players take the blame this.
You also can't say that I can't compare Moyes to SAF. Yes i can. One was the Man Utd manager and one is the Man Utd manager, what do you expect me to do? If they can't be compared in terms of expectation then that is further proof that its the wrong man in the job and if you concede that that is the case then why should we just sit back and accept it? Where do you draw the line here? If they gave me the job next and i won one game all season would you shift the goalposts again and say "Yeah its terrible but actually its not bad considering he's never managed a team before?" No of course you wouldn't, you would say "What the hell is this idiot doing managing our team??". That is just an over-exagerated example of what you are doing now. You ARE lowering the bar because we have put this man in charge.
People bemoaned our lack of progress in the CL in the past you are now quoting "Moyes did as well in the CL as SAF did last season" as a plus point. Who is comparing the two managers now?
Yes it is Moyes fault, of course it is. If its apparently all down to SAF that he managed to put a winning team on the park last season then how is it not the managers fault that we haven't done it this? You can't apply the double standards whereby the manager get the plaudits last season but the players take the blame this.
When a team fails, it's the manager who pays for it by getting the sack, whether people think that's right or not.
Moyes has failed big time, so why is he still in a job?
It's been pointed out many times, if he'd dragged down a team the way he has United, if he was with another PL team, he'd have been given the sack by now, to try to stop the decline.
The only person to blame for this mess is Moyes, you can't make comparisons when SAF took over as he didn't take over a squad of champions. Moyes has turned us into a mid table team that may not even qualify for the ITV 4 cup can't see it changing no matter who he signs in the summer.
Moyes has turned us into a mid table team that may not even qualify for the ITV 4 cup
I wouldn't agree with that, as for me mid table teams are the Southamptons and Newcastles. We are just not a top 4 team at the moment but I can't see us failing to qualify for the ITV4 cup.
can't see it changing no matter who he signs in the summer.
That's where I disagree with some of you, as I think even with the present team, with no more than like-for-like squad changes in the summer, we will do better than this season and that implies a decent challenge for the top 4 and the ability to occasionally beat one of them!
Beyond that depends on who we manage to buy in the summer but if we can strengthen the midfield and defence, we'd be a shoo in for top 4 but 3rd or above? It's too soon to say.
I'm not an apologist for Moyes, he's failed this season, and I can think of a few other managers who would almost certainly have done better. But he will do better too next season if he keeps his job, and that probably depends on the team's performances and results in the next four games. Sunday should tell us a lot, one way or the other. It's Moyes's cup final and the players know it.
7th if Arsenal win the FA Cup, I think (can someone check that please?).
EDIT OK 6th, I defer to Steveaustin316 below. Not qualifying might not be a bad thing though (but if we beat Everton that should see us make 6th so what to do? What to do?)
The only person to blame for this mess is Moyes, you can't make comparisons when SAF took over as he didn't take over a squad of champions. Moyes has turned us into a mid table team that may not even qualify for the ITV 4 cup can't see it changing no matter who he signs in the summer.
Agree completely. Whoever he'd have signed, he won't know what to do with them to get the best out of them.
It's like when people say even if he had Ronnie and Messi he'd turn them into mediocre players!
Let me ask you this....Moyes is 50, he has always played defensive dour football - why would he change now??
Yep, he has 1 method that he appears not to deviate from, it would be the same regardless of whether he's managing Everton, United, Bayern Munich or Rochdale.
Maybe they are tired of their own negativitity themselves. Im sure Batdude can defend his position better then i can. Just thought you were a bit harsh but i'm not a regular reader of the Man United thread.
exactly!
and there is too much of this from people. Unless you read the copious amount of rubbish, pedantry and complete u-turning on opinion after arguing until bluer than a smurf hanging itself that comes from that poster you really shouldnt be offering an opinion on it frankly.
Anyway, as we clearly have defensive problems it nice to see in my weekly united email that these guys: Saidy Janko, Reece James, Charni Ekangamene are all defenders and all in the running for reserve team player of the year. An award won by no other than young Adnan last year. Anyone know much about them? How far are they away from first-team play? Over to you batdude.....
they are nowhere near the first team, or at least shouldnt be. Januzai was clearly a class above last year and it showed. Those 3 you mention will only ever be championship standard at best. Its more a statement of the reserve team quality at the moment that they are up for the award rather than the award showing they are capable of becoming first team regulars
Well, the worse case scenario has happened, unless Chelsea get 2 goals in the next 5 minutes (not going to happen) then Liverpool are champions. This season has hit a new low. Fair play to Liverpool though.
Comments
This is what I mean when I say it has to stop. Look at your parameters. "Would I have given up under the previous manager?" Are you seriously comparing SAF to Moyes? Given their track record? That's a level of how much over-expectation you and others had. We needed a Mourinho, a Pep, a Heycknes or an Ancelotti. Someone who had been there, done it and most crucially of all could handle the pressure of managing a top club. And of course, the unknowns are exactly what new players any of those managers would have bought to the club. Jose's buys this season have been criminally underrated, in my view.
I'll ignore your second para and as for the third, just a little bit assumptive don't you think? I have not dropped my standards, I am simply being realistic about the situation. I don't want to suffer any more seasons like this or the perennial Wegner view of a CL spot being as good as a trophy. Moyes doesn't seem to be going anywhere for a while so rather than rant about his failings I am trying to look for the positives that may restore us to former glories. Such as, he took the squad as far in the CL as SAF did last season and our away record. Also, looking ahead, over his career he has made more good buys than bad ones so if he does spend big and we are still bad next season at least the new manager will have a decent squad to work with.
Name me one player apart from Rooney and de Gea that have performed as well this season as they did last season. Is that all Moyes fault?
Yes it is Moyes fault, of course it is. If its apparently all down to SAF that he managed to put a winning team on the park last season then how is it not the managers fault that we haven't done it this? You can't apply the double standards whereby the manager get the plaudits last season but the players take the blame this.
You also can't say that I can't compare Moyes to SAF. Yes i can. One was the Man Utd manager and one is the Man Utd manager, what do you expect me to do? If they can't be compared in terms of expectation then that is further proof that its the wrong man in the job and if you concede that that is the case then why should we just sit back and accept it? Where do you draw the line here? If they gave me the job next and i won one game all season would you shift the goalposts again and say "Yeah its terrible but actually its not bad considering he's never managed a team before?" No of course you wouldn't, you would say "What the hell is this idiot doing managing our team??". That is just an over-exagerated example of what you are doing now. You ARE lowering the bar because we have put this man in charge.
People bemoaned our lack of progress in the CL in the past you are now quoting "Moyes did as well in the CL as SAF did last season" as a plus point. Who is comparing the two managers now?
When a team fails, it's the manager who pays for it by getting the sack, whether people think that's right or not.
Moyes has failed big time, so why is he still in a job?
It's been pointed out many times, if he'd dragged down a team the way he has United, if he was with another PL team, he'd have been given the sack by now, to try to stop the decline.
I agree with the above. Moyes is to blame for the current position.
I wouldn't agree with that, as for me mid table teams are the Southamptons and Newcastles. We are just not a top 4 team at the moment but I can't see us failing to qualify for the ITV4 cup.
That's where I disagree with some of you, as I think even with the present team, with no more than like-for-like squad changes in the summer, we will do better than this season and that implies a decent challenge for the top 4 and the ability to occasionally beat one of them!
Beyond that depends on who we manage to buy in the summer but if we can strengthen the midfield and defence, we'd be a shoo in for top 4 but 3rd or above? It's too soon to say.
I'm not an apologist for Moyes, he's failed this season, and I can think of a few other managers who would almost certainly have done better. But he will do better too next season if he keeps his job, and that probably depends on the team's performances and results in the next four games. Sunday should tell us a lot, one way or the other. It's Moyes's cup final and the players know it.
Don't know about title (Wreck-It Moyes?), but I get visions of 2001 a space odyssey...
"Just what do you think you're doing, Dave?"
7th if Arsenal win the FA Cup, I think (can someone check that please?).
EDIT OK 6th, I defer to Steveaustin316 below. Not qualifying might not be a bad thing though (but if we beat Everton that should see us make 6th so what to do? What to do?)
Hull will get the Europa League place as Arsenal will have qualified for the CL after finishing 4th.
Play your weakest possible team for the remaining games, problem solved.:D
That would be anyone with Moyes in charge, he would make a mess of Munich:D:D
Agree completely. Whoever he'd have signed, he won't know what to do with them to get the best out of them.
It's like when people say even if he had Ronnie and Messi he'd turn them into mediocre players!
Yep, he has 1 method that he appears not to deviate from, it would be the same regardless of whether he's managing Everton, United, Bayern Munich or Rochdale.
Don't be silly.
exactly!
and there is too much of this from people. Unless you read the copious amount of rubbish, pedantry and complete u-turning on opinion after arguing until bluer than a smurf hanging itself that comes from that poster you really shouldnt be offering an opinion on it frankly.
they are nowhere near the first team, or at least shouldnt be. Januzai was clearly a class above last year and it showed. Those 3 you mention will only ever be championship standard at best. Its more a statement of the reserve team quality at the moment that they are up for the award rather than the award showing they are capable of becoming first team regulars
Im thinking Stand By Me - but he certainly isn't River Phoenix
But if Everton finish 4th and take the CL spot and Arsenal win the FA Cup ( and finish 5th ), the Europa places will go to :
Arsenal ( as FA Cup winners, which is first call on a Europa place )
Team that finishes 6th in the PL.
Team that finishes 7th in the PL.
Yes, Arsenal are more likely to finish 4th, so the Europa places would then be Hull, 5th team and 6th team.
But Everton finishing 4th ahead of Arsenal and Arsenal winning the FA Cup remains very possible.
All credit to Liverpool, they have fully deserved to be on top of the league, but it doesn't mean I have to enjoy it!
Deary me, it really is not going to be much fun staying in this country!