In their first two albums:
Adele had written 7 songs by herself.
Taylor Swift had written 7 songs by herself.
Adele has spoken often about how the third album will be completely by herself, including production.
With the type of music and lyrics Taylor Swift creates, it's easy to see how she can write 26 songs while on tour. Really easy.
Adele Adkins won songwriter of the year at the Ivors. I understand those who just don't like her. But please cut the sh!t out about the co-writers. I get you don't have much to knock her on, but when your fav is using co-writers and a bunch of producers, you don't have a leg to stand on with this argument.
As has been explained to you before taylors co-writes with liz rose were taylor's origional songs, liz rose was not brought into the fray to co-write with taylor but to mentor her.
Of course you are right about red, she does have co-writers on this album and in fact is the first time she has ever sat down and co-written a song. But we all know why this was done. the only question is was it taylors decision outright, was a carrot dangled or did her record label tell her to do it. Guess we will never find out the real answer.
Anyone who knows anything about music would never say taylors songs are simple. In fact she is the master of the self penned personal song, cant recall another artist who can write such personal songs the way she does, pure genuis.
And what adele says about her third album and what actually will happen are 2 diferent things, I doubt we will ever see another album from her but if we do it will be at the end of this decade and to be honest she will struggle to make any impact, far more talented artists then adele have struggled to have any real impact after a layoff, dido is one such artist and I guess shania twain will be another.
As has been explained to you before taylors co-writes with liz rose were taylor's origional songs, liz rose was not brought into the fray to co-write with taylor but to mentor her.
Of course you are right about red, she does have co-writers on this album and in fact is the first time she has ever sat down and co-written a song. But we all know why this was done. the only question is was it taylors decision outright, was a carrot dangled or did her record label tell her to do it. Guess we will never find out the real answer.
Anyone who knows anything about music would never say taylors songs are simple. In fact she is the master of the self penned personal song, cant recall another artist who can write such personal songs the way she does, pure genuis.
And what adele says about her third album and what actually will happen are 2 diferent things, I doubt we will ever see another album from her but if we do it will be at the end of this decade and to be honest she will struggle to make any impact, far more talented artists then adele have struggled to have any real impact after a layoff, dido is one such artist and I guess shania twain will be another.
Adele says she wrote 95% of 19 by herself. And like 65% of 21. And this from a girl who doesn't look for attention.
I don't care what Liz Rose and TS's relationship is. She is listed as co-writer. You have no idea what relationship Adele had with her co-writers. If you watch her track by track interview, she wrote the lyrics to those songs at the very least. And the music for most of them on guitar.
There are rumors that half of the new album is already written. Adele isn't going any where. She has just started.
Still cant shift them outside her 12 year old girl american girl fanbase though can she
But thats her market so its not actually an insult.
Yes her songs are cheesy and cater to her young teen girl country/pop market (predominantly southern US as you alluded to), yes she hasn't the best voice, but shes not harming anyone and is doing what other teen acts do and thats cater to a market. Shes also shown herself to be shrewd in getting Max Martin on board (the last song had his fingerprints all over it).
TBH dont have that much tme for artists that are puppets and do no more then sing other peoples songs.
Your loss, and I don't really get this condescending attitude of yours towards vocalist. Some of the greatest artists in history were simply vocalists singing songs, or more broadly music, composed by others, starting from the classical music, through blues and jazz, all the way to pop. I don't think a mediocre artist has anything on these vocalists just on strenght of writing mediocre songs by herself/himself. In fact, if such an artist has some brains, she/he will do what's needed to get his/her art to a higher level, and that will usually mean turn to others for help, inspiration, co-operation.
By your logic ABBA would consider of two time worthy musicians, Benny and Björn, and two not worthy, Agnetha and Frida. That's absurd. Without their vocal abilities there would be no ABBA.
I'm still not entirely clear where GL gets these 70% US/30% rest of world figures when it comes to Taylor's album sales. Is it like the mythical 25 million album sales? Face it, she's huge in the US. HUGE. No question. But not really anywhere else. Still very impressive sales but why try and make them look even better by making stuff up? There are many examples of huge grossing 'country' acts who aren't even known in the rest of the world; that's the way it is.
Adele says she wrote 95% of 19 by herself. And like 65% of 21. And this from a girl who doesn't look for attention.
I don't care what Liz Rose and TS's relationship is. She is listed as co-writer. You have no idea what relationship Adele had with her co-writers. If you watch her track by track interview, she wrote the lyrics to those songs at the very least. And the music for most of them on guitar.
There are rumors that half of the new album is already written. Adele isn't going any where. She has just started.
No one has every disputed adele's self penned writes on 19 and I think hometown glory is a half decent track but we are talking about 21, which is the album she is famous for, without 21, 19 would have been forgotten about ages ago.
Its clear that she (or her record company) did not have the confidence that she could write 21 on her own thats why she teamed up with a team of songwriters who were responsible to some extent for every song on 21. If adele had written even half of 21 on her own she would have had more respect, but its clear the whole album is geared around co-writers, its impossible to say it wasn't. Nothing wrong in that at all but it does question her songwriting talent and longevitiy as a quality songwriter, 21 is a somewhat backward step from 19 for her talent wise but was a wise move as it means she is not set up for life even if she dont sing another song again.
Anyway enough about adele, she sould not even be mention here in a taylor sales thread.
Your loss, and I don't really get this condescending attitude of yours towards vocalist. Some of the greatest artists in history were simply vocalists singing songs, or more broadly music, composed by others, starting from the classical music, through blues and jazz, all the way to pop. I don't think a mediocre artist has anything on these vocalists just on strenght of writing mediocre songs by herself/himself. In fact, if such an artist has some brains, she/he will do what's needed to get his/her art to a higher level, and that will usually mean turn to others for help, inspiration, co-operation.
By your logic ABBA would consider of two time worthy musicians, Benny and Björn, and two not worthy, Agnetha and Frida. That's absurd. Without their vocal abilities there would be no ABBA.
Abba were a group, you cant compare abba to someone like rhianna.:eek:
No one has every disputed adele's self penned writes on 19 and I think hometown glory is a half decent track but we are talking about 21, which is the album she is famous for, without 21, 19 would have been forgotten about ages ago.
Its clear that she (or her record company) did not have the confidence that she could write 21 on her own thats why she teamed up with a team of songwriters who were responsible to some extent for every song on 21. If adele had written even half of 21 on her own she would have had more respect, but its clear the whole album is geared around co-writers, its impossible to say it wasn't. Nothing wrong in that at all but it does question her songwriting talent and longevitiy as a quality songwriter, 21 is a somewhat backward step from 19 for her talent wise but was a wise move as it means she is not set up for life even if she dont sing another song again.
Here GL i have to agree with Shadesofblack im not disputuing the co-writes but watch the track by track interview the bulk of the album was already outlined and written when she went to producers etc wether it was a backward step she didn't have the faith in her own ability who can say a third album will gauge where she stands as a lyricist and a vocalist.
And as for the Abba comment i think the person was saying as Agnetha and Frieda never wrote a full stop let alone a song does that diminish their credibility and impact and only Bjorn and Benny are of any note as they were the musical force and directive behind the group.
Abba were a group, you cant compare abba to someone like rhianna.:eek:
This has nothing to do with the discussion. It went like this:
1. your statement: "TBH dont have that much tme for artists that are puppets and do no more then sing other peoples songs"
2. my disputing wisdom of such an approach
3. ABBA was used as an example to show how acc to your logic the song writers (Benny and Björn) are ok, and the vocalists (Agnetha and Frida) are not worthy of attention.
If you don't understand this example, then take Elvis Presley. He was basically singing songs composed by others. By your logic, he is not worthy of your attention. I could give a whole list of great artists from different genres that you just wrote off with your logic. You are entitled to such opinion, but I don't share it.
This has nothing to do with the discussion. It went like this:
1. your statement: "TBH dont have that much tme for artists that are puppets and do no more then sing other peoples songs"
2. my disputing wisdom of such an approach
3. ABBA was used as an example to show how acc to your logic the song writers (Benny and Björn) are ok, and the vocalists (Agnetha and Frida) are not worthy of attention.
If you don't understand this example, then take Elvis Presley. He was basically singing songs composed by others. By your logic, he is not worthy of your attention. I could give a whole list of great artists from different genres that you just wrote off with your logic. You are entitled to such opinion, but I don't share it.
You clearly have no idea what I meant by my puppet comments
I'm still not entirely clear where GL gets these 70% US/30% rest of world figures when it comes to Taylor's album sales. Is it like the mythical 25 million album sales? Face it, she's huge in the US. HUGE. No question. But not really anywhere else. Still very impressive sales but why try and make them look even better by making stuff up? There are many examples of huge grossing 'country' acts who aren't even known in the rest of the world; that's the way it is.
going by record company figures its 80% us 20% worldwide, i had to properly check yesterday as someone had previously inflated the accurate numbers on wiki (20 million using record company info and sales data) up to 28 million
You clearly have no idea what I meant by my puppet comments
I think I do, but I didn't comment on your usage of the word, nor mentioned Rihanna, because that's another discussion.
The point in question is worthinnes of composers/song writers as opposed (in your opinion, as far as I understand) of those who are "just" singers/vocalists. Once we get this point cleared, we can move on. Otherwise we will go in circles. If I misunderstood, clarify.
And as for the Abba comment i think the person was saying as Agnetha and Frieda never wrote a full stop let alone a song does that diminish their credibility and impact and only Bjorn and Benny are of any note as they were the musical force and directive behind the group.
Exactly. Thank you. Instead of discussing how much Adele or Taylor wrote of the songs they perform (and I could say a word or two about the first), I'm going after the concept of dissing vocalists as not worthy of attention.
going by record company figures its 80% us 20% worldwide, i had to properly check yesterday as someone had previously inflated the accurate numbers on wiki (20 million using record company info and sales data) up to 28 million
Yes, and this is why nobody can seriously claim she's the bggest female artist on the planet right now. Surely to be in with a chance of such a title the album sales/success can't be so centred on one country? Like I said before, her sales in the US are consistently amazing but they dwarf her sales in the rest of the world (combined). Can't be classed as a worldwide superstar looking at the facts.
There is literally no evidence that Taylor is even in the running for being the biggest female artist in the world.
So far all that has been presented is that she's massive in the US but not entirely non existent world wide thanks to a few million international album sales. That's great, but to be the biggest female artist in the world you need to DOMINATE internationally, not merely have a presence.
Here GL i have to agree with Shadesofblack im not disputuing the co-writes but watch the track by track interview the bulk of the album was already outlined and written when she went to producers etc wether it was a backward step she didn't have the faith in her own ability who can say a third album will gauge where she stands as a lyricist and a vocalist.
And as for the Abba comment i think the person was saying as Agnetha and Frieda never wrote a full stop let alone a song does that diminish their credibility and impact and only Bjorn and Benny are of any note as they were the musical force and directive behind the group.
Thank you. I'd like to add that Adele herself said she brought the songs to another writer or producer so that she didn't simply make another 19. She wanted to bring in elements that pushed her as an artist. Taylor Swift's songs before Red all sounded the same to me. For a reason. She needed to grow as an artist so she hired pop writers to push her there. You might not like the new sound she's headed to but at least she's trying to prolong her longevity. Yes, GL. I know you think she will be around forever. And by the way, she has said she wants a big family. Uh oh.
Adele recorded half of 21 with Rick Rubin, her boss and co-president of Columbia. She then scrapped all of that and went with her demo cuts, most of which were made in one take, in hole in the wall studios. They wanted to make a big production of Someone Like you and she would not and made them keep it at piano only. She is a fighter and a creative artist and she is not a puppet.
Taylor Swift and every other musician out there today would have re-released 21. For the record breaking and acclaim and accolades and all those extra millions. But she will not let XL do it. No one will make a decision for her music, unlike Taylor (if GL is right about her being pushed into working with others).
Edit: I still hope that 21 will be re-released or at least put in a box set for the holidays. Looks really doubtful for a re-release now or ever.
Are we still going on about bloody Adele!? I would seriously love to know why people love to camp out in Taylor Swift threads pedalling Adele. The common excuse of GL started it doesn't stand up in this case. There is no connection between the two and it really shouldn't pain people if certain individuals don't like Adele or vice-versa. I know I couldn't care less if Adele fans aren't buying Red or like Taylor.
Back on topic, I don't see this being a true breakout album internationally. I may be well off but I think it's going to end up selling around 3 million tops internationally and around 5 million in the US so on the level of Fearless sales. She may never be a big seller outside of the US and I for one am fine with that.
Are we still going on about bloody Adele!? I would seriously love to know why people love to camp out in Taylor Swift threads pedalling Adele. The common excuse of GL started it doesn't stand up in this case. There is no connection between the two and it really shouldn't pain people if certain individuals don't like Adele or vice-versa. I know I couldn't care less if Adele fans aren't buying Red or like Taylor.
Back on topic, I don't see this being a true breakout album internationally. I may be well off but I think it's going to end up selling around 3 million tops internationally and around 5 million in the US so on the level of Fearless sales. She may never be a big seller outside of the US and I for one am fine with that.
What do others see this selling?
Indeed, if they're so upset by GL's claims, why don't they just ignore her instead of spouting the same boring stuff in every Taylor thread? The majority of TS fans couldn't care less if she's sold more or less than Adele! Why don't they just make a Taylor vs Adele thread where they can argue all they like?
I'd agree with those figures although I think this will be her best selling UK album.
Are we still going on about bloody Adele!? I would seriously love to know why people love to camp out in Taylor Swift threads pedalling Adele. The common excuse of GL started it doesn't stand up in this case. There is no connection between the two and it really shouldn't pain people if certain individuals don't like Adele or vice-versa. I know I couldn't care less if Adele fans aren't buying Red or like Taylor.
Back on topic, I don't see this being a true breakout album internationally. I may be well off but I think it's going to end up selling around 3 million tops internationally and around 5 million in the US so on the level of Fearless sales. She may never be a big seller outside of the US and I for one am fine with that.
What do others see this selling?
I think it will sell a lot more then fearless eventually, there are a lot of people buying this who would never have bought taylor's previous albums based on a few pop singles. I think it will easily sell 10M in the next 24 months and I think it will result in her selling more of her others albums as many will buy the album for the pop singles and then realise what a talent she is and invest in her others.
I hope taylor goes back to solo writing totally on the next album and reverts back to her country/rock sound rather then that overwhelming feeling of pop we have on this album.
I know 8 people who have bought red and the average age of these is 31!
Indeed, if they're so upset by GL's claims, why don't they just ignore her instead of spouting the same boring stuff in every Taylor thread? The majority of TS fans couldn't care less if she's sold more or less than Adele! Why don't they just make a Taylor vs Adele thread where they can argue all they like?
I'd agree with those figures although I think this will be her best selling UK album.
I think some adele stan did that earlier in the year but it got ruined if my memory serves me correct.
But I realy dont understand why the usual suspects hang out here posting false information and generally trying to discredit taylor.
I think some adele stan did that earlier in the year but it got ruined if my memory serves me correct.
But I realy dont understand why the usual suspects hang out here posting false information and generally trying to discredit taylor.
In the same way you do Adele in this instance you are far from innocent
In the same way you do Adele in this instance you are far from innocent
I dont go into adele sales theads writing false information and trying to discredit her. I wait for people to set up threads to moan about her to post in, and thats fair game, doing it in a thread like this is pretty lame really. I know adele has retired now but surely her stans still have something to discuss rather then dis taylor day on day.
I just ignore them now, other taylor fans should as well.
I dont go into adele sales theads writing false information and trying to discredit her. I wait for people to set up threads to moan about her to post in, and thats fair game, doing it in a thread like this is pretty lame really. I know adele has retired now but surely her stans still have something to discuss rather then dis taylor day on day.
I just ignore them now, other taylor fans should as well.
Your always in an Adele thread doing eaxctly the same as Adele stans do in TS threads both sides have no ground to stand on in this instance but i suppose its nice to see fans get behind their artists in such passionate ways
Comments
As has been explained to you before taylors co-writes with liz rose were taylor's origional songs, liz rose was not brought into the fray to co-write with taylor but to mentor her.
Of course you are right about red, she does have co-writers on this album and in fact is the first time she has ever sat down and co-written a song. But we all know why this was done. the only question is was it taylors decision outright, was a carrot dangled or did her record label tell her to do it. Guess we will never find out the real answer.
Anyone who knows anything about music would never say taylors songs are simple. In fact she is the master of the self penned personal song, cant recall another artist who can write such personal songs the way she does, pure genuis.
And what adele says about her third album and what actually will happen are 2 diferent things, I doubt we will ever see another album from her but if we do it will be at the end of this decade and to be honest she will struggle to make any impact, far more talented artists then adele have struggled to have any real impact after a layoff, dido is one such artist and I guess shania twain will be another.
Adele says she wrote 95% of 19 by herself. And like 65% of 21. And this from a girl who doesn't look for attention.
I don't care what Liz Rose and TS's relationship is. She is listed as co-writer. You have no idea what relationship Adele had with her co-writers. If you watch her track by track interview, she wrote the lyrics to those songs at the very least. And the music for most of them on guitar.
There are rumors that half of the new album is already written. Adele isn't going any where. She has just started.
But thats her market so its not actually an insult.
Yes her songs are cheesy and cater to her young teen girl country/pop market (predominantly southern US as you alluded to), yes she hasn't the best voice, but shes not harming anyone and is doing what other teen acts do and thats cater to a market. Shes also shown herself to be shrewd in getting Max Martin on board (the last song had his fingerprints all over it).
By your logic ABBA would consider of two time worthy musicians, Benny and Björn, and two not worthy, Agnetha and Frida. That's absurd. Without their vocal abilities there would be no ABBA.
No one has every disputed adele's self penned writes on 19 and I think hometown glory is a half decent track but we are talking about 21, which is the album she is famous for, without 21, 19 would have been forgotten about ages ago.
Its clear that she (or her record company) did not have the confidence that she could write 21 on her own thats why she teamed up with a team of songwriters who were responsible to some extent for every song on 21. If adele had written even half of 21 on her own she would have had more respect, but its clear the whole album is geared around co-writers, its impossible to say it wasn't. Nothing wrong in that at all but it does question her songwriting talent and longevitiy as a quality songwriter, 21 is a somewhat backward step from 19 for her talent wise but was a wise move as it means she is not set up for life even if she dont sing another song again.
Anyway enough about adele, she sould not even be mention here in a taylor sales thread.
Abba were a group, you cant compare abba to someone like rhianna.:eek:
Here GL i have to agree with Shadesofblack im not disputuing the co-writes but watch the track by track interview the bulk of the album was already outlined and written when she went to producers etc wether it was a backward step she didn't have the faith in her own ability who can say a third album will gauge where she stands as a lyricist and a vocalist.
And as for the Abba comment i think the person was saying as Agnetha and Frieda never wrote a full stop let alone a song does that diminish their credibility and impact and only Bjorn and Benny are of any note as they were the musical force and directive behind the group.
1. your statement: "TBH dont have that much tme for artists that are puppets and do no more then sing other peoples songs"
2. my disputing wisdom of such an approach
3. ABBA was used as an example to show how acc to your logic the song writers (Benny and Björn) are ok, and the vocalists (Agnetha and Frida) are not worthy of attention.
If you don't understand this example, then take Elvis Presley. He was basically singing songs composed by others. By your logic, he is not worthy of your attention. I could give a whole list of great artists from different genres that you just wrote off with your logic. You are entitled to such opinion, but I don't share it.
You clearly have no idea what I meant by my puppet comments
going by record company figures its 80% us 20% worldwide, i had to properly check yesterday as someone had previously inflated the accurate numbers on wiki (20 million using record company info and sales data) up to 28 million
The point in question is worthinnes of composers/song writers as opposed (in your opinion, as far as I understand) of those who are "just" singers/vocalists. Once we get this point cleared, we can move on. Otherwise we will go in circles. If I misunderstood, clarify.
Yes, and this is why nobody can seriously claim she's the bggest female artist on the planet right now. Surely to be in with a chance of such a title the album sales/success can't be so centred on one country? Like I said before, her sales in the US are consistently amazing but they dwarf her sales in the rest of the world (combined). Can't be classed as a worldwide superstar looking at the facts.
So far all that has been presented is that she's massive in the US but not entirely non existent world wide thanks to a few million international album sales. That's great, but to be the biggest female artist in the world you need to DOMINATE internationally, not merely have a presence.
Thank you. I'd like to add that Adele herself said she brought the songs to another writer or producer so that she didn't simply make another 19. She wanted to bring in elements that pushed her as an artist. Taylor Swift's songs before Red all sounded the same to me. For a reason. She needed to grow as an artist so she hired pop writers to push her there. You might not like the new sound she's headed to but at least she's trying to prolong her longevity. Yes, GL. I know you think she will be around forever. And by the way, she has said she wants a big family. Uh oh.
Adele recorded half of 21 with Rick Rubin, her boss and co-president of Columbia. She then scrapped all of that and went with her demo cuts, most of which were made in one take, in hole in the wall studios. They wanted to make a big production of Someone Like you and she would not and made them keep it at piano only. She is a fighter and a creative artist and she is not a puppet.
Taylor Swift and every other musician out there today would have re-released 21. For the record breaking and acclaim and accolades and all those extra millions. But she will not let XL do it. No one will make a decision for her music, unlike Taylor (if GL is right about her being pushed into working with others).
Edit: I still hope that 21 will be re-released or at least put in a box set for the holidays. Looks really doubtful for a re-release now or ever.
Back on topic, I don't see this being a true breakout album internationally. I may be well off but I think it's going to end up selling around 3 million tops internationally and around 5 million in the US so on the level of Fearless sales. She may never be a big seller outside of the US and I for one am fine with that.
What do others see this selling?
Indeed, if they're so upset by GL's claims, why don't they just ignore her instead of spouting the same boring stuff in every Taylor thread? The majority of TS fans couldn't care less if she's sold more or less than Adele! Why don't they just make a Taylor vs Adele thread where they can argue all they like?
I'd agree with those figures although I think this will be her best selling UK album.
I think it will sell a lot more then fearless eventually, there are a lot of people buying this who would never have bought taylor's previous albums based on a few pop singles. I think it will easily sell 10M in the next 24 months and I think it will result in her selling more of her others albums as many will buy the album for the pop singles and then realise what a talent she is and invest in her others.
I hope taylor goes back to solo writing totally on the next album and reverts back to her country/rock sound rather then that overwhelming feeling of pop we have on this album.
I know 8 people who have bought red and the average age of these is 31!
I think some adele stan did that earlier in the year but it got ruined if my memory serves me correct.
But I realy dont understand why the usual suspects hang out here posting false information and generally trying to discredit taylor.
In the same way you do Adele in this instance you are far from innocent
I dont go into adele sales theads writing false information and trying to discredit her. I wait for people to set up threads to moan about her to post in, and thats fair game, doing it in a thread like this is pretty lame really. I know adele has retired now but surely her stans still have something to discuss rather then dis taylor day on day.
I just ignore them now, other taylor fans should as well.
Hopefully the http://theswiftagency.com/ taylor blog website will have pics and videos on it, its a brilliant website for tayor fans.
Some details he posted the other day.
http://theswiftagency.com/2012/11/03/the-sparkly-dressed-will-light-up-the-christmas-lights-in-fundon/
Your always in an Adele thread doing eaxctly the same as Adele stans do in TS threads both sides have no ground to stand on in this instance but i suppose its nice to see fans get behind their artists in such passionate ways