Any Experts On Electrical Circuits And Components ?

zoepaulpenny · 30/01/15 - 19:13

HI my radio is starting to go faulty. i have had the radio over 25 years. but i do not want a plastic cheaply made digital radio.. the one i have and use has a guts and was IMO made with decent parts.
the radio is a Panasonic model no RF-1405LBE mains and battery..
made in Singapore by matsushita electrics.

for anyone with the knowledge when i depress in the radio on button, the sound comes through, then dips to a low volume of goes off completely.. Have to keep pressing in the radio on button several times before sound and quality is there..

what is technically the fault.. thanks... someone casually mentioned it could be a capacitor !!!

https://www.flickr.com/photos/ralphstephenson/10911784545/

Galaxy266 · 30/01/15 - 20:47

It could be a lot of things!

I would suspect the switch.

chrisjr · 30/01/15 - 21:16

zoepaulpenny wrote: »

HI my radio is starting to go faulty. i have had the radio over 25 years. but i do not want a plastic cheaply made digital radio.. the one i have and use has a guts and was IMO made with decent parts.
the radio is a Panasonic model no RF-1405LBE mains and battery..
made in Singapore by matsushita electrics.

for anyone with the knowledge when i depress in the radio on button, the sound comes through, then dips to a low volume of goes off completely.. Have to keep pressing in the radio on button several times before sound and quality is there..

what is technically the fault.. thanks... someone casually mentioned it could be a capacitor !!!

https://www.flickr.com/photos/ralphstephenson/10911784545/

Totally impossible to diagnose the fault without access to the actual device.

Any electronic component can degrade over time. Electrolytic capacitors are prone to leaking or suffering from bulging tops which is a sure sign they are if not totally dead then very close. Though usually something like a degraded capacitor is terminal. Once it goes the device stops working properly. It may sort of work but with lots of noise or distortion which is there all the time.

Trouble is having the fault investigated and fixed may cost more than a replacement. And depending on what exactly has failed it may not be possible to repair at all if the affected component is no longer made.

I have one of these

http://www.robertsradio.co.uk/product_details/Ecologic_4.htm

sounds good, is decently made. Only does DAB and FM though

If you want something a bit more "old school" then

http://www.robertsradio.co.uk/product_details/R9954.htm
or
http://www.robertsradio.co.uk/product_details/R9928.htm

MartinPickering · 30/01/15 - 21:39

1. Nowadays manufacturers no longer supply a circuit diagram. I know nobody who can tackle anything but the simplest fault without a circuit to consult.

2. Nowadays, nobody wants to pay (say) £35 an hour for an indefinite number hours it might take to test the equipment using expensive equipment in order to determine the cause and probable cost of repair - assuming parts are available.

For these reasons, almost nobody offers to do repairs unless they have masochistic tendencies and like to work for no pay.

However, here's my offer: post it to me and I'll take a look at it when I'm in the appropriate frame of mind. If I can't fix it, I'll send it back to you for the cost of postage. If I can fix it, I'll charge you the going rate for parts and time.

zoepaulpenny · 30/01/15 - 22:15

chrisjr wrote: »

Totally impossible to diagnose the fault without access to the actual device.

Any electronic component can degrade over time. Electrolytic capacitors are prone to leaking or suffering from bulging tops which is a sure sign they are if not totally dead then very close. Though usually something like a degraded capacitor is terminal. Once it goes the device stops working properly. It may sort of work but with lots of noise or distortion which is there all the time.

Trouble is having the fault investigated and fixed may cost more than a replacement. And depending on what exactly has failed it may not be possible to repair at all if the affected component is no longer made.

I have one of these

http://www.robertsradio.co.uk/product_details/Ecologic_4.htm

sounds good, is decently made. Only does DAB and FM though

If you want something a bit more "old school" then

http://www.robertsradio.co.uk/product_details/R9954.htm
or
http://www.robertsradio.co.uk/product_details/R9928.htm

thanks for reply... nice looking radio's esp first one..

zoepaulpenny · 30/01/15 - 22:18

MartinPickering wrote: »

1. Nowadays manufacturers no longer supply a circuit diagram. I know nobody who can tackle anything but the simplest fault without a circuit to consult.

2. Nowadays, nobody wants to pay (say) £35 an hour for an indefinite number hours it might take to test the equipment using expensive equipment in order to determine the cause and probable cost of repair - assuming parts are available.

For these reasons, almost nobody offers to do repairs unless they have masochistic tendencies and like to work for no pay.

However, here's my offer: post it to me and I'll take a look at it when I'm in the appropriate frame of mind. If I can't fix it, I'll send it back to you for the cost of postage. If I can fix it, I'll charge you the going rate for parts and time.

lol... there are a few hobbyists who tinker with and repair electronic gadgets, because they enjoy doing it.. money comes second... it keeps them in their sheds.. or spare rooms.. my only problem is finding one.. and invite them to my radio..

zoepaulpenny · 30/01/15 - 22:23

chrisjr wrote: »

Totally impossible to diagnose the fault without access to the actual device.

Any electronic component can degrade over time. Electrolytic capacitors are prone to leaking or suffering from bulging tops which is a sure sign they are if not totally dead then very close. Though usually something like a degraded capacitor is terminal. Once it goes the device stops working properly. It may sort of work but with lots of noise or distortion which is there all the time.

Trouble is having the fault investigated and fixed may cost more than a replacement. And depending on what exactly has failed it may not be possible to repair at all if the affected component is no longer made.

I have one of these

http://www.robertsradio.co.uk/product_details/Ecologic_4.htm

sounds good, is decently made. Only does DAB and FM though

If you want something a bit more "old school" then

http://www.robertsradio.co.uk/product_details/R9954.htm
or
http://www.robertsradio.co.uk/product_details/R9928.htm

buy the way bulging tops on capacitors indicates that it is going to pop.. but can be replaced.. manufacturers esp with new flat TV's is that they underrate the capacitors. this is done on purpose.. it would not happen if the capacitor were over rated.. in other words, a stronger and slightly bigger one.. . all makes are guilty of this.

bart4858 · 30/01/15 - 23:35

zoepaulpenny wrote: »

lol... there are a few hobbyists who tinker with and repair electronic gadgets, because they enjoy doing it.. money comes second... it keeps them in their sheds.. or spare rooms.. my only problem is finding one.. and invite them to my radio..

You want them to fix your radio for next to nothing but appear to have little respect for them! Yes, keep them out of sight in a back room! (But that's a typical attitude in the UK towards engineers.)

You can buy a replacement for your radio off eBay. Second-hand, but it won't be much older than yours, and might be less expensive than paying for a repair.

Nigel Goodwin · 31/01/15 - 08:59

zoepaulpenny wrote: »

buy the way bulging tops on capacitors indicates that it is going to pop.. but can be replaced.. manufacturers esp with new flat TV's is that they underrate the capacitors. this is done on purpose.. it would not happen if the capacitor were over rated.. in other words, a stronger and slightly bigger one.. . all makes are guilty of this.

Almost totally untrue - the poorer manufacturers fit the cheapest crappiest capacitors they can buy - knowing full well they will only have short life (the datasheets even specify this). So they aren't 'under-rated', they are just cheap crap - the 'ratings' often claim to be just as good as decent makes.

'All' makes certainly aren't guilty of this, it's not a problem in Sony sets - or (as far as I'm aware) Panasonic ones - both of whom fit decent quality capacitors.

bri160356 · 31/01/15 - 15:05

zoepaulpenny wrote: »

HI my radio is starting to go faulty. i have had the radio over 25 years. but i do not want a plastic cheaply made digital radio.. the one i have and use has a guts and was IMO made with decent parts.
the radio is a Panasonic model no RF-1405LBE mains and battery..
made in Singapore by matsushita electrics.

for anyone with the knowledge when i depress in the radio on button, the sound comes through, then dips to a low volume of goes off completely.. Have to keep pressing in the radio on button several times before sound and quality is there..

what is technically the fault.. thanks... someone casually mentioned it could be a capacitor !!!

https://www.flickr.com/photos/ralphstephenson/10911784545/

The reason it’s only lasted 25+ years is because you bought an inferior product in the first place......”made in Singapore by matsushita electrics” tells you all you need to know!

Don’t be a cheap-skate and buy a new one.

Look out for the ‘Made In China’ sticker next time...........you can’t go wrong.

Yosemite · 31/01/15 - 16:26

bri160356 wrote: »

The reason it’s only lasted 25+ years is because you bought an inferior product in the first place......”made in Singapore by matsushita electrics” tells you all you need to know!

Clueless.

Jellied Eel · 31/01/15 - 16:57

bri160356 wrote: »

The reason it’s only lasted 25+ years is because you bought an inferior product in the first place......”made in Singapore by matsushita electrics” tells you all you need to know!

The fact it's lasted 25yrs suggests it's not exactly inferior. It's lasted a lot longer than the average iPhone or iPad is likely to.

But back to the story..

for anyone with the knowledge when i depress in the radio on button, the sound comes through, then dips to a low volume of goes off completely.. Have to keep pressing in the radio on button several times before sound and quality is there.

Any idea how the button works? I found this-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i0A2LVk0NRM

which looks like it's some form of latching switch, so that might be worn and needs replacing, or it'll be hunting for the bad capacitor. At least having discrete components, it will likely be easy-ish to repair. This site-

http://www.radiomuseum.org/r/panasonic_rf_1405lbs_rf1405lbs.html

looks like it has a circuit diagram.

(also saw the same YT channel showed off a Grundig Yacht Boy like mine.. But Grundig was one of those nice companies that usually stuck a circuit diagram under the cover. Old radios are also fun for sometimes having long-dead 'ghost stations' on the dials)

zoepaulpenny · 31/01/15 - 19:57

bart4858 wrote: »

You want them to fix your radio for next to nothing but appear to have little respect for them! Yes, keep them out of sight in a back room! (But that's a typical attitude in the UK towards engineers.)

You can buy a replacement for your radio off eBay. Second-hand, but it won't be much older than yours, and might be less expensive than paying for a repair.

LOL not true.. the radio has sentimental value which cannot be bought...

because it has sentimental value.. i would have consider payer more than it is worth to have it fixed..

zoepaulpenny · 31/01/15 - 19:58

Nigel Goodwin wrote: »

Almost totally untrue - the poorer manufacturers fit the cheapest crappiest capacitors they can buy - knowing full well they will only have short life (the datasheets even specify this). So they aren't 'under-rated', they are just cheap crap - the 'ratings' often claim to be just as good as decent makes.

'All' makes certainly aren't guilty of this, it's not a problem in Sony sets - or (as far as I'm aware) Panasonic ones - both of whom fit decent quality capacitors.

Nigel according to Sony website forum they have other issues, not caps..

zoepaulpenny · 31/01/15 - 20:01

bri160356 wrote: »

The reason it’s only lasted 25+ years is because you bought an inferior product in the first place......”made in Singapore by matsushita electrics” tells you all you need to know!

Don’t be a cheap-skate and buy a new one.

Look out for the ‘Made In China’ sticker next time...........you can’t go wrong.

REMARKS about being a cheap skate, not a chance.. will pay a couple of hundred for a radio... but it will not have character or sentimental value.. regardless where it was made
actually made in uk.. is just as rubbish as china..

Nigel Goodwin · 31/01/15 - 20:27

zoepaulpenny wrote: »

Nigel according to Sony website forum they have other issues, not caps..

Is this statement any more accurate than your last one

Certainly reliability is far higher than the lesser makes.

zoepaulpenny · 01/02/15 - 00:01

Nigel Goodwin wrote: »

Is this statement any more accurate than your last one

Certainly reliability is far higher than the lesser makes.

yes i would agree.. as a general rule of thumb.. get what you pay for....
but even the elite makes.. often and do have frequent bad batches..

bri160356 · 01/02/15 - 06:44

Yosemite wrote: »

Clueless.

Humourless.

bri160356 · 01/02/15 - 07:35

zoepaulpenny wrote: »

REMARKS about being a cheap skate, not a chance.. will pay a couple of hundred for a radio... but it will not have character or sentimental value.. regardless where it was made
actually made in uk.. is just as rubbish as china..

Ok, you’re not a cheap-skate;..... apologies if my brevity upset you.

As someone who has worked in Radio/comms/electronic/IT service industries my entire life I’m always a little bemused how some people can get emotionally attached to things like an old portable radio; however, that’s just me and you clearly have a deep affection for yours.

It’s was obviously a fine construction in its day and was made with good quality, basic components; 25+ years loyal service attests to that.

You may find someone (not me these days by the way!) that would be willing to tinker around and fix it for you, but your joy will be short-lived as other vital ‘organs’ will soon start to fail as well.

I think it’s time to let go;.......euthanasia is sometimes for the best.

zoepaulpenny · 01/02/15 - 20:17

bri160356 wrote: »

Ok, you’re not a cheap-skate;..... apologies if my brevity upset you.

As someone who has worked in Radio/comms/electronic/IT service industries my entire life I’m always a little bemused how some people can get emotionally attached to things like an old portable radio; however, that’s just me and you clearly have a deep affection for yours.

It’s was obviously a fine construction in its day and was made with good quality, basic components; 25+ years loyal service attests to that.

You may find someone (not me these days by the way!) that would be willing to tinker around and fix it for you, but your joy will be short-lived as other vital ‘organs’ will soon start to fail as well.

I think it’s time to let go;.......euthanasia is sometimes for the best.

your remark made me laugh.. that was a good thing.. not a negative
but we both know it is time to discard the radio.. looking at better quality ones..
digital of course.. hopefully not the bottom end of the market..

RobinOfLoxley · 01/02/15 - 20:39

BBC4 The Sound of Song is repeated tonight at 11.40pm.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b050rbz8

It shows the evolution of electronic technology in music over the decades.

A sequence in it showed ghetto blasters, and my first one popped into my head (aged 15 I suppose).

I got all nostalgic and had a look on eBay to see if I could spot it.

Big heavy lump it was (Sharp or Aiwa or Akai) and I never took it to da' street.
It stayed in my room, but I loved it.

Chucked out when I left home probably, it was a hand me down anyway from a Travelling Aunt.

watermeade · 01/02/15 - 20:41

Try on here http://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=37

Jellied Eel · 01/02/15 - 20:57

bri160356 wrote: »

As someone who has worked in Radio/comms/electronic/IT service industries my entire life I’m always a little bemused how some people can get emotionally attached to things like an old portable radio; however, that’s just me and you clearly have a deep affection for yours.

Pfft.. Try doing the same but with people talking about stuff like CNI and this-

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/136351/Emergency_Communications_1_.pdf

and how some.. bright young things think it could all be done with an app. AM radio still has it's uses

zoepaulpenny · 02/02/15 - 15:09

watermeade wrote: »

Try on here http://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=37

CHEERS...go over there now..

koantemplation · 02/02/15 - 16:19

Have you seen if there is one of those Repair clubs in your area?

The ones where you can go and get electrical items repaired and learn how to repair them yourself?

Something like this.

https://brightonrepaircafe.wordpress.com/tag/electrical-repair/

zoepaulpenny · 02/02/15 - 20:04

koantemplation wrote: »

Have you seen if there is one of those Repair clubs in your area?

The ones where you can go and get electrical items repaired and learn how to repair them yourself?

Something like this.

https://brightonrepaircafe.wordpress.com/tag/electrical-repair/

having a browse now at any repair cafe..in my area.. good idea.. cheers for that

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Any Experts On Electrical Circuits And Components ?

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