Scottish independence: let's have an honest debate (P3)

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  • BrawladBrawlad Posts: 5,711
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    munta wrote: »
    I asked for evidence. You provided a link as evidence. It wasn't.

    You really are having difficulty today aren't you.

    i provided a link to the BBC report which you pointed out contained no information for you to make up your mind. I then pointed out that it was poor reporting from the BBC that was to blame for that. Is that easy enough for you?
  • James2001James2001 Posts: 73,652
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    And does their behaviour somehow excuse the behaviour of the Yes mobs going after Jim Murphy? It seems nobody's prepared to condemn them, just deflect by telling us what No supporters have supposedly done.
  • muntamunta Posts: 18,285
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    Brawlad wrote: »
    i provided a link to the BBC report which you pointed out contained no information for you to make up your mind. I then pointed out that it was poor reporting from the BBC that was to blame for that. Is that easy enough for you?

    Why are you finding it so hard to understand?

    I asked for Evidence for the claims. You provided a link as evidence for those claims. It contained no evidence for the claims.

    You are showing your self up big time.

    Anyway, whatever I say wont persuade you since you wont let facts interfere with your dogamatism. So I guess we will just have to leave it at that. :)
  • mindsetmindset Posts: 23,949
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    momma11 wrote: »
    I quite believe the egg throwing incident was a stunt arranged by Jim Murphy.
    He's more than capable of it .
    The man is a street brawler , I don't like him or his politics .

    http://www.scotsman.com/news/brian-monteith-salmond-to-blame-for-ugly-scenes-1-3526685

    then: http://www.thecourier.co.uk/news/politics/settler-watch-founder-was-among-hecklers-at-jim-murphy-s-montrose-rally-1.548179

    Settler Watch indeed......
  • tiggertinytiggertiny Posts: 5,361
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    Brawlad wrote: »
    That is why Scotland should vote yes . so that privatization of the NHS cannot happen in Scotland[/QUOTE

    Just because Scotland may vote for independence doesn't of itself guarantee anything the government has made so many spending promises what will drive everything is how much money is available.

    However, I don't believe privatisation, that is charging people for treatment at the point of delivery, in the mainstream NHS here or in Scotland is likely but further cost saving is very likely and in Scotland with something like 17% of the population aged 65 or over will bring ever more pressure on services and newer and expensive treatments will also add to the upward pressure on costs.
  • bhoy07bhoy07 Posts: 25,036
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    Did you hear about the 'yes' shop that didn't look like an actual yes shop that was firebombed.

    Turns out it was the bin outside on fire
  • Mc256Mc256 Posts: 362
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    I also think that the SNP will be doing some re evaluating after a NO vote.

    it seems they are preparing for it even now but I'm not entirely sure that sturgeons the one to lead the party.

    http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/nowhere-go-snp-draw-up-4142040

    It's been rumoured for a few weeks now that Sturgeon I has been the source of a few leaks........ I wonder when the coup will begin?

    Try this one.


    The campaign for human rights at Glasgow uni.
  • James2001James2001 Posts: 73,652
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    bhoy07 wrote: »
    Did you hear about the 'yes' shop that didn't look like an actual yes shop that was firebombed.

    Turns out it was the bin outside on fire

    Oh dear, so not only was it not a Yes shop, it wasn't even on fire, it was just a bin. Which means it was most likely just a bunch of chavs/neds, not a No supporter. What a shock!

    So basically, it was a bin in front of an empty shop that had Yes stickers that was set fire too. Seems a tad less dramatic than the idea of a Yes shop being firebombed by No supporters!
  • duckymallardduckymallard Posts: 13,936
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    James2001 wrote: »
    And does their behaviour somehow excuse the behaviour of the Yes mobs going after Jim Murphy? It seems nobody's prepared to condemn them, just deflect by telling us what No supporters have supposedly done.

    Going after?

    Murphy is the one touring the country and setting up his soapbox in city centres and advertising ahead of time when he's going to be there. Not much "going after" required really.
  • thmsthms Posts: 61,009
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    Can't really add to this. It's an American radio station discussing the referendum..

    https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10152686075243832&set=vb.579513831

    Actually.. I can.. it's not very complimentary about the British press or Better Together.. ;-)
  • geemonkeegeemonkee Posts: 2,720
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    thms wrote: »
    Can't really add to this. It's an American radio station discussing the referendum..

    https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10152686075243832&set=vb.579513831

    Actually.. I can.. it's not very complimentary about the British press or Better Together.. ;-)

    Good piece - highlights the divisive ill-feelings that the No campaign are trying to fuel. The more they try to make hay over an 'egg' while at the same time underplaying more serious incidents against Yes supporters, the more foolish they are looking. BT would have been better doing NOTHING from the start of the campaign - all they're doing is galvanising Yes supporters and encouraging undecided voters to vote Yes also. Their falsehoods, folly and threats will be their undoing.
  • David TeeDavid Tee Posts: 22,833
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    The word from Nick Robinson is that the YouGov poll tonight will have Salmond smiling.
  • bhoy07bhoy07 Posts: 25,036
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    David Tee wrote: »
    The word from Nick Robinson is that the YouGov poll tonight will have Salmond smiling.

    are we not to ignore this one then?
  • David TeeDavid Tee Posts: 22,833
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    bhoy07 wrote: »
    are we not to ignore this one then?

    I think they're all relevant now, aren't they?
  • KIIS102KIIS102 Posts: 8,539
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    YouGov Poll tonight.

    No 53% (-4)
    Yes 47% (+4)

    Something tells me, when it's all counted, it won't actually be this close.
  • thmsthms Posts: 61,009
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    KIIS102 wrote: »
    YouGov Poll tonight.

    No 53% (-4)
    Yes 47% (+4)

    Something tells me, when it's all counted, it won't actually be this close.

    It will be a landslide Yes.. ;-)
  • Angels_babyAngels_baby Posts: 1,471
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    Salmond doesnt seem to have made any statements or apologise for the actions of his people in Dundee etc. This is why I think that these mobs are controlled and organised by people at the very top within the SNP. Salmond is not breaking through in the polls and is trying anything to win.

    Has it been proved it was an SNP supporter? Could it have been a disenfranchised Labour Supporter? Or just somebody with a personal grudge against Jim Murphy? The person has not been charged or has his name been made available to the general public.

    The action of throwing an egg at Jim Murphy is inexcusable but please until the person who threw that egg is named and his allegiances establish do not make assumptions. Thank you.
  • mRebelmRebel Posts: 24,882
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    Brawlad wrote: »
    Did you miss the bit where it was stated that the negotiating team would be drawn from all aspects of Scottish life. Hell Salmond all but invited darling onto the team

    You mean SNP policy, like currency union for example, will only be demanded of Westminster if the negotiating team from "all aspects of Scottish life" agree that it should be?

    Get real. If yes wins SNP policy will be the Scottish negotiating position.
  • Gary_LandyFanGary_LandyFan Posts: 3,824
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    Brawlad wrote: »
    That is why Scotland should vote yes . so that privatization of the NHS cannot happen in Scotland
    Until the Scottish Government privatise it themselves...

    Which is very likely with the Socialist Utopia that Independence is being sold as...
  • barrcode88barrcode88 Posts: 6,849
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    Tonight's @YouGov #indyref poll pushes our @whatscotsthink poll of polls to an equal record high. Yes 45%, No 55%. http://t.co/FrV7HZ0PnB

    10 point gap for Salmond to overcome, I can't see it now personally with the bullying headlines the Yes'ers have had recently, but voices will be heard no doubt about it.
  • thmsthms Posts: 61,009
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    mRebel wrote: »
    You mean SNP policy, like currency union for example, will only be demanded of Westminster if the negotiating team from "all aspects of Scottish life" agree that it should be?

    Get real. If yes wins SNP policy will be the Scottish negotiating position.

    Do you think the Scottish Unionists will have a better proposal?
  • James2001James2001 Posts: 73,652
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    What are the results of this poll is once we take the "don't knows" into account? Because even in the last Survation poll that has the Yessers jumping up and down- it would still have needed nearly 80% of the "don't know"s to vote Yes for it to be a Yes victory, so even these polls are pointing for a fairly easy- if narrow- victory for the No camp.

    Plus don't forget we're at the point now where a lot of people have already voted by post, so their votes are set in stone already.
  • vauxhall1964vauxhall1964 Posts: 10,356
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    James2001 wrote: »
    What are the results of this poll is once we take the "don't knows" into account? Because even in the last Survation poll that has the Yessers jumping up and down- it would still have needed nearly 80% of the "don't know"s to vote Yes for it to be a Yes victory, so even these polls are pointing for a fairly easy- if narrow- victory for the No camp.

    The YouGov poll shows Lab/LibDem 'don't knows' (ie the majority of 'don't knows') now breaking 2:1 in favour of YES. So if the 10% undecided in this poll follow that pattern that would give YES the 6% it needs to win.
  • barrcode88barrcode88 Posts: 6,849
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    James2001 wrote: »
    What are the results of this poll is once we take the "don't knows" into account? Because even in the last Survation poll that has the Yessers jumping up and down- it would still have needed nearly 80% of the "don't know"s to vote Yes for it to be a Yes victory, so even these polls are pointing for a fairly easy- if narrow- victory for the No camp.

    Plus don't forget we're at the point now where a lot of people have already voted by post, so their votes are set in stone already- that's something that will certainly have an impact with No still leading in the polls.

    Don't let facts get in the way of a good story now. ;-)
  • AbewestAbewest Posts: 3,017
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    geemonkee wrote: »
    Good piece - highlights the divisive ill-feelings that the No campaign are trying to fuel.

    I know it's shocking, isn't it? Racially abusing an English man, threatening violence against him, wrecking their opponents stalls, shouting offensive slurs like quisling, paedophile, terrorist, etc, turning up with loudhailers to drown out the voices of their opponents, going right up to the faces of members of the public who dare to ask questions and photographing them and then putting it up on facebook pages... how much more divisive ill feelings are they going to fuel?

    Oh no wait, that's not the No campaign, is it? But nevertheless, care to comment on it?
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