Brit Pop was crap.

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  • mushymanrobmushymanrob Posts: 17,992
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    . As for the Spice Girls being 'heavily Britpop derived'.... your dissertation has just a big red line through it


    i dunno...

    they were a quintesencially british girl pop act, and geris union jack dress was a stroke of genius. whilst the spicies werent britpop derived, they certainly benefitted from 'cool brittania' and ran alongside it. as i see it, they were part of the package, if you werent too precious about the term britpop.

    ... so, a guy from bify called britpop crap?... :D ironic non?
  • maninthequeuemaninthequeue Posts: 2,479
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    i dunno...

    they were a quintesencially british girl pop act, and geris union jack dress was a stroke of genius. whilst the spicies werent britpop derived, they certainly benefitted from 'cool brittania' and ran alongside it. as i see it, they were part of the package, if you werent too precious about the term britpop.

    ... so, a guy from bify called britpop crap?... :D ironic non?

    Definitely. To me Britpop and Cool Britannia are the same thing.

    So for me it also represents fashion designers Alexander McQueen, Damien Hirst & Stella McCartney. Writers like Irvine Welsh & Alex Garland; Film Directors like Danny Boyle & Alison Owen; Actors like Robert Carlyle; Ewan MacGregor; Rachel Weisz; Christopher Eccleston; Ewen Bremner; Jonny Lee Miller; Anna Friel ... and the resurgence of patriotism via iconic imagery such as Noel Gallagher's Union Flag guitar and Geri Halliwell's skimpy Union Jack dress, worn at the 1997 Brit Awards. The Euro 96 football tournament; Chris Evans (Radio 1 Breakfast Show/TFI Friday); etc as well as the resurgence of distinctive British rock and pop music from bands such as Blur, Suede, Oasis, Radiohead, Supergrass, Pulp, The Verve and Elastica, as well as the Spice Girls & All Saints. Which also led to a revival in British pride not least hanks to the early days of Tony Blair's Labour Government which worked well until he was led astray (like Lance Armstrong in a pharmaceutical company) by the appalling US administration of President George W Bush and his Whoppers of Mass Deception to get involved in a war we should have stayed out of.

    Not forgetting Mel C hooked up with Blur's Damon Albarn in April 1999 after the MTV Europe Awards. Whilst the Blur frontman also had a relationship in 2000-1 with All Saints Shaznay Lewis ("Out Of Time" was written about the demise of that relationship); and off course the girlgroup All Saints were the ultimate Britpop relationship band as Melanie Blatt has had a long term relationship with the bassist of Jamiroquai; Natalie Appleton is married with children to Liam Howlett of The Prodigy; and her younger sister Nicole Appleton is married with children to Liam Gallagher of Beady Eye, formerly of Oasis. Nicole Appleton had previously been in a 1997-9 relationship with Robbie Williams .... whom in 2000 dated Geri Halliwell for which his #1 song "Eternity" is written about.

    In short if the lead singer of Biffy Clyro thinks Britpop was crap, and prefers the awful imported Generation X; slacker, Grunge; Emo movements then he is an even bigger (insert rude word of choice) than the uninspired music his band makes.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 675
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    I love britpop, personally. James, Verve, Oasis. Can't beat a bit of britpop. Sure that type of music became a bit generic towards the latter end of the 90's, but when it was good, it was some of the best music ever made.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 1,163
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    Daman Albarn also hooked up with the frontwoman of Elastica.

    The problem I have with the names that mentioned above is that, besides Danny Boyle and Damian Hirst, they all started with big attitude and success but without substance.
  • CoenCoen Posts: 5,711
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    Definitely. To me Britpop and Cool Britannia are the same thing.

    So for me it also represents fashion designers Alexander McQueen, Damien Hirst & Stella McCartney. Writers like Irvine Welsh & Alex Garland; Film Directors like Danny Boyle & Alison Owen; Actors like Robert Carlyle; Ewan MacGregor; Rachel Weisz; Christopher Eccleston; Ewen Bremner; Jonny Lee Miller; Anna Friel ... and the resurgence of patriotism via iconic imagery such as Noel Gallagher's Union Flag guitar and Geri Halliwell's skimpy Union Jack dress, worn at the 1997 Brit Awards. The Euro 96 football tournament; Chris Evans (Radio 1 Breakfast Show/TFI Friday); etc as well as the resurgence of distinctive British rock and pop music from bands such as Blur, Suede, Oasis, Radiohead, Supergrass, Pulp, The Verve and Elastica, as well as the Spice Girls & All Saints. Which also led to a revival in British pride not least hanks to the early days of Tony Blair's Labour Government which worked well until he was led astray (like Lance Armstrong in a pharmaceutical company) by the appalling US administration of President George W Bush and his Whoppers of Mass Deception to get involved in a war we should have stayed out of.

    Not forgetting Mel C hooked up with Blur's Damon Albarn in April 1999 after the MTV Europe Awards. Whilst the Blur frontman also had a relationship in 2000-1 with All Saints Shaznay Lewis ("Out Of Time" was written about the demise of that relationship); and off course the girlgroup All Saints were the ultimate Britpop relationship band as Melanie Blatt has had a long term relationship with the bassist of Jamiroquai; Natalie Appleton is married with children to Liam Howlett of The Prodigy; and her younger sister Nicole Appleton is married with children to Liam Gallagher of Beady Eye, formerly of Oasis. Nicole Appleton had previously been in a 1997-9 relationship with Robbie Williams .... whom in 2000 dated Geri Halliwell for which his #1 song "Eternity" is written about.

    In short if the lead singer of Biffy Clyro thinks Britpop was crap, and prefers the awful imported Generation X; slacker, Grunge; Emo movements then he is an even bigger (insert rude word of choice) than the uninspired music his band makes.

    A lot of what you've described is just the UK in the 90s in general, rather than being related to "Britpop" - e.g stuff like Trainspotting was as much about the underground dance music of the time (Underworld, Leftfield etc).

    Sure, if the definition of "Britpop" is so wide that it includes pretty much everything that happened in the UK in the 90s then it's harder to justifying saying that "Britpop" was crap, but that's not what this Biffy Clyro bloke was saying. He was specifically talking about British rock/guitar music of the 90s.

    (And I also don't particularly like Biffy Clyro, but that's doesnt mean I can't agree with what their singer says about 90s music.)
  • EmmersonneEmmersonne Posts: 4,532
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    Brit Pop was and still is amazing!

    Well, I was born in the 80s and spent my "yoof" listening to Blur, Pulp and Oasis, shunning Take That and the american pop alternatives.

    Still love them to bits, and living in denial that it probably sounds to the iPod generation like what my Dad's music sounded to me. :D:D
  • mushymanrobmushymanrob Posts: 17,992
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    Coen wrote: »
    A lot of what you've described is just the UK in the 90s in general, rather than being related to "Britpop" - e.g stuff like Trainspotting was as much about the underground dance music of the time (Underworld, Leftfield etc).

    Sure, if the definition of "Britpop" is so wide that it includes pretty much everything that happened in the UK in the 90s then it's harder to justifying saying that "Britpop" was crap, but that's not what this Biffy Clyro bloke was saying. He was specifically talking about British rock/guitar music of the 90s.

    (And I also don't particularly like Biffy Clyro, but that's doesnt mean I can't agree with what their singer says about 90s music.)

    but the point both he and i were making is that britpop and cool britannia were both part of the same thing, so whilst the spicies werent britpop, they were part of the larger cool britannia scene. it was in reply to the other poster who included the spicies in britpop.

    ok he was refering to the specific music made by guitar bands, which makes him look a right stupid dick! :D
  • CoenCoen Posts: 5,711
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    but the point both he and i were making is that britpop and cool britannia were both part of the same thing, so whilst the spicies werent britpop, they were part of the larger cool britannia scene. it was in reply to the other poster who included the spicies in britpop.

    ok he was refering to the specific music made by guitar bands, which makes him look a right stupid dick! :D

    You're saying that Britpop was part of the larger cool britannia thing, which I agree with. But what the other poster was saying was that Britpop and cool britannia were the same thing, which I don't agree with.

    There was a lot of other music besides Britpop music which influenced the larger culture of the time - Britpop music probably represented the more mainstream pop element, but other British music scenes such as dance/techno/trip-hop were also key influences in the larger cool britannia thing - and they weren't "Britpop".

    So to me "Britpop" still refers to a very specific music sound of the time, it doesnt refer to the entirity of British 90s culture.
  • maninthequeuemaninthequeue Posts: 2,479
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    Coen wrote: »
    You're saying that Britpop was part of the larger cool britannia thing, which I agree with. But what the other poster was saying was that Britpop and cool britannia were the same thing, which I don't agree with.

    There was a lot of other music besides Britpop music which influenced the larger culture of the time - Britpop music probably represented the more mainstream pop element, but other British music scenes such as dance/techno/trip-hop were also key influences in the larger cool britannia thing - and they weren't "Britpop".

    So to me "Britpop" still refers to a very specific music sound of the time, it doesnt refer to the entirity of British 90s culture.

    To me Britpop & Cool Brittania are the same thing (just a different moniker for it) as Grunge & Generation X are.

    As Grunge/Generation X represented the themes such as social alienation, apathy, confinement, and a disenchantment with the state of society, as well as a dislike with social prejudices/the system.

    I.E. They are both subcultures (movements), indelibly linked to a specific period of time, and a specific area of the world, for which the music is just one strand of that subculture, along with film, fashion, literature & art.
  • CoenCoen Posts: 5,711
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    To me Britpop & Cool Brittania are the same thing (just a different moniker for it) as Grunge & Generation X are.

    As Grunge/Generation X represented the themes such as social alienation, apathy, confinement, and a disenchantment with the state of society, as well as a dislike with social prejudices/the system.

    I.E. They are both subcultures (movements), indelibly linked to a specific period of time, and a specific area of the world, for which the music is just one strand of that subculture, along with film, fashion, literature & art.

    And that's what I don't agree with - for me Britpop specifically refers to some of the music which was around at the time.

    It was a key element of the wider Cool Britannia movement but it was only one element, other things influenced Cool Britannia as well (including to some extent some other music genres as seen in films like Trainspotting) so I don't think it's really the case that Britpop and Cool Britannia are different names for the same thing.
  • robo2robo2 Posts: 1,470
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    To me Britpop & Cool Brittania are the same thing (just a different moniker for it) as Grunge & Generation X are.

    As Grunge/Generation X represented the themes such as social alienation, apathy, confinement, and a disenchantment with the state of society, as well as a dislike with social prejudices/the system.

    I.E. They are both subcultures (movements), indelibly linked to a specific period of time, and a specific area of the world, for which the music is just one strand of that subculture, along with film, fashion, literature & art.

    cool brittania involved bands like massiva attack, portishead and tricky as well as art, films etc, britpop was just a part of it. its the same as the whole generation x stuff, which refers to people born in the 60's to the 80's, the generation after the baby boomers so grunge was years after the start of genration x and was just a part of it
  • Ollie_h19Ollie_h19 Posts: 8,548
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    I agree that Britpop refers to the guitar-led British bands such as Oasis, Blur and Pulp that dominated at the time. This was part of 'Cool Britannia' (hate that phrase) that also included Euro 96, New Labour/Tony Blair and The Spice Girls.
  • Simon RodgersSimon Rodgers Posts: 4,693
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    Yes, Britpop was shit.

    Also, Biffy Clyro are shit.

    Nice symmetry there, don't you think?

    A bit strong isn't it? I know Brit-pop wasn't everyone's cup of tea but even so...........
  • Miss XYZMiss XYZ Posts: 14,023
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    Mick27 wrote: »
    I love britpop, personally. James, Verve, Oasis. Can't beat a bit of britpop. Sure that type of music became a bit generic towards the latter end of the 90's, but when it was good, it was some of the best music ever made.


    I agree.
  • Madonna38Madonna38 Posts: 2,078
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    mr muggles wrote: »
    I lived in London during the 'Brit-pop' era, but saw it as a London vanity project by local media. As for 'grunge', it was just another 'look'!

    IMO Throwing Muses/Pixies/Belly were far more interesting.
    When cobain died all my work colleagues went into meltdown that evening, whereas I was miffed by it.

    To me Courtney Love was the far more interesting one in that relationship.
    Saw her at Shepherds Bush on the Live Thru This Tour and she was effing amazing with genuine presence and for a couple of years, she rocked. Now.... What happened?!

    As for Blur vrs Oasis, neither! Pulp, thankyou very much!

    YES! I've always preferred Courtney. I was too young in the 90s really to get into her then but I "discovered" her a few years back. I like her newer stuff too though. Saw her live in 2010 and was amazed. I wish I could have proper experienced her in the 90s.

    EDIT. I love brit pop too though. Not to everyones taste but that's the beauty of music. There's something for everyone. :D
  • SemieroticSemierotic Posts: 11,131
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    k0213818 wrote: »
    I've just written 6,000 words on Britpop for my dissertation ironically enough.

    Coincidence =/= irony.
  • mushymanrobmushymanrob Posts: 17,992
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    Coen wrote: »
    And that's what I don't agree with - for me Britpop specifically refers to some of the music which was around at the time.

    It was a key element of the wider Cool Britannia movement but it was only one element, other things influenced Cool Britannia as well (including to some extent some other music genres as seen in films like Trainspotting) so I don't think it's really the case that Britpop and Cool Britannia are different names for the same thing.

    indeed, but this came about when a poster said the spice girls were britpop. they werent, they were cool britannia...
  • vauxhall1964vauxhall1964 Posts: 10,336
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    Mick27 wrote: »
    I love britpop, personally. James, Verve, Oasis. .

    except James weren't Britpop.... Madchester yes, Britpop no.
  • Sam SolitudeSam Solitude Posts: 341
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    The Britpop era produced far better tunes than the ten-a-penny pop rubbish churned out by the coffee coloured female artists that clog up the thread topics on the Music forum here ! :rolleyes:
  • Ollie_h19Ollie_h19 Posts: 8,548
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    except James weren't Britpop.... Madchester yes, Britpop no.

    I'd count James as Britpop, although they preceded it. The Happy Mondays are Madchester, nothing like James.

    I'd class 'She's a Star' and 'Destiny Calling' as Britpop classics
  • mattlambmattlamb Posts: 4,471
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    I don;t consider Manics as being Britpop either.

    They were well-known before Britpop movement began and their lyrics were often quite pessimistic
  • Ollie_h19Ollie_h19 Posts: 8,548
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    Blur also pre-dated Britpop by many years, 'There's No Other Way' was 1989 I think and had a 'baggy' feel to it. They went on to be one of the biggest Britpop bands.
  • SamMcKSamMcK Posts: 986
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    Britpop was good but a shadow of the music made by Brits from 1963-1985.
  • sarahcssarahcs Posts: 8,734
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    It was thanks to early Blur that I discovered the Kinks. So it worked for me. :)
  • CapablancaCapablanca Posts: 5,130
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    I'm of the Britpop generation (same age as Dan Abnormal;)).

    I've never heard of Biffy Ray Cyrus - but I have been to a Menswear gig! :eek: :p
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