This is difficult for me, and I'll tell you why (bit of a story here).
I was born in England, lived there till I was 14 to Irish parents.
I moved to Northern Ireland when I was 14, still speak with an English accent which shocks a lot of people considering I've lived here for over 12 years now.
When I was England, I was brought up the typical plastic paddy, supported Ireland at everything, wore all the Ireland tops etc.
When I was in school, particularly in secondary school, I recieved a lot of bullying and name calling for my ethnicity, teachers speaking to me in false Irish accents asking me where are my families caravans are parked etc, " "F off you Irish bastard" "Irish scum go home" "No surrender to IRA" etc all that shite. Some of it was just banter but some of it was deliberately nasty to make me feel an outsider.
So I've never felt English obviously, mainly because I wasn't allowed to be, never had a chance. Interestingly then of course I move to NI where now I'm not all of a sudden Irish bastard, but because of my accent I was now getting called an English bastard!
Northern Ireland is a complicated national identity within itself as you may now. "Are you catholic or protestant?" With my English accent, most people seem to think I'm a protestant or a unionist because of my accent, even though my parents are Irish catholic. Confusing? Yes me too.
I'm often seen as a foreigner in Ireland, a blow in or an outsider because of my accent, I can understand that, my ethnicity doesn't matter obviously.
But in England my childhood memories dictate that I am also a foreigner, so in a sense I am a foreigner in both countries.
I don't consider myself English or British, wasn't into the olympics or ever supported England. I don't consider myself Irish, but do recognise that this place is now home.
I have a lot of respect for the likes of Mo Farah, Ennis etc who consider themeselves British, because its something I couldn't have done.
Someone said you can't be English unless you are anglo saxon? I would say my English childhood would say to me thats how it is seen.
I suppose for legal proposes I'm British or English whatever you prefer to say but I don't think of myself as either I just happened to have been born here
They're a race and a nationality with a distinct culture.
The attempts by certain forces to denounce the people of the British isles as a unique entity, with its own culture is pathetic. It is mostly spouted by people who are against racism yet in their crusade for equality they're lambasting and denigrating an entire nation and brow beating them into submission and wont be satisfied until they keel over and submit to their idea that they are nothing but mongrels with nothing worth protecting and that centuries of invasion, war, conquest and immigration have removed their right to identify themselves yet practically every culture on the planet has suffered the same fate.
Not in my experience. I have only come across one person who thought Edinburgh was in England.
Normally I hear "The British are fat", "The British are drunks", "The British are unhealthy".
From whom? And in what language?
I've never ever heard a French person referring to anyone as British.... I don't even know the French word for British, having never heard it there.
I've been there many many times, and it's always "Ah Angleterre, vous etes Anglais?".
Leaving aside that there seems to be some kind of covert plan between thel British Govt and the EU for this small land to be seen as non but a vast mixing pot to absorb the surplus populations of Europe and other parts of the world - a byproduct being that
England and the English will become just a memory - or at best a minority -
Leaving all that aside would it be foolish to suggest that in this crowded land with its creaking groaning infrastructure - crowded roads - pubic transport - hospitals and education etc ...
- Is their anyone in this Govt remotely aware there is a world overpopulation problem - and what the UK is not
short on - is people !
Must say, I don't really get why people often seem to conflate ethnicity with nationality.
"Yeah, I was born in Manchester and have lived there all my life but I really consider myself Jamaican" etc.
Consider yourself to be a jam donut from the zog dimension if you wish but the fact remains that, like it or not, you ARE British.
I also find it rather irritating when people make a fuss about proclaiming themselves to be English or Welsh or whatever, rather than "British".
I have a bit more sympathy for yanks in that regard, given that their nation IS comprised of a bunch of independant states which united (the clue is in the name) to become a nation.
A person's sense of identity is far more than just what it says on their passport. Mine might say British but I feel no affiliation with British tradition, and feel far closer to Scottish traditions and cultural norms.
If being British is simply your legal nationality owing to the country you were born in, then there really isn't anything special about it at all, nothing to be proud of.
Why? they're distinct nationalties. Being British is as meaningful as European.
Why?
Cos the UK is a nation, which is what an inhabitant should feel part of.
By all means, think of yourself as English or Welsh or Scottish as well but it seems rather silly to deny your actual nationality.
Also, your comparison between the UK and Europe is completely wrong.
Cos the UK is a nation, which is what an inhabitant should feel part of.
By all means, think of yourself as English or Welsh or Scottish as well but it seems rather silly to deny your actual nationality.
Umm what? British isn't a nationality, Britain is a union of countries with seperate nationalities.
English = people born in England
British = non existant really, only a name given to people which in real life is meaningless to everyone. Scottish people are Scottish, Welsh people are Welsh and English people are English. British is as meaningless a term as European, again Scottish people are Scottish yes European but European is a meaningless word aswell.
Born in India. Lived here 75% of my life, rest in India. 50 years old now. Identify with the term British more than English. Although lived in England for majority of time. But also feel very Indian (as would any expat Brit in Australia for eg).
For many, Britain and British are legal and political statuses rather than anything to do with ethnicity or nationality. For many Scottish Nationalists, they would choose to identify with being Scottish rather than British. However many third+ generation of immigrants would identify more with being British than English/Scottish/Welsh etc.
Cannot see why its an issue for anyone other than the individuals themselves.
And what does it say on a Germans passport, or an Italians?
The UK is most certainly NOT "a union of countries, just like the european union".
So your entire sense of nationality is based solely on the words on your passport? Seems a terribly narrow way to define nationality. Also makes nationality a fairly worthless thing, denoting only the country you happened to be born in.
I see you're now not even bothering to respond to what I've actually written in your replies.
Best of luck with that.
Well i dont know what it say's on italian or german passports but on a british passport all it says is british citizen and makes no reference to your nationality and just because of its absence doesn't make you scottish, english, welsh or irish.
Good luck with that.
Like i said, being "british" is as meaningful as being european.
Comments
Generally I say I'm an American, from Missouri. It really depends on who I'm talking to.
I generally don't think they care that we "claim" the term Americans. They call us Americans anyway.
Puerto Ricans also are American citizens.
I was born in England, lived there till I was 14 to Irish parents.
I moved to Northern Ireland when I was 14, still speak with an English accent which shocks a lot of people considering I've lived here for over 12 years now.
When I was England, I was brought up the typical plastic paddy, supported Ireland at everything, wore all the Ireland tops etc.
When I was in school, particularly in secondary school, I recieved a lot of bullying and name calling for my ethnicity, teachers speaking to me in false Irish accents asking me where are my families caravans are parked etc, " "F off you Irish bastard" "Irish scum go home" "No surrender to IRA" etc all that shite. Some of it was just banter but some of it was deliberately nasty to make me feel an outsider.
So I've never felt English obviously, mainly because I wasn't allowed to be, never had a chance. Interestingly then of course I move to NI where now I'm not all of a sudden Irish bastard, but because of my accent I was now getting called an English bastard!
Northern Ireland is a complicated national identity within itself as you may now. "Are you catholic or protestant?" With my English accent, most people seem to think I'm a protestant or a unionist because of my accent, even though my parents are Irish catholic. Confusing? Yes me too.
I'm often seen as a foreigner in Ireland, a blow in or an outsider because of my accent, I can understand that, my ethnicity doesn't matter obviously.
But in England my childhood memories dictate that I am also a foreigner, so in a sense I am a foreigner in both countries.
I don't consider myself English or British, wasn't into the olympics or ever supported England. I don't consider myself Irish, but do recognise that this place is now home.
I have a lot of respect for the likes of Mo Farah, Ennis etc who consider themeselves British, because its something I couldn't have done.
Someone said you can't be English unless you are anglo saxon? I would say my English childhood would say to me thats how it is seen.
The attempts by certain forces to denounce the people of the British isles as a unique entity, with its own culture is pathetic. It is mostly spouted by people who are against racism yet in their crusade for equality they're lambasting and denigrating an entire nation and brow beating them into submission and wont be satisfied until they keel over and submit to their idea that they are nothing but mongrels with nothing worth protecting and that centuries of invasion, war, conquest and immigration have removed their right to identify themselves yet practically every culture on the planet has suffered the same fate.
From whom? And in what language?
I've never ever heard a French person referring to anyone as British.... I don't even know the French word for British, having never heard it there.
I've been there many many times, and it's always "Ah Angleterre, vous etes Anglais?".
Same in Germany, where I actually lived.
England and the English will become just a memory - or at best a minority -
Leaving all that aside would it be foolish to suggest that in this crowded land with its creaking groaning infrastructure - crowded roads - pubic transport - hospitals and education etc ...
- Is their anyone in this Govt remotely aware there is a world overpopulation problem - and what the UK is not
short on - is people !
I don't consider these things to make be superior to any other group, nor do I consider these things to make me inferior to any other group.
I am just me, and I'm comfortable with who I am and where I come from.
"Yeah, I was born in Manchester and have lived there all my life but I really consider myself Jamaican" etc.
Consider yourself to be a jam donut from the zog dimension if you wish but the fact remains that, like it or not, you ARE British.
I also find it rather irritating when people make a fuss about proclaiming themselves to be English or Welsh or whatever, rather than "British".
I have a bit more sympathy for yanks in that regard, given that their nation IS comprised of a bunch of independant states which united (the clue is in the name) to become a nation.
If being British is simply your legal nationality owing to the country you were born in, then there really isn't anything special about it at all, nothing to be proud of.
Why? they're distinct nationalties. Being British is as meaningful as European.
All the British tag does is give immigrants a false sense of belonging.
Why?
Cos the UK is a nation, which is what an inhabitant should feel part of.
By all means, think of yourself as English or Welsh or Scottish as well but it seems rather silly to deny your actual nationality.
Also, your comparison between the UK and Europe is completely wrong.
Umm what? British isn't a nationality, Britain is a union of countries with seperate nationalities.
No it isn't.
Nonsense.
If you're attempting to suggest that "Europe" is a common group in the same way that the UK is then that's just flat-out wrong.
The UK is the nation which you are (I assume) a part of. Beats me why anybody would deliberately try to deny that.
You're the one talking nonsense.
You said British was your actual nationality, it isn't. Britain is a union of countries, just like the european union.
Born in India. Lived here 75% of my life, rest in India. 50 years old now. Identify with the term British more than English. Although lived in England for majority of time. But also feel very Indian (as would any expat Brit in Australia for eg).
Cannot see why its an issue for anyone other than the individuals themselves.
And what does it say on your passport?
And what does it say on a Germans passport, or an Italians?
The UK is most certainly NOT "a union of countries, just like the european union".
Yes it is, there is a HUGE difference between a british citizen and an english,scottish, welsh or irish person. Anyone can be British.
I see you're now not even bothering to respond to what I've actually written in your replies.
Best of luck with that.
So your entire sense of nationality is based solely on the words on your passport? Seems a terribly narrow way to define nationality. Also makes nationality a fairly worthless thing, denoting only the country you happened to be born in.
Well i dont know what it say's on italian or german passports but on a british passport all it says is british citizen and makes no reference to your nationality and just because of its absence doesn't make you scottish, english, welsh or irish.
Good luck with that.
Like i said, being "british" is as meaningful as being european.