Same Sex Ballroom Dancing
white tigress
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Anyone have any opinions on this coming into OUR 'Strictly'?? They apparently are cool with this in series Abroad and with great results, performance-wise. Maybe the taller male pro's and the shorter females would benefit from such pairings. From what I've seen good dancers are good dancers/good teachers are good teachers/and in a less 'technical' competition like 'Strictly', it could produce exciting, interesting, and fun fun fun results! The Journey is what counts, plus flamboyance & performance values work well on TV. Bring it ON please!! What's the general view here??
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There have never been any written rules actually banning same sex-couples from open competitions, mainly because it never happened. But in recent years same-sex couples have been entering, which started rulings being considered.
Medallist competitions usually include all-girl and all-ladies events, for the simple reason there have always been loads more girls & ladies than men dancing at that level.
On the social scene it's a different matter. All-lady couples have always been acceptable, but I have actually 2 guys dancing together asked to leave a social dance because "1 person found the idea offensive!" To me, that is wrong; it's discrimination, but an indication of how feelings still are in UK, and I don't think the beeb will risk upsetting their audience on the issue.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJZqk2eObFk
Article can be found here:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-28260949
Some of these arguments would be relevant to Strictly (as I say I don't agree with them) as well as the arguments around "novelty" advantage and the "prejudice" disadvantage.
Aesthetics do come into it. Generally I like to see a contrast between the leader and follower in appearance, and so mode of dress is probably more of an issue for me rather than any problem with the concept of same sex dancing itself. I quite like to see the lady's back in ballroom and her legs in latin (although latin dresses are longer nowadays) and there is the impact of high heels on the dancing, particularly in latin.
There was another discussion this morning on BBC featuring John & Alex's dancing again, and their experiences.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b04b9r2j/sunday-morning-live-series-5-episode-4
Andrew Pierce is very funny about Strictly, and I tend to agree with him, it's already a very gay friendly show, but if they did introduce a same sex couple to compete then I would hope they'd give either Ian or Matt a call, and not turn it into an Anton comedy situation with Biggins.
17 years ago when I first saw a full length Ballet featuring mostly male dancers, the famous Bourne Swan Lake, that worked astonishingly well because of the high quality of production it was. Great Theatre, Choreography, Story Telling and Dancing. The White Swan and the tormented Prince's Pas De Deux by the Lake was one of the most beautiful things I've ever seen, and the Final Act was truly emotional.
Aside from any rights that minority groups may possess regarding equal representation, would same sex dancing not be better trialled as a show in its own right rather than trying to piggy back on someone else's success? Then it can be judged on its own merit and audience reaction fairly measured.
After the novelty of the first couple of shows I predict the viewing figures would be somewhere south of a million, unless there were a bevy of beauties shimmying together down the dancefloor to get the male population interested.
If it really is likely to be popular and capable of standing on its own feet then I am surprised a commercial station hasn't tried it since they live and die by ratings and advertising revenues
It was suggested during one interview that mixed couples are not prevented from taking part in the Same-Sex competitions. This is not necessarily true as the events are invariably for "All-Men" or "All-Lady" events, so a man-woman couple would not qualify.
However, I do know for sure that mixed couples are always made welcome at same-sex social dances, while the opposite is not always true (which is wrong) though same-sex couples are usually made welcome at competitors' practice sessions, where the dancing is of a serious nature.
To be honest, I think this is one great big storm on a very little tea-cup. On the whole there are relatively few same-sex couples wanting to compete in mixed-couple competitions, and amongst those are some who just like to rock the boats. I'm almost certain nothing would have been mentioned in the media if it wasn't for Strictly.
LOL. Yes, I think that is true!
It would require "a deliberate pairing."
Although it does happen each year, it doesn't appear obvious to most of the public.
They won't mess with their best rated show.
For that reason, its going to require a shift away from what the dance is supposed to look like.
The way the show has gone, there is less and less attention paid to dancing the dance as it is supposed to be, so having a same sex couple dancing would not be a big leap in that respect.
My guess would be that it would be difficult to have a same sex couple or couples on the show successfully (in terms of the viewers liking it) two years in a row because you have the novelty factor the first year. Have any other SCD's abroad had same sex couples in more than one series?
In the same sex competitions, is there a different look and style to the dances?
The way the competitions are run is different to how mixed-couples comps are run, in that they progress 'up the ladder' differently, and in the events at the top of the ladder it is possible to see professional and amateur dancers dancing against each other, which would never happen in mixed-couples events.
But otherwise the style and technique is very authentic and I have to say some of the dancing is brilliant. Watching 2 guys dance a Viennese Waltz; Guy A leading, guy B following - then you look again and they have changed places, but who saw them switch? It's very clever.
While admiring their technique there are still a lot of people who don't like the look of 2 men dancing together; in much the same way as, never mind how socially acceptable it is, 2 ladies do not look right dancing together. As you quite rightly say the dances have been devised for a male-female partnership, & this is a view shared by a lot of gay dancers, who prefer to dance in mixed-couple comps.
Having said that, I fully endorse the right of same-sex couples to dance together, but some things cannot be mixed. Imagine if a same-sex tennis couple wanted to take part in the mixed-doubles at Wimbledon. They would be told they had to go in the all-men doubles or all-ladies doubles ....... the same applies to dance competitions.
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Thanks for that info kaycee.
I think it works quite well for gay dancers to dance in mixed partnerships - eg. Aliona and Matthew were one of my favourite pairings ever and produced some dances I have very fond memories of. Good chemistry between them too.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YM2uPeHiCCg
I agree. If I was famous enough to do strictly I would want a female partner. It's about the whole overall costume and opposite roles of me.
I always enjoy your posts, kaycee, but I'm not sure this is a valid comparison - especially if, as Spin turn says, the issue of extra power in male same-sex couples isn't really as a big a deal as the BDC are trying to make out. The difference between male and female tennis players is all about their respective levels of power. Even the biggest hitters in the women's game can't cope with the levels of power generated by men - Serena Williams, the biggest of all female hitters, has explicitly said she can't stand up to the power generated by the men.
So physical power would be an obvious reason to ban(at least male) same-sex couples from the mixed doubles - but it's not obviously true that the same holds for ballroom dancing. I think the BDC has shot itself in the foot by trying to claim that it is. Personally, I think the argument that others have raised regarding the style of the dance is the best reason to segregate in formal competition - not that same-sex dancing invalidates classical style, but that it invariably leads to variations which mixed-sex couples can't achieve and therefore makes comparison difficult.
On Strictly I don't know that customising a dance to suit a same-sex couple would be any different to, say, adding stylistic elements to mask the limitations of a wildly overweight celebrity. I'd be all for seeing it as a bit of a novelty in every series, but it'd depend on the willingness of the pro dancers more than anything.
Hey but in dancing the male and female are playing roles - they are not usually in a sexual or even romantic relationship. And there have been a number of gay males participating. I am not sure if any of the females - pros or celebs - have been lesbians.
But a lesbian dancing with a gay or straight male has (in general) the same sexual / romantic relationship as any other female would.
Dancing isn't a question of sexual or romantic orientation as we are well aware from the gays that have performed.
Whether a dancer is straight or gay is of no consequence; the description is male-female. there are a lot of gay male Latin dancers partnered by straight females; less gay ballroom guys, but there are some, again with straight female dance partners. There are also a fair few Lesbians dancing with straight guys - in fact a couple of the most feminine beautiful lady dancers are lesbian - so never try and work out who is who!!!
You are right that it isn't a question of sexual or romantic orientation - it all about acting the role, just like actors have to do on stage etc..