As you say, BT's preferred route for broadcasting these channels is streaming these channels - however, there are still a lot of BT Vision customers who aren't in an Infinity area so surely BT will need to get their sports channel on freeview (channel 34) to ensure their non Infinity customers can still receive the BT sports channel. Otherwise you'd have a crazy situation where all sky customers could get BT Sports but only some BT Vision customers could get it. That could potentialy drive customers to Sky so that they could get BT Sports!
Obviously in the longer term (18mths?) when Infinity has much wider coverage I can see, BT removing the channels from DTT.
Yeah sorry for not making that clearer in my post... I agree entirely with that. That's what I was hinting at when I said "once they've got everybody switched over / able to continue their service via Infinity".
Once they've achieved a level of availability that they're happy with, they should just take the plunge and be done with DTT transmission. The overall aim of this exercise is to shift triple play deals so by removing the DTT availability it at least forces peoples hand.
Whilst BT Sport couldn't survive without Sky's 10m subscribers having access, Virgin isn't quite as important. It could be a useful tool in attracting customers away from Virgin (although they could go to Sky.)
Yep. It was one of those scenarios that was discussed on here last year that the company who should really be worried isn't Sky... but is in fact Virgin Media.
The other one I'm intrigued over is whether it's going to be made available to TalkTalk customers.
Yep. It was one of those scenarios that was discussed on here last year that the company who should really be worried isn't Sky... but is in fact Virgin Media.
The other one I'm intrigued over is whether it's going to be made available to TalkTalk customers.
I'm quite intrigued too. There's quite a few factors to consider including legacy contracts with the platforms and the need to retain viewer numbers for the sake of sponsors and advertisers.
As I understand it, ESPN has 2m indirect subscribers including those via Virgin's XL package. Does anyone know the platform split? That will have a bearing on BT's decisions.
If you were starting from scratch, I doubt you would want the channels on TalkTalk as the two YouView services are very similar and easier for people to swap across from or at least threaten to.
By not making the channels available to Virgin customers, I think such people would be more likely to jump to Sky as they will have been annoyed by BT and they know that by joining the leading platform they won't be messed around in the future...which could happen again if they moved to BT and Sky played hardball. That's assuming that BT is able to secure access to all Sky Sports channels.
Yep. It was one of those scenarios that was discussed on here last year that the company who should really be worried isn't Sky... but is in fact Virgin Media.
The other one I'm intrigued over is whether it's going to be made available to TalkTalk customers.
Completely agree with this - BT have realised that the reason Sky are so strong is not because they are platform provider, it's because they are a content provider. I too think they are ultimately gunning for Virgin Media, and they may even use it as a tool to differentiate themselves from Talk Talk.
By not making the channels available to Virgin customers, I think such people would be more likely to jump to Sky as they will have been annoyed by BT and they know that by joining the leading platform they won't be messed around in the future...which could happen again if they moved to BT and Sky played hardball. That's assuming that BT is able to secure access to all Sky Sports channels.
A) Is it worth BT to pursue having there channels on DTT and Top Up? Or would it just put people off getting youview? In my view maybe.
Could Top Up actually survive without the Sports channels? I guess not!
Personally, I don't think they should have them on DTT. That's not to say they won't, it's just my view that they shouldn't.
Reason being that the whole point of their entry into the market and subsequent Premier League rights win was to increase take up of triple play deals. Having their channels available anywhere and everywhere will only damage their plans in the long run.
They've been very sensible in having no hesitation in offering them to Sky customers because they simply can't pass over in excess of 10m potential £ signs.
As for Virgin, it wouldn't surprise me if they didn't offer them there and it would certainly show they've got intent... and the balls to go with it.
As for being available on DTT... maybe initially they will be offered there while they sort out the Infinity rollout but in the long run it would be better to make them BT Vision / YouView only. It's the fundamentals of DTT and they can entice existing users over with a shiny new box etc. It's the way it'll ultimately go anyway IMO so why not just take the jump at the earliest opportunity and effectively force peoples hand?
As for Virgin, it wouldn't surprise me if they didn't offer them there and it would certainly show they've got intent... and the balls to go with it.
Surely since BT used the legal process to force Sky to make Sky Sports available to BT themselves, Virgin could use exactly the same legislature to make BT make their own sports channels available to Virgin.
Surely since BT used the legal process to force Sky to make Sky Sports available to BT themselves, Virgin could use exactly the same legislature to make BT make their own sports channels available to Virgin.
Oh they can offer them. But not at a subsidised price. BT will play hard ball with VM, but they'll play ball with Sky, as they'll be on they're satellite platform (but not actually within the Sky suite themselves).
Surely since BT used the legal process to force Sky to make Sky Sports available to BT themselves, Virgin could use exactly the same legislature to make BT make their own sports channels available to Virgin.
You make a valid point but this is untested ground and has so far only been used against the 'dominant' provider of Premier League football. I'm not sure what the stance on the 'junior' partner would be.
A) Is it worth BT to pursue having there channels on DTT and Top Up? Or would it just put people off getting youview? In my view maybe.
Could Top Up actually survive without the Sports channels? I guess not!
A) In the short term it's worth BT buying TopUp TV and also probably replacing Sky Sports on channels 41 & 42 with BT Sport channels. A curve ball would be it acquiring new DTT capacity.
BT Sport needs as many subscribers in the early months to demonstrate to everyone that it's a success so it will need to tread carefully in its formative months. But its aim will be to convert ex-TopUp customers into triple play customers once its infrastructure is better, say in 18 months' time.
No unless TopUp was thrown a lifeboat by someone else (eg TalkTalk, Sky or Virgin). Of these, only Sky has extra DTT capacity if BT withdrew its, and Sky was prevented from setting up its DTT Picnic service but the market has changed since that ruling.
We know that BT will have at least 2 sports channels, so maybe they'll offer Virgin (and/or Talk Talk) only one channel. Obviously ensuring that a certain amount of premium content is on the second channel occasionally.
That way they still get a bulk of income from Virgin and get to show off their new sports channel to potential new customers, while withholding enough of the good stuff to entice Virgin customers across to BT.
A) In the short term it's worth BT buying TopUp TV and also probably replacing Sky Sports on channels 41 & 42 with BT Sport channels. A curve ball would be it acquiring new DTT capacity.
BT Sport needs as many subscribers in the early months to demonstrate to everyone that it's a success so it will need to tread carefully in its formative months. But its aim will be to convert ex-TopUp customers into triple play customers once its infrastructure is better, say in 18 months' time.
No unless TopUp was thrown a lifeboat by someone else (eg TalkTalk, Sky or Virgin). Of these, only Sky has extra DTT capacity if BT withdrew its, and Sky was prevented from setting up its DTT Picnic service but the market has changed since that ruling.
Just re-reading this thread. Well the above isn't a curve ball now. And it looks like you were right all along, and BT will continue broadcasting over DTT for at least another season. Which would be some relief for TUTV users, if thats true. And despite Sky Sports low subscriber numbers, it is looking that way.
Oh they can offer them. But not at a subsidised price. BT will play hard ball with VM, but they'll play ball with Sky, as they'll be on they're satellite platform (but not actually within the Sky suite themselves).
I thought the same thing as you, how wrong were we? I think BT have showed a lot of balls to stand up to sky and not give in to their demands!
Comments
Yeah sorry for not making that clearer in my post... I agree entirely with that. That's what I was hinting at when I said "once they've got everybody switched over / able to continue their service via Infinity".
Once they've achieved a level of availability that they're happy with, they should just take the plunge and be done with DTT transmission. The overall aim of this exercise is to shift triple play deals so by removing the DTT availability it at least forces peoples hand.
Yep. It was one of those scenarios that was discussed on here last year that the company who should really be worried isn't Sky... but is in fact Virgin Media.
The other one I'm intrigued over is whether it's going to be made available to TalkTalk customers.
As I understand it, ESPN has 2m indirect subscribers including those via Virgin's XL package. Does anyone know the platform split? That will have a bearing on BT's decisions.
If you were starting from scratch, I doubt you would want the channels on TalkTalk as the two YouView services are very similar and easier for people to swap across from or at least threaten to.
By not making the channels available to Virgin customers, I think such people would be more likely to jump to Sky as they will have been annoyed by BT and they know that by joining the leading platform they won't be messed around in the future...which could happen again if they moved to BT and Sky played hardball. That's assuming that BT is able to secure access to all Sky Sports channels.
Completely agree with this - BT have realised that the reason Sky are so strong is not because they are platform provider, it's because they are a content provider. I too think they are ultimately gunning for Virgin Media, and they may even use it as a tool to differentiate themselves from Talk Talk.
Interesting times!!!
A) Is it worth BT to pursue having there channels on DTT and Top Up? Or would it just put people off getting youview? In my view maybe.
Could Top Up actually survive without the Sports channels? I guess not!
Very interesting thoughts as usual!
Personally, I don't think they should have them on DTT. That's not to say they won't, it's just my view that they shouldn't.
Reason being that the whole point of their entry into the market and subsequent Premier League rights win was to increase take up of triple play deals. Having their channels available anywhere and everywhere will only damage their plans in the long run.
They've been very sensible in having no hesitation in offering them to Sky customers because they simply can't pass over in excess of 10m potential £ signs.
As for Virgin, it wouldn't surprise me if they didn't offer them there and it would certainly show they've got intent... and the balls to go with it.
As for being available on DTT... maybe initially they will be offered there while they sort out the Infinity rollout but in the long run it would be better to make them BT Vision / YouView only. It's the fundamentals of DTT and they can entice existing users over with a shiny new box etc. It's the way it'll ultimately go anyway IMO so why not just take the jump at the earliest opportunity and effectively force peoples hand?
Surely since BT used the legal process to force Sky to make Sky Sports available to BT themselves, Virgin could use exactly the same legislature to make BT make their own sports channels available to Virgin.
Oh they can offer them. But not at a subsidised price. BT will play hard ball with VM, but they'll play ball with Sky, as they'll be on they're satellite platform (but not actually within the Sky suite themselves).
You make a valid point but this is untested ground and has so far only been used against the 'dominant' provider of Premier League football. I'm not sure what the stance on the 'junior' partner would be.
A) In the short term it's worth BT buying TopUp TV and also probably replacing Sky Sports on channels 41 & 42 with BT Sport channels. A curve ball would be it acquiring new DTT capacity.
BT Sport needs as many subscribers in the early months to demonstrate to everyone that it's a success so it will need to tread carefully in its formative months. But its aim will be to convert ex-TopUp customers into triple play customers once its infrastructure is better, say in 18 months' time.
No unless TopUp was thrown a lifeboat by someone else (eg TalkTalk, Sky or Virgin). Of these, only Sky has extra DTT capacity if BT withdrew its, and Sky was prevented from setting up its DTT Picnic service but the market has changed since that ruling.
That way they still get a bulk of income from Virgin and get to show off their new sports channel to potential new customers, while withholding enough of the good stuff to entice Virgin customers across to BT.
Just speculation of course!
Just re-reading this thread. Well the above isn't a curve ball now. And it looks like you were right all along, and BT will continue broadcasting over DTT for at least another season. Which would be some relief for TUTV users, if thats true. And despite Sky Sports low subscriber numbers, it is looking that way.
I thought the same thing as you, how wrong were we? I think BT have showed a lot of balls to stand up to sky and not give in to their demands!
Of course there is. Theres sports rights like the CL coming up.
They're a fair ways off: http://m.guardian.co.uk/media/2011/apr/27/itv-sky-sports