Sitting every Saturday night, as I do, I find myself this series more bored than previously... Well I said that but looking back I was also bored in the second half of series 7...
The second half of series 7 was absolutely superb.
This series has been underwhelming for the reasons why series 7 was so good - the shows have felt a little bitty and the Dr just has not been used to his full potential yet.
Capaldi said recently he still hasn't nailed who his Dr is yet - I thought this sounded a good thing as it hinted at a more complex Dr but it might be that he just hasn't had much to do yet.
Luckily, the general feeling is people are enjoying the show - this series is less arc due to the moaning about too much arc in the past series but that means people are now moaning that these stand alone episodes haven't got much to them...basically no show-runner will be able to win.
I used to look forward to Dr Who like a young child looks forward to Xmas Day, sadly no more. For me, Moffat has ruined this show.
Dr Who is more Dr Who under Moffat than under RTD. He has made it more watchable and memorable for me. This serie hasn't hit the ground running and they are trying a different feel to the show with more self-contained stories and less story arc.
It is a bit hard to believe. It does mean that Clara is the most important companion ever. Which Is slightly irritating. But then again, why shouldn't she be? She's no more or less qualified than any of the others.
In answer to your 'why shouldn't she be' you've sort of answered your own question with 'she's no more or less qualified than any of the others' which tells you she should have no more importance over the doctors life than anyone else.
I think people would have been annoyed if they had tried to write such grandiose importance over the doctors life for a companion who was already actuallly liked such as rose or donna, but to do it for a companion who had yet to even integrate with most of the audience was just so so wrong. For me it's one of a few reasons why I still can't take to her and the threat that the horrible 'impossible girl' storyline could possibly be dragged back up any time whilst she's still around is what is making me hope that the rumours about her leaving at Christmas turn out to be true
In answer to your 'why shouldn't she be' you've sort of answered your own question with 'she's no more or less qualified than any of the others' which tells you she should have no more importance over the doctors life than anyone else.
I think people would have been annoyed if they had tried to write such grandiose importance over the doctors life for a companion who was already actuallly liked such as rose or donna, but to do it for a companion who had yet to even integrate with most of the audience was just so so wrong. For me it's one of a few reasons why I still can't take to her and the threat that the horrible 'impossible girl' storyline could possibly be dragged back up any time whilst she's still around is what is making me hope that the rumours about her leaving at Christmas turn out to be true
Hmm, I see your point. With 'The Impossoble Girl' I got the impression Moffat was trying to be far smarter than he actually was. Plus I think he really over-estimated how much Clara would be liked. He got very cocky with series 7 and it's like he just stopped trying.
I do see why she is under qualified. But it's pretty irrelevant. Regardless of how deserving, she is in this position now. She has met every incarnation, and she has met the doctor as a little boy. Instead of taking issue, I'm just going to enjoy it for what it is and hope the pay off is better than the previous story with her.
Dr Who is more Dr Who under Moffat than under RTD. He has made it more watchable and memorable for me. This serie hasn't hit the ground running and they are trying a different feel to the show with more self-contained stories and less story arc.
Have to strongly disagree. I'm enjoying this series more than any since Tennant left but there's still a slight bit of the old RTD magic missing. The fact that they are going back to a less arc heavy series, less over muddled stories, and what hopefully is a self contained arc seems to me that Moffat is acknowledging past series mistakes by going back to a more RTD style of series plotting
Hmm, I see your point. With 'The Impossoble Girl' I got the impression Moffat was trying to be far smarter than he actually was. Plus I think he really over-estimated how much Clara would be liked. He got very cocky with series 7 and it's like he just stopped trying.
I do see why she is under qualified. But it's pretty irrelevant. Regardless of how deserving, she is in this position now. She has met every incarnation, and she has met the doctor as a little boy. Instead of taking issue, I'm just going to enjoy it for what it is and hope the pay off is better than the previous story with her.
Yeah, it is what it is i suppose, but as I say the fact that it is what it is makes me want us shot of her as soon as possible. As for the 'she has met every incarnation' I'm one of the firm believers that the doctor not dying on trenzalore wiped out the impossible girl rubbish(although the doctor at least still remembers). If people choose to believe different thats their choice but that is what I think and what I will believe unless they explicitly state otherwise in the show, which hopefully I don't think they will want to drag it back up because Moffat seems to have given that whole thing a very wide birth this series by not mentioning it, having blatantly seemed to realise what a mess it all was.
Yeah, it is what it is i suppose, but as I say the fact that it is what it is makes me want us shot of her as soon as possible. As for the 'she has met every incarnation' I'm one of the firm believers that the doctor not dying on trenzalore wiped out the impossible girl rubbish(although the doctor at least still remembers). If people choose to believe different thats their choice but that is what I think and what I will believe unless they explicitly state otherwise in the show, which hopefully I don't think they will want to drag it back up because Moffat seems to have given that whole thing a very wide birth this series by not mentioning it, having blatantly seemed to realise what a mess it all was.
I'd not thought of that theory before. I'm not usually a fan of resetting or forgetting certain parts of what happened - but with that Impossible Girl malarkey I think I'd forgive it. Hopefully it's all been forgotten. It was all such a hideous mish mash of bad ideas I don't blame Moffat for trying to forget it ever happened. Pretty embarrassing for all concerned.
I'd not thought of that theory before. I'm not usually a fan of resetting or forgetting certain parts of what happened - but with that Impossible Girl malarkey I think I'd forgive it. Hopefully it's all been forgotten. It was all such a hideous mish mash of bad ideas I don't blame Moffat for trying to forget it ever happened. Pretty embarrassing for all concerned.
Completely agree 100%. I can at least applaud Moffat for realising that it was a mistake and seemingly learning from it.
Kind of agree with the OP on series 7,the whole Impossible Girl thing I just found a bore and confusing(maybe if it had been more interesting more it would be less confusing as more attention would have been paid)
But I'm enjoying this series so far,I was a fan of Matt but this series seems fresh and that was needed.
And I like Clara,now they've got rid of all the IG arc baggage she seems like a new character and a fun one at that.
I've heard people say before that when it comes to Doctor Who you're better off going along with your own version of continuity and I think thats about right.
So for me I just file Impossible Girl with other nonsense like half-human and War Doctor, it never happened.
Completely agree 100%. I can at least applaud Moffat for realising that it was a mistake and seemingly learning from it.
I don't know that's the case. It's possible (I'd say likely) that there'll be future references to Clara's actions in the timestream because it is part of te DW story but not having it mentioned constantly is most likely down to the simple fact that there's no need to - not because of some "embarrassment" on the part of Steven Moffat.
In answer to your 'why shouldn't she be' you've sort of answered your own question with 'she's no more or less qualified than any of the others' which tells you she should have no more importance over the doctors life than anyone else.
I think people would have been annoyed if they had tried to write such grandiose importance over the doctors life for a companion who was already actuallly liked such as rose or donna, but to do it for a companion who had yet to even integrate with most of the audience was just so so wrong. For me it's one of a few reasons why I still can't take to her and the threat that the horrible 'impossible girl' storyline could possibly be dragged back up any time whilst she's still around is what is making me hope that the rumours about her leaving at Christmas turn out to be true
I agree. Nothing I hate more than being told how special someone is when we've only just met them. Also, it's kind of an affront to all the companions that had gone before.
They had to increase Rose's importance in the first series because they were just rebooting it and so they needed to connect very quickly with the audience. Having an ordinary human teenager made sense because Rose was a type (some might say stereotype) that we could all recognise.
Now the series is established, it doesn't need to use the tricks that the early seasons did to hook in viewers. We don't need a companion who is the most special and important gal in the universe even though they look like your average modern-day person. It's been nearly ten years, I think the show needs to break away from that. Somebody from the twenties or thirties would be awesome- think of their outfits!
Sitting every Saturday night, as I do, I find myself this series more bored than previously... Well I said that but looking back I was also bored in the second half of series 7 but will get back to that later.
Anyway my point is, is that for me this series has been boring. The storylines have been lacking, the atmosphere of the surroundings haven't worked. Only thing I remember from the first episode is how pointless having a dinosaur was, as well as "Missy". As far as I'm concerned this series is far too Clara heavy..this for me dates back to when she first come in.
Back in the second half of series 7, that's when the rot set in for me. I assumed it was because I knew MS was leaving but having rewatched series 7 straight into this, I now realise its too much about Clara... Why???
Its like the Doctor is the backing actor to the Clara show and its been like this since she first come on. OK, so she's pretty bit that's no excuse!!
I'm not sure you did know that Matt Smith was leaving. Wasn't it announced some time after series 7 ended? Or do you work for the BBC and knew earlier?
Back in the second half of series 7, that's when the rot set in for me. I assumed it was because I knew MS was leaving but having rewatched series 7 straight into this, I now realise its too much about Clara... Why???
Its like the Doctor is the backing actor to the Clara show and its been like this since she first come on. OK, so she's pretty bit that's no excuse!!
According to Moffat, Clara is now the "main character".
I'm not sure you did know that Matt Smith was leaving. Wasn't it announced some time after series 7 ended? Or do you work for the BBC and knew earlier?
Wasn't it rumoured? Unless am wrong, which if I am it doesn't explain why I couldn't get into the second part of series 7
Clara's great and always has been. The advantage of her impossible girl arc being over in just half a series was that her mystery hasn't dominated her time on the show. As character arcs go it balanced a good line between clever and simple and the only thing wrong with it is they've completely ignored any emotional fallout for her. However her relationship with 11 was brilliant and beautifully constructed.
12 is an interesting idea that's not yet well executed. He's just not as fun a character to watch and he's not deep enough to be really interesting. The stories feel a bit stale because the style hasn't changed. Rather than feeling refreshed the show feels tired and needs a behind rather than in front of the camera change.
According to Moffat, Clara is now the "main character".
How can he say that? if he wants her to be the main character then she should have her own spin off instead, the main character will ALWAYS be the Doctor.
For me, the issue is that Twelve and Clara do not work together very well. Clara is cold and aloof, appearing emotionless and above it all. With more time, in Deep Breath, her personality is given more depth but in the shorter episodes she comes across as little more than a plot device. With Eleven that wasn't such an issue as his wackiness and excitability injected some energy onto the screen (though River, Amy and Rory were his 'true' companions) but Twelve is far cooler and detached, resulting in a disconnect between the audience and what's happening on the screen. Before when watching Who I felt I was involved in the adventures. Now, I feel like a viewer watching actors perform something which lacks heart.
I hasten to add that there's no reason why the Doctor particularly can't be cold and aloof - Nine tended to be from the modern era - but in order for that to work you need a companion with warmth, drive and/or passion to sustain the audience's interest. For me, this warmth has been missing from this series and is why I'm finding it harder to connect to the stories than before.
I used to look forward to Dr Who like a young child looks forward to Xmas Day, sadly no more. For me, Moffat has ruined this show.
I kind of agree with this sentiment, although I wouldn't go as far as to say 'ruined' just slightly downgraded in quality. During the RTD era it felt so special every week and you were absolutely guaranteed a grand finale which was fully explained and self contained within that series. During the Matt smith era it was still one of my favourite shows but it went from being something immensely special to gradually just something I watched, and something I often (especially at series finale time) was left feeling frustrated with. This series so far has been the best since Tennant and RTD left and I am enjoying it so far but there is still a little something missing for me. I think it's the fact that Moffat can write good stories (when he's not trying to prove his cleverness) but he can't do the emotional resonance like RTD, who could do both.
Sitting every Saturday night, as I do, I find myself this series more bored than previously...
I find that too. I actually fell asleep for ten minutes, when 'Listen' was on. I myself don't feel as though the writing has been up to scratch, this time round. It's sad, I know.
I found 'Time Heist' a bit better than the week before, when 'Listen' was on, and I would say the best so far, is 'Time Heist', and the worst so far, is 'Listen'.
I'd not thought of that theory before. I'm not usually a fan of resetting or forgetting certain parts of what happened - but with that Impossible Girl malarkey I think I'd forgive it. Hopefully it's all been forgotten. It was all such a hideous mish mash of bad ideas I don't blame Moffat for trying to forget it ever happened. Pretty embarrassing for all concerned.
So, SM has ACTUALLY said that the whole 'Impossible Girl' thing was a mistake, and is trying to forget it ever happened.
So, what will that mean for people just getting into the show for the first time? Those who want to see Series 7?
We'd have to disappoint the newbies by saying that the 'Impossible Girl' storyline wasn't put out on screen very well, and that it was a mish-mash.
So, SM has ACTUALLY said that the whole 'Impossible Girl' thing was a mistake, and is trying to forget it ever happened.
So, what will that mean for people just getting into the show for the first time? Those who want to see Series 7?
We'd have to disappoint the newbies by saying that the 'Impossible Girl' storyline wasn't put out on screen very well, and that it was a mish-mash.
They'll make up their own minds. Future fans will discover the DVD's in the future, or however they watch them, and for some Series 7 will be a favourite. It's the beauty of the show.
I remember received wisdom when I became a fan was that the Williams era was very poor.Then I caught up with Season 16, City of Death, Fang Rock and more on bootleg video, naughty, and loved them! Different strokes....
Comments
The second half of series 7 was absolutely superb.
This series has been underwhelming for the reasons why series 7 was so good - the shows have felt a little bitty and the Dr just has not been used to his full potential yet.
Capaldi said recently he still hasn't nailed who his Dr is yet - I thought this sounded a good thing as it hinted at a more complex Dr but it might be that he just hasn't had much to do yet.
Luckily, the general feeling is people are enjoying the show - this series is less arc due to the moaning about too much arc in the past series but that means people are now moaning that these stand alone episodes haven't got much to them...basically no show-runner will be able to win.
Dr Who is more Dr Who under Moffat than under RTD. He has made it more watchable and memorable for me. This serie hasn't hit the ground running and they are trying a different feel to the show with more self-contained stories and less story arc.
In answer to your 'why shouldn't she be' you've sort of answered your own question with 'she's no more or less qualified than any of the others' which tells you she should have no more importance over the doctors life than anyone else.
I think people would have been annoyed if they had tried to write such grandiose importance over the doctors life for a companion who was already actuallly liked such as rose or donna, but to do it for a companion who had yet to even integrate with most of the audience was just so so wrong. For me it's one of a few reasons why I still can't take to her and the threat that the horrible 'impossible girl' storyline could possibly be dragged back up any time whilst she's still around is what is making me hope that the rumours about her leaving at Christmas turn out to be true
Hmm, I see your point. With 'The Impossoble Girl' I got the impression Moffat was trying to be far smarter than he actually was. Plus I think he really over-estimated how much Clara would be liked. He got very cocky with series 7 and it's like he just stopped trying.
I do see why she is under qualified. But it's pretty irrelevant. Regardless of how deserving, she is in this position now. She has met every incarnation, and she has met the doctor as a little boy. Instead of taking issue, I'm just going to enjoy it for what it is and hope the pay off is better than the previous story with her.
I'd not thought of that theory before. I'm not usually a fan of resetting or forgetting certain parts of what happened - but with that Impossible Girl malarkey I think I'd forgive it. Hopefully it's all been forgotten. It was all such a hideous mish mash of bad ideas I don't blame Moffat for trying to forget it ever happened. Pretty embarrassing for all concerned.
Completely agree 100%. I can at least applaud Moffat for realising that it was a mistake and seemingly learning from it.
But I'm enjoying this series so far,I was a fan of Matt but this series seems fresh and that was needed.
And I like Clara,now they've got rid of all the IG arc baggage she seems like a new character and a fun one at that.
I've heard people say before that when it comes to Doctor Who you're better off going along with your own version of continuity and I think thats about right.
So for me I just file Impossible Girl with other nonsense like half-human and War Doctor, it never happened.
I don't know that's the case. It's possible (I'd say likely) that there'll be future references to Clara's actions in the timestream because it is part of te DW story but not having it mentioned constantly is most likely down to the simple fact that there's no need to - not because of some "embarrassment" on the part of Steven Moffat.
I agree. Nothing I hate more than being told how special someone is when we've only just met them. Also, it's kind of an affront to all the companions that had gone before.
They had to increase Rose's importance in the first series because they were just rebooting it and so they needed to connect very quickly with the audience. Having an ordinary human teenager made sense because Rose was a type (some might say stereotype) that we could all recognise.
Now the series is established, it doesn't need to use the tricks that the early seasons did to hook in viewers. We don't need a companion who is the most special and important gal in the universe even though they look like your average modern-day person. It's been nearly ten years, I think the show needs to break away from that. Somebody from the twenties or thirties would be awesome- think of their outfits!
I'm not sure you did know that Matt Smith was leaving. Wasn't it announced some time after series 7 ended? Or do you work for the BBC and knew earlier?
According to Moffat, Clara is now the "main character".
Can you provide a source for that information?
Wasn't it rumoured? Unless am wrong, which if I am it doesn't explain why I couldn't get into the second part of series 7
Oh well that's not good for me is it? If that's the case then I suppose YET again the universe revolves around Clara doesn't it
It's not true - moffat has said no such thing. In fact, Moffat has said the exact opposite - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-2720950/Watch-Jenna-Doctor-Rude-going-Timelord-says-writer-Steven-Moffat-Capaldi-bare-fangs.html
12 is an interesting idea that's not yet well executed. He's just not as fun a character to watch and he's not deep enough to be really interesting. The stories feel a bit stale because the style hasn't changed. Rather than feeling refreshed the show feels tired and needs a behind rather than in front of the camera change.
How can he say that? if he wants her to be the main character then she should have her own spin off instead, the main character will ALWAYS be the Doctor.
I hasten to add that there's no reason why the Doctor particularly can't be cold and aloof - Nine tended to be from the modern era - but in order for that to work you need a companion with warmth, drive and/or passion to sustain the audience's interest. For me, this warmth has been missing from this series and is why I'm finding it harder to connect to the stories than before.
This announcement might lead to an upsurge in....nah, can't do it. Just ripping off Douglas Adams. Sorry.
I kind of agree with this sentiment, although I wouldn't go as far as to say 'ruined' just slightly downgraded in quality. During the RTD era it felt so special every week and you were absolutely guaranteed a grand finale which was fully explained and self contained within that series. During the Matt smith era it was still one of my favourite shows but it went from being something immensely special to gradually just something I watched, and something I often (especially at series finale time) was left feeling frustrated with. This series so far has been the best since Tennant and RTD left and I am enjoying it so far but there is still a little something missing for me. I think it's the fact that Moffat can write good stories (when he's not trying to prove his cleverness) but he can't do the emotional resonance like RTD, who could do both.
I find that too. I actually fell asleep for ten minutes, when 'Listen' was on. I myself don't feel as though the writing has been up to scratch, this time round.
I found 'Time Heist' a bit better than the week before, when 'Listen' was on, and I would say the best so far, is 'Time Heist', and the worst so far, is 'Listen'.
So, SM has ACTUALLY said that the whole 'Impossible Girl' thing was a mistake, and is trying to forget it ever happened.
So, what will that mean for people just getting into the show for the first time?
We'd have to disappoint the newbies by saying that the 'Impossible Girl' storyline wasn't put out on screen very well, and that it was a mish-mash.
They'll make up their own minds. Future fans will discover the DVD's in the future, or however they watch them, and for some Series 7 will be a favourite. It's the beauty of the show.
I remember received wisdom when I became a fan was that the Williams era was very poor.Then I caught up with Season 16, City of Death, Fang Rock and more on bootleg video, naughty, and loved them! Different strokes....