He was a spy long before he was permitted 00 status.
The thing is. The Bond films, whether we have it or not, have moved on. As much as I loved Die Another Day, it took things too far. I can look past the "Vanish" car, as I thought that was a fun concept, every bit as I liked the remote controlled BMW in Tomorrow Never Dies. But when we started with the virtual reality stuff, included the unneeded "testing out" scene at the end of DaD, it seems obvious things needed to change.
Casino Royale was the result. Bond films since then have never been the same for me, but it's worked out for the better for me and for the franchise.
There was little wrong with Die Another Day apart from Madge's awful theme song, and the CGI windsurfing scene. The film was fun and exciting, as were most of the Bond films before it. It was everything Craig's 3 films haven't been.
The virtual reality scene was silly, but it was right at the end of the film, done for a bit of comic relief, and did no damage. If anything from Die Another Day damaged the franchise as a whole going forward, it was the windsurfing scene, and Toby Stephens' CGI death. But the same sort of thing was done with Gert Frobe in Goldfinger 50 years ago, so it's hard to point the finger at the cheesy CGI in Die Another Day.
There was little wrong with Die Another Day apart from Madge's awful theme song, and the CGI windsurfing scene. The film was fun and exciting, as were most of the Bond films before it. It was everything Craig's 3 films haven't been.
The virtual reality scene was silly, but it was right at the end of the film, done for a bit of comic relief, and did no damage. If anything from Die Another Day damaged the franchise as a whole going forward, it was the windsurfing scene, and Toby Stephens' CGI death. But the same sort of thing was done with Gert Frobe in Goldfinger 50 years ago, so it's hard to point the finger at the cheesy CGI in Die Another Day.
I was concerned with the idea of having virtual reality scene(s) at all.
I liked it, very enjoyable but.... it is still not a BOND film. I had hoped that the producers had got the Bourne (who he?) stuff out of their systems with Quantum, the end of which hinted that the series was going to get back on track, ( as does the end of Skyfall )
Call me shallow but I would like a return to "Gratuitous sex and violence"
Favourite bit:
They have spent the best part of two hours trying to kill me and now they have f+#ked the Aston, now I am REALLY ANGRY
IMO Bourne could owe something to Ian Flemming's Bond maybe, + the amnesia stuff? Bond was globetrotting and killing bad guys and shagging girls before Bourne was in nappies
I loved the first 3 Bournes though, havent seen the 4th one yet.
I liked it, very enjoyable but.... it is still not a BOND film. I had hoped that the producers had got the Bourne (who he?) stuff out of their systems with Quantum, the end of which hinted that the series was going to get back on track, ( as does the end of Skyfall )
Call me shallow but I would like a return to "Gratuitous sex and violence"
Favourite bit:
They have spent the best part of two hours trying to kill me and now they have f+#ked the Aston, now I am REALLY ANGRY
The Bonds of pre Casino Royale will not be returning. At least for a while. Bond films evolve and this is no exception
Just have to get it off my chest: After all the hype this is one hellishly disappointing Bond film. Very, very average movie. Why people think its the best Bong flick going ever is utterly beyond me.
Flaws:
1. Sam Mendes is a good arts movie director but he can't direct action to save his life
2. Slow, boring, hugely predictable story. Which was riddled with huge plot holes as well.
3. Casino Royale updated the tired Bond formula, made it modern, actually made it emotional and made you care. This was straight back to the usual old sh*te. Maybe some people prefer that, I don't. God its taken just 2 sequels to undo all the progress made by that film. How sad.
4. What happened to all the Quantum stuff the last two films built up? Whatever anybody thought of them they at least whetted the appetite for some pay off in this movie that never came.
5. The villain was fun when he eventually turned up, but why did we have to wait half the movie before this happened?
6. The final "Home Alone" battle. Jeezus Christ who though that was a good idea??!? It was like something out of MacGuyver,
Finally: I don't think its any wonder tabloids have been spreading rumours Daniel Craig wants to get out of this crap. I feel sorry for him. He comes in with the best Bond in decades, then is reduced to doing something that would embarrass George Lazenby.
Just have to get it off my chest: After all the hype this is one hellishly disappointing Bond film. Very, very average movie. Why people think its the best Bong flick going ever is utterly beyond me.
Flaws:
1. Sam Mendes is a good arts movie director but he can't direct action to save his life
2. Slow, boring, hugely predictable story. Which was riddled with huge plot holes as well.
3. Casino Royale updated the tired Bond formula, made it modern, actually made it emotional and made you care. This was straight back to the usual old sh*te. Maybe some people prefer that, I don't. God its taken just 2 sequels to undo all the progress made by that film. How sad.
4. What happened to all the Quantum stuff the last two films built up? Whatever anybody thought of them they at least whetted the appetite for some pay off in this movie that never came.
5. The villain was fun when he eventually turned up, but why did we have to wait half the movie before this happened?
6. The final "Home Alone" battle. Jeezus Christ who though that was a good idea??!? It was like something out of MacGuyver,
Finally: I don't think its any wonder tabloids have been spreading rumours Daniel Craig wants to get out of this crap. I feel sorry for him. He comes in with the best Bond in decades, then is reduced to doing something that would embarrass George Lazenby.
Bond is...dead. Get over it
oh dear.... I can't believe how harsh you're being! :eek:
Takings suggest Bond is alive and well. The Bond formula has only just come back. The producers didn't update it, they ripped it apart with Casino Royale, which was a great film. Skyfall might not be a film worthly of a the hype in the cold light of day but I suspect you know you're being well harsh on a very worthy Bond film.
went last night....massive Bond fan -i like the new incarnation and I like Dan Craig, loved Casino Royale despite some things but that was a triumph.....so looking forward to it.....i think I wasn't in the best of moods personally but last chance down my way to see it....so..... objectively what I think is wrong and IMHO....
1) It's too enclosed in and like some posters say it's like Spooks/Hunted on a bigger scale....but that scale isn't anywhere near big enough...
.I initially loved it that it's based in London and that's one of the problems....much more continent hopping is what a Bond film does....this is too hemmed in...product of a theatre director being at the helm perhaps?
2) The shanghai skyscraper fight....couldn't make out a thing of what was going on because of the random lighting......
3) The homo-erotic bit.....just chucked in even more ham-fisted than a Russell T Davies script....can't see what it added apart from trying to be beyond PC & equality to a ludicrous degree...it jarred....
4) it jarred almost as much as (and yes I know we are used to the product placement now) but the heineken...clumsy..:rolleyes:..the VW/Audi....worse...:eek:follow the Audi...."what's happening there"? VW Beetles? jeesus.....funnier would be Beetles...we all know who makes them......
5) Tata...i.e. Land Rover/Jaguar?Range Rover....slightly more subtle but a Black Range Rover...in a spy film? again?:rolleyes:
6) not finding out the girl's name at all even though she's having a "close shave" with you in all sorts of ways....really? :rolleyes:
7) but for me worse than any of the cardinal sins above...the worst thing is by far...hey call me old fashioned i don't care I am.....
and I never saw Connery or Moore or Dalton doing it (and he was in the closest perhaps in feel to the current style with Licence To Kill)
....but...the swearing....it was terrible...so dropped in...it jarred in X Men 1st class with Hugh Jackman dropping in the F word totally unnecessary....
but in a Bond film? it's lazy writing and just not needed...it jars and hampers the dialogue as I wasn't expecting it to be there..... there are other ways than saying s*** S*** repeatedly to make a point.....
Albert Finney calling James a little......just out of the blue and just a clanger...and then M.....unless i misheard in the old cinema I was in.... to use the F word....really?
is that what you need to engage the teen audience who think nothing of swearing in front of adults at any given time? really? it added nothing to the plot nothing...it really really felt to me like it halted the progress of the story as I just felt uncomfortable..:o
yes it's gritty and maybe won't be on cosy sunday winter afternoons like a lot of us have grown up with I know....and really that's a shame...damnitt.......and yes damnitt would have been quite sufficient as a swear word Q. thanks very much....
really disappointed and dismayed....a bit of my childhood's been ripped out...won't be the same either....:(
I dont think the end of the film necessarily means we'll see a swift - or maybe any - return to camp/cheesy Bond. The start of Skyfall doesnt mean Bond has lost his touch overnight. Maybe he was a spy for years before he got his 00 - theres more backstory to be told than a fight in the toilet - which Skyfall does (I loved Casino Royale)
I can't forsee old Des Llewellin's Q swearing while doing is Quartermaster duties to any of the other Bonds'. Or even Judi Dench's M swearing at Brosnans Bond, but, times are different.
I didn't like it, but it didn't spoil the film for me. The Bond films are simply not what they once were.
Yeah I know what you mean, but even in Goldeneye M does put down Bond by saying he's sexist, a dinosaur etc, something we hadnt seen up to that point.
Another sign of the changing times at that point. It was good that happened but let's be honest, we don't want to Bond to change when we see him at the Cinema do we? The Actors change but the character should stay the same!
....but...the swearing....it was terrible...so dropped in...it jarred in X Men 1st class with Hugh Jackman dropping in the F word totally unnecessary....
but in a Bond film? it's lazy writing and just not needed...it jars and hampers the dialogue as I wasn't expecting it to be there..... there are other ways than saying s*** S*** repeatedly to make a point.....
Albert Finney calling James a little......just out of the blue and just a clanger...and then M.....unless i misheard in the old cinema I was in.... to use the F word....really?
is that what you need to engage the teen audience who think nothing of swearing in front of adults at any given time? really? it added nothing to the plot nothing...it really really felt to me like it halted the progress of the story as I just felt uncomfortable..:o
Sorry, but i strongly disagree with everything in this quote. The swearing wasn't forced or unneccesary, especially M's use of the F word which was the perfect summation of how she was feeling, it wasn't aggressive or directed at anyone and wasn't inteneded to cause offense. Likewise, if you'd just allowed a security system to be compromised, and thus allowing a recently captured terrorist to escape, i'm pretty sure you wouldn't be saying "oh darn", so saying "shit" was a perfectly acceptable use of the swear word. And you seriously let Albert Finney saying "prick" upset you? It was intended to be a bit of comic relief, and on both occasions when i saw it at the cinema it received quite a large laugh from the audience. They're only words, hardly childhood destroying...
I agree that sometimes swearing in films IS unneccesary, gratuitous and the sign of a lazy script (for an example of that, see Rob Zombies 'Halloween 2' which has one of the worst screenplays i've ever seen as pretty much every word is the F word), but Skyfall uses swearing very sparingly and it felt completely natural in the circumstances that the characters were in.
Some of these lists of things 'wrong' with Skyfall seem to be going out of their way to criticize the film in ways that added atmosphere to it, and seemingly think that it should have been a film even idiots could watch - although it's a Bond film.
I agree with CJClarke's great post. OK I was surprised for a sec M said "f*ck" because it was M - not because of the word itself, and I agree it was completely understandable given the situation she was in, it wasnt agressive, or directed at anyone, like another person. Likewise Q swearing. Theyre just words.
Sorry, but i strongly disagree with everything in this quote. The swearing wasn't forced or unneccesary, especially M's use of the F word which was the perfect summation of how she was feeling, it wasn't aggressive or directed at anyone and wasn't inteneded to cause offense. Likewise, if you'd just allowed a security system to be compromised, and thus allowing a recently captured terrorist to escape, i'm pretty sure you wouldn't be saying "oh darn", so saying "shit" was a perfectly acceptable use of the swear word. And you seriously let Albert Finney saying "prick" upset you? It was intended to be a bit of comic relief, and on both occasions when i saw it at the cinema it received quite a large laugh from the audience. They're only words, hardly childhood destroying...
I agree that sometimes swearing in films IS unneccesary, gratuitous and the sign of a lazy script (for an example of that, see Rob Zombies 'Halloween 2' which has one of the worst screenplays i've ever seen as pretty much every word is the F word), but Skyfall uses swearing very sparingly and it felt completely natural in the circumstances that the characters were in.
Very good points, but swearing isn't natural to some (not many i admit) people these days. So it jars some more than others. I can do without the swearing, but it doesn't make me enjoy Skyfall any less.
I saw it last night and loved it. I've only seen the last 4 Bond films and I thought this one had a more human feel. I understood the plot too - I have got lost in the past ones and I couldn't tell you what happened in QOS!!
Why do I keep getting the feeling that the 'gay' scene was enough to sour a lot of people's view of Skyfall, regardless of the rest of the film? Also, I'm guessing it wasn't mindless enough for some...
I thought it was pretty decent but a little too TV-like in places.
Comments
There was little wrong with Die Another Day apart from Madge's awful theme song, and the CGI windsurfing scene. The film was fun and exciting, as were most of the Bond films before it. It was everything Craig's 3 films haven't been.
The virtual reality scene was silly, but it was right at the end of the film, done for a bit of comic relief, and did no damage. If anything from Die Another Day damaged the franchise as a whole going forward, it was the windsurfing scene, and Toby Stephens' CGI death. But the same sort of thing was done with Gert Frobe in Goldfinger 50 years ago, so it's hard to point the finger at the cheesy CGI in Die Another Day.
I was concerned with the idea of having virtual reality scene(s) at all.
Yes they do LOL
Call me shallow but I would like a return to "Gratuitous sex and violence"
Favourite bit:
IMO Bourne could owe something to Ian Flemming's Bond maybe, + the amnesia stuff?
I loved the first 3 Bournes though, havent seen the 4th one yet.
The Bonds of pre Casino Royale will not be returning. At least for a while. Bond films evolve and this is no exception
Flaws:
1. Sam Mendes is a good arts movie director but he can't direct action to save his life
2. Slow, boring, hugely predictable story. Which was riddled with huge plot holes as well.
3. Casino Royale updated the tired Bond formula, made it modern, actually made it emotional and made you care. This was straight back to the usual old sh*te. Maybe some people prefer that, I don't. God its taken just 2 sequels to undo all the progress made by that film. How sad.
4. What happened to all the Quantum stuff the last two films built up? Whatever anybody thought of them they at least whetted the appetite for some pay off in this movie that never came.
5. The villain was fun when he eventually turned up, but why did we have to wait half the movie before this happened?
6. The final "Home Alone" battle. Jeezus Christ who though that was a good idea??!? It was like something out of MacGuyver,
Finally: I don't think its any wonder tabloids have been spreading rumours Daniel Craig wants to get out of this crap. I feel sorry for him. He comes in with the best Bond in decades, then is reduced to doing something that would embarrass George Lazenby.
Bond is...dead. Get over it
I thought exactly the same thing when I was watching Judi Dench making lightbulb bombs. Half expected Richard Dean Anderson to walk in.
oh dear....
Takings suggest Bond is alive and well. The Bond formula has only just come back. The producers didn't update it, they ripped it apart with Casino Royale, which was a great film. Skyfall might not be a film worthly of a the hype in the cold light of day but I suspect you know you're being well harsh on a very worthy Bond film.
1) It's too enclosed in and like some posters say it's like Spooks/Hunted on a bigger scale....but that scale isn't anywhere near big enough...
.I initially loved it that it's based in London and that's one of the problems....much more continent hopping is what a Bond film does....this is too hemmed in...product of a theatre director being at the helm perhaps?
2) The shanghai skyscraper fight....couldn't make out a thing of what was going on because of the random lighting......
3) The homo-erotic bit.....just chucked in even more ham-fisted than a Russell T Davies script....can't see what it added apart from trying to be beyond PC & equality to a ludicrous degree...it jarred....
4) it jarred almost as much as (and yes I know we are used to the product placement now) but the heineken...clumsy..:rolleyes:..the VW/Audi....worse...:eek:follow the Audi...."what's happening there"? VW Beetles?
5) Tata...i.e. Land Rover/Jaguar?Range Rover....slightly more subtle but a Black Range Rover...in a spy film? again?:rolleyes:
6) not finding out the girl's name at all even though she's having a "close shave" with you in all sorts of ways....really? :rolleyes:
7) but for me worse than any of the cardinal sins above...the worst thing is by far...hey call me old fashioned i don't care I am.....
and I never saw Connery or Moore or Dalton doing it (and he was in the closest perhaps in feel to the current style with Licence To Kill)
....but...the swearing....it was terrible...so dropped in...it jarred in X Men 1st class with Hugh Jackman dropping in the F word totally unnecessary....
but in a Bond film? it's lazy writing and just not needed...it jars and hampers the dialogue as I wasn't expecting it to be there..... there are other ways than saying s*** S*** repeatedly to make a point.....
Albert Finney calling James a little......just out of the blue and just a clanger...and then M.....unless i misheard in the old cinema I was in.... to use the F word....really?
is that what you need to engage the teen audience who think nothing of swearing in front of adults at any given time? really? it added nothing to the plot nothing...it really really felt to me like it halted the progress of the story as I just felt uncomfortable..:o
yes it's gritty and maybe won't be on cosy sunday winter afternoons like a lot of us have grown up with I know....and really that's a shame...damnitt.......and yes damnitt would have been quite sufficient as a swear word Q. thanks very much....
really disappointed and dismayed....a bit of my childhood's been ripped out...won't be the same either....:(
I didn't like it, but it didn't spoil the film for me. The Bond films are simply not what they once were.
Another sign of the changing times at that point. It was good that happened but let's be honest, we don't want to Bond to change when we see him at the Cinema do we? The Actors change but the character should stay the same!
I am seeing it tonight for the 3rd time. Not out of choice but different friends who have not seen it.
I have been a Bond fan all my life and no matter who rubish a Bond film is I will still sit through it again and watch it as it's Bond.
Yes there were flaws in Skyfall but it is still a good film.
Was it 'necessary' - no. Was it an appropriate summation of events - yes. Happy to let Judi Dench have that one.
Sorry, but i strongly disagree with everything in this quote. The swearing wasn't forced or unneccesary, especially M's use of the F word which was the perfect summation of how she was feeling, it wasn't aggressive or directed at anyone and wasn't inteneded to cause offense. Likewise, if you'd just allowed a security system to be compromised, and thus allowing a recently captured terrorist to escape, i'm pretty sure you wouldn't be saying "oh darn", so saying "shit" was a perfectly acceptable use of the swear word. And you seriously let Albert Finney saying "prick" upset you? It was intended to be a bit of comic relief, and on both occasions when i saw it at the cinema it received quite a large laugh from the audience. They're only words, hardly childhood destroying...
I agree that sometimes swearing in films IS unneccesary, gratuitous and the sign of a lazy script (for an example of that, see Rob Zombies 'Halloween 2' which has one of the worst screenplays i've ever seen as pretty much every word is the F word), but Skyfall uses swearing very sparingly and it felt completely natural in the circumstances that the characters were in.
Very good points, but swearing isn't natural to some (not many i admit) people these days. So it jars some more than others. I can do without the swearing, but it doesn't make me enjoy Skyfall any less.
Loved Q
"But you've got spots!"
I thought it was pretty decent but a little too TV-like in places.