Jimmy Saville to be revealed as a paedophile? (Part 7)

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  • i4ui4u Posts: 54,811
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    How did a newspaper get this info, the man told the paper?
    He is said to have told detectives that he was walking to an amateur drama production at the village where he grew up on the day of the alleged rape.

    The actor is claimed to have pulled up in his car near the venue, approached the youngster and asked whether he recognised him.

    The man said he told the television star he did know who he was.

    He claimed the actor then pulled out a £5 note and said he would be throwing a party at his house that evening and it would be attended by famous actors and several agents.

    The man said he got into the actor’s car and was taken to a house.

    There he claims he was taken upstairs, pinned down by three men and assaulted by the actor.

    The alleged victim told police he then blacked out, saying he finally came round when he was thrown out of the house naked.

    He said that his clothes were thrown out behind him then the door of the house was slammed shut.

    When did he know who his alleged abuser was?
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 595
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    OK so many years ago I decided to get into a stranger's car after being offered money. I was taken to a house where 3 men took me upstairs and pinned me down. I was assaulted by X who had never told me who he was. I blacked out and came round when I was thrown out of the house followed by my clothes.

    Right! I really believe all that. I must go to the police and make a similar accusation against someone famous so I can get some compensation.

    I have real sympathy with those who were raped by anyone but this seems to be a "bandwagon jumper" to me.
  • skp20040skp20040 Posts: 66,872
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    Just announced Andrew Lancel found Not Guilty.
  • ee-ayee-ay Posts: 3,963
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    skp20040 wrote: »
    Just announced Andrew Lancel found Not Guilty.

    It was a very quick decision by the jury, took 29 minutes to find him not guilty.
  • chinchinchinchin Posts: 125,675
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    Good news! Always liked him in the Bill and other programmes I've seen him in.
  • Bus Stop2012Bus Stop2012 Posts: 5,624
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    skp20040 wrote: »

    Its just wrong, by anyone's standards, for the media to be doorstepping people before the police have even contacted them :mad:
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 87,224
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  • dodradedodrade Posts: 23,680
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    It was a very quick decision by the jury, took 29 minutes to find him not guilty.

    A case that can be thrown out by a jury in less than half an hour in hindsight probably shouldn't have been pursued by the CPS in the first place, although it almost sounds like the judge believed the defendant.
  • skp20040skp20040 Posts: 66,872
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    Its just wrong, by anyone's standards, for the media to be doorstepping people before the police have even contacted them :mad:

    Its also wrong of anyone to go to the papers if they have given a statement to the police , especially if they are the alleged victim.
  • dodradedodrade Posts: 23,680
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    Apologies I meant the judge seemed to believe the accuser in his comments afterwards saying he was clearly scarred and very strangely said the verdict did not necessarily imply that sexual contact did not take place. Given Lancel denied any sexual contact outright and it took the jury half an hour to accquit him such an interpretation does not seem credible. It seems the judge believed him but the jury clearly did not, despite the judge trying to imply otherwise.
  • Romola_Des_LoupRomola_Des_Loup Posts: 3,152
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    dodrade wrote: »
    Apologies I meant the judge seemed to believe the accuser in his comments afterwards saying he was clearly scarred and very strangely said the verdict did not necessarily imply that sexual contact did not take place. Given Lancel denied any sexual contact outright and it took the jury half an hour to accquit him such an interpretation does not seem credible. It seems the judge believed him but the jury clearly did not, despite the judge trying to imply otherwise.
    Judge Clement Goldstone QC said: "The defendant was acquitted on the evidence, and rightly so, but it is important that the complainant, who is clearly scarred by an experience, should understand that the jury verdicts does not necessarily involve rejection of his account of a sexual encounter or encounters with the defendant.

    "It is a statement that the prosecution have failed to make the jury sure that abuse of the type alleged occurred during the period covered by the indictment and in particular before the complainant's 16th birthday, now more than 18 years ago."
    It sounds as if the illegality of the alleged acts depended on the complainants age at the time. In that case, the judge is quite correct. A "Not Guilty" veredict does not necessarily (and the judge does say 'not necessarily') mean that the jury disbelieved the complainant. Indeed, to his credit, he was honest in saying that he could not be certain when some encounters had happened.

    It is not established at all whether or not the encounters as described did happen.

    IF they occurred now, the age difference between the two, plus the fact that the older person could be argued to be in a position of power over the younger one (a 'mentor', as he said), MAY have led the jury to a different verdict if the encounters had happened more recently. However, the power balance between two parties is only a recent introduction to the law. You can't be tried for something that was not an offence at the time that it occurred so the prosecution would have had to concentrate solely on the age of the complainant in this case. .
  • dodradedodrade Posts: 23,680
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    It sounds as if the illegality of the alleged acts depended on the complainants age at the time. In that case, the judge is quite correct. A "Not Guilty" veredict does not necessarily (and the judge does say 'not necessarily') mean that the jury disbelieved the complainant. Indeed, to his credit, he was honest in saying that he could not be certain when some encounters had happened.

    It is not established at all whether or not the encounters as described did happen.

    IF they occurred now, the age difference between the two, plus the fact that the older person could be argued to be in a position of power over the younger one (a 'mentor', as he said), MAY have led the jury to a different verdict if the encounters had happened more recently. However, the power balance between two parties is only a recent introduction to the law. You can't be tried for something that was not an offence at the time that it occurred so the prosecution would have had to concentrate solely on the age of the complainant in this case. .

    Lancel's defence was not based on his accuser's age, he denied anything took place at all. For some reason (probably because he believed him) the judge has raised the issue of age as a red herring in the jury's verdict. The fact they accquited him in half an hour makes it very hard to draw any reasonable conclusion other than they simply did not believe his accuser's story.
  • skp20040skp20040 Posts: 66,872
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    dodrade wrote: »
    Lancel's defence was not based on his accuser's age, he denied anything took place at all. For some reason (probably because he believed him) the judge has raised the issue of age as a red herring in the jury's verdict. The fact they accquited him in half an hour makes it very hard to draw any reasonable conclusion other than they simply did not believe his accuser's story.

    I would imagine the fact that they apparently continued to socialise until relatively recently ( most abuse victims have no choice but to be near their abuser as they are young and they have no choice about where they go and often it is a family member or friend, adults have more choice about where they go ) , the issue of rent arrears owed by the complainant ( it would make you think would an abuse victim once an adult choose to rent from their abuser) and the fact that he did not make a complaint until encouraged to do so by a current girlfriend would have made a large impact on the jurys decision.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 87,224
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    New abuse trial guidelines
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22857257
    Includes pre-recording witness and victim statements, to reduce stress in court.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 87,224
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  • Romola_Des_LoupRomola_Des_Loup Posts: 3,152
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    dodrade wrote: »
    Lancel's defence was not based on his accuser's age, he denied anything took place at all. For some reason (probably because he believed him) the judge has raised the issue of age as a red herring in the jury's verdict. The fact they accquited him in half an hour makes it very hard to draw any reasonable conclusion other than they simply did not believe his accuser's story.

    It doesn't matter what his defence was. If the jury was not convinced that the boy was under 16 at the time of the encounters, they would be obliged to acquit, whatever they thought of Lancel's defence.
  • CryolemonCryolemon Posts: 8,670
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    Couldn't this make witness intimidation quite a lot easier?
  • nanscombenanscombe Posts: 16,588
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    I wonder if it could backfire and leave some jurors emotionally detached.

    It may just seem like watching an episode of a TV drama, actors on a screen performing from a script rather than real people.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 87,224
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    http://davidhencke.wordpress.com/2013/06/12/michael-gove-a-paedophiles-unwitting-friend/
    Michael Gove; the minister who doesn't want child sexual abuse in schools officially reported
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 87,224
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    Liberal Democrat leader Nick Clegg has said a report into how allegations of sexual harassment involving Lord Rennard were handled makes for "sobering reading".
    http://news.sky.com/story/1102803/lib-dems-criticised-in-sex-complaints-report
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 87,224
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    Guido has the Lib Dem's "Rennard Report" online
    http://order-order.com/2013/06/12/rennard-report-in-full/
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 21
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    Is this for real?

    "A police officer involved in Operation Yewtree will be a contestant in Big Brother"

    http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/view/320153/SAVILE-COP-IN-BB-HOUSE/
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