As someone who didn't pick up when reading the books that Renly and Loras were gay and in a relationship with each other (doh!):
It now makes sense to me why Margaery claimed prior to wedding Joffrey that her marriage to Renly hadn't been consumated - even though Cersei found that difficult to believe.
Sorry, couldn't resist putting that in spoiler tags as it occurs outside book 1. Obviously I'm still sensitive!!
There have been several little references to it through the books (I think someone listed them in the UK Pace thread), but nothing as blatant as the TV version of course.
Sansa is 11 in the books, 13 in the show. Joffrey is 13 in the books, and I think the only kid who hasn't been aged up (and I think the actor is about right age-wise?).
For some reason I thought they were 13 and 14 at the start.
Looking forwards to the Oberyn/Gregor fight, and to see how well they cast Melisandre, The Onion Knight, and Brienne
Don't forget what the Donal Noye says in book 2: Renly is copper to Robert's steel. Pretty and shiny to look at, but not much use. He might look like a young Robert, but he's not the same. He enters the tourney, but he's not very good - The crowd cheer because they like him, not because they think he's going to win. Nobody does.
The dislike of blood thing is new, but I don't think it's as dramatic a change as is being made out.
Good point, I'd forgotten that description. Renly still comes across as more flamboyant and dashing in the book however imo (Littlefinger quips that Renly spends more on clothing than half the ladies of the court). He also comes across as confident in the books (although it may be the confidence of youth, lacking in experience) whereas the Renly in the show seems self doubting.
Renly does not look right at all. He should be more bulky for how I picture Robert was. And his mannerisms are not quite right. He comes across personality wise more like Stannis than Robert at the moment. I don't think it is helped though that Robert is noticeably too old in the TV series.
Cersei is not quite right for me. Looks wise she is just not attractive enough, and personality wise I don't think she comes across as being how she is in the early books. They are being very generous to her, but also not portraying how calculating she is at this stage.
Theon is way off, coming across as far more negative than I perceived him. I think this may be as preparation for the later books.
Overall though they have done a fantastic job of casting. Arya (despite looking too old, but all the children do) and Tyrion are both displaying their personalities perfectly
Yes Renly does take after Stannis more in the show, without the coldness.
I agree with you about the casting of Cersei, Arya and Tyrion. I quite like Alfie Allen as Theon however. I think he looks right - and Theon was 19 at the start of book one, so he's about right in age lookswise. I don't like all the extra scenes they've inserted however where Theon's belittled or insulted by Robb, Maester Luwin and a character who doesn't even appear in the books - the prostitute. Maybe this has been put in to explain his later actions, although I think without this, his later actions are even more shocking when all he's received from Robb is friendship and nothing but kindness from those at Winterfell.
This might explain why he writes his children more grown up. I have a hard time imagining them at the age they are meant to be, apart from Sansa, but I also thought this was down the fact they they seem to have to grow up so fast in this world.
I have only read one and a quarter of the books so far so I can't judge the characters on anything I haven't read yet
When I read the books, I thought GRRM had based the characters' ages on a medieval model since the world he creates in the books seems to be medieval in nature. In the middle ages, the ages of the children and adults would have been quite correct for the activities they engage in. People got on with life early as no one expected to live much beyond thirty, what with wars, disease and famine. Thirty was considered middle aged. Boys training as knights would have started at age seven, as Bran did (Bran was seven in the first book, not ten, as in the series). Children of seven could be hung for stealing.
Ned is 35 in the first book. As his eldest son Robb is 14, and as Robb seems to have been born at the time of the battle of the Trident, that meant that Ned and Robert won their victory around the ages of 20 and 21 (if we assume Robert is about the same age as Ned), which again, was not unusual in the middle ages - people did things at a much younger age than now.
Girls of 13 were old enough to be married (as Daenerys is in book one) and girls of 11 betrothed (as Sansa is to Joffrey, age 12, in book one). I don't think there was the sentimentality around childhood that there is today and children worked from a young age - so Arya out on the road, fending for herself at age 9 or 10, could well be something that would happen in time of war.
Sansa is the same age isn't she? And Joffrey if anything looks younger than his age. Jaime and Cersei are also the same age, which is what starts to create the discrepancy as it makes the difference between his age and that of Ned/Robert more pronounced.
I can understand why they have aged the children (in particular Daenarys) but I think with some of them it is a risk of a marked effect on the plot and believability (Arya may not be boylike enough for example).
Yes indeed, confusingly, Jaime and Cersei remain much the same age as they were in the books, whereas 52 year old Sean Bean plays 35 year old Ned Stark and goodness knows how old Michelle Fairley who plays Caitlin is - I can't find a date of birth on the internet. At one point I thought they they looked more like Bran's grandparents than his parents - maybe the reproductive cycle goes on longer for women in Westeros! The youngest Stark child, Rickon, has been aged up from three to six, but even then, that's pushing it when you consider how old Michelle Fairley looks. Having said that, I'm getting used to her in the role now and she does act it very well I think (unlike the girl playing Sansa who just has too many 2011 teen mannerisms for my liking).
I don't like all the extra scenes they've inserted however where Theon's belittled or insulted by Robb, Maester Luwin and a character who doesn't even appear in the books - the prostitute. Maybe this has been put in to explain his later actions, although I think without this, his later actions are even more shocking when all he's received from Robb is friendship and nothing but kindness from those at Winterfell.
That's my thoughts on it too.
If you've not read all the books do not read the spoiler below.
And in the books Theon is potentially still around, so any change in how he is presented in the TV series could cause a conflict if/when he comes back in to the plot
When I read the books, I thought GRRM had based the characters' ages on a medieval model since the world he creates in the books seems to be medieval in nature. In the middle ages, the ages of the children and adults would have been quite correct for the activities they engage in. People got on with life early as no one expected to live much beyond thirty, what with wars, disease and famine. Thirty was considered middle aged. Boys training as knights would have started at age seven, as Bran did (Bran was seven in the first book, not ten, as in the series). Children of seven could be hung for stealing.
Ned is 35 in the first book. As his eldest son Robb is 14, and as Robb seems to have been born at the time of the battle of the Trident, that meant that Ned and Robert won their victory around the ages of 20 and 21 (if we assume Robert is about the same age as Ned), which again, was not unusual in the middle ages - people did things at a much younger age than now.
Girls of 13 were old enough to be married (as Daenerys is in book one) and girls of 11 betrothed (as Sansa is to Joffrey, age 12, in book one). I don't think there was the sentimentality around childhood that there is today and children worked from a young age - so Arya out on the road, fending for herself at age 9 or 10, could well be something that would happen in time of war.
Not only in times of war, and not only in the distant past. My grandfather was orphaned at seven, and took himself to a hiring fair, where he found employment on a farm. This was near Belfast in around 1900. These days he'd be in foster care.
My problem with the Stark children is not so much what they do, but how adult their thinking is, a problem you see in many books.
I watched episode seven last night, and the sex at the beginning made even me uncomfortable. I suppose they felt it was something to look at while we got some back story, but it was the nearest thing to porn I've ever seen on tv. When you consider what we could have spent eight minutes watching instead, I feel a bit cheated!
Thoros of Myr went with Beric Dondarrion when he was sent after Gregor Clegane but he wasn't featured in this week's episode so how will the character now be introduced???
I presume the same way as they will introduce the Blackfish when they need them. I just watched episode 7 and it was brilliant once again very true to the books. Ned comes accross as tragic and flawed as he should when turning away help, silly silly Ned.
Thoros of Myr went with Beric Dondarrion when he was sent after Gregor Clegane but he wasn't featured in this week's episode so how will the character now be introduced???
Wasn't Thoros introduced during the tournament for Eddard's ascension to being The Hand?
Wasn't Thoros introduced during the tournament for Eddard's ascension to being The Hand?
I'd forgotten about that as it's been a while since I read the books.
I've just had a quick look on imdb and there is no mention of Thoros so he hasn't appeared on screen..
Mind you, Beric and Thoros don't turn up again until Storm of Swords so the makers of the show have plenty of time to sort out who will play him.
Talking of casting David Ogden Stiers would be ideal to play Thoros and I've said many times before that Mark Strong would be the perfect Stannis Baratheon
Thoros of Myr went with Beric Dondarrion when he was sent after Gregor Clegane but he wasn't featured in this week's episode so how will the character now be introduced???
Beric took a 100 men with him, Thoros will just be among them if he is going to be in the show.
He has been name checked already*, Jaimie mentions him when talking about the seige of Pyke with Jory.
Another one of Berics 100 has to be one of Neds men so that some one can recognise
Arya when she meets up with the BWB.
*Another name check I liked from a few weeks ago was Old Nan mentioning Ser Duncan the Tall.
*Another name check I liked from a few weeks ago was Old Nan mentioning Ser Duncan the Tall.
I completely missed that, I might have to go back and watch it again, I love the Dunk and Egg stories.
Has it been definitively said that Brienne is related to Dunk, or is that just speculation?
I completely missed that, I might have to go back and watch it again, I love the Dunk and Egg stories.
Has it been definitively said that Brienne is related to Dunk, or is that just speculation?
Just speculation based on Dunks shield being on the Wall in Tarth and Briennes height of course.
The combination of physicality and acting ability needed for Brienne is highly unusual. I imagine it'll be a complete unknown.
I saw on one website and they discussed Miranda, that comedienne with her own sitcom. I really couldn't imagine her being able to act at all well, myself personally.
Anyone think that Renly and loras were miscast? With Renly he was meant to exude this charisma that draws people to him, he is meant to be witty and popular. But the actor who plays him lacks charisma, lack an aura. And he definitely didn't come across as vigorous, athletic or inspiring. Even his clothing lacked somewhat since he is suppose to be dazzling and remarkable in his dress too.
As for Loras he doesn't look handsome, he is kind of plain looking (but in this case beauty is in the eye of the beholder so I can forgive it) but also he has the body of a twelve year old, for someone so extremely talented with the sword you would have expected hard training for mainly years, this would have built up a physique (even if it were just lithe and toned) however Loras in the series looked like he hadn't so much as done a push up in his life.
Might be just me, but these actors just seem miscast slightly.
This is my first ever post on Digital Spy, and I joined specifically to talk about this series which has really got under my skin! I hope y'all don't mind me diving in.
I'm nearing the end of the second book, but I am a spoiler fiend so I know about the likes of the
Red Wedding
Favourite characters from the books: Bran, Tyrion, Sansa, Arya, sort of the Hound.
Favourite characters from the TV adaptation: Jon, Bran and weirdly Jaime.
Most looked-forward to chapters: Bran.
Most looked-forward to scene in the adaptation:
Red Wedding
Mainly for non-readers' responses!
Most disappointing thing about the TV adaptation: the low profile of the direwolves. Where were Summer and Grey Wind when Bran was attacked by Osha and friends? Where are Rickon and Shaggydog? Why is Ghost not constantly with Jon?
Favourite fan theory: L+R = J
Top of my own wishlist: Bran to become a dragonrider. I'm guessing they'll need three, and that they'll probably come from Dany, Jon, Tyrion, Arya and Bran. Or not - GRRM does like his surprises!
But it would be awesome for Bran to warg into a dragon and ride one.
I wasn't sure if I needed spoiler tags here and what to put them around. I hope the above is OK.
We actually see Ghost quite a bit in episode 7, he also barks joyfully. I'm ok with them making him actually make noise in the tv show, its one of those ideas that worked better on paper than on screen anyway. I'm actually loving a lot of the minor characters in the series. Jory Cassel, Ser Alliser Thorne, Samwell Tarly etc, their actors seem to have really nailed them.
Ghost barks? Actually, I think that's OK, as I'm sure the bit I've just read in ACoK has him howling.
I haven't seen episode 7 yet; great to have Jon back (he's been MiA for two episodes) - I was having severe withdrawal issues!
I really like(d) Jory and Sam too. The scene between Jaime and Jory was poignant.
I'm liking the scenes in the adaptation we never get due to the POV restrictions (which I like) of the books. The scene with Robert and Cersei was excellent. And I think this means we'll get a lot more Robb in the second series, and we won't just hear about his exploits via Catelyn, Sansa, Tyrion etc.
I have heard that they plan to expand Robbs role in season 2, probably to give a better comparison to the Kings landing events which should be led by Tyrion.
I hope its not spoiling anything to say that the taking the oaths scene is in episode 7, when Ghost runs out of the tunnel uthrough the wall is when he barks.
Actually talking about relativly second string characters I always liked Ser Davos Seaworth although I understand he's not popular among other fans so look forward to seeing him next season. Another character whose actor has knocked it out of the park is Iain Glenn as Ser Jorah Mormont, it makes me really hope to see him come back in the books just so we can get more scens from the actor. It will be interesting to see how the series influences the books. I think George has already said that natalie tena as Osha has inspired him to write her in more so we may see Rickon sooner rather than later.
The characters I'm most looking forward to seeing are Stannis and Melisandre. I love that all Baratheon brothers are so different. And Melisandre just freaks me out! Oh, and Meera and Jojen - just because they seem really good for Bran. And the Boltons - eek. OK, so there are still a fair few fantastic characters to cast.:)
Did I see from the ep 7 trailer that Charles Dance is Tywin? That's inspired casting.
I'm guessing we might see more of Rickon when Robb leaves Winterfell. One of my favourite scenes in the book is when Rickon throws a tantrum when his older brother leaves, after losing his parents. Very sad.
I forgot to mention in my first post that one other thing I love about the TV adaptation is that the Northerners are Yorkshiremen - love that! (Though Sansa and Arya, and sometimes Bran don't seem to be ...)
As a Yorkshireman I too loved that they were giving Yorkshire accents to the Northerners. One of Georges big motivation for the series was the wars of the Roses and House Stark as the house of York. I've always thought of the north as being Yorkshire northumberland, Cumbria and possibly the lowland scots, not sure on Highland scots, but they do have some clan style houses in te North, Wull, Harclay, Liddle etc
I heard the War of the Roses thing too - with the Lannisters being the Lancasters. Although I think it's more an inspiration than a template for ASoIaF, I do wonder if it has influenced the ending of the saga.
I wonder, for example, how Tyrion and Sansa's marriage will affect things, as the union of the York and Lancaster families effectively ended the War of the Roses
Comments
There have been several little references to it through the books (I think someone listed them in the UK Pace thread), but nothing as blatant as the TV version of course.
Thanks for that. I see they've done it!
Good point, I'd forgotten that description. Renly still comes across as more flamboyant and dashing in the book however imo (Littlefinger quips that Renly spends more on clothing than half the ladies of the court). He also comes across as confident in the books (although it may be the confidence of youth, lacking in experience) whereas the Renly in the show seems self doubting.
Yes Renly does take after Stannis more in the show, without the coldness.
I agree with you about the casting of Cersei, Arya and Tyrion. I quite like Alfie Allen as Theon however. I think he looks right - and Theon was 19 at the start of book one, so he's about right in age lookswise. I don't like all the extra scenes they've inserted however where Theon's belittled or insulted by Robb, Maester Luwin and a character who doesn't even appear in the books - the prostitute. Maybe this has been put in to explain his later actions, although I think without this, his later actions are even more shocking when all he's received from Robb is friendship and nothing but kindness from those at Winterfell.
When I read the books, I thought GRRM had based the characters' ages on a medieval model since the world he creates in the books seems to be medieval in nature. In the middle ages, the ages of the children and adults would have been quite correct for the activities they engage in. People got on with life early as no one expected to live much beyond thirty, what with wars, disease and famine. Thirty was considered middle aged. Boys training as knights would have started at age seven, as Bran did (Bran was seven in the first book, not ten, as in the series). Children of seven could be hung for stealing.
Ned is 35 in the first book. As his eldest son Robb is 14, and as Robb seems to have been born at the time of the battle of the Trident, that meant that Ned and Robert won their victory around the ages of 20 and 21 (if we assume Robert is about the same age as Ned), which again, was not unusual in the middle ages - people did things at a much younger age than now.
Girls of 13 were old enough to be married (as Daenerys is in book one) and girls of 11 betrothed (as Sansa is to Joffrey, age 12, in book one). I don't think there was the sentimentality around childhood that there is today and children worked from a young age - so Arya out on the road, fending for herself at age 9 or 10, could well be something that would happen in time of war.
Yes indeed, confusingly, Jaime and Cersei remain much the same age as they were in the books, whereas 52 year old Sean Bean plays 35 year old Ned Stark and goodness knows how old Michelle Fairley who plays Caitlin is - I can't find a date of birth on the internet. At one point I thought they they looked more like Bran's grandparents than his parents - maybe the reproductive cycle goes on longer for women in Westeros! The youngest Stark child, Rickon, has been aged up from three to six, but even then, that's pushing it when you consider how old Michelle Fairley looks. Having said that, I'm getting used to her in the role now and she does act it very well I think (unlike the girl playing Sansa who just has too many 2011 teen mannerisms for my liking).
If you've not read all the books do not read the spoiler below.
Not only in times of war, and not only in the distant past. My grandfather was orphaned at seven, and took himself to a hiring fair, where he found employment on a farm. This was near Belfast in around 1900. These days he'd be in foster care.
My problem with the Stark children is not so much what they do, but how adult their thinking is, a problem you see in many books.
I watched episode seven last night, and the sex at the beginning made even me uncomfortable. I suppose they felt it was something to look at while we got some back story, but it was the nearest thing to porn I've ever seen on tv. When you consider what we could have spent eight minutes watching instead, I feel a bit cheated!
My dream choice for Melisandre would be Mad Men's Christina Hendricks...
I can't think of anyone for Davos & Brienne.
I'd forgotten about that as it's been a while since I read the books.
I've just had a quick look on imdb and there is no mention of Thoros so he hasn't appeared on screen..
Mind you, Beric and Thoros don't turn up again until Storm of Swords so the makers of the show have plenty of time to sort out who will play him.
Talking of casting David Ogden Stiers would be ideal to play Thoros and I've said many times before that Mark Strong would be the perfect Stannis Baratheon
He has been name checked already*, Jaimie mentions him when talking about the seige of Pyke with Jory.
Another one of Berics 100 has to be one of Neds men so that some one can recognise
*Another name check I liked from a few weeks ago was Old Nan mentioning Ser Duncan the Tall.
I completely missed that, I might have to go back and watch it again, I love the Dunk and Egg stories.
Has it been definitively said that Brienne is related to Dunk, or is that just speculation?
Thanks, I'm always missing stuf
I saw on one website and they discussed Miranda, that comedienne with her own sitcom. I really couldn't imagine her being able to act at all well, myself personally.
Anyone think that Renly and loras were miscast? With Renly he was meant to exude this charisma that draws people to him, he is meant to be witty and popular. But the actor who plays him lacks charisma, lack an aura. And he definitely didn't come across as vigorous, athletic or inspiring. Even his clothing lacked somewhat since he is suppose to be dazzling and remarkable in his dress too.
As for Loras he doesn't look handsome, he is kind of plain looking (but in this case beauty is in the eye of the beholder so I can forgive it) but also he has the body of a twelve year old, for someone so extremely talented with the sword you would have expected hard training for mainly years, this would have built up a physique (even if it were just lithe and toned) however Loras in the series looked like he hadn't so much as done a push up in his life.
Might be just me, but these actors just seem miscast slightly.
This is my first ever post on Digital Spy, and I joined specifically to talk about this series which has really got under my skin! I hope y'all don't mind me diving in.
I'm nearing the end of the second book, but I am a spoiler fiend
Favourite characters from the books: Bran, Tyrion, Sansa, Arya, sort of the Hound.
Favourite characters from the TV adaptation: Jon, Bran and weirdly Jaime.
Most looked-forward to chapters: Bran.
Most looked-forward to scene in the adaptation:
Most disappointing thing about the TV adaptation: the low profile of the direwolves. Where were Summer and Grey Wind when Bran was attacked by Osha and friends? Where are Rickon and Shaggydog? Why is Ghost not constantly with Jon?
Favourite fan theory: L+R = J
Top of my own wishlist: Bran to become a dragonrider. I'm guessing they'll need three, and that they'll probably come from Dany, Jon, Tyrion, Arya and Bran. Or not - GRRM does like his surprises!
I wasn't sure if I needed spoiler tags here and what to put them around. I hope the above is OK.
I haven't seen episode 7 yet; great to have Jon back (he's been MiA for two episodes) - I was having severe withdrawal issues!
I really like(d) Jory and Sam too. The scene between Jaime and Jory was poignant.
I'm liking the scenes in the adaptation we never get due to the POV restrictions (which I like) of the books. The scene with Robert and Cersei was excellent. And I think this means we'll get a lot more Robb in the second series, and we won't just hear about his exploits via Catelyn, Sansa, Tyrion etc.
I hope its not spoiling anything to say that the taking the oaths scene is in episode 7, when Ghost runs out of the tunnel uthrough the wall is when he barks.
Actually talking about relativly second string characters I always liked Ser Davos Seaworth although I understand he's not popular among other fans so look forward to seeing him next season. Another character whose actor has knocked it out of the park is Iain Glenn as Ser Jorah Mormont, it makes me really hope to see him come back in the books just so we can get more scens from the actor. It will be interesting to see how the series influences the books. I think George has already said that natalie tena as Osha has inspired him to write her in more so we may see Rickon sooner rather than later.
Did I see from the ep 7 trailer that Charles Dance is Tywin? That's inspired casting.
I'm guessing we might see more of Rickon when Robb leaves Winterfell. One of my favourite scenes in the book is when Rickon throws a tantrum when his older brother leaves, after losing his parents. Very sad.
I forgot to mention in my first post that one other thing I love about the TV adaptation is that the Northerners are Yorkshiremen - love that! (Though Sansa and Arya, and sometimes Bran don't seem to be ...)