That misses the point. My aunt or mum wouldn't know how to find those. You shouldn't have to go askign around Google for the basics of an operating system. The silly thing in Win8 is that a small visual cue (coming in 8.1) is all that was needed.
Having not used Win8 at first boot though, I was unaware of the tutorial. Certainly OSX does not have one and most certainly needs it. And both should have how tos within the system itself.
Well if the user bothered to look, Windows 8 goes through a tutorial before the first login. Honestly it's not rocket science, I think the backlash is more about people being resistant to change. The OS can't move forward without changes.
Microsoft can't really be blamed because they do tell the user how to navigate the OS on first boot. It's up to the user whether they bother to take notice of that.
Every OEM Windows install asks the user to create Recovery Media at the first login too, but most people ignore it.
Well if the user bothered to look, Windows 8 goes through a tutorial before the first login. Honestly it's not rocket science,
Wow, that is one hell of a tutorial, it must have took all of 30 seconds to come up with that idea.
Stick your mouse pointer in a corner and you will get something pop up, you will have no idea what it is that pops up, but it is there.
TBH, it is those stupid things that pop out that gets on my nerves more than the modern UI.
It reminds me of Windows 95 when we used to hide the taskbar due to lack of space on the screen and you get to close to it and out it pops.
I think the backlash is more about people being resistant to change. The OS can't move forward without changes.
There is change and there is change. windows 95 was a complete change from 3.1, since the majority of people have never used 3.1 one it was not a big thing. Since Windows 95, windows have improved, well sometimes, but all the way through to windows 7, it had the same style of working. you had a task bar and a start menu, and windows/folders/directories that you can find your files in. So it is pretty easy for almost any person to step from windows 95 to windows 7 to do basic things. you sit this person down in front of windows 8 and it is a different ball game.
Microsoft can't really be blamed because they do tell the user how to navigate the OS on first boot. It's up to the user whether they bother to take notice of that.
Up to MS to make a better job of it to be honest. No doubt if I used windows 8 enough without a start menu I could get used to it, but it is still a pain to use.
You don't like adding icons to your desktop? I thought that's what the desktop was for.
I like a minimal amount on my desktop, i have seen some desktops that is covered with Icons, how on earth do they find anything?
My desktop got one icon, for the rubbish bin and that is it, What is the point in having icons on the desktop when it is covered with what ever software you are using?
My icons are either on the task bar for stuff I use a lot or stuff I use now and again is pinned onto the start menu,
I like a minimal amount on my desktop, i have seen some desktops that is covered with Icons, how on earth do they find anything?
My desktop got one icon, for the rubbish bin and that is it, What is the point in having icons on the desktop when it is covered with what ever software you are using?
My icons are either on the task bar for stuff I use a lot or stuff I use now and again is pinned onto the start menu,
By looking through the icons shortcuts. Everyone has their own way of doing things, but having a lot of desktop shortcuts wouldn't bother me at all. The software window would be above the desktop shortcuts.
By looking through the icons shortcuts. Everyone has their own way of doing things, but having a lot of desktop shortcuts wouldn't bother me at all. The software window would be above the desktop shortcuts.
I don't have shortcut icons all over my Mac desktop, why should the Windows environment be any different?
My desktop got one icon, for the rubbish bin and that is it, ,
You can add the recycle bin to the menu so the desktop is empty. Works with classic shell in windows 8. I like my desktop empty, with a nice background.
If it makes it so hard to do things that are basic computer functions, then there's something BADLY wrong with it
It's not 'hard' . I think one of the main problems is that people have got used to not having to think about anything....Even in windows 7 the 'windows key' opened the start menu. I think that was a basic computer function...!!;)
It's not 'hard' . I think one of the main problems is that people have got used to not having to think about anything....Even in windows 7 the 'windows key' opened the start menu. I think that was a basic computer function...!!;)
The Windows 8 Windows key doesn't open the start menu unless you set it to in Classic Shell etc. It opens one of two screenfuls of silly little squares, most of which contain mostly pretty but meaningless icons, sorted in no obvious logical order and requiring the multiple use of an arrow key to see them all even on an HD screen.
I've just tried it (as I didn't set Classic Shell to block it) and my eye was drawn to such Start Screen gems as "Register Sony Direct X Audio...", "Quality Settings", "Mouse Healthy Computing", "Support Tool" and "Generate a Static OpenVPN key". The first I have no interest in, the next three I have no idea what they even are or what programs, O/S or utility they relate to, and the last one - what the hell is it even doing on my main Start Screen? :eek: It's three levels down on the Start Menu, where it should be! I certainly didn't choose to have them there and the All Apps screens (three of them!) is even worse.
All the above is taken care of automatically in the Classic Shell Start Menu - no action required by me. Roll on 8.2 and hopefully The Return Of The Built-In Start Menu.
That misses the point. My aunt or mum wouldn't know how to find those. You shouldn't have to go askign around Google for the basics of an operating system. The silly thing in Win8 is that a small visual cue (coming in 8.1) is all that was needed.
Having not used Win8 at first boot though, I was unaware of the tutorial. Certainly OSX does not have one and most certainly needs it. And both should have how tos within the system itself.
I got a smart phone last year, totaly new to them.
Didnt get any info about how to use it, had to find my own way around it, same with sky box, mp3 player, cordless phone, still cant use all the functions on that So its not just PCs you have to learn how to use.
By looking through the icons shortcuts. Everyone has their own way of doing things, but having a lot of desktop shortcuts wouldn't bother me at all. The software window would be above the desktop shortcuts.
I see desktops where ever square inch of it has a icon on. I also use the G keys on my keyboard, i have a Logitech gaming keyboard, with extra keys for gaming, but since I don't play games, I use the key too launch software and for short cuts in Vegas and other software.
You can add the recycle bin to the menu so the desktop is empty. Works with classic shell in windows 8. I like my desktop empty, with a nice background.
I know, but I don't mind the rubbish bin on the desktop, not that I use it that often anyway.
Good point about Win95. To me that was a much more radical change of OS from Win3.1.... I don't remember much in the way of a manual or tutorials with it. And no Google or internet to look up... Wasn't there loads of complaints when it first came out too..?
Good point about Win95. To me that was a much more radical change of OS from Win3.1.... I don't remember much in the way of a manual or tutorials with it. And no Google or internet to look up... Wasn't there loads of complaints when it first came out too..?
The difference then was not many people in the home had a Pc then. Amigas and the Atari ST was still around and people was changing from them to windows, so they had the learning curve anyway.
These days, there are millions of people that have been using windows XP and have got used to the way it works and now MS says, we are going to do it differently.
When I first saw windows 8, I knew then it was a mistake and it would be another Vista, ok Tablets are also making a difference. But people who are buying a windows based PC either wants windows 7 or sticking a start menu on almost as soon as they get it home.
The difference then was not many people in the home had a Pc then. Amigas and the Atari ST was still around and people was changing from them to windows, so they had the learning curve anyway.
These days, there are millions of people that have been using windows XP and have got used to the way it works and now MS says, we are going to do it differently.
When I first saw windows 8, I knew then it was a mistake and it would be another Vista, ok Tablets are also making a difference. But people who are buying a windows based PC either wants windows 7 or sticking a start menu on almost as soon as they get it home.
Okay... although as one of those that went through that the 3.1 to 95 upgrade, I didn't find the differences that hard to learn.
And the changes in 8.1 will mean that people need never go into the metro interface if they don't want to. They can stick to the familiar desktop interface.
I also wouldn't say it is like Vista... Vista had big performance issues when released.... it didn't really seem optimised and there were a lot of bugs in key functions. I've seen no issues int the same in 8.... apart from the poor sales... which is as much to do with the economy and software specs not changing much over the last 5 years
The difference then was not many people in the home had a Pc then. Amigas and the Atari ST was still around and people was changing from them to windows, so they had the learning curve anyway.
These days, there are millions of people that have been using windows XP and have got used to the way it works and now MS says, we are going to do it differently.
When I first saw windows 8, I knew then it was a mistake and it would be another Vista, ok Tablets are also making a difference. But people who are buying a windows based PC either wants windows 7 or sticking a start menu on almost as soon as they get it home.
But arent these Win8 'debates' a selfish, short termed view by some people, or should that be 'Generation'.:)
The option for you and others is there to set it up as you think a ''PC'' should be.
But you have to think of the future, the kids of today are a totally different breed.
in 10-20-30 yrs time a 'PC' wont look anything like what we are used to today in there present form, if they exist at all :eek:
Like it or not, change is happening, we cant stop it.
Thanks to change, we have what we have today.
PC sales are dropping year on year as tablets and laptops eat into the market. Most folk just don't need a PC; most are using computers for basic stuff like email and facebook. I'm still running programmes that need power and a big screen but if I'm honest my Surface Pro or Vaio fill 90% of my needs.
Its not hard to switch to W8 but some just like to moan more than others I think. Look through any W8 thread and you'll see the same small core of posters hell bent on moaning about it; they switch to diatribe mode and repeat the same old stuff time after time about how they are right and those of us happy with W8 are wrong...they are a tiresome cadre to be honest.
And the changes in 8.1 will mean that people need never go into the metro interface if they don't want to. They can stick to the familiar desktop interface.
Have you even seen W8.1? You press the Start button on the desktop and you get to the Start screen. Of course you see the Metro interface! The only way to avoid it is to install a 3rd party utility.
PC sales are dropping year on year as tablets and laptops eat into the market. Most folk just don't need a PC; most are using computers for basic stuff like email and facebook. I'm still running programmes that need power and a big screen but if I'm honest my Surface Pro or Vaio fill 90% of my needs.
Its not hard to switch to W8 but some just like to moan more than others I think. Look through any W8 thread and you'll see the same small core of posters hell bent on moaning about it; they switch to diatribe mode and repeat the same old stuff time after time about how they are right and those of us happy with W8 are wrong...they are a tiresome cadre to be honest.
Exactly, just look at smart TVs http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QkS9bzHnT-w
Its even got voice control, you dont even have to touch anything :eek:
Pair that with a smart phone, tablet ect, the ''PC'' as we know it is becoming a rare thing for the future.
Yes of course we will need something for special stuff, but the kids of today wont want it.
Hence Microsoft looking ahead.
Some people have a very narrow outlook, the PC hasnt really been out that long, and look what its achieved.
PC sales are dropping year on year as tablets and laptops eat into the market. Most folk just don't need a PC; most are using computers for basic stuff like email and facebook. I'm still running programmes that need power and a big screen but if I'm honest my Surface Pro or Vaio fill 90% of my needs.
Yes we all know that tablets are eating into the market and i have said for years that some people have over powered machines to do simple things. I know many people who don't need a massive desktop but they still need a decent size screen and something decent to input the data.
I have no need for a tablet, TBH, I don't really want a large tower either, but I need it for hard drives and storage.
But what annoys me about some people with tablets is that they have got rid of their old computers, printers and other things and then all of a sudden remember they need to type and print something out and who do they come to?
So I tell them to go to the library.
Its not hard to switch to W8 but some just like to moan more than others I think. Look through any W8 thread and you'll see the same small core of posters hell bent on moaning about it; they switch to diatribe mode and repeat the same old stuff time after time about how they are right and those of us happy with W8 are wrong...they are a tiresome cadre to be honest.
I never said I was right and i never said you was wrong, you are happy with the Metro then fine, but some of us are not and we think that MS should have provided a way to boot to desktop and provide a start menu for people who don't want or need big square tiles.
They have seen sense to boot to desktop, but there is still no launcher, they still want people to use their store and stay on a screen which looks like a child's first computer.
MS have lost it to be honest, simple as that, they thought they would get into the mobile market and dominate like they did in the desktop market, but it did not happen, because they have competition now, competition that have loads of money behind them and to be honest are doing things better than MS is.
Just a shame we did not have this competition in the desktop market years ago.
Have you even seen W8.1? You press the Start button on the desktop and you get to the Start screen. Of course you see the Metro interface! The only way to avoid it is to install a 3rd party utility.
Nope - havent had a chance to look at it yet. So the start button does the same as the windows key but slower?
Yeah, Msoft could have handled the people who just dont want you deal with Metro better... But would you change to Linux or OS X because of it?
Comments
That misses the point. My aunt or mum wouldn't know how to find those. You shouldn't have to go askign around Google for the basics of an operating system. The silly thing in Win8 is that a small visual cue (coming in 8.1) is all that was needed.
Having not used Win8 at first boot though, I was unaware of the tutorial. Certainly OSX does not have one and most certainly needs it. And both should have how tos within the system itself.
Every OEM Windows install asks the user to create Recovery Media at the first login too, but most people ignore it.
Wow, that is one hell of a tutorial, it must have took all of 30 seconds to come up with that idea.
Stick your mouse pointer in a corner and you will get something pop up, you will have no idea what it is that pops up, but it is there.
TBH, it is those stupid things that pop out that gets on my nerves more than the modern UI.
It reminds me of Windows 95 when we used to hide the taskbar due to lack of space on the screen and you get to close to it and out it pops.
There is change and there is change. windows 95 was a complete change from 3.1, since the majority of people have never used 3.1 one it was not a big thing. Since Windows 95, windows have improved, well sometimes, but all the way through to windows 7, it had the same style of working. you had a task bar and a start menu, and windows/folders/directories that you can find your files in. So it is pretty easy for almost any person to step from windows 95 to windows 7 to do basic things. you sit this person down in front of windows 8 and it is a different ball game.
Up to MS to make a better job of it to be honest. No doubt if I used windows 8 enough without a start menu I could get used to it, but it is still a pain to use.
I like a minimal amount on my desktop, i have seen some desktops that is covered with Icons, how on earth do they find anything?
My desktop got one icon, for the rubbish bin and that is it, What is the point in having icons on the desktop when it is covered with what ever software you are using?
My icons are either on the task bar for stuff I use a lot or stuff I use now and again is pinned onto the start menu,
By looking through the icons shortcuts. Everyone has their own way of doing things, but having a lot of desktop shortcuts wouldn't bother me at all. The software window would be above the desktop shortcuts.
I don't have shortcut icons all over my Mac desktop, why should the Windows environment be any different?
You can add the recycle bin to the menu so the desktop is empty. Works with classic shell in windows 8. I like my desktop empty, with a nice background.
It's not 'hard'
I still do that on Win 7
The Windows 8 Windows key doesn't open the start menu unless you set it to in Classic Shell etc. It opens one of two screenfuls of silly little squares, most of which contain mostly pretty but meaningless icons, sorted in no obvious logical order and requiring the multiple use of an arrow key to see them all even on an HD screen.
I've just tried it (as I didn't set Classic Shell to block it) and my eye was drawn to such Start Screen gems as "Register Sony Direct X Audio...", "Quality Settings", "Mouse Healthy Computing", "Support Tool" and "Generate a Static OpenVPN key". The first I have no interest in, the next three I have no idea what they even are or what programs, O/S or utility they relate to, and the last one - what the hell is it even doing on my main Start Screen? :eek: It's three levels down on the Start Menu, where it should be! I certainly didn't choose to have them there and the All Apps screens (three of them!) is even worse.
All the above is taken care of automatically in the Classic Shell Start Menu - no action required by me. Roll on 8.2 and hopefully The Return Of The Built-In Start Menu.
I got a smart phone last year, totaly new to them.
Didnt get any info about how to use it, had to find my own way around it, same with sky box, mp3 player, cordless phone, still cant use all the functions on that
I see desktops where ever square inch of it has a icon on. I also use the G keys on my keyboard, i have a Logitech gaming keyboard, with extra keys for gaming, but since I don't play games, I use the key too launch software and for short cuts in Vegas and other software.
I know, but I don't mind the rubbish bin on the desktop, not that I use it that often anyway.
I tried that again a while back, but it annoyed me.
The difference then was not many people in the home had a Pc then. Amigas and the Atari ST was still around and people was changing from them to windows, so they had the learning curve anyway.
These days, there are millions of people that have been using windows XP and have got used to the way it works and now MS says, we are going to do it differently.
When I first saw windows 8, I knew then it was a mistake and it would be another Vista, ok Tablets are also making a difference. But people who are buying a windows based PC either wants windows 7 or sticking a start menu on almost as soon as they get it home.
Okay... although as one of those that went through that the 3.1 to 95 upgrade, I didn't find the differences that hard to learn.
And the changes in 8.1 will mean that people need never go into the metro interface if they don't want to. They can stick to the familiar desktop interface.
I also wouldn't say it is like Vista... Vista had big performance issues when released.... it didn't really seem optimised and there were a lot of bugs in key functions. I've seen no issues int the same in 8.... apart from the poor sales... which is as much to do with the economy and software specs not changing much over the last 5 years
But arent these Win8 'debates' a selfish, short termed view by some people, or should that be 'Generation'.:)
The option for you and others is there to set it up as you think a ''PC'' should be.
But you have to think of the future, the kids of today are a totally different breed.
in 10-20-30 yrs time a 'PC' wont look anything like what we are used to today in there present form, if they exist at all :eek:
Like it or not, change is happening, we cant stop it.
Thanks to change, we have what we have today.
Its not hard to switch to W8 but some just like to moan more than others I think. Look through any W8 thread and you'll see the same small core of posters hell bent on moaning about it; they switch to diatribe mode and repeat the same old stuff time after time about how they are right and those of us happy with W8 are wrong...they are a tiresome cadre to be honest.
Have you even seen W8.1? You press the Start button on the desktop and you get to the Start screen. Of course you see the Metro interface! The only way to avoid it is to install a 3rd party utility.
Exactly, just look at smart TVs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QkS9bzHnT-w
Its even got voice control, you dont even have to touch anything :eek:
Pair that with a smart phone, tablet ect, the ''PC'' as we know it is becoming a rare thing for the future.
Yes of course we will need something for special stuff, but the kids of today wont want it.
Hence Microsoft looking ahead.
Some people have a very narrow outlook, the PC hasnt really been out that long, and look what its achieved.
Yes we all know that tablets are eating into the market and i have said for years that some people have over powered machines to do simple things. I know many people who don't need a massive desktop but they still need a decent size screen and something decent to input the data.
I have no need for a tablet, TBH, I don't really want a large tower either, but I need it for hard drives and storage.
But what annoys me about some people with tablets is that they have got rid of their old computers, printers and other things and then all of a sudden remember they need to type and print something out and who do they come to?
So I tell them to go to the library.
I never said I was right and i never said you was wrong, you are happy with the Metro then fine, but some of us are not and we think that MS should have provided a way to boot to desktop and provide a start menu for people who don't want or need big square tiles.
They have seen sense to boot to desktop, but there is still no launcher, they still want people to use their store and stay on a screen which looks like a child's first computer.
MS have lost it to be honest, simple as that, they thought they would get into the mobile market and dominate like they did in the desktop market, but it did not happen, because they have competition now, competition that have loads of money behind them and to be honest are doing things better than MS is.
Just a shame we did not have this competition in the desktop market years ago.
Nope - havent had a chance to look at it yet. So the start button does the same as the windows key but slower?
Yeah, Msoft could have handled the people who just dont want you deal with Metro better... But would you change to Linux or OS X because of it?