Im just not convinced that a watch is the same beasty as a phone/tablet.
Pebble will stay fairly niche, as will metawatch, liveview, I'm watch, cuckoo etc etc.
Apple wont want a niche product. Apple will want to sell millions. Do i want the same thing on my wrist as 25% of my colleagues ? it would be a bit like 25% of the office wearing the same T-Shirt, or shoes. Sounds a bit too uniformy for me.
Im just not convinced that a watch is the same beasty as a phone/tablet.
Pebble will stay fairly niche, as will metawatch, liveview, I'm watch, cuckoo etc etc.
Apple wont want a niche product. Apple will want to sell millions. Do i want the same thing on my wrist as 25% of my colleagues ? it would be a bit like 25% of the office wearing the same T-Shirt, or shoes. Sounds a bit too uniformy for me.
Naturally they won't have the appeal of phones/tablets. They will essentially just be accessories. But they can get around them all looking the same by having a large range of colours (bit like the Swatches of years ago) and third parties flogging straps etc. However this will always be relatively niche. But if it keeps punters within the ecosystem and the app stores it may well be worth while. All speculation at this stage obviously.
Mp3 players, Smart phones and tablets are the only real products that apple came into and managed to (often temporarily) corner the market ....
They have had many more attempts that flopped.
I can see an iwatch selling a lot ..... But mostly to the same people who will buy anything from Apple (and I'm not having a dig at anyone in particular before anyone shouts !!!).
So number 2 on that list, the second worst product Apple ever launched, is iTunes - it's only the biggest/most successful digital media distribution service ever :rolleyes:
As for the rest of them, they're either really old and pre-date Apple's rise to their current position or they're debatable at best.
I can see an iwatch selling a lot ..... But mostly to the same people who will buy anything from Apple (and I'm not having a dig at anyone in particular before anyone shouts !!!).
I don't own a single Apple product, I've owned literally one in my entire life but an Apple smartwatch is something I would consider (assuming it would be compatible with my Android handset(s)).
I think a lot of people who are interested in smartwatches but put off by the limited capabilities of the existing options would seriously consider one from Apple.
As for the rest of them, they're either really old and pre-date Apple's rise to their current position or they're debatable at best.
I think that's partly due to the date of the article. How could it miss Apple Maps? The worst product apple have rolled out for a long time....
I don't own a single Apple product, I've owned literally one in my entire life but an Apple smartwatch is something I would consider (assuming it would be compatible with my Android handset(s)).
Good luck with that Apple don't 'do' compatibility with Android. They seem to have some sort of perverse pride in this.
I think that's partly due to the date of the article. How could it miss Apple Maps? The worst product apple have rolled out for a long time....
That's a fair point but I would say there's a difference between a free service like Apple Maps and a product people pay for.
Apple Maps was shoddy but did it realistically cost them any sales?
That's a fair point but I would say there's a difference between a free service like Apple Maps and a product people pay for.
I'm not sure that there is in this case. Several free/software products made that list.
Apple Maps was shoddy but did it realistically cost them any sales?
It certainly didn't bring them close to ruin, but it absolutely affected them and cost them sales. What Apple Maps did, very publicly, was destroy any semblance of Apple software being head and shoulders above the competition. More and more, people don't think, "hey I want the best phone, I'll get an iphone" (as quite a few people did around the time of iphone 4), spurned on by marketing messages such as "it just works". Most savvy customers know that the playing field is a lot more level now, they're weighing up their options more, asking on forums "which phone should I buy?" and being more discerning.
Not JUST because of maps of course, but it helped nudge Apple from a company with aspiring products to a company to make fun of.
Yeah, it'll only be compatible with iPods, iPhones and iPads. Potentially risky, but the install base of these products is so huge now that they can probably make it a success by using this strategy. Hopefully that also means it'll integrate with iOS really well too. Still not sure I'm interested though!
Yeah, it'll only be compatible with iPods, iPhones and iPads. Potentially risky, but the install base of these products is so huge now that they can probably make it a success by using this strategy. Hopefully that also means it'll integrate with iOS really well too. Still not sure I'm interested though!
It can be a successful product, but ensures anyone with an android phone will not buy one.
But open standards and never been Apples thing before so they wont give a shit as usual.
No.
Apple are the biggest consumer electronics company in the world, a company that size doesn't do 'niche'.
So number 2 on that list, the second worst product Apple ever launched, is iTunes - it's only the biggest/most successful digital media distribution service ever :rolleyes:
As for the rest of them, they're either really old and pre-date Apple's rise to their current position or they're debatable at best.
Since when did one company need to corner a market for the market itself not to be a niche?
Not lately.
I don't own a single Apple product, I've owned literally one in my entire life but an Apple smartwatch is something I would consider (assuming it would be compatible with my Android handset(s)).
I think a lot of people who are interested in smartwatches but put off by the limited capabilities of the existing options would seriously consider one from Apple.
That was one example of an article. Not everything Apple has done has turned to gold. Apple TV is a fairly recent example of something that hasnt set the world on fire surely ???
You seem to have taken it a little personally. It certainly wasnt meant to offend. Its just a fact that Apple have had some things that have fallen by the wayside just like any other firm.
That was one example of an article. Not everything Apple has done has turned to gold. Apple TV is a fairly recent example of something that hasnt set the world on fire surely ???
You seem to have taken it a little personally. It certainly wasnt meant to offend. Its just a fact that Apple have had some things that have fallen by the wayside just like any other firm.
Apple TV has been around for quite a while. Started off as Jobsian hobby project, but sales have been fairly decent since they made it far more affordable a couple of years ago. If they sell as many watches as Apple TV's I think they'll be pretty pleased.
Apple TV has been around for quite a while. Started off as Jobsian hobby project, but sales have been fairly decent since they made it far more affordable a couple of years ago. If they sell as many watches as Apple TV's I think they'll be pretty pleased.
well we are going to argue over 'niche' then. Its pretty rare to see an Apple TV unit - 4 million worldwide is tiny compared to Freeview boxes or Tivos etc so I would still say its niche.
And compared with iPhones and iPads and iPods its very small fry.
If Apple sell only 4 million iWatches worldwide in a year my guess is that the press and the shareholders would see it, rightly or wrongly, as a failure.
^^^
Agreed. They will be looking to sell far more than that. Remember, they sold almost 50 million iPhones in a single quarter. There must be hundreds of millions of operational iOS devices now, so 4 million in a year would be really small.
My gut feeling is that, if launched, it will be pretty successful but obviously not to iPhone and iPad level.
Oh, Apple HiFi is another example of a product that flopped.
I'm not sure that there is in this case. Several free/software products made that list.
Yeah but that list had absolutely nothing to do with my post that stuart was replying to.
Apple Maps may be a terrible piece of software but that's not the same as being a niche product, which is the point he was trying to rebut.
And a number of the products on that list certainly don't fall into the niche product category, no matter how badly they sold.
More and more, people don't think, "hey I want the best phone, I'll get an iphone" (as quite a few people did around the time of iphone 4), spurned on by marketing messages such as "it just works". Most savvy customers know that the playing field is a lot more level now, they're weighing up their options more, asking on forums "which phone should I buy?" and being more discerning.
I'm not sure that there was ever a time when the iPhone sold because it was objectively better than the competition.
Spec-wise, about the only time that you could've argued that Apple pushed the market forward was the with increase in screen resolution that the iPhone4 brought about but even that was part of an on-going trend in increasing resolutions that has subsequently left Apple behind.
The Apple Maps issue will have little-to-no long-term impact on them IMO.
That was one example of an article. Not everything Apple has done has turned to gold. Apple TV is a fairly recent example of something that hasnt set the world on fire surely ???
Of course not everything they've launched has been wildly successful but it's meaningless to look at failures dating back 20, 30 years - the world has changed drastically since then and so have Apple.
Looking at Apple in it's current iteration (which can basically be traced back to the iPod), they've had far more successes than failures.
You seem to have taken it a little personally. It certainly wasnt meant to offend. Its just a fact that Apple have had some things that have fallen by the wayside just like any other firm.
Actually, not at all.
I only used myself as an example about potential customers because I can't speak for anyone else.
well we are going to argue over 'niche' then. Its pretty rare to see an Apple TV unit - 4 million worldwide is tiny compared to Freeview boxes or Tivos etc so I would still say its niche.
Those figures are rather out-of-date - they sold 2 million in the last quarter alone.
Yes the figures are lower than Freeview boxes or anything similar that is required to use a particular service but the market for such devices is growing with the likes of Boxee and Roku and so on and Apple seem to be very much holding their own in it. In fact, if anything, they will have pushed the market forward because there will be a number of people who have purchased an Apple TV who would never have purchased a similar device from a different manufacturer.
If Apple sell only 4 million iWatches worldwide in a year my guess is that the press and the shareholders would see it, rightly or wrongly, as a failure.
They probably would but I'd be shocked if they sold that few.
Whilst this is in a number of ways a new product category for Apple, at the same time it's not at all - it's an iPhone/iPad accessory, there's already a large and proven market for them.
well we are going to argue over 'niche' then. Its pretty rare to see an Apple TV unit - 4 million worldwide is tiny compared to Freeview boxes or Tivos etc so I would still say its niche.
And compared with iPhones and iPads and iPods its very small fry.
If Apple sell only 4 million iWatches worldwide in a year my guess is that the press and the shareholders would see it, rightly or wrongly, as a failure.
LOL there is no need to argue over anything - there's a custom made thread already for that - where the merits or not of the word 'retina' are still being argued over two years too late - I;m rather hoping this thread doesn't head in that direction.
Besides, I already agreed with you in earlier post that accessories will always be niche compared to smartphones and tablets. The point I've been making is even with a few million sales it's worth Apple supporting to keep people in the eco-system, and using the iTunes/app store. Apple TV is actually a good example. It is essentially an iTunes store add on, with the added ability of being able to wirelessly stream media or mirror screens from other Apple devices/computers.
Pebble will stay fairly niche, as will metawatch, liveview, I'm watch, cuckoo etc etc.
For me the potential killer feature is the NFC. It could be used for payments, for two-factor identification online, and also for phone security. Those things could have wide appeal.
Do i want the same thing on my wrist as 25% of my colleagues ? it would be a bit like 25% of the office wearing the same T-Shirt, or shoes. Sounds a bit too uniformy for me.
For me a watch is about functionality rather than style. That said, loads of people seemed happy to show off their iPhones in public.
LOL there is no need to argue over anything - there's a custom made thread already for that - where the merits or not of the word 'retina' are still being argued over two years too late - I;m rather hoping this thread doesn't head in that direction.
Besides, I already agreed with you in earlier post that accessories will always be niche compared to smartphones and tablets. The point I've been making is even with a few million sales it's worth Apple supporting to keep people in the eco-system, and using the iTunes/app store. Apple TV is actually a good example. It is essentially an iTunes store add on, with the added ability of being able to wirelessly stream media or mirror screens from other Apple devices/computers.
OK then
Its an odd one to be honest. Do people want individual wearable tech ? Could apple provide variety like swatch ? With it (possibly) being Apples 'next big thing' it could be hugely important for them as a company. A lot could depend on whether Samsung beat them to market.
With watches it seems like battery is key. Make them too flashy and battery is poor (as per the live view). Make battery key and functionality can drop.
For me a watch has to be 'always on'. thats why the pebble appeals. i dont want to press a button to see the time .....
Absolutely, that's why I think Apple would produce a significantly better smartwatch than anything else on the market just now, because I think they'd a) understand the importance of battery life and b) have the means to engineer their device so that it was decent.
Absolutely, that's why I think Apple would produce a significantly better smartwatch than anything else on the market just now, because I think they'd a) understand the importance of battery life and b) have the means to engineer their device so that it was decent.
Their phones are no better though, so why should their watches be? Their batteries are as crap as the rest.
Its an odd one to be honest. Do people want individual wearable tech ? Could apple provide variety like swatch ? With it (possibly) being Apples 'next big thing' it could be hugely important for them as a company. A lot could depend on whether Samsung beat them to market.
With watches it seems like battery is key. Make them too flashy and battery is poor (as per the live view). Make battery key and functionality can drop.
For me a watch has to be 'always on'. thats why the pebble appeals. i dont want to press a button to see the time .....
I agree. There's currently two extremes of existing smart watches. Some are basically watches with a bluetooth added on for notifications from the phone and remote control of media playing, camera shutter, dropping pins (Facebook check-in) on map like the Cookoo - where you can get battery life of a year - but with very poor screens and backlighting. Interestingly the Cookoo has two batteries. One for the watch mechanism and one for the electronics.
Alternatively the other option is higher tech with more functionality, proper screens and possibly installable widgets. But need charging every couple of days (depending on usage naturally). These have far nicer screens and are preferable IMHO. However there were some early fails with these where some couldn't even tell the time without the Smartphone connected.
Perhaps a winner will be something in between the two extremes, that can last weeks between charges (unlikely I know!) Still they have at least all realised that a smart watch should be able to at least function as a watch when not connected to the phone.
Their phones are no better though, so why should their watches be? Their batteries are as crap as the rest.
Their handsets have similar battery life to the competition despite having lower-capacity batteries.
Their laptops regularly trounce Windows alternative when it comes to battery life.
On a watch, where space is at an even greater premium than in a phone, there's a limit to how much bigger you can make it/how much larger a battery you can fit.
So I think Apple's expertise in producing tightly integrated hardware and software would prove a benefit for smartwatches.
Their handsets have similar battery life to the competition despite having lower-capacity batteries.
Their laptops regularly trounce Windows alternative when it comes to battery life.
On a watch, where space is at an even greater premium than in a phone, there's a limit to how much bigger you can make it/how much larger a battery you can fit.
So I think Apple's expertise in producing tightly integrated hardware and software would prove a benefit for smartwatches.
but to be fair their historical 'expertise' has often actually been expertise from Samsung (and others). Im no great Samsung fan either but Apple dont have too much specific expertise in actually making these things...... yet.
If Samsung are also doing similar things then it could be an interesting year.
The rumour that they might buy the Pebble team is an interesting one too.
but to be fair their historical 'expertise' has often actually been expertise from Samsung (and others). Im no great Samsung fan either but Apple dont have too much specific expertise in actually making these things...... yet.
Samsung make (some of) the components but they don't have anything to do with the software.
It doesn't matter how good the hardware is if the software is badly optimised.
So whilst quality hardware is certainly one aspect of it, Apple still deserve some credit for the performance of their devices.
The laptops in particular given they're using the same hardware as everyone else, unlike their phones which use custom SoCs.
But they also have correspondingly smaller screens, which is the big drain on modern phones.
That's one aspect of it but the difference in screen size between, say, the iPhone5 and the S3 isn't nearly as pronounced as the difference in battery capacity.
And their relatively good battery efficiency pre-dates the more marked difference in screen sizes of recent handsets.
Apple aren't the only company who can produce devices with good battery life, of course but they deserve credit for their strengths.
Comments
Pebble will stay fairly niche, as will metawatch, liveview, I'm watch, cuckoo etc etc.
Apple wont want a niche product. Apple will want to sell millions. Do i want the same thing on my wrist as 25% of my colleagues ? it would be a bit like 25% of the office wearing the same T-Shirt, or shoes. Sounds a bit too uniformy for me.
Naturally they won't have the appeal of phones/tablets. They will essentially just be accessories. But they can get around them all looking the same by having a large range of colours (bit like the Swatches of years ago) and third parties flogging straps etc. However this will always be relatively niche. But if it keeps punters within the ecosystem and the app stores it may well be worth while. All speculation at this stage obviously.
As soon as Apple enters a market, it stops being a niche market.
Gosh I hope you are joking with this one
http://www.ibtimes.com/apples-10-worst-products-ever-551881
Just a sample ........
Mp3 players, Smart phones and tablets are the only real products that apple came into and managed to (often temporarily) corner the market ....
They have had many more attempts that flopped.
I can see an iwatch selling a lot ..... But mostly to the same people who will buy anything from Apple (and I'm not having a dig at anyone in particular before anyone shouts !!!).
Apple are the biggest consumer electronics company in the world, a company that size doesn't do 'niche'.
So number 2 on that list, the second worst product Apple ever launched, is iTunes - it's only the biggest/most successful digital media distribution service ever :rolleyes:
As for the rest of them, they're either really old and pre-date Apple's rise to their current position or they're debatable at best.
Since when did one company need to corner a market for the market itself not to be a niche?
Not lately.
I don't own a single Apple product, I've owned literally one in my entire life but an Apple smartwatch is something I would consider (assuming it would be compatible with my Android handset(s)).
I think a lot of people who are interested in smartwatches but put off by the limited capabilities of the existing options would seriously consider one from Apple.
I think that's partly due to the date of the article. How could it miss Apple Maps? The worst product apple have rolled out for a long time....
Good luck with that
Apple Maps was shoddy but did it realistically cost them any sales?
Yeah, I know.
Which is a shame because I would be interested. Still the Samsung rumours offer up a bit of hope.
I'm not sure that there is in this case. Several free/software products made that list.
It certainly didn't bring them close to ruin, but it absolutely affected them and cost them sales. What Apple Maps did, very publicly, was destroy any semblance of Apple software being head and shoulders above the competition. More and more, people don't think, "hey I want the best phone, I'll get an iphone" (as quite a few people did around the time of iphone 4), spurned on by marketing messages such as "it just works". Most savvy customers know that the playing field is a lot more level now, they're weighing up their options more, asking on forums "which phone should I buy?" and being more discerning.
Not JUST because of maps of course, but it helped nudge Apple from a company with aspiring products to a company to make fun of.
It can be a successful product, but ensures anyone with an android phone will not buy one.
But open standards and never been Apples thing before so they wont give a shit as usual.
That was one example of an article. Not everything Apple has done has turned to gold. Apple TV is a fairly recent example of something that hasnt set the world on fire surely ???
You seem to have taken it a little personally. It certainly wasnt meant to offend. Its just a fact that Apple have had some things that have fallen by the wayside just like any other firm.
Apple TV has been around for quite a while. Started off as Jobsian hobby project, but sales have been fairly decent since they made it far more affordable a couple of years ago. If they sell as many watches as Apple TV's I think they'll be pretty pleased.
well we are going to argue over 'niche' then. Its pretty rare to see an Apple TV unit - 4 million worldwide is tiny compared to Freeview boxes or Tivos etc so I would still say its niche.
And compared with iPhones and iPads and iPods its very small fry.
If Apple sell only 4 million iWatches worldwide in a year my guess is that the press and the shareholders would see it, rightly or wrongly, as a failure.
Agreed. They will be looking to sell far more than that. Remember, they sold almost 50 million iPhones in a single quarter. There must be hundreds of millions of operational iOS devices now, so 4 million in a year would be really small.
My gut feeling is that, if launched, it will be pretty successful but obviously not to iPhone and iPad level.
Oh, Apple HiFi is another example of a product that flopped.
Apple Maps may be a terrible piece of software but that's not the same as being a niche product, which is the point he was trying to rebut.
And a number of the products on that list certainly don't fall into the niche product category, no matter how badly they sold.
Do you know a single person who was going to buy the iPhone5 and didn't just because of Apple Maps?
I'm not sure that there was ever a time when the iPhone sold because it was objectively better than the competition.
Spec-wise, about the only time that you could've argued that Apple pushed the market forward was the with increase in screen resolution that the iPhone4 brought about but even that was part of an on-going trend in increasing resolutions that has subsequently left Apple behind.
The Apple Maps issue will have little-to-no long-term impact on them IMO.
Of course not everything they've launched has been wildly successful but it's meaningless to look at failures dating back 20, 30 years - the world has changed drastically since then and so have Apple.
Looking at Apple in it's current iteration (which can basically be traced back to the iPod), they've had far more successes than failures.
Actually, not at all.
I only used myself as an example about potential customers because I can't speak for anyone else.
Those figures are rather out-of-date - they sold 2 million in the last quarter alone.
Yes the figures are lower than Freeview boxes or anything similar that is required to use a particular service but the market for such devices is growing with the likes of Boxee and Roku and so on and Apple seem to be very much holding their own in it. In fact, if anything, they will have pushed the market forward because there will be a number of people who have purchased an Apple TV who would never have purchased a similar device from a different manufacturer.
So's their laptop arm yet their market-share rivals that of a number of other top-tier laptop manufacturers.
They probably would but I'd be shocked if they sold that few.
Whilst this is in a number of ways a new product category for Apple, at the same time it's not at all - it's an iPhone/iPad accessory, there's already a large and proven market for them.
Besides, I already agreed with you in earlier post that accessories will always be niche compared to smartphones and tablets. The point I've been making is even with a few million sales it's worth Apple supporting to keep people in the eco-system, and using the iTunes/app store. Apple TV is actually a good example. It is essentially an iTunes store add on, with the added ability of being able to wirelessly stream media or mirror screens from other Apple devices/computers.
For me a watch is about functionality rather than style. That said, loads of people seemed happy to show off their iPhones in public.
OK then
Its an odd one to be honest. Do people want individual wearable tech ? Could apple provide variety like swatch ? With it (possibly) being Apples 'next big thing' it could be hugely important for them as a company. A lot could depend on whether Samsung beat them to market.
With watches it seems like battery is key. Make them too flashy and battery is poor (as per the live view). Make battery key and functionality can drop.
For me a watch has to be 'always on'. thats why the pebble appeals. i dont want to press a button to see the time .....
Their phones are no better though, so why should their watches be? Their batteries are as crap as the rest.
Alternatively the other option is higher tech with more functionality, proper screens and possibly installable widgets. But need charging every couple of days (depending on usage naturally). These have far nicer screens and are preferable IMHO. However there were some early fails with these where some couldn't even tell the time without the Smartphone connected.
Perhaps a winner will be something in between the two extremes, that can last weeks between charges (unlikely I know!) Still they have at least all realised that a smart watch should be able to at least function as a watch when not connected to the phone.
Their laptops regularly trounce Windows alternative when it comes to battery life.
On a watch, where space is at an even greater premium than in a phone, there's a limit to how much bigger you can make it/how much larger a battery you can fit.
So I think Apple's expertise in producing tightly integrated hardware and software would prove a benefit for smartwatches.
but to be fair their historical 'expertise' has often actually been expertise from Samsung (and others). Im no great Samsung fan either but Apple dont have too much specific expertise in actually making these things...... yet.
If Samsung are also doing similar things then it could be an interesting year.
The rumour that they might buy the Pebble team is an interesting one too.
But they also have correspondingly smaller screens, which is the big drain on modern phones.
It doesn't matter how good the hardware is if the software is badly optimised.
So whilst quality hardware is certainly one aspect of it, Apple still deserve some credit for the performance of their devices.
The laptops in particular given they're using the same hardware as everyone else, unlike their phones which use custom SoCs.
Who'll buy Pebble?
Samsung or Apple?
That's one aspect of it but the difference in screen size between, say, the iPhone5 and the S3 isn't nearly as pronounced as the difference in battery capacity.
And their relatively good battery efficiency pre-dates the more marked difference in screen sizes of recent handsets.
Apple aren't the only company who can produce devices with good battery life, of course but they deserve credit for their strengths.