My opinion on the problem of disruptive children in schools is as follows.
Some teachers are too soft. They do not give children detentions or any sort of punishment for being disruptive. Some children are allowed to get away with being disruptive for reasons that are ultimately of of social science.
The management of schools where thre is a lot of disruptive behaviour is poor. The rules are weak. The consequences for breaking the rules cannot be considered punishments. Example: disrupt one lesson - go to another lesson for a few minutes but don't do any work, just sit there.
In schools there is too much social science and too much positivism. The result is disruption is explained and normalised, so there is more of it.
How would you explain away the poor behaviour of entry level children aged four? Who is responsible for that?
As you say, some teachers are soft, but most are not. It is far easier to teacher a well disciplined class than a disruptive one, so it is worth putting in the ground work early on.
Teachers are confronted with children who 'know their rights' and who have parents who complain if you so much as so no to little Johnny. They come into school shouting at you, in front of the children. Telling you their child never lies, that the adults concerned are wrong, all in front of the children. If the teacher doesn't back down they are often then 'tried by Facebook' as the parents feel they can say whatever they want about the teachers. On the other side, often the senior management don't support the teachers as they don't want confrontation with difficult parents. It is nigh on impossible to get a child excluded or expelled these days. So the class teachers are often caught between the devil and the deep blue sea.
How would you explain away the poor behaviour of entry level children aged four? Who is responsible for that?
As you say, some teachers are soft, but most are not. It is far easier to teacher a well disciplined class than a disruptive one, so it is worth putting in the ground work early on.
Teachers are confronted with children who 'know their rights' and who have parents who complain if you so much as so no to little Johnny. They come into school shouting at you, in front of the children. Telling you their child never lies, that the adults concerned are wrong, all in front of the children. If the teacher doesn't back down they are often then 'tried by Facebook' as the parents feel they can say whatever they want about the teachers. On the other side, often the senior management don't support the teachers as they don't want confrontation with difficult parents. It is nigh on impossible to get a child excluded or expelled these days. So the class teachers are often caught between the devil and the deep blue sea.
Absolutely nothing, as long as they know the rites of others-everyone in the room is entitled to learn their lessons in peace and quiet and not have their learning disrupted by someone who has no manners. With all rights come responsibilities.
Absolutely nothing, as long as they know the rites of others-everyone in the room is entitled to learn their lessons in peace and quiet and not have their learning disrupted by someone who has no manners. With all rights come responsibilities.
How would you explain away the poor behaviour of entry level children aged four? Who is responsible for that?
The parents.
Teachers are confronted with children who 'know their rights' and who have parents who complain if you so much as so no to little Johnny. They come into school shouting at you, in front of the children. Telling you their child never lies, that the adults concerned are wrong, all in front of the children. If the teacher doesn't back down they are often then 'tried by Facebook' as the parents feel they can say whatever they want about the teachers. On the other side, often the senior management don't support the teachers as they don't want confrontation with difficult parents.
This is the problem. Weak management. The school management should be warning parents that tif they behave inappropriately in school, the police and social services will be called. The aim of the school will be to have the children removed. Instead, they do nothing, blaming disadvantage, relative poverty etc. If this is how bad the relatively impoverished are I wonder how bad the really impoverished of Africa are?
It is nigh on impossible to get a child excluded or expelled these days.
There is no point in excluding children for a few days, then having them return to school, do something else, get excluded and repeat. The children should be detained during their breaks. They should have to go to an internal exclusion room which has booths, wherre they should have to work.
The teachers are not blameless. They strike over pay. They never strike against the excusing of and refusal to punish bad behaviour.
The teachers are not blameless. They strike over pay. They never strike against the excusing of and refusal to punish bad behaviour.
Strike action for years has been about conditions, not about pay. In fact I can't remember the last time teachers went on strike about pay.
With conditions, many teachers are facing a daily battle. I teach teens and do not have much knowledge about the wee ones. (Actually, little ones enmasse terrify me!! ) I now work as a supply teacher and have been in the situation where I have sent for a senior member of staff to remove someone who wasn't working and was disrupting others. No senior teacher arrived so the little so and so got away with it and felt vindicated. This kind of thing happens to full time, contracted staff too.
The vast majority of teens are absolutely fantastic and I have been privileged to teach them for 40 years. However, they're not all saints and if they can get away with poor behaviour, they'll carry on. Senior staff have an obligation to kids and staff so badly behaved kids should be removed from the room, allowing the teachers to teach and the rest of the kids to learn.
The teachers are not blameless. They strike over pay. They never strike against the excusing of and refusal to punish bad behaviour.
This is incorrect. SOME teachers strike over pay and conditions. NOT all. If they wish to, that is their right.
Class teachers can only do so much. I've actually been told to keep quite about poor behaviour of certain pupils or face being repremanded myself. What should I do in that case? No one above the head wants to know.
We HAVE to follow the school behaviour policy or face discipline. ALL the teachers in my school disagree with parts of the discipline policy but have been told that, 'Yours is not to reason why...'
I've actually been told I am too strict, despite the fact that I get consistently excellent results from the children in my care. Despite the fact that I have fantastic relationships with the children. I do wonder why I am often given the 'difficult' classes to, 'Knock into shape.' Why do that if I am too strict?
In the Olden Days ( 1950's/60's) we had schools for children with emotional problems. It was good because their issues were dealt with on a daily basis and their families were involved, they had psychiatrists visiting and ordinary sschools could get on with teaching without having to deal with disruption.
Then the PC brigade came along and said these kids shouldn't be segregated; they should attend ordinary school and learn to live and learn amongst ordinary kids. Also, they said, it will cost less. So the magic words were spoken and the powers that were leapt upon them and shut all the special schools.
What goes round comes round and I'm wondering if I'll still be here when some bright spark suggests special schools again,/
So many experts. Of course, they've all been to school so they know what it's like to work in one, and what goes on in the staffroom.
Well my wife has worked in high prestige schools, and in state sector schools. She fills me in on good/bad practice and good/bad culture at the schools that she now supplies in. I get very good information about the range of educational standards. Im also a parent.
Teachers like to group up and say no one can scrutinise them or hold them to account unless they themselves are teachers. This is cobblers. Standards are falling. Im not happy about that. I wont accept even the slightest moment of my daughters teachers taking their foot off the gas.
All we here from teachers (examples in this very thread) is i work hard and get the best results etc... Well stats dont lie. This country is falling down, down down the educational standards league table. It would be nice to hear some honesty for once, admitting that they need to up their game.
Well my wife has worked in high prestige schools, and in state sector schools. She fills me in on good/bad practice and good/bad culture at the schools that she now supplies in. I get very good information about the range of educational standards. Im also a parent.
Teachers like to group up and say no one can scrutinise them or hold them to account unless they themselves are teachers. This is cobblers. Standards are falling. Im not happy about that. I wont accept even the slightest moment of my daughters teachers taking their foot off the gas.
All we here from teachers (examples in this very thread) is i work hard and get the best results etc... Well stats dont lie. This country is falling down, down down the educational standards league table. It would be nice to hear some honesty for once, admitting that they need to up their game.
Sadly some kids in Britain have the attitude of underachiever and proud of it
Comments
How would you explain away the poor behaviour of entry level children aged four? Who is responsible for that?
As you say, some teachers are soft, but most are not. It is far easier to teacher a well disciplined class than a disruptive one, so it is worth putting in the ground work early on.
Teachers are confronted with children who 'know their rights' and who have parents who complain if you so much as so no to little Johnny. They come into school shouting at you, in front of the children. Telling you their child never lies, that the adults concerned are wrong, all in front of the children. If the teacher doesn't back down they are often then 'tried by Facebook' as the parents feel they can say whatever they want about the teachers. On the other side, often the senior management don't support the teachers as they don't want confrontation with difficult parents. It is nigh on impossible to get a child excluded or expelled these days. So the class teachers are often caught between the devil and the deep blue sea.
Whats wrong with children knowing their rights?
Absolutely nothing, as long as they know the rites of others-everyone in the room is entitled to learn their lessons in peace and quiet and not have their learning disrupted by someone who has no manners. With all rights come responsibilities.
I couldn't have put it better myself DL. 😄
Hope all is well. 😊
I think you might be right!!
Thank you for your kind words and, obviously, I hope all is well your end too!!
Hmmmmm! I'll PM you later on that one!!!😳 Planning at the mo!
Are you talking for pupils, parents or teachers?!!!
Pupils of course why on earth would we drug the teachers or parents!
Exactly they're old enough to buy their own drugs
The parents.
This is the problem. Weak management. The school management should be warning parents that tif they behave inappropriately in school, the police and social services will be called. The aim of the school will be to have the children removed. Instead, they do nothing, blaming disadvantage, relative poverty etc. If this is how bad the relatively impoverished are I wonder how bad the really impoverished of Africa are?
There is no point in excluding children for a few days, then having them return to school, do something else, get excluded and repeat. The children should be detained during their breaks. They should have to go to an internal exclusion room which has booths, wherre they should have to work.
The teachers are not blameless. They strike over pay. They never strike against the excusing of and refusal to punish bad behaviour.
Strike action for years has been about conditions, not about pay. In fact I can't remember the last time teachers went on strike about pay.
With conditions, many teachers are facing a daily battle. I teach teens and do not have much knowledge about the wee ones. (Actually, little ones enmasse terrify me!!
The vast majority of teens are absolutely fantastic and I have been privileged to teach them for 40 years. However, they're not all saints and if they can get away with poor behaviour, they'll carry on. Senior staff have an obligation to kids and staff so badly behaved kids should be removed from the room, allowing the teachers to teach and the rest of the kids to learn.
This is incorrect. SOME teachers strike over pay and conditions. NOT all. If they wish to, that is their right.
Class teachers can only do so much. I've actually been told to keep quite about poor behaviour of certain pupils or face being repremanded myself. What should I do in that case? No one above the head wants to know.
We HAVE to follow the school behaviour policy or face discipline. ALL the teachers in my school disagree with parts of the discipline policy but have been told that, 'Yours is not to reason why...'
I've actually been told I am too strict, despite the fact that I get consistently excellent results from the children in my care. Despite the fact that I have fantastic relationships with the children. I do wonder why I am often given the 'difficult' classes to, 'Knock into shape.' Why do that if I am too strict?
I know. He was talking like he is one.
So many experts. Of course, they've all been to school so they know what it's like to work in one, and what goes on in the staffroom.
Exactly. I've had an operation so I'm thinking of becoming a surgeon to supplement my income!!!😜
Just checking!!!!😝
Ha ha ha!!! Thanks for that chuckle!😉
I get migraines so I could be a brain surgeon. My friend's husband is a brain surgeon so he could get me a job!! ;-)
Why not use your contacts?!!😜
It would be rude not to!!!!
Then the PC brigade came along and said these kids shouldn't be segregated; they should attend ordinary school and learn to live and learn amongst ordinary kids. Also, they said, it will cost less. So the magic words were spoken and the powers that were leapt upon them and shut all the special schools.
What goes round comes round and I'm wondering if I'll still be here when some bright spark suggests special schools again,/
Well my wife has worked in high prestige schools, and in state sector schools. She fills me in on good/bad practice and good/bad culture at the schools that she now supplies in. I get very good information about the range of educational standards. Im also a parent.
Teachers like to group up and say no one can scrutinise them or hold them to account unless they themselves are teachers. This is cobblers. Standards are falling. Im not happy about that. I wont accept even the slightest moment of my daughters teachers taking their foot off the gas.
All we here from teachers (examples in this very thread) is i work hard and get the best results etc... Well stats dont lie. This country is falling down, down down the educational standards league table. It would be nice to hear some honesty for once, admitting that they need to up their game.
Absolutely nothing, so long as they are taught that they come with responsibilities. It's a an old cliche, admittedly, but a fair point.
ETA: Ah, Dragonlady beat me too it. Great minds and all that...don't know how I missed your post but will leave wot I wrote to signal agreement!
Sadly some kids in Britain have the attitude of underachiever and proud of it