Ex-MI6 boss tells west "don't insult Islam"

steveh31steveh31 Posts: 13,516
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http://news.sky.com/story/1411409/ex-mi6-boss-warns-west-not-to-insult-islam

Sir John said: "There is a requirement for restraint from those of us in the West."
"I rather agree with the Pope that, of course, the attacks in Paris were completely unacceptable and cannot be justified on any basis whatsoever, but I think respect for other people's religion is also an important part of this.

"If you show disrespect for others' core values then you are going to provoke an angry response. That doesn't justify anything, but I think we just need to bear it in mind."
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Comments

  • jenziejenzie Posts: 20,821
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    no i won't
  • ElectraElectra Posts: 55,660
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    I'd say there was a requirement for some muslims to refrain from killing people because they're offended.

    We tried that appeasement thing in the 1930s. It doesn't work.
  • MargMckMargMck Posts: 24,115
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    Electra wrote: »
    I'd say there was a requirement for some muslims to refrain from killing people because they're offended.

    We tried that appeasement thing in the 1930s. It doesn't work.

    Ah yes. "Peace in our time".
  • Diamond statDiamond stat Posts: 1,473
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    The MI6 guy is right.

    Better to give way to the islamification of Europe, trying to fight it will only bring ISIS closer,,, and more death...
  • exlordlucanexlordlucan Posts: 35,375
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    The MI6 guy is right.

    Better to give way to the islamification of Europe, trying to fight it will only bring ISIS closer,,, and more death...
    This is a joke right?
  • exlordlucanexlordlucan Posts: 35,375
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    Thread title is wrong, he doesn't tell but warns.
  • steveh31steveh31 Posts: 13,516
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    Thread title is wrong, he doesn't tell but warns.

    Picky - well it's stuck now can't be changed.
  • exlordlucanexlordlucan Posts: 35,375
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    steveh31 wrote: »
    Picky - well it's stuck now can't be changed.
    And where is this said that you quote?



    "don't insult Islam"
  • KapellmeisterKapellmeister Posts: 41,322
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    As much as I'm loathe to agree (and as much as I think the pope is a gigantic twit), I think perhaps there isn't any other option.
  • GeneralissimoGeneralissimo Posts: 6,289
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    Electra wrote: »
    I'd say there was a requirement for some muslims to refrain from killing people because they're offended.

    We tried that appeasement thing in the 1930s. It doesn't work.

    Bang on.

    It's hard to believe how pathetic western Europe has become. We have to stand up for our culture, Islam is not our culture >:(
  • That usernameThat username Posts: 467
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    Poking fun at any religion can be offensive to these that believe in it, it can be no less offensive to Christians to have fun poked at Jesus or Mary then for Muslim to have fun made out of their prophet

    Yet Muslims do not seem to show much respect for other religions!
  • reglipreglip Posts: 5,268
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    I think he should be more interested in complicity in torture and murder and arming rebel groups who use the arms to murder civilians but what do I know about what motivates terrorists maybe cartoons are more important
  • AxtolAxtol Posts: 8,480
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    I have little respect for that paranoid idiot Sawers but the basics of what he's saying here makes sense. If you offend someone they will be annoyed or angry. Of course most times they don't channel that anger into a terrorist attack.
  • That usernameThat username Posts: 467
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    Axtol wrote: »
    I have little respect for that paranoid idiot Sawers but the basics of what he's saying here makes sense. If you offend someone they will be annoyed or angry. Of course most times they don't channel that anger into a terrorist attack.

    If you poke fun at anything you risk offending someone, the answer is to make telling jokes illegal?
  • EurostarEurostar Posts: 78,519
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    I can see exactly where he (and Pope Francis) are coming from. The muslim world is never going to convert to the values of the West, especially around issues of freedom of expression so it's a bit naive to expect that muslims will ever be fine with their religion being mocked, just because freedom of speech and expression is acceptable and the norm in western cultures.
  • exlordlucanexlordlucan Posts: 35,375
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    Give in to that one and what's the next thing they'll be making a fuss about?

    They'll never be happy until Europe is Islamic and they'll bully their way to it no matter how long it takes.
  • ItHasPotentialItHasPotential Posts: 7,817
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    pork...........
  • exlordlucanexlordlucan Posts: 35,375
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    pork...........
    Yeah good one, they'll be offended at it being openly on display.

    It's unclean to them and we should respect that.
  • StigglesStiggles Posts: 9,618
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    Eurostar wrote: »
    I can see exactly where he (and Pope Francis) are coming from. The muslim world is never going to convert to the values of the West, especially around issues of freedom of expression so it's a bit naive to expect that muslims will ever be fine with their religion being mocked, just because freedom of speech and expression is acceptable and the norm in western cultures.

    Some muslims do have a bit of a cheek to be honest! They are constantly mocking our values and ways of life. We do it back and people are killed in return? Just shows the ones who have grown up over time, and it certainly isn't them.

    If they aren't going to either convert to our values while living in our country, or get on with their lives alongside us, they should simply piss off to anther country which holds the same values as they do and be happy.

    It's either that or people in the west are going to start fighting fire with fire and it will turn very ugly indeed.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 4,044
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    Stiggles wrote: »
    Some muslims do have a bit of a cheek to be honest! They are constantly mocking our values and ways of life. We do it back and people are killed in return? Just shows the ones who have grown up over time, and it certainly isn't them.

    If they aren't going to either convert to our values while living in our country, or get on with their lives alongside us, they should simply piss off to anther country which holds the same values as they do and be happy.

    It's either that or people in the west are going to start fighting fire with fire and it will turn very ugly indeed.

    This one tried to buck the trend but got threatened


    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-oxfordshire-30896558

    Oxford newsagents ditches plan to sell Charlie Hebdo after threats
  • EurostarEurostar Posts: 78,519
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    Stiggles wrote: »
    Some muslims do have a bit of a cheek to be honest! They are constantly mocking our values and ways of life. We do it back and people are killed in return? Just shows the ones who have grown up over time, and it certainly isn't them.

    If they aren't going to either convert to our values while living in our country, or get on with their lives alongside us, they should simply piss off to anther country which holds the same values as they do and be happy.

    It's either that or people in the west are going to start fighting fire with fire and it will turn very ugly indeed.

    Yes, it's a complicated situation. It's worth bearing in mind though that it's only a very small percentage of islamist fanatics who are doing the killing but a much larger percentage of Muslims are still offended at their religion being mocked.

    I'm not sure Islam will ever be compatible with the values of western society, so there is always going to be a potential problem there.
  • bookaddictbookaddict Posts: 2,806
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    Eurostar wrote: »
    Yes, it's a complicated situation. It's worth bearing in mind though that it's only a very small percentage of islamist fanatics who are doing the killing but a much larger percentage of Muslims are still offended at their religion being mocked.

    I'm not sure Islam will ever be compatible with the values of western society, so there is always going to be a potential problem there.

    True, but they have the right to be offended, don't they? Obviously they don't have the right to commit acts of terrorism and murder - such acts are absolutely inexcusable and indefensible - but they have the right to feel offended at their religion being mocked, just as anyone else has that right. The far Christian Right in America get really offended when people mock their faith. Peopke often get offended when something they believe in is mocked and whether we agree with them or not, that's their right.
  • SemieroticSemierotic Posts: 11,131
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    You've put words into his mouth in order to create a clickbait title. Are you a journalist?

    He's said if you insult a religion, there will be a response. Which is factually correct.

    That said, I read the whole interview and his suggestion that the govt need yet more snooping powers to crack down on terrorists worries me deeply. Where will this end.
  • zx50zx50 Posts: 91,266
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    steveh31 wrote: »
    http://news.sky.com/story/1411409/ex-mi6-boss-warns-west-not-to-insult-islam

    Sir John said: "There is a requirement for restraint from those of us in the West."
    "I rather agree with the Pope that, of course, the attacks in Paris were completely unacceptable and cannot be justified on any basis whatsoever, but I think respect for other people's religion is also an important part of this.

    "If you show disrespect for others' core values then you are going to provoke an angry response. That doesn't justify anything, but I think we just need to bear it in mind."

    What about some countries over in the Middle East that persecute others, simply because they don't follow Islam? I do agree with him that if you're going to provoke others, there will be consequences. Although, fatal consequences over someone insulting the prophet you worship is taking things too far.
  • TheTruth1983TheTruth1983 Posts: 13,462
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    I still say that any religion that cannot deal with satire deserves to be subjected to a great amount of it.
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