Wouldn't the easiest way be to lend your relative a laptop then plug it into their tv, either via a HDMI cable or VGA to S-Video cable.
I may end up doing that, however I was really hoping there was a simple solution that was tailor made for doing this. As I thought, its not as simple as that. Thanks for the comments - I will go through them and see what I can do. Rasberry Pi (which I have never heard of) looks interesting but I do worry about the NTSC signal that so many things put out now - when I really need PAL. I don't know why we adopted 60Hz - maybe for cheaper imports? I have done quite well with aiming the camcorder so far but there are two issues - crushed contrast and some on screen icons that wont ever go away - I don't suppose Panasonic thought that someone would want to record the live feed via analogue. Thats a technical error.
easiest way would be to download get_iplayer to a PC, then you can dowload iplayer prograns as MP4 files , then convert them to MPEG and burn to a DVD using free software available on the net (you could treat your relative to a cheap dvd player ) i've been doing this with top of the pops episodes repeated on bbc four and the picture quality is pretty decent
easiest way would be to download get_iplayer to a PC, then you can dowload iplayer prograns as MP4 files , then convert them to MPEG and burn to a DVD...
Or (and I haven't checked this) burn the .mp4 directly to DVD as a data file, and play on most bluray players, for not much more than a budget DVD player (thinking £40 compared to £15).
If the Roku truly outputs 50Hz sourced content at 60Hz it's going to look pretty ropy.
It uses the 25fps version of iPlayer, so with a 60Hz output it's pretty much like 3-2 pulldown. Acceptable to American eyes (who are used to films looking that way on TV), stuttery to English eyes.
That's the least of its problems though. The output is NTSC 480i composite. The picture quality is truly awful. Far far worse than even 576i via RGB SCART. It doesn't handle widescreen properly (on any setting) - half the controls are off the screen. It's just not designed to be used this way.
It's fine via HDMI. It's quite common for 25fps sources to be converted to 60fps by repeating frames (PCs and tablets do it all the time), and then smoothed using frame interpolation (TVs do it all the time). I don't like it, but it's everywhere.
I agree with the get_iplayer to DVD-R suggestions. If you haven't done it before, the mp4 to DVD/MPEG-2 conversion can be surprisingly slow and (depending on the software) problematic. I'd just take a laptop, a tablet, or (if the person has a modern TV) a memory stick with the files on. Maplins (that's not a recommendation) used to have some really cheapy things with USB inputs and composite outputs (DVD players, "media" boxes, etc) which might play the files into the TV.
Ironically, with both a Freesat box and a VHS recorder, I'm set up to do exactly what you asked for - but wouldn't dream of doing it. It's a very long time since I recorded anything to VHS. I don't know anyone else (in real life) who can still play it!
It uses the 25fps version of iPlayer, so with a 60Hz output it's pretty much like 3-2 pulldown. Acceptable to American eyes (who are used to films looking that way on TV), stuttery to English eyes.
Cheers,
David.
Isn't iplayer always 25fps ?
SD
I have always assumed this will be 576p25, I haven't checked but will do so (My HDR FOX T2's can save a OD stream to a file)
HD
This is 720p25 (1280 x 720)
I will post details of both.
Media players are dirt cheap these days when paired with a 64GB flash memory device you could save hours of content.. So a smart tv wouldn't be needed.
Iplayer Video and Audio details for SD Player and HD Player. Note MPEG-4 is simply the container used to create the data files.
Iplayer SD
General
Format : MPEG-4
Codec ID : M4V
File size : 312 MiB
Duration : 29mn 3s
Overall bit rate mode : Variable
Overall bit rate : 1 501 Kbps
Encoded date : UTC 2015-05-29 22:25:48
Tagged date : UTC 2015-05-29 22:25:48
Video
ID : 1
Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile : Main@L3.1
Format settings, CABAC : Yes
Format settings, ReFrames : 2 frames
Codec ID : avc1
Codec ID/Info : Advanced Video Coding
Duration : 29mn 3s
Bit rate mode : Variable
Bit rate : 1 403 Kbps
Maximum bit rate : 2 500 Kbps
Width : 720 pixels
Height : 576 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate mode : Constant
Frame rate : 25.000 fps
Standard : PAL
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.135
Stream size : 292 MiB (93%)
Encoded date : UTC 2015-05-29 22:25:48
Tagged date : UTC 2015-05-29 22:25:48
Audio
ID : 2
Format : AAC
Format/Info : Advanced Audio Codec
Format profile : LC
Codec ID : 40
Duration : 29mn 3s
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 96.0 Kbps
Channel(s) : 2 channels
Channel positions : Front: L R
Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz
Compression mode : Lossy
Stream size : 19.4 MiB (6%)
Encoded date : UTC 2015-05-29 22:25:49
Tagged date : UTC 2015-05-29 22:25:49
HD Details
Format : MPEG-4
Codec ID : M4V
File size : 1 006 MiB
Duration : 58mn 38s
Overall bit rate mode : Variable
Overall bit rate : 2 399 Kbps
Encoded date : UTC 2014-12-26 13:10:15
Tagged date : UTC 2014-12-26 13:10:15
Video
ID : 1
Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile : High@L4.1
Format settings, CABAC : Yes
Format settings, ReFrames : 2 frames
Codec ID : avc1
Codec ID/Info : Advanced Video Coding
Duration : 58mn 38s
Bit rate mode : Variable
Bit rate : 2 300 Kbps
Maximum bit rate : 3 500 Kbps
Width : 1 280 pixels
Height : 720 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate mode : Constant
Frame rate : 25.000 fps
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.100
Stream size : 965 MiB (96%)
Encoded date : UTC 2014-12-26 13:10:15
Tagged date : UTC 2014-12-26 13:10:15
Audio
ID : 2
Format : AAC
Format/Info : Advanced Audio Codec
Format profile : LC
Codec ID : 40
Duration : 58mn 38s
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 96.0 Kbps
Channel(s) : 2 channels
Channel positions : Front: L R
Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz
Compression mode : Lossy
Stream size : 39.2 MiB (4%)
Encoded date : UTC 2014-12-26 13:10:15
Tagged date : UTC 2014-12-26 13:10:15
Graham, when you select "HQ" in MHEG iPlayer on the gen 1 Freesat products, they receive an H.264/AVC stream that's clearly 576i25. 25 interlaced frames per second = 50 interlaced fields per second. This delivers the smooth motion of real video (news, sport, strictly, etc!) rather than the stuttery motion of films and dramas that want to look like films (25fps true progressive or flagged as interlaced but really progressive).
Apart from a few tests (e.g. Strictly in 3D a few years back, which was 720p50), those interlaced streams are the only example of iPlayer delivering the smooth motion of real video (50 images per second). As you say, all the HD streams are 25fps progressive, and all the sub-HD streams on other platforms are 25fps progressive, giving only 25 images per second.
Many TVs interpolate the 25fps progressive streams up to 50, 60*, 100 or 120* frames per second, giving smooth motion irrespective of whether the original source had smooth motion (e.g. strictly etc), or stuttery motion (e.g. movies).
* = yes, really, a few TVs are stupid enough to run at 60Hz or 120Hz even from a 25fps or 50fps source. Most of them use motion interpolation to hide this fact.
Graham, when you select "HQ" in MHEG iPlayer on the gen 1 Freesat products, they receive an H.264/AVC stream that's clearly 576i25. 25 interlaced frames per second = 50 interlaced fields per second. This delivers the smooth motion of real video (news, sport, strictly, etc!) rather than the stuttery motion of films and dramas that want to look like films (25fps true progressive or flagged as interlaced but really progressive).
Apart from a few tests (e.g. Strictly in 3D a few years back, which was 720p50), those interlaced streams are the only example of iPlayer delivering the smooth motion of real video (50 images per second). As you say, all the HD streams are 25fps progressive, and all the sub-HD streams on other platforms are 25fps progressive, giving only 25 images per second.
Many TVs interpolate the 25fps progressive streams up to 50, 60*, 100 or 120* frames per second, giving smooth motion irrespective of whether the original source had smooth motion (e.g. strictly etc), or stuttery motion (e.g. movies).
* = yes, really, a few TVs are stupid enough to run at 60Hz or 120Hz even from a 25fps or 50fps source. Most of them use motion interpolation to hide this fact.
Cheers,
David.
The HDR FOX T2 has the newer version of iplayer with the HD streams. It's not a TV it's merely saving the received data stream to a hard disk file. It doesn't do any de-interlacing.
So does anything easily available give out a 50i signal for recording to VHS?
If you had a Smart TV or PVR with iPlayer built in there is a possibility that you could hook it up to a VCR via SCART and get an output from iPlayer that way. Probably more likely with a PVR than a TV as many TVs only output the digital tuner over SCART.
So does anything easily available give out a 50i signal for recording to VHS?
Any UK Freesat/Freeview box with iplayer available should be fine. A smart TV with iplayer might output iplayer from a scart socket cvbs/audio socket pins. At a guess only way to find out for sure is test these connected to a vcr using a simple scart adaptor.
Comments
I may end up doing that, however I was really hoping there was a simple solution that was tailor made for doing this. As I thought, its not as simple as that. Thanks for the comments - I will go through them and see what I can do. Rasberry Pi (which I have never heard of) looks interesting but I do worry about the NTSC signal that so many things put out now - when I really need PAL. I don't know why we adopted 60Hz - maybe for cheaper imports? I have done quite well with aiming the camcorder so far but there are two issues - crushed contrast and some on screen icons that wont ever go away - I don't suppose Panasonic thought that someone would want to record the live feed via analogue. Thats a technical error.
Thanks again.
That's the least of its problems though. The output is NTSC 480i composite. The picture quality is truly awful. Far far worse than even 576i via RGB SCART. It doesn't handle widescreen properly (on any setting) - half the controls are off the screen. It's just not designed to be used this way.
It's fine via HDMI. It's quite common for 25fps sources to be converted to 60fps by repeating frames (PCs and tablets do it all the time), and then smoothed using frame interpolation (TVs do it all the time). I don't like it, but it's everywhere.
I agree with the get_iplayer to DVD-R suggestions. If you haven't done it before, the mp4 to DVD/MPEG-2 conversion can be surprisingly slow and (depending on the software) problematic. I'd just take a laptop, a tablet, or (if the person has a modern TV) a memory stick with the files on. Maplins (that's not a recommendation) used to have some really cheapy things with USB inputs and composite outputs (DVD players, "media" boxes, etc) which might play the files into the TV.
Ironically, with both a Freesat box and a VHS recorder, I'm set up to do exactly what you asked for - but wouldn't dream of doing it. It's a very long time since I recorded anything to VHS. I don't know anyone else (in real life) who can still play it!
Cheers,
David.
Isn't iplayer always 25fps ?
SD
I have always assumed this will be 576p25, I haven't checked but will do so (My HDR FOX T2's can save a OD stream to a file)
HD
This is 720p25 (1280 x 720)
I will post details of both.
Media players are dirt cheap these days when paired with a 64GB flash memory device you could save hours of content.. So a smart tv wouldn't be needed.
Graham
Iplayer SD
General
Format : MPEG-4
Codec ID : M4V
File size : 312 MiB
Duration : 29mn 3s
Overall bit rate mode : Variable
Overall bit rate : 1 501 Kbps
Encoded date : UTC 2015-05-29 22:25:48
Tagged date : UTC 2015-05-29 22:25:48
Video
ID : 1
Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile : Main@L3.1
Format settings, CABAC : Yes
Format settings, ReFrames : 2 frames
Codec ID : avc1
Codec ID/Info : Advanced Video Coding
Duration : 29mn 3s
Bit rate mode : Variable
Bit rate : 1 403 Kbps
Maximum bit rate : 2 500 Kbps
Width : 720 pixels
Height : 576 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate mode : Constant
Frame rate : 25.000 fps
Standard : PAL
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.135
Stream size : 292 MiB (93%)
Encoded date : UTC 2015-05-29 22:25:48
Tagged date : UTC 2015-05-29 22:25:48
Audio
ID : 2
Format : AAC
Format/Info : Advanced Audio Codec
Format profile : LC
Codec ID : 40
Duration : 29mn 3s
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 96.0 Kbps
Channel(s) : 2 channels
Channel positions : Front: L R
Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz
Compression mode : Lossy
Stream size : 19.4 MiB (6%)
Encoded date : UTC 2015-05-29 22:25:49
Tagged date : UTC 2015-05-29 22:25:49
HD Details
Format : MPEG-4
Codec ID : M4V
File size : 1 006 MiB
Duration : 58mn 38s
Overall bit rate mode : Variable
Overall bit rate : 2 399 Kbps
Encoded date : UTC 2014-12-26 13:10:15
Tagged date : UTC 2014-12-26 13:10:15
Video
ID : 1
Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile : High@L4.1
Format settings, CABAC : Yes
Format settings, ReFrames : 2 frames
Codec ID : avc1
Codec ID/Info : Advanced Video Coding
Duration : 58mn 38s
Bit rate mode : Variable
Bit rate : 2 300 Kbps
Maximum bit rate : 3 500 Kbps
Width : 1 280 pixels
Height : 720 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate mode : Constant
Frame rate : 25.000 fps
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.100
Stream size : 965 MiB (96%)
Encoded date : UTC 2014-12-26 13:10:15
Tagged date : UTC 2014-12-26 13:10:15
Audio
ID : 2
Format : AAC
Format/Info : Advanced Audio Codec
Format profile : LC
Codec ID : 40
Duration : 58mn 38s
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 96.0 Kbps
Channel(s) : 2 channels
Channel positions : Front: L R
Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz
Compression mode : Lossy
Stream size : 39.2 MiB (4%)
Encoded date : UTC 2014-12-26 13:10:15
Tagged date : UTC 2014-12-26 13:10:15
Apart from a few tests (e.g. Strictly in 3D a few years back, which was 720p50), those interlaced streams are the only example of iPlayer delivering the smooth motion of real video (50 images per second). As you say, all the HD streams are 25fps progressive, and all the sub-HD streams on other platforms are 25fps progressive, giving only 25 images per second.
Many TVs interpolate the 25fps progressive streams up to 50, 60*, 100 or 120* frames per second, giving smooth motion irrespective of whether the original source had smooth motion (e.g. strictly etc), or stuttery motion (e.g. movies).
* = yes, really, a few TVs are stupid enough to run at 60Hz or 120Hz even from a 25fps or 50fps source. Most of them use motion interpolation to hide this fact.
Cheers,
David.
The HDR FOX T2 has the newer version of iplayer with the HD streams. It's not a TV it's merely saving the received data stream to a hard disk file. It doesn't do any de-interlacing.
If you had a Smart TV or PVR with iPlayer built in there is a possibility that you could hook it up to a VCR via SCART and get an output from iPlayer that way. Probably more likely with a PVR than a TV as many TVs only output the digital tuner over SCART.
Any UK Freesat/Freeview box with iplayer available should be fine. A smart TV with iplayer might output iplayer from a scart socket cvbs/audio socket pins. At a guess only way to find out for sure is test these connected to a vcr using a simple scart adaptor.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Scart-S-Video-SVHS-Phono-to-RCA-Phono-Audio-Video-Switchable-Adapter-Converter-/351285852130?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item51ca44b7e2
Pins 1 3 and 19 are used
http://www.leadsdirect.co.uk/technical-library/pinouts-wiring-diagrams/scart-wiring/
Potential list from Humax (plus Sky which I know works)
Known to work (I send signals from these to a remote TV using a modulator - except a Sky Box)
HDR FOX T2 (Terrestrial), Sky Box (sat), HDR1000S/HDR1010S/Foxsat-HDR (Sat)
Almost certain to work but not owned
Terrestrial HDR1800/2000T Satellite HB1000S.
There will be others.
Just a heads up.
So you'd need get_iplayer version 2.93