Primary School Teaching: Enjoyable or a red-tape nightmare?

[Deleted User] · 23/05/15 - 11:56

I'm just about to finish my psychology degree and wondering what to do with myself next.

I've thought about becoming a teacher but I imagine my fairytale view of planning lessons, teaching the kids, then going home to do some marking might actually fall short of reality!

So, is anyone on here a teacher in a primary school? If so, it would be interesting to hear if you enjoy your job? I love kids and it would be a lovely career (I think!) to pursue.

janism · 23/05/15 - 12:22

I teach in a special school primary age. I love my job but it is extremely hard work. I get to school around 7am to sort our stuff for the day, teach lessons, spend half of lunch hour sortng out stuff for the afternoon. Then same after school.
Yes there are long holidays but I have assessments to finish, reports to write and planning to do this week.
The best thing to would be spend time in a school, essential for PGCE. I think it is also hard to get onto. There is also school based training and Teach First programmes.

[Deleted User] · 23/05/15 - 12:41

janism wrote: »

I teach in a special school primary age. I love my job but it is extremely hard work. I get to school around 7am to sort our stuff for the day, teach lessons, spend half of lunch hour sortng out stuff for the afternoon. Then same after school.
Yes there are long holidays but I have assessments to finish, reports to write and planning to do this week.
The best thing to would be spend time in a school, essential for PGCE. I think it is also hard to get onto. There is also school based training and Teach First programmes.

Thanks very much. I looked at the Schools First programme but wondered if age would go against me? I'm going to be 34 when I get the degree so wondered if schools might prefer someone 'fresh' out of uni in their early 20's?

The fact I have no experience working with kids might also go against me too. I will look into volunteering for something, but that might be difficult as many places might require criminal record checks (not that I have one -just that they might not want to pay for it!

)

Nigel Goodwin · 23/05/15 - 12:51

plymgary wrote: »

Thanks very much. I looked at the Schools First programme but wondered if age would go against me? I'm going to be 34 when I get the degree so wondered if schools might prefer someone 'fresh' out of uni in their early 20's?

Shouldn't make much difference, and a little 'life experience' might well be a plus factor.

As janism mentioned, it's a LOT more work than people imagine, and the imagined 'long holidays' are mostly unpaid. As a primary school teacher expect to get to school for 8am (or earlier), leave about 6pm (or later), and work at home until 10/11pm most nights, plus work a good part of the weekend as well.

The fact I have no experience working with kids might also go against me too. I will look into volunteering for something, but that might be difficult as many places might require criminal record checks (not that I have one -just that they might not want to pay for it! )

You WILL require a CRB check (or whatever it's called this week), it's standard required procedure for anyone going in a school, or indeed helping on trips.

[Deleted User] · 23/05/15 - 13:03

Nigel Goodwin wrote: »

Shouldn't make much difference, and a little 'life experience' might well be a plus factor.

As janism mentioned, it's a LOT more work than people imagine, and the imagined 'long holidays' are mostly unpaid. As a primary school teacher expect to get to school for 8am (or earlier), leave about 6pm (or later), and work at home until 10/11pm most nights, plus work a good part of the weekend as well.

You WILL require a CRB check (or whatever it's called this week), it's standard required procedure for anyone going in a school, or indeed helping on trips.

Thanks Nigel. I'm completely realistic to the idea that it won't be a case of turning up and going home at 4pm. I know it's hard work and most of the holidays are spent marking. I'm okay with that.

I don't mind the hard work if it's actually directly benefiting the teaching of children. What I'm wary of is having to do hours and hours of paperwork in order to just tick boxes for Government targets.

I will have a look at volunteering opportunities with children's centres. I have to redo my Science GCSE next May anyway as I only got a 'D' first time round.

Nigel Goodwin · 23/05/15 - 13:07

plymgary wrote: »

What I'm wary of is having to do hours and hours of paperwork in order to just tick boxes for Government targets.

There's hours and hours of that to do as well

Even worse, they change the rules and requirements frequently, so you might have to do them all twice (or more) as well

Lot's of teachers are quitting because of all the paperwork and red tape.

[Deleted User] · 23/05/15 - 13:15

Nigel Goodwin wrote: »

There's hours and hours of that to do as well

Even worse, they change the rules and requirements frequently, so you might have to do them all twice (or more) as well

Lot's of teachers are quitting because of all the paperwork and red tape.

That's what's making me think twice about doing it. I've got another three months to make my mind up. It's such a shame if this is the case because, without all that unnecessary faffing, I would have definitely gone for it.

janism · 23/05/15 - 13:37

There is a lot of paperwork involved, reports, referrals plus attending any relevant meetings plus you also have CPD to consider.
Holidays are not for marking as that is expected to be up to date with some kind of next step on the work, i.e how the child can improve their work or consolidate/extend their learning.
It is a really rewarding and fulfilling job but by the holidays I am shattered. As one trainee teacher said to me "Your class is all the challenging children in one room and you know w
What they are all doing and when to step in ."
Today is a lazy day, no school work but the big bag of work is in the dining room

Safi74 · 23/05/15 - 15:22

I can confirm everything that has already been about primary teaching by Janism and Nigel.

Being with the kids everyday is fantastic. Even after 20 years in teaching (4 year B.Ed degree and 16 years qualified) the buzz of sheer delight I get when the children learn something new is amazing. The excitement of a new discovery to them is a delight to see. I can't imagine anything better.

However, I wouldn't recommend anyone going into primary education now. If I had my time over I wouldn't. I am 41 tomorrow and feel I have wasted my life on the job. Yes I have helped hundreds of children and hopefully had a positive impact on many lives, but at huge personal cost to myself. I do not have a good quality of life and that is due directly to the job. I have NO work life balance.

The job has changed beyond all recognition and this shows no signs of slowing down anytime soon. Thanks to the likes of Gove and those before him, the red tape involved is unbelievable and mainly unnecessary.

You get very little support from vast swathes of parents, who seem to know how to do the job far better than you do. Yes there are some supportive parents, but not as many as there used to be.

The hours are crippling and exhausting. Don't expect to have time for breaks during the day. Going to the loo can be a challenge!

The emotional pressure is huge. I had teachers that had a hugely negative impact on my life when I was a child and the pressure I feel not to repeat their mistakes is massive.

Do the job well and you have actually helped to shape a good life for them. Do the job badly and you could damage the child for life. It is as simple as that.

I know of three ex pupils of mine who have gone into education as a direct result of me. On one hand I feel incredibly proud of this. I made them want to be like me, by being the best teacher I could possibly be. On the other, I feel incredibly sad for them. Knowing what they now have ahead of them.

I am allowing myself today, tomorrow and Monday to mainly sleep and then the rest of our so called holiday (which is unpaid I'd like to add) will be spent on school work.

The majority of the teachers I know have health issues due to not having the time to take care of themselves, myself included. It is incredible to see those who either retire or leave the job. Within 3 months they look different again. Revitalised.

We currently have 6 NQTs in our school. 2 of them are leaving the profession at the end of the year. I feel so sorry for them, as I've seen their enthusiasm crushed over the course of the year. NOTHING can prepare you for the extreme pressure.

It deeply saddens me that I feel like this about a job I always wanted to do and that I know I am damn good at. I don't want to feel so negatively about it. But the way primary teachers (and I dare say secondary too) are treated is appalling much of the time.

I trained for four years with the very specific end goal of being a primary school teacher. It is so demoralising to feel the way I do now. I don't want to feel like this.

If I could, I would leave the profession tomorrow, but I simply cannot imagine a life without children in it.

Yes, you will feel incredibly rewarded by the children, but is the high price you'll pay (with the negative impact on your personal life) worth it?

Please think long and hard before you decide. If you want any more advice please ask.

[Deleted User] · 23/05/15 - 15:37

Safi74 wrote: »

I can confirm everything that has already been about primary teaching by Janism and Nigel.

Being with the kids everyday is fantastic. Even after 20 years in teaching (4 year B.Ed degree and 16 years qualified) the buzz of sheer delight I get when the children learn something new is amazing. The excitement of a new discovery to them is a delight to see. I can't imagine anything better.

However, I wouldn't recommend anyone going into primary education now. If I had my time over I wouldn't. I am 41 tomorrow and feel I have wasted my life on the job. Yes I have helped hundreds of children and hopefully had a positive impact on many lives, but at huge personal cost to myself. I do not have a good quality of life and that is due directly to the job. I have NO work life balance.

The job has changed beyond all recognition and this shows no signs of slowing down anytime soon. Thanks to the likes of Gove and those before him, the red tape involved is unbelievable and mainly unnecessary.

You get very little support from vast swathes of parents, who seem to know how to do the job far better than you do. Yes there are some supportive parents, but not as many as there used to be.

The hours are crippling and exhausting. Don't expect to have time for breaks during the day. Going to the loo can be a challenge!

The emotional pressure is huge. I had teachers that had a hugely negative impact on my life when I was a child and the pressure I feel not to repeat their mistakes is massive.

Do the job well and you have actually helped to shape a good life for them. Do the job badly and you could damage the child for life. It is as simple as that.

I know of three ex pupils of mine who have gone into education as a direct result of me. On one hand I feel incredibly proud of this. I made them want to be like me, by being the best teacher I could possibly be. On the other, I feel incredibly sad for them. Knowing what they now have ahead of them.

I am allowing myself today, tomorrow and Monday to mainly sleep and then the rest of our so called holiday (which is unpaid I'd like to add) will be spent on school work.

The majority of the teachers I know have health issues due to not having the time to take care of themselves, myself included. It is incredible to see those who either retire or leave the job. Within 3 months they look different again. Revitalised.

We currently have 6 NQTs in our school. 2 of them are leaving the profession at the end of the year. I feel so sorry for them, as I've seen their enthusiasm crushed over the course of the year. NOTHING can prepare you for the extreme pressure.

It deeply saddens me that I feel like this about a job I always wanted to do and that I know I am damn good at. I don't want to feel so negatively about it. But the way primary teachers (and I dare say secondary too) are treated is appalling much of the time.

I trained for four years with the very specific end goal of being a primary school teacher. It is so demoralising to feel the way I do now. I don't want to feel like this.

If I could, I would leave the profession tomorrow, but I simply cannot imagine a life without children in it.

Yes, you will feel incredibly rewarded by the children, but is the high price you'll pay (with the negative impact on your personal life) worth it?

Please think long and hard before you decide. If you want any more advice please ask.

Thanks for sharing all that, Safi.

I'm really sorry to hear about all the negative things you've said about teaching. It seems to be as I feared...a load of pointless targets! If that's the case, then something will need to change as it will put people off becoming teachers.

I did look at becoming a classroom assistant as that would give me a good idea of what life as a teacher would be like. But, what's the point! Most of the vacancies I've seen require a certificate in this or that, and by the time I'd got any of those, I could have spent that time getting a teaching qualification.

I wonder if any local schools take volunteers? Would it be worth contacting them? I've got until May before I'd need to sit that GCSE anyway, and then I imagine a Schools Direct placement wouldn't start until September.

Did you never think of taking your teaching experience into working with children elsewhere? I'm sure there must be other things that would be less stressful (supply teaching?)

Safi74 · 23/05/15 - 15:52

plymgary wrote: »

Thanks for sharing all that, Safi.

I'm really sorry to hear about all the negative things you've said about teaching. It seems to be as I feared...a load of pointless targets! If that's the case, then something will need to change as it will put people off becoming teachers.

I did look at becoming a classroom assistant as that would give me a good idea of what life as a teacher would be like. But, what's the point! Most of the vacancies I've seen require a certificate in this or that, and by the time I'd got any of those, I could have spent that time getting a teaching qualification.

I wonder if any local schools take volunteers? Would it be worth contacting them? I've got until May before I'd need to sit that GCSE anyway, and then I imagine a Schools Direct placement wouldn't start until September.

Did you never think of taking your teaching experience into working with children elsewhere? I'm sure there must be other things that would be less stressful (supply teaching?)

All the while unqualified politicians get involved, nothing will change for the better. To them, education is about making their own self-promotion agenda work. It is a political football to be kicked the hell out of.

Even the life a the TA isn't as great as it used to be. We've lost lots of them too as they are being asked to take classes etc, whilst being paid a low wage. My sister in law is a TA and wants to leave. Somehow she appears to have become a 1 day a week teacher, planning and marking included, who is in charge of all the external school displays!

I'm not sure being a TA would give you a proper insight, as they don't have to do all the after school/weekend stuff (quite rightly so, it's not their job!).

Most schools jump at volunteers. As long as you are happy to be DBS (previously CRB) checked then I'm sure they'd bite your arm off!

I'm sorry to sound so negative about it all. I really do LOVE being with the kids. I even miss the little blighters during the holidays! BUT it's everything else on top that's crippling.

If I wasn't on my own I'd do supply in a heartbeat, but I need the security of a regular income. My friend has been doing supply for two terms now and she is loving it. She said it has reminded her what she did her qualifications for, the children. She also looks ten years younger!

Nigel Goodwin · 23/05/15 - 16:26

Safi74 wrote: »

Even the life a the TA isn't as great as it used to be. We've lost lots of them too as they are being asked to take classes etc, whilst being paid a low wage. My sister in law is a TA and wants to leave. Somehow she appears to have become a 1 day a week teacher, planning and marking included, who is in charge of all the external school displays!

I thought you had to be an HLTA in order to run a class?, which has a higher pay scale (and requires a higher qualification) than a normal TA - and also shouldn't include planning or marking, merely carrying out the real teachers plans and leaving them to do the marking.

However, a lot of poorer schools use HLTA's instead of teachers, saving them a LOT of money.

Safi74 · 23/05/15 - 16:41

Nigel Goodwin wrote: »

I thought you had to be an HLTA in order to run a class?, which has a higher pay scale (and requires a higher qualification) than a normal TA - and also shouldn't include planning or marking, merely carrying out the real teachers plans and leaving them to do the marking.

However, a lot of poorer schools use HLTA's instead of teachers, saving them a LOT of money.

Yes they are supposed to be HLTA's but not all schools stick to that. With my S-I-L, it started out as an occasional 'favour' and has now developed into a regular thing. She feels pressurised and as if she can't say no now.

We had HLTA's who were expected to attend parent teacher conferences, contribute to reviews and end of year reports. They had to do the planning, marking and assessment. One was even a subject leader! Both of them left last year as they couldn't take it anymore. So now the TAs are being expected to take on more, as are the class teachers.

It's all about box ticking and money. Especially since we became part of an academy (not the dreaded Harris type though I'm glad to say). But then you already know that!

MartinPickering · 23/05/15 - 17:04

Consider teaching English in another country. Some posts pay up to half a million dollars a year! Try South Korea.

codeblue · 23/05/15 - 21:12

My advice is steer well clear of teaching in primary and definitely secondary.

Soooooo much red tape and planning/ marking makes the hours unbearable.

Nigel Goodwin · 23/05/15 - 21:21

MartinPickering wrote: »

Consider teaching English in another country. Some posts pay up to half a million dollars a year! Try South Korea.

Interesting use of the word 'some'

A friends son went to South Korea doing TEFL, he had an interesting year but I don't think it paid as well as a proper qualified teacher over here?.

It's also a rather strange place, no cheese (or pretty well dairy products at all), and no deodorants either. They have MacDonalds (not that I would eat there anyway), but you can't have a cheese burger

Safi74 · 23/05/15 - 21:28

codeblue wrote: »

My advice is steer well clear of teaching in primary and definitely secondary.

Soooooo much red tape and planning/ marking makes the hours unbearable.

Seconded.

Safi74 · 23/05/15 - 22:17

striing wrote: »

Teaching is demanding but in the end it's what you make of it. If you get in a school with good leadership then the rest is up to you. Being older will be a distinct advantage imo; it will give you a more realistic approach (less likely to crash and burn) and credibility when dealing with parents (which is much harder than dealing with the children).

If you love children, have the stamina to get through the term, and you want to give it a go then don't let anyone put you off. We need good teachers.

And if you want a change of career in future then there's always educational psychology.:)

Just to add, after reading some of the posts on this thread, my job has quite a few teachers on secondment (due to staff shortages and difficulty filling the posts). The majority run back to teaching after a couple of terms so there are worse jobs out there!

Are you a primary school teacher?

Safi74 · 23/05/15 - 22:38

striing wrote: »

I haven't done any teaching since last December but have been in settings from early years to FE in my time (I'm the same age as you).

I'm now in education related work, staffed by teachers, that most teachers find is much more stressful than teaching. I wish I could say it was a ploy to make teaching more attractive but sadly it's just the reality of the job.

What education related work do you do? I'd love to do something that enabled me to do the job I actually signed up for. If security of money wasn't an issue, I'd do one to one tuition and supply.

I think if the politicians didn't use us to further their own agendas and left us to do what we do best, education could go back to being a great job. All be it a bloody hard one. I have no issue with hard work. I firmly believe you should always be aspirational. It's just that the job actually damages your quality of life so much. That isn't a good thing.

Even if I could go back to how it was when I graduated in 1998 I'd be delighted. I think the whole academy system has had a terrible impact on schools - at least in our area it has.

As I've said time and again on here, I love the actual teaching. That's why I'm personally so torn about what I should do. But I can't do this until in 68, which is my state pension age.

Sammmymack · 24/05/15 - 08:15

Avoid year two or six due to sats where the pressure is relentlessly on you to maintain the school's reputation in league tables, beat floor targets, save the head their job and keep ofsted at bay. Oh yes and teach thirty plus children who almost get forgotten in the mire of target setting and accountability. My time with my class teaching them actually feels like respite from everything else!

Safi74 · 24/05/15 - 10:23

striing wrote: »

I work in the education department of the council. I was about to train to be a (non class based) SENCO when I found I could make the same money working for the LA. It suits me as I never wanted to teach full time and I have another professional qualification which is useful for the work I do. I have minimal contact with pupils these days (though I do have some as I speciliase in the older age group which means I can work with pupils directly in some cases rather than parents). If I keep my cool I can just about see me doing this until 68 - also my state pension age.

I totally agree with your point about the level of interference from people who aren't in the profession. Most of my family are teachers (from one to one tutors to Headteachers) and have been for years. The older ones who are now long retired started to see changes around the time you graduated and say they couldn't do it now. My other bugbear is the increased amount of legal action that schools and local authorities find themselves dealing with - again driven by changes to legislation and case law carried out by people who have no idea (or appear to give a toss) about how things happen on the ground. Ugh don't get me started!

The one positive thing I've seen is that good teachers can now stay in the classroom and get paid for their work, rather than having to move into management and away from the children.

As an NQT I was SENCO! I did the job for 3 years alongside teaching a vertically grouped 3/4 class and still I had a better quality of life!

I've got UPS 3 and am constantly pressured to take on more and more. It's a battle to keep my feet in the classroom.

I wish the interfering forces would just leave us to do what we do best!

All my family are in education too, or have been, and are encouraging me to leave the profession. But to do what?!

I'm glad you've found something to suit you but I need children around me. Mad I know! :-)

Safi74 · 24/05/15 - 10:25

Sammmymack wrote: »

Avoid year two or six due to sats where the pressure is relentlessly on you to maintain the school's reputation in league tables, beat floor targets, save the head their job and keep ofsted at bay. Oh yes and teach thirty plus children who almost get forgotten in the mire of target setting and accountability. My time with my class teaching them actually feels like respite from everything else!

I know exactly what you mean. Teaching is respite from our second job, the red-rape.

Good advice about avoiding SATs years. My friend is in year 6 and it is almost doing her in. I've done year 2. Delightful children but a nightmare of red-tape.

MartinPickering · 24/05/15 - 11:32

MartinPickering wrote: »

Consider teaching English in another country. Some posts pay up to half a million dollars a year! Try South Korea.

Here's a good description of a "normal" teaching post:
http://www.aroundtheworldin80jobs.com/make-money-teaching-english-in-korea/

And "some":-
http://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmarshallcrotty/2013/08/11/south-korean-tutor-makes-4-million-a-year-can-you/

c4rv · 24/05/15 - 23:49

An interesting thing someone mentioned about getting parents supports. I know it varies from school to school but it can make a big difference.

Safi74 · 25/05/15 - 08:58

striing wrote: »

You sound like a really good teacher and it's such a shame if people like you are thinking of leaving.

I know this is controversial but, if you're thinking of leaving anyway, have you thought about moving into the private sector just to get away from the government interference?

Or is there any opportunity for you to become a lead practitioner (opportunity for sharing your skills with other teachers + extra money while still being class based)?

I'll PM you an example ad of the kind of work I do. I don't think you'd like it much as it doesn't involve children or teaching! But it'll give you an idea of what's you out there and it could give you some thinking space.

Thank you so much :-) .

I was thinking of private sector work but I've heard a few horror stories from people who have done it! Now I'm scared!!!!

Safi74 · 25/05/15 - 09:00

c4rv wrote: »

An interesting thing someone mentioned about getting parents supports. I know it varies from school to school but it can make a big difference.

It makes an incredible difference. Parental support is vital and without it we become largely impotent.

I've worked with some staff who are too frightened to discipline children with challenging behaviour, as they know the parents will go mad. I've had a few very unpleasant experiences with parents, but luckily not as many as some.

Hey there!

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Primary School Teaching: Enjoyable or a red-tape nightmare?

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