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The Doctor's question to Clara doesn't make sense

Free RadicalFree Radical Posts: 374
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in Doctor Who #1
When the Doctor asked Clara if he is a good man, that was technically a meaningless question because he is not a man. A man is defined as a Human Adult Male.

He is an adult male, but he's not human. What he should have asked is Am I a good person?

The writers often forget that the Doctor is not human. He's often too humanised, because in the writer's minds, human=relatable and alien=literally alienating. I don't agree with that approach. Having said that, they generally get it right with Twelve's characterisation.

What do you think?

Comments

  • Jack_RamoneJack_Ramone Posts: 471
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    #2
    "Lord" refers to a noble human male, but the Timelords aren't human.
  • CD93CD93 Posts: 13,939
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    #3
    I'm sure our use of the term will be updated when we discover sentient life beyond Earth - if said life conforms to male/female principles. Though remember, Time Lords came first ;-)

    Generally best to overlook such things in sci-fi - otherwise you'll find yourself asking why aliens refer to doors as 'doors' and the sky as 'the sky.' Don't give me this 'universal translator' baloney! :D
  • inspector drakeinspector drake Posts: 910
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    #4
    Jesus Christ, how petty can people get?
  • Free RadicalFree Radical Posts: 374
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    #5
    inspector drake wrote: »
    Jesus Christ, how petty can people get?

    Well, Sci-Fi fans are notoriously pedantic :)
  • Michael_EveMichael_Eve Posts: 14,460
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    #6
    Having the new Doctor showing self doubt in himself was interesting, but what I didn't think was very convincing was Clara's uncertain response to the question in Into the Dalek. Yeah, new body and personality, but Clara certainly knew he was a good man having apparently accepted him as the Doctor at the end of Deep Breath and them having gone through so much already.

    Less about semantics, more about what popped into me head rewatching Into the Dalek recently!
  • inspector drakeinspector drake Posts: 910
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    #7
    Michael_Eve wrote: »
    Having the new Doctor showing self doubt in himself was interesting, but what I didn't think was very convincing was Clara's uncertain response to the question in Into the Dalek. Yeah, new body and personality, but Clara certainly knew he was a good man having apparently accepted him as the Doctor at the end of Deep Breath and them having gone through so much already.

    Less about semantics, more about what popped into me head rewatching Into the Dalek recently!
    That's interesting. I've always thought Clara accepting Eleven and Twelve as the same person may have played a part in her doubt as to whether he was a good man. After all, Eleven sent her away after promising he would never do so again, and those events were still fairly recent for her (about 3 weeks after all).
  • Michael_EveMichael_Eve Posts: 14,460
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    #8
    inspector drake wrote: »
    That's interesting. I've always thought Clara accepting Eleven and Twelve as the same person may have played a part in her doubt as to whether he was a good man. After all, Eleven sent her away after promising he would never do so again, and those events were still fairly recent for her (about 3 weeks after all).

    Yeah, but I think it was clear in Time...how much she adored Eleven, and she had seen 3 Doctors up close in Day of the Doctor and she could see that they were good men. Loved her little scene with John Hurt's Doctor in that story. The "Am I a good man?" scene is very well played, but Clara's reaction didn't ring true to the character for me, somehow.
  • AbominationAbomination Posts: 6,483
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    #9
    The Doctor has been referred to as a man not only by himself, but by various beings from around the universe. Dalek Caan described him as 'the threefold man' in The Stolen Earth, Davros described him as 'the man who keeps running' in Journey's End, Ohila offered him the chance to regenerate as 'man or woman' in The Night of the Doctor, Vastra has described him as a 'man' more times than I can remember. There was a whole episode revolving around the idea of 'a good man goes to war' which was The Doctor.

    I think when it comes to humanoid figures, both man and boy are perfectly acceptable descriptors for a male character. I would have no problem describing Vastra as a woman, or Missy as a woman, or Astrid Peth as a woman - despite not being from Earth. The same applies to The Doctor.
  • vampirekvampirek Posts: 4,022
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    #10
    Free Radical wrote: »
    When the Doctor asked Clara if he is a good man, that was technically a meaningless question because he is not a man. A man is defined as a Human Adult Male.

    He is an adult male, but he's not human. What he should have asked is Am I a good person?

    The writers often forget that the Doctor is not human. He's often too humanised, because in the writer's minds, human=relatable and alien=literally alienating. I don't agree with that approach. Having said that, they generally get it right with Twelve's characterisation.

    What do you think?

    The Doctor's adopted home is Earth, his own people even acknowledged this and banished him to Earth. The Daleks know the importance of Earth to the Doctor and we seen any many occasions that that Doctor is the Defender of Earth.

    If you look at the events of the Ninth Doctor, it is assumed that once the Time War ended he went straight to Earth. The first thing he showed Rose was the end of the Earth, to try and make her realise his position (his home planet no longer around).

    There are plenty other examples of The Doctor either settling or hiding on Earth, that you could argue he is an adopted human.
  • TEDRTEDR Posts: 3,413
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    #11
    Grimaldi Man, Cromagnon Man, Flores Man, the Michelin Man, the Stay-Puft Man, the Man on the Moon, any given Cyberman, Pac-Man, the protagonist of She's the Man, any number of identikit Spider-/Super-/X-/Iron- men, our oppressor: The Man.
  • plateletplatelet Posts: 26,385
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    #12
    I's say the Doctor didn't say "Man". He said something in Gallifreyan that the Tardis translated for Clara to the best approximation it could find
  • DWA9ISDWA9IS Posts: 10,557
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    #13
    platelet wrote: »
    I's say the Doctor didn't say "Man". He said something in Gallifreyan that the Tardis translated for Clara to the best approximation it could find

    That right there makes sense
  • Steve_CardanasSteve_Cardanas Posts: 4,188
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    #14
    TEDR wrote: »
    Grimaldi Man, Cromagnon Man, Flores Man, the Michelin Man, the Stay-Puft Man, the Man on the Moon, any given Cyberman, Pac-Man, the protagonist of She's the Man, any number of identikit Spider-/Super-/X-/Iron- men, our oppressor: The Man.

    He man
  • Steve_CardanasSteve_Cardanas Posts: 4,188
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    #15
    [URL="I AM NOT A MERRY MAN: http://youtu.be/0ICpoWtFFzc"]i don't think Worf in TNG thinks he's a man[/URL]
  • ThrombinThrombin Posts: 9,416
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    #16
    The Doctor is half-human you know :D
  • SatmanagerSatmanager Posts: 837
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    #17
    The Doctor is the President of the Earth.
  • AirboraeAirborae Posts: 2,648
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    #18
    Free Radical wrote: »
    When the Doctor asked Clara if he is a good man, that was technically a meaningless question because he is not a man. A man is defined as a Human Adult Male.

    He is an adult male, but he's not human. What he should have asked is Am I a good person?

    The writers often forget that the Doctor is not human. He's often too humanised, because in the writer's minds, human=relatable and alien=literally alienating. I don't agree with that approach. Having said that, they generally get it right with Twelve's characterisation.

    What do you think?

    Please don't be offended. But you should get out more...:)
  • TerraCanisTerraCanis Posts: 14,099
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    #19
    inspector drake wrote: »
    Jesus Christ, how petty can people get?

    You do know that some people will take that as a challenge?
  • doormouse1doormouse1 Posts: 5,431
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    #20
    inspector drake wrote: »
    Jesus Christ, how petty can people get?

    Exactly. Unbelievable.
  • johnnysaucepnjohnnysaucepn Posts: 6,775
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    #21
    I think the definition of 'man' is a little wider than that. At my wedding, I had a woman who wasn't just a good man, she was the best man.
    http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/man wrote:
    noun, plural men.
    1. an adult male person, as distinguished from a boy or a woman.
    2. a member of the species Homo sapiens or all the members of this species collectively, without regard to sex:
    prehistoric man.
    3. the human individual as representing the species, without reference to sex; the human race; humankind:
    Man hopes for peace, but prepares for war.
    4. a human being; person:
    to give a man a chance; When the audience smelled the smoke, it was every man for himself.
    5. a husband.
    6. a male lover or sweetheart.
    7. a male follower or subordinate:
    the king's men. He's the boss's number one man.
    8. a male employee or representative, especially of a company or agency:
    a Secret Service man; a man from the phone company.
    9. a male having qualities considered typical of men or appropriately masculine:
    Be a man. The army will make a man of you.
    10. a male servant.
    11. a valet.
    12. enlisted man.
    13. an enthusiast or devotee:
    I like jazz, but I'm essentially a classics man.
    14. Slang. male friend; ally:
    You're my main man.
    15. a term of familiar address to a man; fellow:
    Now, now, my good man, please calm down.
    16. Slang. a term of familiar address to a man or a woman:
    Hey, man, take it easy.
    17. one of the pieces used in playing certain games, as chess or checkers.
    18. History/Historical. a liegeman; vassal.
    19. Obsolete. manly character or courage.
    20. the man, Slang.
    a person or group asserting authority or power over another, especially in a manner experienced as being oppressive, demeaning, or threatening, as an employer, the police, or a dominating racial group.
    a person or group upon whom one is dependent, as the drug supplier for an addict.
    Also, the Man.
  • Sufyaan_KaziSufyaan_Kazi Posts: 3,862
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    #22
    I think I remembered why I forgot this forum :p:D
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