I got sanctioned once for doing some part time work. It was under 16 hours so I couldn't sign off. The work programme provider Seetec, sent out appointments on the day I went in to work and instead of cancelling the appointments for me they asked me to ring them informing them I was at work.
I rang them every Thursday as requested as that's the day I worked and I still got "failed to attend work programme appointment" letters in the post which lead to a sanction.
The lady who signed me at the job centre saw the sanction and thought it was unfair as she knew I was doing 8 hours a day so she advised me to an appeal. The decision makers wanted written confirmation from my employer that I worked on the days they wanted evidence on as my e-mails with the work programme provider was not enough evidence to prove I was working. I sent the decision makers a letter from my employer and that got my sanction lifted.
The requirements are stupid in real terms anyway. Last time I was signing on (fortunately only for a few months) it was never about helping me find work, all about ticking boxes. I remember being told to apply for a job (I forget exactly what it was, but I had to apply for ten a week including three which my "adviser" had picked out) which specifically stated that you needed a car. "I don't have a car".
"Probably doesn't matter. Apply for it anyway".
Two weeks later. "What about this one that I sent you for? Did you hear anything from them?"
"Yes. They asked if I had a car. I don't have a car. I didn't get the job".
There's some poor HR guy somewhere tearing his hair out and wondering why he has to deal with so many applications from people who aren't remotely suitable, I'm no closer to getting work, but a box got ticked so the system's working. Bullshit.
When I did find work it had absolutely bugger all to do with the Job Centre.
The requirements are stupid in real terms anyway. Last time I was signing on (fortunately only for a few months) it was never about helping me find work, all about ticking boxes. I remember being told to apply for a job (I forget exactly what it was, but I had to apply for ten a week including three which my "adviser" had picked out) which specifically stated that you needed a car. "I don't have a car".
"Probably doesn't matter. Apply for it anyway".
Two weeks later. "What about this one that I sent you for? Did you hear anything from them?"
"Yes. They asked if I had a car. I don't have a car. I didn't get the job".
There's some poor HR guy somewhere tearing his hair out and wondering why he has to deal with so many applications from people who aren't remotely suitable, I'm no closer to getting work, but a box got ticked so the system's working. Bullshit.
When I did find work it had absolutely bugger all to do with the Job Centre.
Be very careful if an advisor tells you to apply for jobs you are not qualified for if they refuse to listen demand to see the floor manager knowingly applying for a job you are not qualified to do is a sanctionable offence. Technically knowingly setting up a claimant into a sanction trap is grose misconduct but I very much doubt any advisors have been dismissed for such an offence.
People who know and understand what this government are doing won't be surprised.
The people who don't care will continue not caring (and continue blaming the individual)
As a matter of historical record I wonder if the UK has ever had such a spiteful and nasty group of people in power?
That looks like a very old agreement anyway. Something more like from 5+ years ago.
My cousin's claiming JSA and I've just had a look at his agreement and no mention of how many jobs he should apply for. I will scan it and upload it later if I find time. Also, the form doesn't look like the one shown earlier.
Be very careful if an advisor tells you to apply for jobs you are not qualified for if they refuse to listen demand to see the floor manager knowingly applying for a job you are not qualified to do is a sanctionable offence. Technically knowingly setting up a claimant into a sanction trap is grose misconduct but I very much doubt any advisors have been dismissed for such an offence.
Jesus, that must be a new thing- this was four or so years ago now, and I don't think sanctions were quite so widespread.
I signed on for 3 Months and never had any problems. However I did see a few that were probably sanctioned. Our job centre is in quite a rough area and had 2 bouncers on standby at all times in case it would kick off. People would turn up 3 hours late and scream blue murder until they got seen, quite often they would as well and it was to the detriment of those who had turned up on time.
Also people would turn up without having filled in any jobs in their booklet, and then threaten the staff when they were told this was not acceptable.
Of course I bet in jol's job centre, it's a variable utopia. Where everyone applies for 50 jobs a week, turns up on time and it's all those evil Tory job centre puppets unfairly punishing those poor souls for absolutely no reason.:D
Strictly speaking it has always been a sanctionable offence, just these days they use any excuse to sanction you.
I think they would find it difficult to sanction you for that. I found the advisors were making me apply for jobs I was not qualified for. They often made me apply for jobs which specifically stated they wanted 17th edition qualified electricians, even though I was only 16th edition qualified. when I mentioned this, they just told me to apply anyway.
I've got practical experience of dozens of people who've been wrongly sanctioned in the past year alone, in one small area. Not one of them had their sanctions upheld when challenged (with the exception of one ongoing who was sanctioned because he wouldn't accept it was practical to travel daily to Bristol for a £21k job without travel expenses. He was unable to move due to disabled parent commitments.
It's only not sorted because it's a new case. I expect something to happen very shortly
You must be in the same line of work as me, Dave.
I've done around 15-20 challenges to JSA sanctions since April, and every one has been overturned.
Be very careful if an advisor tells you to apply for jobs you are not qualified for if they refuse to listen demand to see the floor manager knowingly applying for a job you are not qualified to do is a sanctionable offence. Technically knowingly setting up a claimant into a sanction trap is grose misconduct but I very much doubt any advisors have been dismissed for such an offence.
Perhaps not, but I know a few who have been in trouble big time ;-)
;-) Noticed you before. I'm freelance though these days, and not just on that subject. It means I get to really dig deep and cause trouble where it's deserved
Keep on fighting, kid. They need us.
Can you offer a specific example of what you consider to be an unfair or inappropriate application of a sanction?
1. A single parent was offered a job interview by telephone with less than 24 hours notice. She was unable to attend because she was unable to sort out anyone to pick her child up from school at such short notice.
Sanctioned, but overturned.
2. Someone took a job quite a way away from where they lived. The shift pattern hadn't been properly explained to them. On some days, to get to work on time would have meant leaving home before they'd got back from the previous day's late shift. They gave up the job.
Sanction imposed, subsequently overturned.
3. Failed to attend signing appointment because they were in A&E having been knocked down by a car. Sanction imposed despite attending at job centre the following day, with discharge letter from the hospital and arm in a plaster cast.
People who know and understand what this government are doing won't be surprised.
The people who don't care will continue not caring (and continue blaming the individual)
As a matter of historical record I wonder if the UK has ever had such a spiteful and nasty group of people in power?
1. A single parent was offered a job interview by telephone with less than 24 hours notice. She was unable to attend because she was unable to sort out anyone to pick her child up from school at such short notice.
Sanctioned, but overturned.
2. Someone took a job quite a way away from where they lived. The shift pattern hadn't been properly explained to them. On some days, to get to work on time would have meant leaving home before they'd got back from the previous day's late shift. They gave up the job.
Sanction imposed, subsequently overturned.
3. Failed to attend signing appointment because they were in A&E having been knocked down by a car. Sanction imposed despite attending at job centre the following day, with discharge letter from the hospital and arm in a plaster cast.
Many job seekers can be sanctioned for not applying for 'enough jobs', yet for many the job center doesn't tell the client what is enough jobs, there's no set amount. Therefore it is entirely at the Jobcenters discretion as to whether they wish to sanction someone for not applying for some mythical number of jobs that doesn't exist.
They also have some odd ideas of how to count applications.
A client applied for the required 5 jobs in one week. Three of them were are at Asda, two different job titles and 3 different branches. The job centre Nazi decided that applying for 3 jobs at Asda only counts as one application, and he got sanctioned.
He was also required to call in at 2 business premises each week on spec and ask if they had any vacancies. He lived in a village, 6 miles from the nearest town, £5.25 return bus fare to get there and the only workplaces he could get to were the pub and the village shop.
He got sanctioned again when he couldn't do his online job search because the whole village was without power for 24 hours because of storms.
Comments
I rang them every Thursday as requested as that's the day I worked and I still got "failed to attend work programme appointment" letters in the post which lead to a sanction.
The lady who signed me at the job centre saw the sanction and thought it was unfair as she knew I was doing 8 hours a day so she advised me to an appeal. The decision makers wanted written confirmation from my employer that I worked on the days they wanted evidence on as my e-mails with the work programme provider was not enough evidence to prove I was working. I sent the decision makers a letter from my employer and that got my sanction lifted.
I know several people I do.
If I were you, if you're telling the truth, I'd get ready for that figure to be changed.
You're supposed to be doing 35+ hours jobsearch activity a week, the government brought in the these proposals,
None of you claims show this. Why not?
How come you don't have to do 35+ job search activity a week? You're claims are very inaccurate of what is now supposed to be in place.
Maybe they just haven't got around to you yet.
"Probably doesn't matter. Apply for it anyway".
Two weeks later. "What about this one that I sent you for? Did you hear anything from them?"
"Yes. They asked if I had a car. I don't have a car. I didn't get the job".
There's some poor HR guy somewhere tearing his hair out and wondering why he has to deal with so many applications from people who aren't remotely suitable, I'm no closer to getting work, but a box got ticked so the system's working. Bullshit.
When I did find work it had absolutely bugger all to do with the Job Centre.
Indeed.
They've stopped doing it, and those that have will no doubt be updated.
Be very careful if an advisor tells you to apply for jobs you are not qualified for if they refuse to listen demand to see the floor manager knowingly applying for a job you are not qualified to do is a sanctionable offence. Technically knowingly setting up a claimant into a sanction trap is grose misconduct but I very much doubt any advisors have been dismissed for such an offence.
My cousin's claiming JSA and I've just had a look at his agreement and no mention of how many jobs he should apply for. I will scan it and upload it later if I find time. Also, the form doesn't look like the one shown earlier.
The more I see the more scared I get.
People just dont seem to care about their fellow man anymore.
Jesus, that must be a new thing- this was four or so years ago now, and I don't think sanctions were quite so widespread.
Also people would turn up without having filled in any jobs in their booklet, and then threaten the staff when they were told this was not acceptable.
Of course I bet in jol's job centre, it's a variable utopia. Where everyone applies for 50 jobs a week, turns up on time and it's all those evil Tory job centre puppets unfairly punishing those poor souls for absolutely no reason.:D
Strictly speaking it has always been a sanctionable offence, just these days they use any excuse to sanction you.
I think they would find it difficult to sanction you for that. I found the advisors were making me apply for jobs I was not qualified for. They often made me apply for jobs which specifically stated they wanted 17th edition qualified electricians, even though I was only 16th edition qualified. when I mentioned this, they just told me to apply anyway.
from a FOI request 11 june 2014
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/215684/response/528167/attach/html/4/Annex%201%20for%202537%20WDTK%20Travis.pdf.html
and the jobseekers agreement you sign
https://drive.google.com/viewerng/viewer?url=http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/141825/response/343981/attach/6/ES3JP+1112.pdf
its all clearly stated whats needed to qualify
if you dont have one i suggest you ask for one
You must be in the same line of work as me, Dave.
I've done around 15-20 challenges to JSA sanctions since April, and every one has been overturned.
Oh look, another example to hit you. Here we go ... Perhaps not, but I know a few who have been in trouble big time ;-)
;-) Noticed you before. I'm freelance though these days, and not just on that subject. It means I get to really dig deep and cause trouble where it's deserved
Keep on fighting, kid. They need us.
1. A single parent was offered a job interview by telephone with less than 24 hours notice. She was unable to attend because she was unable to sort out anyone to pick her child up from school at such short notice.
Sanctioned, but overturned.
2. Someone took a job quite a way away from where they lived. The shift pattern hadn't been properly explained to them. On some days, to get to work on time would have meant leaving home before they'd got back from the previous day's late shift. They gave up the job.
Sanction imposed, subsequently overturned.
3. Failed to attend signing appointment because they were in A&E having been knocked down by a car. Sanction imposed despite attending at job centre the following day, with discharge letter from the hospital and arm in a plaster cast.
Sanctioned, but overturned.
The job centre is not the government.
Job centre, are acting and doing what the government told them to do, in other words carrying out orders
The government will not have told them to act improperly
If genuine claimants are refused, it would appear that some job centre workers are not doing their job properly.
They also have some odd ideas of how to count applications.
A client applied for the required 5 jobs in one week. Three of them were are at Asda, two different job titles and 3 different branches. The job centre Nazi decided that applying for 3 jobs at Asda only counts as one application, and he got sanctioned.
He was also required to call in at 2 business premises each week on spec and ask if they had any vacancies. He lived in a village, 6 miles from the nearest town, £5.25 return bus fare to get there and the only workplaces he could get to were the pub and the village shop.
He got sanctioned again when he couldn't do his online job search because the whole village was without power for 24 hours because of storms.