university should be free?

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  • SystemSystem Posts: 2,096,970
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    Theres one thing I dont get

    Why on earth do you have to go to Uni to be a nurse

    Don't get me started on that one :mad: And primary school teachers too :mad::mad::mad:
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 4,940
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    gadders wrote: »
    Don't get me started on that one :mad: And primary school teachers too :mad::mad::mad:

    Primary school teachers used to go to teacher training colleges to do a B ed. Unfortunately everything is a university now.
  • slappers r usslappers r us Posts: 56,131
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    gadders wrote: »
    Don't get me started on that one :mad: And primary school teachers too :mad::mad::mad:
    yep I know what you mean

    my daughter has just gotten acceptance at Uni to be a Primary school teacher

    600 applicants for 100 places, you must now have two A levels at A grade to even get an interview

    She is now 21 and been working in holiday camps since she did her A levels
  • SystemSystem Posts: 2,096,970
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    Ruby Shoes wrote: »
    Primary school teachers used to go to teacher training colleges to do a B ed. Unfortunately everything is a university now.

    My aunt (the most intelligent person I know) was head mistress at a top school in Exeter (I can't remember the name but she was headhunted to go to St Pauls but turned it down because she didn't want to upheave her kids to move to London so you can imagine the calibre) - she never went to unversity. She just has something in her that makes her a good teacher and makes her understand kids and get the best out of them.
  • floraandfaunafloraandfauna Posts: 8,520
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    Theres one thing I dont get

    Why on earth do you have to go to Uni to be a nurse

    my Daughter in law to be just got a degree to do mental health nursing last year and her sister had to go for genral nursing both had to take out student loans

    now many moons ago when I left school anyone who wanted to nurse just had O levels and then went straight into nursing and had a day release to study for exams with no student loans because the day release wasnt to uni

    I have many friends who are District nurses / Midwives / Geriatric nurses and even Theater nurses and they never went to Uni

    Hate to disagree with you slappers but there are specialised nurses now and nursing has moved on a lot, we have nurses who can prescribe, diagnose, etc, the only thing they can't do is a sick note ;)
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 3,290
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    gadders wrote: »
    Agreed. And kids who aren't suited to academic subjects should be taken out of school and taught something that interests them. Bring back apprenticeships.

    Agree with that.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 12,613
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    Yes.
    But it should be full day teaching and learning courses as oppose to two hours a day for 5 years. The University should have the right to expel any student not attending lectures or doing the work.
  • Nadias_ballsNadias_balls Posts: 1,024
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    It's a big question with a lot of potential answers, but if I had to pick either yes or no, I'd say yes; but there has to be a great deal of change within the system to justify that.

    Firstly, I think attendance should become a prime factor in this. Anyone not putting in the work should receive a serious warning, those who decide not to change their ways should be kicked out.

    For courses that such as medicine and the like, for courses that would help boost the numbers of workers in areas the country is in desperate need of, Uni should be free.

    In other areas, that some might deem not as important, well Istill think they should be free if the university system makes it easier for students to find work after completing their degrees. I'm not saying Universities aren't doing that now, but there needs to be more effort to curb the number of students taking degrees just to have three years of doing more or less nothing, and walking away perfectly happy to go into any job, jobs they might have been able to get without a degree. A degree shouldn't be about increasing chances of getting a job someone would have been able to apply for beforehand with less fuss. Of course the nature of qualifying is to increase your chances of getting recruited, but if the government were to allow for free or cheaper education, then there needs to be a system which directs students into careers where they are notonly needed, but where their qualifications would benefit their areas of occupation.
  • bluebladeblueblade Posts: 88,859
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    njguy wrote: »
    what are your oppinions personally i think it should as long as its not used as a doss.

    It used to be free. But so many people jumped on the bandwagon, that they decided to impose a charge.
  • HampshireHannahHampshireHannah Posts: 1,088
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    No, I don't think University should be free. There are already too many people who value the social side of Uni far more than the academic side and essentially waste 3 years just getting drunk; if University is made free then it'll only encourage more people to go just to do that sort of thing.

    Ultimately if you go to University and do a worthwhile degree that requires hard work then when you graduate you'll be earning enough to pay off your student loan anyway. There might be a few exceptions to that rule, for example, I've heard that nurses don't earn much (well, in relation to what I think they should earn for all the long hours and demanding work that they do), but I think that the NHS partly fund nursing degrees as it is.
  • SystemSystem Posts: 2,096,970
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    njguy wrote: »
    what are your oppinions personally i think it should as long as its not used as a doss.

    The thread title contains an unnecessary question mark. The original post contains misspellings, incorrect grammar and wrong punctuation.

    A more salient point would be why on earth are you considering Higher Education?

    University education should be about the achievement of excellence in whatever field not as some sort of rite passage for any eighteen year old.

    I agree it should not be a "doss"
  • Nattie01Nattie01 Posts: 1,652
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    njguy wrote: »
    why would you want to limit education and not give it to the masses we are trying to do the opposite in countrys like africa.

    Because at the moment bars and supermarkets are awash with graduate employees, and not in managerial posts either, because they can't get a job where they can actually use their degrees.

    In the meantime tradesmen (if you can get hold of one) can hold you to ransom with exorbitant fees because there seems to so few plumbers, tillers, plasterers etc. around now because teenagers are not going into trades anymore. Could it be partly because they are being strongly encouraged to go to university?

    I did what many would consider a pointless degree – media studies – and I have to admit that I am not working in the media and had to work my way up from the bottom in my sector (civil service) to where I am now. In fact, I came into the Civil Service as an admin officer, which at the time only you needed 5 GCSEs for.


    As someone who enjoyed free tuition and the benefit of a full grant (showing my age here!) I can now see it wasn’t really the best use of taxpayers’ money and pretty much a waste of several years of my life, apart from the drinking and socialising of course. :D

    IMO we need a change in culture/policy where a university education is not seen as the be all and end all.
  • SystemSystem Posts: 2,096,970
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    Theres one thing I dont get

    Why on earth do you have to go to Uni to be a nurse

    my Daughter in law to be just got a degree to do mental health nursing last year and her sister had to go for genral nursing both had to take out student loans

    now many moons ago when I left school anyone who wanted to nurse just had O levels and then went straight into nursing and had a day release to study for exams with no student loans because the day release wasnt to uni

    I have many friends who are District nurses / Midwives / Geriatric nurses and even Theater nurses and they never went to Uni

    Why on earth did they need to take out loans?

    You do not pay ane fees for nursing course and also get a bursary to live on. My bursary is around £12,000 a year. Even the basic one is around £6,000
  • SystemSystem Posts: 2,096,970
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    Something I have been saying recently is that I blame a lot of this supposed 'yob', unruly teenage culture on University.
    Most of those that go do not grow up as fast as they use to. Many are at Uni until 23 or so. They are still in the mindset of going out, getting pi$$ed up and generally have little responsibilty. Those that don't go or know they will not be going are treated like a waste or space half of the time. The country now is so geared up for going to Uni that you are looked down upon if you don't.
    Go back a generation or so and kids left school at 16-18 knowing that they had to take responsibility for their lives. They left school, went and got a job, college or apprentiship and had to work hard. Of course they went out and enjoyed themselves as well, but with a responsibilty of knowing they had a job to hold down.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 4,940
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    AS1 wrote: »
    Something I have been saying recently is that I blame a lot of this supposed 'yob', unruly teenage culture on University.
    Most of those that go do not grow up as fast as they use to. Many are at Uni until 23 or so. They are still in the mindset of going out, getting pi$$ed up and generally have little responsibilty. Those that don't go or know they will not be going are treated like a waste or space half of the time. The country now is so geared up for going to Uni that you are looked down upon if you don't.
    Go back a generation or so and kids left school at 16-18 knowing that they had to take responsibility for their lives. They left school, went and got a job, college or apprentiship and had to work hard. Of course they went out and enjoyed themselves as well, but with a responsibilty of knowing they had a job to hold down.

    I'm not sure I agree with that. When I left home at 18 (I didn't go back) to go to university I had to manage renting my digs and the bills and trying to budget (as well as having a social life), learn to cook, do the washing etc etc. A lot of people don't leave home until their mid twenties or later now and don't learn those skills. I had no choice but to learn them. By the time I had left at the age of 21 I had negotiated and tussled with at least six landlords and my bank manager, and was a capable cook and housekeeper. I was totally self sufficient.

    My friend who left school in the 60's and got an apprentiship didn't leave home until he got married when he was about 23, his wife was 22. Neither had any housekeeping skills.
  • Mark.Mark. Posts: 84,804
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    MrsSpoon wrote: »
    Yes.
    But it should be full day teaching and learning courses as oppose to two hours a day for 5 years.
    You really don't appreciate the amount of work required, do you?
    The University should have the right to expel any student not attending lectures
    Why? Some people learn better from books.

    Our current rector got a 2:1 in History and didn't turn up to any lectures in the 4 years of the course.
    or doing the work.
    That I agree with...although it does actually happen already. If you don't do the coursework, you end up failing so get chucked out (eventually).
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 4,940
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    Mark™ wrote: »
    That I agree with...although it does actually happen already. If you don't do the coursework, you end up failing so get chucked out (eventually).

    No, you just get a lower qualification. It's a joke!! My sister didn't bother doing her final year dissertation and so couldn't get awarded her degree, they gave her a HND instead. The same happened to my sisters boyfriend, he didn't bother resitting some final year exams he had failed so they gave him a HND too. When I went to uni, if you did something like that in your final year you ended up with nothing.
  • Mark.Mark. Posts: 84,804
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    Ruby Shoes wrote: »
    No, you just get a lower qualification.
    Not in my course.

    You must do the coursework in order to pass. You can fail it, but you have to have handed something (other than just the cover sheet and some blank A4 or irrelevant nonsense) in.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 4,940
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    Mark™ wrote: »
    Not in my course.

    You must do the coursework in order to pass. You can fail it, but you have to have handed something (other than just the cover sheet and some blank A4 or irrelevant nonsense) in.

    That's what they told my sister...
  • stud u likestud u like Posts: 42,100
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    University was free for me. The Local Education Authority paid.
  • whybirdwhybird Posts: 410
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    You pay to go to university, you earn more at the end of it, you dont have to pay back your loan until you are earning enough money. So whats the problem?
  • The ManglerThe Mangler Posts: 1,890
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    I think that if students were actually at Uni from 9 - 5 and terms were at least the same as most schools, surely most of the courses offered nowadays would be completed within 18 months? Its a pathetic waste of time and money to be having 7 weeks off over Christmas and finish in early June until the middle of september.

    On another point brought up here, my sister is a snob of the highest order and believes that unless you have a degree you arent worth a thing. Her son completed his degree in Archaeology with a 2:2. Obviously she complained because no way could her son have spent the last three years pissing it up against a wall instead of actually studying, it had to be a lecturer's fault. Anyway, clearly not many jobs need an archaeologist - he now waits on tables in a hotel for a living.

    I agree with those who say bring back apprenticeships for the not so academically minded and get degrees back to being a top qualification. At least then when an employer takes on a graduate he has a rough idea of the calibre of person.
  • qixvixqixvix Posts: 10,879
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    Ruby Shoes wrote: »
    Yes it should be free but only the highest achievers should go to university (as in the past) unlike today where everyone goes and everything is a university. Maybe there would be a smaller drop out rate then too.

    I think an assessment to let people in is fairer than previous qualifications as so many exams etc these days are open book. Some people may have messed up in the past and then want a chance to prove themselves - saying that, an assessment to see if they are up to it is a better way IMO.

    One way could be everyone having a free one year introductory course, then those who can hack it can go on to free degree places.

    During my time at uni I have seen people work their ass off to get decent grades and others who have cheated, lied and coasted their way to the same marks - one big problem is those who get ECFs (extended time) for stress!! I can understand if someone's family members are killed in a horrific crash or something but just crying "I can't do it" should mean you have to leave - that is my opinion based on seeing people do just that to the uni and then they get longer to do the work - then they do it again and repeat modules etc.

    It is particularly disturburbing when the course is Psychology and many of those people then want to go on and be in charge of the mental and psychological well-being of others!!!

    There is one guy at my uni who is in his 30s - in first year he got A grades, but he kind of let slip that he had had a stab at this before - that did not stop him judging others who got lesser grades!! Then he got himself a foreign girlfriend and was hanging out with her all the time - so his grades did not suffer he went to the lecturers and told them he could do his coursework, but due to personal problems he could not do his exams - so the first semester of the second year he coasted - did his coursework, got As and had no revision to do for ages after everyone else. He is crap at exams so he got Bs, but as a lot of the marks in the modules were split between exam and coursework, overall he would leave with an A as he had more time to work on the coursework - he still was smug about his work.

    I mentioned that I was proud of one of my friends who never got an ECF and did pretty well on most assessments and this slacker guy got annoyed that I would have more respect for my 2:1 friend as I would for slacker man getting a 1st - I also said that the extra time would show up on his script when he left and employers would want to know why he took longer to complete!!

    Then second semester of second year he decided he would leave and come back to complete - so now he had a huge amount of time off - he did one assessment, got his A grade and was smug again - he has doen this all through uni - he came back for that extra year and now he has left again to return next year - this is all being paid for by the LEA and he even went to the head of the department and has managed to persuade him to put a remark on his script saying that he is an overall A student and he had to leave uni to work for a year - it is pure BS!! He is getting away with ripping off the LEA as they pay for his fees - he claims he suffers from stress and yet he wants to do NLP when he leaves and is qualified to counsel people, all because he wants control and money!!

    He did start to suffer from stress - stress that he would not get higher grades than anyone else and he called himself and his two male friends the A-team!!! The person who finished top of our cohort was a woman who worked her ass off and they would not let her in on a bet they had re; who would be top - just because she was female and "did not count"

    I have also seen people ride others coat tails in group work, steal coursework and copy it, lie to get better grades, lie to get more time, fall apart if they dont get an A - these people are arses and when it comes to Psychology and counselling I think we need more stable people

    There should also be a personal assessment aspect to any degree - social loafers and 'sickies' should be booted out IMO - a degree is far too easy to get
  • Cold WhispersCold Whispers Posts: 562
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    njguy wrote: »
    what are your oppinions personally i think it should as long as its not used as a doss.

    too many kids go to uni for the wrong reason. They go to booze it up and sleep around. They then end up flipping burgers for Mcdonalds.
  • SystemSystem Posts: 2,096,970
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    whybird wrote: »
    You pay to go to university, you earn more at the end of it, you dont have to pay back your loan until you are earning enough money. So whats the problem?

    This also applies to primary/secondary schools. The NHS* (we saved your life, now cough up the cash), fire-fighters and so on, and so on...


    It really is'nt much of an argument to say a person has got something from a state service so they should be required to pay in full for it.

    Else what the f**k is income tax all about?


    * just think of the amount of money a person earns throughout their life after life-saving surgery in their twenties. Should the government get an extra slice of a persons earnings? Is income tax not enough?
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