7% of people in the country attended private school.
34% of all serving MP's attended private school.
So elitism is definitely a problem.
But apathy to elitism is too. A big one.
So no, Heather could never become prime-minister. Nobody who believes things are fixed, unchangeable and the status-quo can never be altered could become prime-minister.
So 66% of MPs didn't attend private school.
Problem is with people like Harriet they expect everything should come to them. someone opens the door for her and say "c'mon love have a go". It has to be worked at.
Would a 10 yr old Harriet or Heather for that matter, ever aspire to becoming a politician. With so few working class role models in politics it's highly unlikely she'd ever put herself on a course which leads to politics. That's the problem.
She could start now if she wanted to. Get involved. Join a political party. Volunteer to assist with campaigns. Start campaigning for a charity, get involved in lobbying. There are all sorts of ways to get involved in politics if you want to try and make a difference. However no one is going to come knocking on your door and just hand it to you.
Would a 10 yr old Harriet or Heather for that matter, ever aspire to becoming a politician. With so few working class role models in politics it's highly unlikely she'd ever put herself on a course which leads to politics. That's the problem.
Surely she should have tried to put herself on a course that leads to better educational and personal outcomes?
Most of us knew early on we weren't going to be politicians but we wanted a decent education, decent careers and be able communicate effectively with others so we put in the work at school and built on our cultural capital .
While that is true, Harriet's biggest problem is her ignorance. She seems like one of those people whose happy to be ignorant and doesn't want to enlighten themselves on anything past the basics.
I personally find that the Council estate stereotype she's trying to peddle is offensive. Myself like many other people come from council estates have managed to get a decent education and are able to articulate ourselves well.
I'm not saying that underclass/working-class folks have an easy ride trying to access opportunities dominated by the upper classes but people like Harriet need to in part hold themselves personally responsible for the way they have turned out. Nothing is stopping her from expanding her vocab and acting a little more civilised.
I completely agree. I have two friends from working class backgrounds who now attend Oxford (doing biology) and Queen Mary (doing engineering). Both had plenty of struggles financially but what they had in common was an incredible work ethic.
Harriet shouts over people and then complains about being uneducated. It's as if she doesn't realise that to be educated you have to listen to other people. She puts so much effort into insisting she cannot achieve anything it's probably a self fulfilling prophecy.
Problem is with people like Harriet they expect everything should come to them. someone opens the door for her and say "c'mon love have a go". .
I think that's the opposite of what she thinks. I think she believes that door is firmly shut, locked, bolted, double-bolted and guarded by a attack dog wearing a top hat and a monocle. She has zero sense of entitlement and has accepted that's just the way things are and it can never change.
Surely she should have tried to put herself on a course that leads to better educational and personal outcomes?
Most of us knew early on we weren't going to be politicians but we wanted a decent education, decent careers and be able communicate effectively with others so we put in the work at school and built on our cultural capital .
I'm certain that if her father was, John Major, her Brother, John Prescott, she would value education a lot more than we are giving her credit for. I believe that if your role models go out and get pi**ed every night, you are, statistically speaking, more likely to do the same, and the value of education is greatly diminished. Is that the individuals fault, sure. But it's human nature, and there's not much point in telling a human to be anything other than human. Role models are crucial, and the political system in this country is a failure in this regard.
[QUOTE=Bacon&Eggs;78209659]I'm certain that if her father was, John Major, her Brother, John Prescott, she would value education a lot more than we are giving her credit for. I believe that if your role models go out and get pi**ed every night, you are, statistically speaking, more likely to do the same, and the value of education is greatly diminished. Is that the individuals fault, sure. But it's human nature, and there's not much point in telling a human to be anything other than human. Role models are crucial, and the political system in this country is a failure in this regard.[/QUOTE]
But the majority of us don't have the likes of politicians or blue-blooded figures as our parents. Whilst the political system is rife with class inequalities, Harriet should be picking the biggest bone with parents and herself. I wonder if the political system was an even playing field and all classes had equal access to it, Would you honestly want someone like Harriet (the way she currently is) within it?
Maybe this is harsh but i could understand if Harriet's gripe about politics was coming from someone like Sarah , Cristian or Keiran. They seem like people (regardless if you like them or not) that are somewhat educated and can express themselves in an articulated manner. No offence but Harriet seems way below these guys in terms of orating and mainstream knowledge. Her focus should be about how to 1st how to try and better herself .
I though Harriet was being a little unfair to Joel considering he is involved in politics himself and is hardly from some elitist class. I think he was talking about his own aspirations which she firmly pooed on
Anyone remember John Loughton from Big Brother: Celebrity Hijack in 2008? He was also involved in politics and wasn't Oxbridge educated either.
But the majority of us don't have the likes of politicians or blue-blooded figures as our parents. Whilst the political system is rife with class inequalities, Harriet should be picking the biggest bone with parents and herself. I wonder if the political system was an even playing field and all classes had equal access to it, Would you honestly want someone like Harriet (the way she currently is) within it?
Maybe this is harsh but i could understand if Harriet's gripe about politics was coming from someone like Sarah , Cristian or Keiran. They seem like people (regardless if you like them or not) that are somewhat educated and can express themselves in an articulated manner. No offence but Harriet seems way below these guys in terms of orating and mainstream knowledge. Her focus should be about how to 1st how to try and better herself .
A role model can be anyone, anyone that reflects the world that you believe exists. This fact is born out by the recent popularity of Russell Brand who speaks of a world full of greedy, cheating, upper-class, elitist's. He's charismatic and he's visible. This automatically makes him a role model to anyone that identifies with his perception of the status quo.
A role model of mine would be the late n great socialist politician Tony Benn, although i will admit i knew nothing about him until his death, after i'd done a little research and read his political opinions i remember asking myself "why the hell have i not heard of this guy before now" or at least some of his views spoken by one of his contemporaries. The answer of course is because those views do not exist in politics anymore, or if they do, they have been suppressed by a system which favours a certain view, an elitist view, fashioned in private schools and disproportionately dispensed from an unrepresentative parliament.
Harriet would make a terrible politician, wouldn't she, but my point still remains. Was the door open in her formative years, or does the fact that the political system is unrepresentative suggest the door is closed to working class kids?
Just to be clearer. i'm saying, Give the kids positive role models and they will aspire to be like them. Take them away and your screwing things up.
In her VT she was talking about how important politics is and about knowing whats going on in the country,
Then all of a sudden she think politics is rubbish and useless.
Joel did say he thought anyone "determined enough" could be prime minister, obviously he didnt mean anyone could just try out for it and win if they didnt care.
My main problem with Harriet is that she constantly wants people to feel sorry for her.
Her point is completely correct though. Without a good education, afforded by a middle class up bringing your chances of a major government position are near nil.
In my day, working class kids could have a grammar school education.
Comments
So 66% of MPs didn't attend private school.
Problem is with people like Harriet they expect everything should come to them. someone opens the door for her and say "c'mon love have a go". It has to be worked at.
She could start now if she wanted to. Get involved. Join a political party. Volunteer to assist with campaigns. Start campaigning for a charity, get involved in lobbying. There are all sorts of ways to get involved in politics if you want to try and make a difference. However no one is going to come knocking on your door and just hand it to you.
Neither do I. I was suggesting it as a possible reason for her outrageous socially unskilled behaviour.
Surely she should have tried to put herself on a course that leads to better educational and personal outcomes?
Most of us knew early on we weren't going to be politicians but we wanted a decent education, decent careers and be able communicate effectively with others so we put in the work at school and built on our cultural capital .
Oh. My apologies!
I completely agree. I have two friends from working class backgrounds who now attend Oxford (doing biology) and Queen Mary (doing engineering). Both had plenty of struggles financially but what they had in common was an incredible work ethic.
Harriet shouts over people and then complains about being uneducated. It's as if she doesn't realise that to be educated you have to listen to other people. She puts so much effort into insisting she cannot achieve anything it's probably a self fulfilling prophecy.
I think that's the opposite of what she thinks. I think she believes that door is firmly shut, locked, bolted, double-bolted and guarded by a attack dog wearing a top hat and a monocle. She has zero sense of entitlement and has accepted that's just the way things are and it can never change.
I'm certain that if her father was, John Major, her Brother, John Prescott, she would value education a lot more than we are giving her credit for. I believe that if your role models go out and get pi**ed every night, you are, statistically speaking, more likely to do the same, and the value of education is greatly diminished. Is that the individuals fault, sure. But it's human nature, and there's not much point in telling a human to be anything other than human. Role models are crucial, and the political system in this country is a failure in this regard.
But the majority of us don't have the likes of politicians or blue-blooded figures as our parents. Whilst the political system is rife with class inequalities, Harriet should be picking the biggest bone with parents and herself. I wonder if the political system was an even playing field and all classes had equal access to it, Would you honestly want someone like Harriet (the way she currently is) within it?
Maybe this is harsh but i could understand if Harriet's gripe about politics was coming from someone like Sarah , Cristian or Keiran. They seem like people (regardless if you like them or not) that are somewhat educated and can express themselves in an articulated manner. No offence but Harriet seems way below these guys in terms of orating and mainstream knowledge. Her focus should be about how to 1st how to try and better herself .
Anyone remember John Loughton from Big Brother: Celebrity Hijack in 2008? He was also involved in politics and wasn't Oxbridge educated either.
A role model can be anyone, anyone that reflects the world that you believe exists. This fact is born out by the recent popularity of Russell Brand who speaks of a world full of greedy, cheating, upper-class, elitist's. He's charismatic and he's visible. This automatically makes him a role model to anyone that identifies with his perception of the status quo.
A role model of mine would be the late n great socialist politician Tony Benn, although i will admit i knew nothing about him until his death, after i'd done a little research and read his political opinions i remember asking myself "why the hell have i not heard of this guy before now" or at least some of his views spoken by one of his contemporaries. The answer of course is because those views do not exist in politics anymore, or if they do, they have been suppressed by a system which favours a certain view, an elitist view, fashioned in private schools and disproportionately dispensed from an unrepresentative parliament.
Harriet would make a terrible politician, wouldn't she, but my point still remains. Was the door open in her formative years, or does the fact that the political system is unrepresentative suggest the door is closed to working class kids?
Just to be clearer. i'm saying, Give the kids positive role models and they will aspire to be like them. Take them away and your screwing things up.
Then all of a sudden she think politics is rubbish and useless.
Joel did say he thought anyone "determined enough" could be prime minister, obviously he didnt mean anyone could just try out for it and win if they didnt care.
My main problem with Harriet is that she constantly wants people to feel sorry for her.
Not just a working class PM. A working class Conservative PM.
Plus her interviews with Andrew Neil will be fun.
She was essentially right in her point though.