There is a town near me in the Midlands full of people who are 2nd and 3rd generation Scottish. They will always describe themselves as Scottish, and not English or British. They are known locally as plastic jocks
I don't think they can. They can be British, but not English. You can be from Africa and be British. If you are from Scotland you are British, but this dost not mean you are English. I was under the impression that you had to be of English ethnicity (i.e. had family here for hundreds of years in England) to be English, but anyone who is born here is British.
If English is a nationality then yes, if an ethnicity then no.
But even that makes no sense, because race is not tied to ethnicity all the time. Strictly speaking, a person can be British by nationality (actually, that IS the nationality, since that's what it says on the passport), English by ethnicity because they were born there, and non-white by race.
I'm not white, have lived here since I was a 1yr old, and don't think I'm English. When asked, I respond as being British.
I was born here and part of my family have lived in England for over 150 years but I usually use the term British.
English seems to b a loaded term and tied to race in other people's eyes.
English is a part of the caucasian gene pool, to be english you have some kind of link to that part of the pool.
British is a concept of several nationalities united in one state (english, scots, welsh and pretty much anyone who fancies it cause were cool like that :cool:)
as for midsomer murders if they did have a black guy they'd probably make him the murderer.
I don't think they can. They can be British, but not English. You can be from Africa and be British. If you are from Scotland you are British, but this dost not mean you are English. I was under the impression that you had to be of English ethnicity to be English, but anyone who is born here is British.
That sounds like nonsense. Define English ehnicity and how it differs from Scottish or Welsh/
English is a part of the caucasian gene pool, to be english you have some kind of link to that part of the pool.
British is a concept of several nationalities united in one state (english, scots, welsh and pretty much anyone who fancies it cause were cool like that :cool:)
as for midsomer murders if they did have a black guy they'd probably make him the murderer.
If that's the case (which I am not too sure it is), then I am more English than my child who was born here, since one of my great-grandparents was half-English. I'm not even from here.
I don't think they can. They can be British, but not English. You can be from Africa and be British. If you are from Scotland you are British, but this dost not mean you are English. I was under the impression that you had to be of English ethnicity (i.e. had family here for hundreds of years in England) to be English, but anyone who is born here is British.
They are interchangeable IMO.
Not everyone born in Britain is happy to identify themselves as British ya'know.
Plenty of people will be English, Scottish, Welsh or Northern Irish without wanting to call or consider themselves British.
I doubt English enthnicity could be defined and isolated. Northern European maybe, even British but not English.
I have no idea why not. If we take the Wiki definition
"An ethnic group (or ethnicity) is a group of people whose members identify with each other, through a common heritage, often consisting of a common language, a common culture (often including a shared religion) and an ideology that stresses common ancestry or endogamy"
English fits the bill, as do Wales, Scottish, Irish etc. Certainly fits the bill more than "Northern European"
That sounds like nonsense. Define English ehnicity and how it differs from Scottish or Welsh/
I don’t want to get into a debate; I define someone being English, Scottish and so on as someone who is from a family who has been settled in a country for hundreds of years, as most Scottish and English people have been. My option may not be correct, but that is what I believe.
I have no idea why not. If we take the Wiki definition
"An ethnic group (or ethnicity) is a group of people whose members identify with each other, through a common heritage, often consisting of a common language, a common culture (often including a shared religion) and an ideology that stresses common ancestry or endogamy"
English fits the bill, as do Wales, Scottish, Irish etc. Certainly fits the bill more than "Northern European"
'English' people are made up of multiple ethnicities.
The only common feature being I suppose we are all European as the Romans, the Vikings, the Celts and so forth were all from different parts of Europe.
But going back further we are more from the African-Asian part of the world (taking into consideration a different continental layout all those years ago)
I have no idea why not. If we take the Wiki definition
"An ethnic group (or ethnicity) is a group of people whose members identify with each other, through a common heritage, often consisting of a common language, a common culture (often including a shared religion) and an ideology that stresses common ancestry or endogamy"
English fits the bill, as do Wales, Scottish, Irish etc. Certainly fits the bill more than "Northern European"
But I would argue that you could easily divide up the North and South of England into 2 ethnic groups. And what about places like Berek upton Tweed,, what ethnic group do they belong to? Scottish/English? Culturally and physically theres little that separates some areas of different nationalities.
But even that makes no sense, because race is not tied to ethnicity all the time. Strictly speaking, a person can be British by nationality (actually, that IS the nationality, since that's what it says on the passport), English by ethnicity because they were born there, and non-white by race.
Ethnicity is not about where you are born, hence why we talk about minority ethnic groups even though it's members may have been born here. A child of Pakistani immigrants would be British by nationality and Pakistani by ethnicity, likewise the child of English immigrants born in Pakistan may be Pakistani by nationality but English by ethnicity.
His point was, From how i understood it, He said, the typical English sleepy village doesn't have any residents from ethnic minorities, But i think from the T.V. company's point of view they wanted to be seen as "P.C." and culturally diverse and asked him to include characters from ethnic minorities.
No they didn't... nothing to do with PC
Someone asked him a simple question, "why no ethnic minority characters?"
His response hinted that by portraying Midsomer as whites only, he was defending middle England from an invasion by ethnic minorities.
He also made some snide comments about Slough, which singled him out as a daft racist. In those circumstances, a suspension was the least he deserved.
I don't think they can. They can be British, but not English. You can be from Africa and be British. If you are from Scotland you are British, but this dost not mean you are English. I was under the impression that you had to be of English ethnicity (i.e. had family here for hundreds of years in England) to be English, but anyone who is born here is British.
I think the likes of Ian Wright and Rio Ferdinand and Rory Underwood and Jason Robinson and quite a lot of other professional sportsmen who line up for interational duty in an England shirt might disagree with you there
You don't tend to see ethnics in the country. Locally there might be 2 or 3 in the villages but no where near as many in the towns and only in the last 5 years have they appeared. Before the local area was white. It is slowly getting more multicultural but people don't like it and they moan to the politicans like mad about the violent foreigners not speaking English and living in ghettos not mixing with the indigenous people.
The same can be said for the theatre or the cinema.
i'm sure you are correct,but i did say it was disquieting to see no ethnic minorities
overlooking the pc aspect,having no ethnics also detracts from the reality and instead helps to promote an abstract representation
i'm sure you are correct,but i did say it was disquieting to see no ethnic minorities
overlooking the pc aspect,having no ethnics also detracts from the reality and instead helps to promote an abstract representation
Have you ever been to a little tiddly village in the countryside, in real life?
Midsomer is a very accurate reflection of the ethnic make up of such places, based on the ones I've been to, up and down the country.
I don’t want to get into a debate; I define someone being English, Scottish and so on as someone who is from a family who has been settled in a country for hundreds of years, as most Scottish and English people have been. My option may not be correct, but that is what I believe.
You're entitled to your own opinion, but you're not entitled to your own facts. Believe it or not, this kind of thing is very important.
So where would you place my kids? One born in England, one in Scotland. Dad's white Scottish, mom's black American. Dad's family has been in Scotland probably since the time of the Picts. Mom has a bit of English ancestery. For some people, by way of being brown, my children will never be English or British even.
But if you've lived in England for practially your whole life doesnt that also make you English?
They can only be English if they were born in England or have English ethnticity, unless they have either of those they're not English or even British.
i'm sure you are correct,but i did say it was disquieting to see no ethnic minorities
overlooking the pc aspect,having no ethnics also detracts from the reality and instead helps to promote an abstract representation
Hmm, I will say one thing here... this isn't true.
I don't agree with the sentiments in the opening post by the way, just in case this comes across as such..
But there are plenty of places in the UK where ethnic minorities don't live, at all, because they just never moved there. My Mum is from a village in Wales and to this day there are virtually no ethnic minorities. Some Welsh Chinese run the chippy, and there was a big fuss when the 'first black person in the village' moved in.
I live in the South East, in an area which is about 90% Asian in ethnicity.. but in some parts of the country there isn't any sort of ethnic minority.
I think the likes of Ian Wright and Rio Ferdinand and Rory Underwood and Jason Robinson and quite a lot of other professional sportsmen who line up for interational duty in an England shirt might disagree with you there
That may be the case.
Football teams are not national anymore; they are international businesses which seek to make a profit. Many teams now use players from other countries. Therefore, football cannot be applied to this discussion.
Ethnicity is not about where you are born, hence why we talk about minority ethnic groups even though it's members may have been born here. A child of Pakistani immigrants would be British by nationality and Pakistani by ethnicity, likewise the child of English immigrants born in Pakistan may be Pakistani by nationality but English by ethnicity.
Nor is it about the colour of your skin, but it can be about where you or your parents were born. Likewise, that same Pakistani child may not identify with anything to do with being Pakistani and may decide to call himself Asian British or just English, because all of their traditions and customs are from this country. This is common in the USA-- so much so that I met many people that I now know are Pakistani, but because they had nothing to do with the culture, did not call themselves that. I have no ethnicity at all.
Comments
I doubt English enthnicity could be defined and isolated. Northern European maybe, even British but not English.
But even that makes no sense, because race is not tied to ethnicity all the time. Strictly speaking, a person can be British by nationality (actually, that IS the nationality, since that's what it says on the passport), English by ethnicity because they were born there, and non-white by race.
I was born here and part of my family have lived in England for over 150 years but I usually use the term British.
English seems to b a loaded term and tied to race in other people's eyes.
British is a concept of several nationalities united in one state (english, scots, welsh and pretty much anyone who fancies it cause were cool like that :cool:)
as for midsomer murders if they did have a black guy they'd probably make him the murderer.
That sounds like nonsense. Define English ehnicity and how it differs from Scottish or Welsh/
If that's the case (which I am not too sure it is), then I am more English than my child who was born here, since one of my great-grandparents was half-English. I'm not even from here.
They are interchangeable IMO.
Not everyone born in Britain is happy to identify themselves as British ya'know.
Plenty of people will be English, Scottish, Welsh or Northern Irish without wanting to call or consider themselves British.
I have no idea why not. If we take the Wiki definition
"An ethnic group (or ethnicity) is a group of people whose members identify with each other, through a common heritage, often consisting of a common language, a common culture (often including a shared religion) and an ideology that stresses common ancestry or endogamy"
English fits the bill, as do Wales, Scottish, Irish etc. Certainly fits the bill more than "Northern European"
I don’t want to get into a debate; I define someone being English, Scottish and so on as someone who is from a family who has been settled in a country for hundreds of years, as most Scottish and English people have been. My option may not be correct, but that is what I believe.
'English' people are made up of multiple ethnicities.
The only common feature being I suppose we are all European as the Romans, the Vikings, the Celts and so forth were all from different parts of Europe.
But going back further we are more from the African-Asian part of the world (taking into consideration a different continental layout all those years ago)
But I would argue that you could easily divide up the North and South of England into 2 ethnic groups. And what about places like Berek upton Tweed,, what ethnic group do they belong to? Scottish/English? Culturally and physically theres little that separates some areas of different nationalities.
Ethnicity is not about where you are born, hence why we talk about minority ethnic groups even though it's members may have been born here. A child of Pakistani immigrants would be British by nationality and Pakistani by ethnicity, likewise the child of English immigrants born in Pakistan may be Pakistani by nationality but English by ethnicity.
No they didn't... nothing to do with PC
Someone asked him a simple question, "why no ethnic minority characters?"
His response hinted that by portraying Midsomer as whites only, he was defending middle England from an invasion by ethnic minorities.
He also made some snide comments about Slough, which singled him out as a daft racist. In those circumstances, a suspension was the least he deserved.
Because I do. I am English.
Actually, on reflection, I think it's a ridiculous question OP, sorry.
ETA: Not having a go OP, I've re-read your opening post and now see why you're asking it.
I think the likes of Ian Wright and Rio Ferdinand and Rory Underwood and Jason Robinson and quite a lot of other professional sportsmen who line up for interational duty in an England shirt might disagree with you there
i'm sure you are correct,but i did say it was disquieting to see no ethnic minorities
overlooking the pc aspect,having no ethnics also detracts from the reality and instead helps to promote an abstract representation
Have you ever been to a little tiddly village in the countryside, in real life?
Midsomer is a very accurate reflection of the ethnic make up of such places, based on the ones I've been to, up and down the country.
You're entitled to your own opinion, but you're not entitled to your own facts. Believe it or not, this kind of thing is very important.
So where would you place my kids? One born in England, one in Scotland. Dad's white Scottish, mom's black American. Dad's family has been in Scotland probably since the time of the Picts. Mom has a bit of English ancestery. For some people, by way of being brown, my children will never be English or British even.
They can only be English if they were born in England or have English ethnticity, unless they have either of those they're not English or even British.
You know this is a discussion forum, right?
Hmm, I will say one thing here... this isn't true.
I don't agree with the sentiments in the opening post by the way, just in case this comes across as such..
But there are plenty of places in the UK where ethnic minorities don't live, at all, because they just never moved there. My Mum is from a village in Wales and to this day there are virtually no ethnic minorities. Some Welsh Chinese run the chippy, and there was a big fuss when the 'first black person in the village' moved in.
I live in the South East, in an area which is about 90% Asian in ethnicity.. but in some parts of the country there isn't any sort of ethnic minority.
That may be the case.
Football teams are not national anymore; they are international businesses which seek to make a profit. Many teams now use players from other countries. Therefore, football cannot be applied to this discussion.
Nor is it about the colour of your skin, but it can be about where you or your parents were born. Likewise, that same Pakistani child may not identify with anything to do with being Pakistani and may decide to call himself Asian British or just English, because all of their traditions and customs are from this country. This is common in the USA-- so much so that I met many people that I now know are Pakistani, but because they had nothing to do with the culture, did not call themselves that. I have no ethnicity at all.