Why only two options, some of us have not yet decided?
I assume because like the Scottish referendum those are the only two options we will get In or Out , nearly a big mistake by Cameron on that one, lets hope he listens and gives us three options on the EU vote, if they get in as we wont get a vote with anyone else ( well anyone likely to get in that is ) .
At the moment, I am an 'out' mainly due to the migration levels from the EU.
I certainly welcome highly skilled immigrants, but not unskilled. We have enough unskilled people in the UK already looking for work. On top of that, all these people coming into the UK puts pressure on the housing market, and infrastructure such as schools, hospitals, roads, etc.
If the EU/UK together could stop the flow of people coming into the UK, then I would be more pro-EU. This is my ideal solution at the present time.
Assuming my ideal solution is not possible, I would also like to see more 'facts' such as what large businesses are most like to do if we said 'out', proposed effects on the economy etc, before making a final decision too.
I assume because like the Scottish referendum those are the only two options we will get In or Out , nearly a big mistake by Cameron on that one, lets hope he listens and gives us three options on the EU vote, if they get in as we wont get a vote with anyone else ( well anyone likely to get in that is ) .
What three options? With the EU, I believe the only options available are 'in' or 'out'?
As opposed to the current EU policies for the EU which are terrible for the continent as a whole? No job creation. A declining trading block. Excessive regulation. Lack of democracy where members of the EU are not democracies.
Why not stay in and fundamentally change the Union in co-operation with other members? ... people don't seem to realise for all the benefits of being outside the EU there are 10 to stay in.
Same here. I would in the past have instinctively voted yes because all the vocal opposition to the EU seems to come from the hard right nationalist sphere of politics. However, as my political opinions have developed, I glowingly dislike the idea of increasingly centralised power such as we see with the EU or even Westminster and Whitehall. It's such a pity that the quality of debate and information about the issue is so poor.
It's quite interesting to see right-wing Eurosceptics using a lot of the same arguments and sentiment as the Scottish YES campaign when they talk about Europe when they had to counter those very attitudes in opposing Scottish independence.
Certainly a whiff of hypocrisy in the air, although the left-wing, pro EU, pro Scottish independence camp are guilty as well.
But ending a 300 year old, fully integrated union is a far bigger leap into the unknown than coming out of the EU, there will also be no uncertainty regarding currency and financial institutions that caused many in Scotland to vote no.
If we ever get a referendum on EU membership in its current form ( I have my doubts) I will be voting to leave.
Certainly a whiff of hypocrisy in the air, although the left-wing, pro EU, pro Scottish independence camp are guilty as well.
But ending a 300 year old, fully integrated union is a far bigger leap into the unknown than coming out of the EU, there will also be no uncertainty regarding currency and financial institutions that caused many in Scotland to vote no.
If we ever get a referendum on EU membership in its current form ( I have my doubts) I will be voting to leave.
I agree with this point on the union. Until the start of this year, I was a lifelong stay in. Then I shifted to leave. In the last week, I have moved to abstain. The UKIP thing isn't quite doing it for me now. There are too many unknowns.
The Scottish stuff had a very negative impact on me. One answer politics is insufficient. That everything will be wonderful if Scotland has full powers. Everything will be wonderful if we leave the EU. I am not buying it or the self-congratulatory insularity of the political groupings. They are currently too much like religious cults for my liking.
Certainly a whiff of hypocrisy in the air, although the left-wing, pro EU, pro Scottish independence camp are guilty as well.
But ending a 300 year old, fully integrated union is a far bigger leap into the unknown than coming out of the EU, there will also be no uncertainty regarding currency and financial institutions that caused many in Scotland to vote no.
If we ever get a referendum on EU membership in its current form ( I have my doubts) I will be voting to leave.
eurosceptics believe EU isnt working for them and that Brussels is corrupt to its core
Scottish independence supporters believe the union isn't working for them and that Westminster is corrupt to the core.
I cant wait to see how the right wing middle englanders react when the establishment comes out in force with its propaganda wing, the BBC, spreading fear and lies
Why not stay in and fundamentally change the Union in co-operation with other members? ... people don't seem to realise for all the benefits of being outside the EU there are 10 to stay in.
For your country like yours which is a net beneficiary at ours and Germany's expense there is a monetary reason to stay in. For countries like ours which are a net contributor propping up economies like yours there certainly isn't a monetary reason to stay in.
There is also a democratic question. None of the EU countries can call themselves democracies if they have given powers away to Brussels. This especially applies to Eurozone countries who have given the right away to control their economic destiny. Which is the cornerstone of a democracy.
And the people in Brussels show no desire to change whatsover. The Eurozone economy is an absolute disaster on the whole. It's being going on for years and they've dine sweet fanny Adams about it.
The politicians in Europe should all be fired and national governments must and should reign supreme.
I cant wait to see how the right wing middle englanders react when the establishment comes out in force with its propaganda wing, the BBC, spreading fear and lies
The BBC has always been pro EU membership - what are you expecting to change?
Aren't we meant to wait to see what reforms are agreed to before we vote? Voting now is pointless as no party is offering a referendum on the current circumstances.
Aren't we meant to wait to see what reforms are agreed to before we vote? Voting now is pointless as no party is offering a referendum on the current circumstances.
no reforms will be signed, sealed and delivered before the vote, there simply isnt time.
If scotland did vote for independence did they not want to join the eu which would be weird because they want would not really be gaining independence
I'm anti-europe, but i come at it from the left,not the right. EU is very much designed by big business FOR big business. I'm probably in the minority on the issue in Scotland though.
EU seems further away , the union is far more relevant to us as it directly impacts our lives in a way that Europe does not...at the moment anyway.
I'm anti-europe, but i come at it from the left,not the right. EU is very much designed by big business FOR big business. I'm probably in the minority on the issue in Scotland though.
EU seems further away , the union is far more relevant to us as it directly impacts our lives in a way that Europe does not...at the moment anyway.
The EU directly impacts pretty much everything in our lives whatever country in the UK you live in. From the food you eat to the type of appliances you have in your home. Not one person alive gave them permission to do that.
The EU directly impacts pretty much everything in our lives whatever country in the UK you live in. From the food you eat to the type of appliances you have in your home. Not one person alive gave them permission to do that.
i agree to an extent, but we dont see it directly. I think Westminster and Brussels are both bad for Scotland, but Westminster is the most visible and as a result more immediate.
Currently, it's just not something Scots get riled about.
Comments
Thanks for that comprehensive level of detail.
Why only two options, some of us have not yet decided?
Jonathan!
I assume because like the Scottish referendum those are the only two options we will get In or Out , nearly a big mistake by Cameron on that one, lets hope he listens and gives us three options on the EU vote, if they get in as we wont get a vote with anyone else ( well anyone likely to get in that is ) .
I certainly welcome highly skilled immigrants, but not unskilled. We have enough unskilled people in the UK already looking for work. On top of that, all these people coming into the UK puts pressure on the housing market, and infrastructure such as schools, hospitals, roads, etc.
If the EU/UK together could stop the flow of people coming into the UK, then I would be more pro-EU. This is my ideal solution at the present time.
Assuming my ideal solution is not possible, I would also like to see more 'facts' such as what large businesses are most like to do if we said 'out', proposed effects on the economy etc, before making a final decision too.
What three options? With the EU, I believe the only options available are 'in' or 'out'?
The other one is 'shake it all about'.
That's what it's all about!
without a doubt.
Certainly a whiff of hypocrisy in the air, although the left-wing, pro EU, pro Scottish independence camp are guilty as well.
But ending a 300 year old, fully integrated union is a far bigger leap into the unknown than coming out of the EU, there will also be no uncertainty regarding currency and financial institutions that caused many in Scotland to vote no.
If we ever get a referendum on EU membership in its current form ( I have my doubts) I will be voting to leave.
I agree with this point on the union. Until the start of this year, I was a lifelong stay in. Then I shifted to leave. In the last week, I have moved to abstain. The UKIP thing isn't quite doing it for me now. There are too many unknowns.
The Scottish stuff had a very negative impact on me. One answer politics is insufficient. That everything will be wonderful if Scotland has full powers. Everything will be wonderful if we leave the EU. I am not buying it or the self-congratulatory insularity of the political groupings. They are currently too much like religious cults for my liking.
eurosceptics believe EU isnt working for them and that Brussels is corrupt to its core
Scottish independence supporters believe the union isn't working for them and that Westminster is corrupt to the core.
I cant wait to see how the right wing middle englanders react when the establishment comes out in force with its propaganda wing, the BBC, spreading fear and lies
For your country like yours which is a net beneficiary at ours and Germany's expense there is a monetary reason to stay in. For countries like ours which are a net contributor propping up economies like yours there certainly isn't a monetary reason to stay in.
There is also a democratic question. None of the EU countries can call themselves democracies if they have given powers away to Brussels. This especially applies to Eurozone countries who have given the right away to control their economic destiny. Which is the cornerstone of a democracy.
And the people in Brussels show no desire to change whatsover. The Eurozone economy is an absolute disaster on the whole. It's being going on for years and they've dine sweet fanny Adams about it.
The politicians in Europe should all be fired and national governments must and should reign supreme.
Sarcy git Lol. It's not difficult to work out what I am saying. Plus, being in the EU affects you guys as much as the other 3 countries in the EU.
The BBC has always been pro EU membership - what are you expecting to change?
the bbc has always been anti independence, but the onslaught in the final 2 weeks of the campaign was ferocious
just wait till business, banks, bbc, politicians tell you how bad leaving the EU is during the campaign with nary a dissenting voice.
at least you won't have the FULL media against you, like we did.
no reforms will be signed, sealed and delivered before the vote, there simply isnt time.
for "reforms" read "more powers to scotland"
If scotland did vote for independence did they not want to join the eu which would be weird because they want would not really be gaining independence
I'm anti-europe, but i come at it from the left,not the right. EU is very much designed by big business FOR big business. I'm probably in the minority on the issue in Scotland though.
EU seems further away , the union is far more relevant to us as it directly impacts our lives in a way that Europe does not...at the moment anyway.
The EU directly impacts pretty much everything in our lives whatever country in the UK you live in. From the food you eat to the type of appliances you have in your home. Not one person alive gave them permission to do that.
i agree to an extent, but we dont see it directly. I think Westminster and Brussels are both bad for Scotland, but Westminster is the most visible and as a result more immediate.
Currently, it's just not something Scots get riled about.