Also, I have been seeing more criticism on here than I have ever seen
You see what you want to see. It's called confirmation bias.
I personally haven't noticed any change in the amount of criticism at all over the past few years. That could well be confirmation bias on my part as well, but the only way to find out would be a proper statistical analysis of all the comments after an episode... and I don't think anyone could be bothered doing that.
I think you need to look up 'everyone' in a dictionary.
He also needs to look up 'average'. This episode had a plot that stretched from 1990s England to pre-Time War Gallifrey via the end of the universe but still managed to be the closest thing nuWho will ever do to pure historical. Like it or hate it, that's not average. That's very, very unusual.
OTOH 'Deep Breath' and 'Into the Dalek' were average episodes. Straightforward, typical, unremarkable, does-what-it-says-on-the-tin episodes. That's why they were so popular with fans who like that sort of thing. (And why they left me cold. Give me the weird and unusual any day, as long as it's done well of course.)
You see what you want to see. It's called confirmation bias.
I personally haven't noticed any change in the amount of criticism at all over the past few years. That could well be confirmation bias on my part as well, but the only way to find out would be a proper statistical analysis of all the comments after an episode... and I don't think anyone could be bothered doing that.
I don't really come on here that much but in contrast to say, series 5 I think the criticism has went up loads. I for one, really dislike series 5 but it was generally considered to be good among Dr Who fans.
Now we are in series 8 and although a lot of people like it, a lot of people also really dislike it. It seems a lot more split to me rather than the general consensus being 'good'.
I dunno, maybe it is confirmation bias but I think this forum criticizes the show a lot more than past series.
I always see people going on about how good the new series is, when there a plenty of bad episodes in nuwho.
'Listen' is a good example of this everyone is saying how it is one of he best episodes in the series when it was an average episode at best. What I also found annoying is that Clara became a plot device again just when she was becoming to feel like a person.
I always see people going on about how good the new series is, when there a plenty of bad episodes in nuwho.
'Listen' is a good example of this everyone is saying how it is one of he best episodes in the series when it was an average episode at best. What I also found annoying is that Clara became a plot device again just when she was becoming to feel like a person.
There are even people who think series 7 is good
I have been very underwhelmed by the 4 episodes so far. There have been good bits to each, but not a completely outstanding one.
Why do I still watch Dr Who ? Its still preferable to most other programs on terrestrial TV.
However, there was far too much Clara and she seemed to be in charge of the Doctor, giving him orders and telling him to shut up, and this I do not like.
I like this Doctor, but the programme was rubbish and disappointing (for me); and that is very unusual for me.
Usually I love the programme and have done for many years, but, no, I didn't like this evening's episode. I kept watching to the end, but I really didn't like it so I feel sad now.
Everyone is allowed an opinion. By the way, mine has been rubbished / patronised, but I stick to it.
And I really will not respond to anyone that asks me such questions as weren't you watching.
Get in the TARDIS, NOW, Do as I tell you!!!
Maybe people have asked you to watch it again because you missed quotes like that from Capaldi ?
This forum will primarily be dedicated Doctor Who fans, so I'm not expecting a great deal of impartial, honest debate.
I've enjoyed Doctor Who on and off, so am happy to say things as I see them and not defend the show for the sake of it.
What jars me is the constant flitting between comic book episodes like Robots of Sherwood and the more celebral episodes like Listen. It's like a continual identity crisis.
I'd like something a bit in between - a lot of the Eccleston episodes were like that - edgier, thought-provoking yet plenty of action too.
As the new era of Doctor Who has evolved, it's becoming more and more obsessed with the relationships and chemistry between characters and there's been such a turnover that it gets a bit tiresome.
Not to mention the almost literal iron lung that is the Daleks. Some fresh, new ideas would be nice, especially with the bigger budget and special effects to hand.
I dip in most weeks but some episodes are tough to persevere with - it's either uninspiring story lines to shoehorn in yet another historical character or an over-thought study in navel gazing.
Other characters and sub-plots dominate and reduce the Doctor to a quirky side-show.
And as for those calling him "12"... Jesus wept how pretentious is that??
The series and its fans take it too seriously and both are in danger of disappearing up their own backsides. It needs to find a balance before the critics really start to turn on it.
I'm fully expecting the obsessives to now go into full defence mode, rather than admit the series has its issues...
Not going to be remotely defensive but "twelve" is shorthand so people know who you mean, surely. Like David is Ten. Otherwise you keep having to say "Capaldi's Doctor" etc. Don't see any pretentiousness there myself.
If you really wanted to you could quite easily pull apart all the Classic Who episodes. In fact I have a Doctor Who reference book were people did just that. The equivalent of the moaning, droning, bores were about even in the Sixties.
I personally come into each episode with the view to enjoying each episode. I do not understand why people would do otherwise.
Re: Ecclestone. He had farting-aliens and the second episode was played for laughs as much as Robot of Sherwood was.
The relationship issue is the fact that Doctor Who is written for modern audiences just as much as Classic Who was written for the audiences of that time. You can see the similarities between shows like I Claudius and Classic Who in the way they were written and acted. I can put up with the Danny/Clara scenes if we get an episode like yesterdays which was thought -provoking and didn't rely on CGI monsters.
It is not just New Who fans looking at the show through rose-tinted spectacles - if you know what I mean.
Can a forum have an opinion? No. Forums are a collection of opinions and debates by the people using them. The opinions expressed on this or any other forum are as varied as the people expressing them.
Is Doctor Who problem free or perfect? No.
Are there good and bad episodes? Yes.
Does everyone agree on what the problems are or which are the good and the bad episodes? No. (I refer you to my first "answer").
Plenty of people come here to express their opinions of Doctor Who and rightly so.
Many people come here in the belief that their view is obviously the only correct view and with the expectation that everyone will agree with it.
Unfortunately some get a bit upset when those opinions are challenged or even if they're simply asked to explain why they make an assertion like "That was sh!t". For some it's aggressive/patronizing/insulting to even question their assertions.
Also unfortunately some denizens of this forum over the years get a bit tired of opinion repeatedly given as fact (even if by many different posters) and their responses can be aggressive/patronizing/insulting. The same points raised over and over again (albeit by different posters, often) does get irksome.
It's a forum. Expect your opinions, especially if they're controversial, to be questioned.
It's a Doctor Who forum populated (largely) by Doctor Who fans. Expect negative opinions to be questioned and supported.
And as for those calling him "12"... Jesus wept how pretentious is that??
There's nothing even remotely pretentious about it. It's shorthand so people can easily tell which Doctor people are talking about. The Doctors have always been referred to by a number, probably since Troughton's days so drop the attitude.
I love classic Who and rewatched the Seventh
I am watching the horror channel and loving them
But I don't like Nu-who and I see lots of criticism -some can be badly explained though
Moffat can be a brilliant writer and so can Gatiss
It's just like soaps, people watch it because they're interested to see what's going to happen. Sometimes they enjoy it, sometimes not, sometimes they're full of praise, sometimes they say it was dull or rubbish or whatever. IMO its a bit weird to take it all very seriously, it's just a bit of fun that sometimes manages to excel. I don't enjoy everything in all the episodes I watch, but I usually find something that makes it worth watching.
There's nothing even remotely pretentious about it. It's shorthand so people can easily tell which Doctor people are talking about. The Doctors have always been referred to by a number, probably since Troughton's days so drop the attitude.
Not, not always. In the past, they were referred to by ordinals (1st, 2nd, 3rd, etc.) It's only in the last 10 years or so that people have started using simple numbers instead. I think maybe people are just too lazy to type the "th" bit at the end, but whatever the reason, it just plain looks wrong to anyone old enough to remember the proper way of doing it.
There's nothing even remotely pretentious about it. It's shorthand so people can easily tell which Doctor people are talking about. The Doctors have always been referred to by a number, probably since Troughton's days so drop the attitude.
I don't find it pretentious either, but I do find it irritating when there's no need for it. As far as we know, there are no other Doctors apart from Peter Capaldi in this series, so there's no need to refer to him as anything other than 'The Doctor'. If we were talking about The Day Of The Doctor or some other multi-doctor story, then you'd break out the numbering.
Not, not always. In the past, they were referred to by ordinals (1st, 2nd, 3rd, etc.) It's only in the last 10 years or so that people have started using simple numbers instead. I think maybe people are just too lazy to type the "th" bit at the end, but whatever the reason, it just plain looks wrong to anyone old enough to remember the proper way of doing it.
It isn't lazy, it is evolving grammar. I never use th or st when dating letters at work and I am not the only one - check out a utility bill or a letter from a government body. 12th, 2nd, 3rd is not only unnecessary but it looks out-dated in a modern world...and I was around when Doctor Who v.1 came into being
On topic: I haven't really got anything to add. As GDK says, most of us here are fans of the show, so it especially feels like trolling when someone has nothing to say except "wtf was that?" after a show that is otherwise receiving a particularly good reception. I can ignore (at will) posters of that type but enjoy reading opposing views - TheSloth's post up there is full of opinion I can respect even if I don't share it.
It isn't lazy, it is evolving grammar. I never use th or st when dating letters at work and I am not the only one - check out a utility bill or a letter from a government body.
Well, if you really want your posts to read like a utility bill, that's your choice.
12th, 2nd, 3rd is not only unnecessary but it looks out-dated in a modern world...
Which is usually a good sign that something is right.
and I was around when Doctor Who v.1 came into being
So you should be more than old enough to hate the modern world by now.
This forum will primarily be dedicated Doctor Who fans, so I'm not expecting a great deal of impartial, honest debate.
I've enjoyed Doctor Who on and off, so am happy to say things as I see them and not defend the show for the sake of it.
What jars me is the constant flitting between comic book episodes like Robots of Sherwood and the more celebral episodes like Listen. It's like a continual identity crisis.
I'd like something a bit in between - a lot of the Eccleston episodes were like that - edgier, thought-provoking yet plenty of action too.
As the new era of Doctor Who has evolved, it's becoming more and more obsessed with the relationships and chemistry between characters and there's been such a turnover that it gets a bit tiresome.
Not to mention the almost literal iron lung that is the Daleks. Some fresh, new ideas would be nice, especially with the bigger budget and special effects to hand.
I dip in most weeks but some episodes are tough to persevere with - it's either uninspiring story lines to shoehorn in yet another historical character or an over-thought study in navel gazing.
Other characters and sub-plots dominate and reduce the Doctor to a quirky side-show.
And as for those calling him "12"... Jesus wept how pretentious is that??
The series and its fans take it too seriously and both are in danger of disappearing up their own backsides. It needs to find a balance before the critics really start to turn on it.
I'm fully expecting the obsessives to now go into full defence mode, rather than admit the series has its issues...
Every TV show has issues, just not sure the issues I think Doctor Who has are the same as the ones you list. I don't understand your point exactly about 12th so I'll just skip past that one.
I don't think you actually believe there has been a shortage of new ideas right ? do you have a problem with Daleks? think about what your sentence says. One of Ecclestones' best episodes was against, err, let me think, oh yeah, a Dalek. His entire season he played a man racked with guilt of the terrible thing he did to his own race and ... the daleks. His entire series arc and final episode revolved around .... the Daleks. Since Eccleston I can immediately name the following new aliens, weeping angels, vasta nerada, the silence. New friends, fat comedy bloke and his kid stormageddon, vastra and the paternoster gang. New ideas, timelords can hide themselves in fob watches, Tardis has telepathic circuits, tardis comes alive ......
Whats the issue with turnover, are you taking the show too seriously now perhaps? Do you not realise these are real people, actors, who have real lives, they don't stay with one show for their entire life.
Are character relationships a bad thing really. You just want people to meet the Doctor, have an adventure, then roll onto the next one, oh and do it in duch a way that the show gets stale and repetitive? In classic who, the show had multi-part episodes, that kind of story worked because the stories lasted a long time. That format for TV show doesn't work anymore, you have to change the style and adapt.
Constant flitting, I see you've referenced the most recent two episodes only, thats hardly constant flitting. Out of intetest when WAS Doctor Who a great series for you ? just in the Eccleston season? Plastic bins absorbing Mickey, farting aliens ?? I loved Eccleston but don't see how your criticisms apply to that era too?
Personally, I think the current team are doing a great job, its my opinion so feel free to quote. They don't have the luxury of just sitting on an internet forum, but are being paid to try and show us entertaining thought provoking content to appeal to a mass audience.
I've enjoyed Doctor Who on and off, so am happy to say things as I see them and not defend the show for the sake of it.
What jars me is the constant flitting between comic book episodes like Robots of Sherwood and the more celebral episodes like Listen. It's like a continual identity crisis.
...
Some of us like DW precisely because of the change in tone between episodes. You never know what you are going to get next - ain't it fun?
And its annoying when people imply that fans defend the show "for the sake of it" rather than as an accurate statement of their real feelings. Why would they? Anyway, they don't on here - dissention is more usual than accord, in my experience.
I don't really come on here that much but in contrast to say, series 5 I think the criticism has went up loads. I for one, really dislike series 5 but it was generally considered to be good among Dr Who fans.
.
There was a lot of criticism of series 5 at the time. I know because a lot of it was mine.
Yes, I had noticed that, but I wasn't going to say anything. ;-):D
Why I oughta....:p
Us defensive obsessives who take the show too seriously are being *rubbish* at the moment. Come ON, lads and lasses.
Agree that the fact that the show can go from sunny rompishness (is that a word? It is now) to reflective moodiness is a big plus. It's *always* done that and thank heavens for that. It's not a matter of being tonally consistent for me, it's a matter of being eclectic and surprising.
Comments
You see what you want to see. It's called confirmation bias.
I personally haven't noticed any change in the amount of criticism at all over the past few years. That could well be confirmation bias on my part as well, but the only way to find out would be a proper statistical analysis of all the comments after an episode... and I don't think anyone could be bothered doing that.
He also needs to look up 'average'. This episode had a plot that stretched from 1990s England to pre-Time War Gallifrey via the end of the universe but still managed to be the closest thing nuWho will ever do to pure historical. Like it or hate it, that's not average. That's very, very unusual.
OTOH 'Deep Breath' and 'Into the Dalek' were average episodes. Straightforward, typical, unremarkable, does-what-it-says-on-the-tin episodes. That's why they were so popular with fans who like that sort of thing. (And why they left me cold. Give me the weird and unusual any day, as long as it's done well of course.)
I don't really come on here that much but in contrast to say, series 5 I think the criticism has went up loads. I for one, really dislike series 5 but it was generally considered to be good among Dr Who fans.
Now we are in series 8 and although a lot of people like it, a lot of people also really dislike it. It seems a lot more split to me rather than the general consensus being 'good'.
I dunno, maybe it is confirmation bias but I think this forum criticizes the show a lot more than past series.
You mean people disagree with you? :eek:
No way! That's outrageous.
I have been very underwhelmed by the 4 episodes so far. There have been good bits to each, but not a completely outstanding one.
Why do I still watch Dr Who ? Its still preferable to most other programs on terrestrial TV.
I don't think they are all good last week I voted average and that may have been giving it to much credit
Get in the TARDIS, NOW, Do as I tell you!!!
Maybe people have asked you to watch it again because you missed quotes like that from Capaldi ?
I've enjoyed Doctor Who on and off, so am happy to say things as I see them and not defend the show for the sake of it.
What jars me is the constant flitting between comic book episodes like Robots of Sherwood and the more celebral episodes like Listen. It's like a continual identity crisis.
I'd like something a bit in between - a lot of the Eccleston episodes were like that - edgier, thought-provoking yet plenty of action too.
As the new era of Doctor Who has evolved, it's becoming more and more obsessed with the relationships and chemistry between characters and there's been such a turnover that it gets a bit tiresome.
Not to mention the almost literal iron lung that is the Daleks. Some fresh, new ideas would be nice, especially with the bigger budget and special effects to hand.
I dip in most weeks but some episodes are tough to persevere with - it's either uninspiring story lines to shoehorn in yet another historical character or an over-thought study in navel gazing.
Other characters and sub-plots dominate and reduce the Doctor to a quirky side-show.
And as for those calling him "12"... Jesus wept how pretentious is that??
The series and its fans take it too seriously and both are in danger of disappearing up their own backsides. It needs to find a balance before the critics really start to turn on it.
I'm fully expecting the obsessives to now go into full defence mode, rather than admit the series has its issues...
If you really wanted to you could quite easily pull apart all the Classic Who episodes. In fact I have a Doctor Who reference book were people did just that. The equivalent of the moaning, droning, bores were about even in the Sixties.
I personally come into each episode with the view to enjoying each episode. I do not understand why people would do otherwise.
Re: Ecclestone. He had farting-aliens and the second episode was played for laughs as much as Robot of Sherwood was.
The relationship issue is the fact that Doctor Who is written for modern audiences just as much as Classic Who was written for the audiences of that time. You can see the similarities between shows like I Claudius and Classic Who in the way they were written and acted. I can put up with the Danny/Clara scenes if we get an episode like yesterdays which was thought -provoking and didn't rely on CGI monsters.
It is not just New Who fans looking at the show through rose-tinted spectacles - if you know what I mean.
Is Doctor Who problem free or perfect? No.
Are there good and bad episodes? Yes.
Does everyone agree on what the problems are or which are the good and the bad episodes? No. (I refer you to my first "answer").
Plenty of people come here to express their opinions of Doctor Who and rightly so.
Many people come here in the belief that their view is obviously the only correct view and with the expectation that everyone will agree with it.
Unfortunately some get a bit upset when those opinions are challenged or even if they're simply asked to explain why they make an assertion like "That was sh!t". For some it's aggressive/patronizing/insulting to even question their assertions.
Also unfortunately some denizens of this forum over the years get a bit tired of opinion repeatedly given as fact (even if by many different posters) and their responses can be aggressive/patronizing/insulting. The same points raised over and over again (albeit by different posters, often) does get irksome.
It's a forum. Expect your opinions, especially if they're controversial, to be questioned.
It's a Doctor Who forum populated (largely) by Doctor Who fans. Expect negative opinions to be questioned and supported.
There's nothing even remotely pretentious about it. It's shorthand so people can easily tell which Doctor people are talking about. The Doctors have always been referred to by a number, probably since Troughton's days so drop the attitude.
I am watching the horror channel and loving them
But I don't like Nu-who and I see lots of criticism -some can be badly explained though
Moffat can be a brilliant writer and so can Gatiss
Reducing stories to one partners was a dire idea
Not, not always. In the past, they were referred to by ordinals (1st, 2nd, 3rd, etc.) It's only in the last 10 years or so that people have started using simple numbers instead. I think maybe people are just too lazy to type the "th" bit at the end, but whatever the reason, it just plain looks wrong to anyone old enough to remember the proper way of doing it.
I rather like how Colin refers to his Doctor as 'Sixie'. Sure that's frowned upon too. ;-)
It isn't lazy, it is evolving grammar. I never use th or st when dating letters at work and I am not the only one - check out a utility bill or a letter from a government body. 12th, 2nd, 3rd is not only unnecessary but it looks out-dated in a modern world...and I was around when Doctor Who v.1 came into being
On topic: I haven't really got anything to add. As GDK says, most of us here are fans of the show, so it especially feels like trolling when someone has nothing to say except "wtf was that?" after a show that is otherwise receiving a particularly good reception. I can ignore (at will) posters of that type but enjoy reading opposing views - TheSloth's post up there is full of opinion I can respect even if I don't share it.
Well, if you really want your posts to read like a utility bill, that's your choice.
Which is usually a good sign that something is right.
So you should be more than old enough to hate the modern world by now.
Every TV show has issues, just not sure the issues I think Doctor Who has are the same as the ones you list. I don't understand your point exactly about 12th so I'll just skip past that one.
I don't think you actually believe there has been a shortage of new ideas right ? do you have a problem with Daleks? think about what your sentence says. One of Ecclestones' best episodes was against, err, let me think, oh yeah, a Dalek. His entire season he played a man racked with guilt of the terrible thing he did to his own race and ... the daleks. His entire series arc and final episode revolved around .... the Daleks. Since Eccleston I can immediately name the following new aliens, weeping angels, vasta nerada, the silence. New friends, fat comedy bloke and his kid stormageddon, vastra and the paternoster gang. New ideas, timelords can hide themselves in fob watches, Tardis has telepathic circuits, tardis comes alive ......
Whats the issue with turnover, are you taking the show too seriously now perhaps? Do you not realise these are real people, actors, who have real lives, they don't stay with one show for their entire life.
Are character relationships a bad thing really. You just want people to meet the Doctor, have an adventure, then roll onto the next one, oh and do it in duch a way that the show gets stale and repetitive? In classic who, the show had multi-part episodes, that kind of story worked because the stories lasted a long time. That format for TV show doesn't work anymore, you have to change the style and adapt.
Constant flitting, I see you've referenced the most recent two episodes only, thats hardly constant flitting. Out of intetest when WAS Doctor Who a great series for you ? just in the Eccleston season? Plastic bins absorbing Mickey, farting aliens ?? I loved Eccleston but don't see how your criticisms apply to that era too?
Personally, I think the current team are doing a great job, its my opinion so feel free to quote. They don't have the luxury of just sitting on an internet forum, but are being paid to try and show us entertaining thought provoking content to appeal to a mass audience.
Some of us like DW precisely because of the change in tone between episodes. You never know what you are going to get next - ain't it fun?
And its annoying when people imply that fans defend the show "for the sake of it" rather than as an accurate statement of their real feelings. Why would they? Anyway, they don't on here - dissention is more usual than accord, in my experience.
Yes, I had noticed that, but I wasn't going to say anything. ;-):D
There was a lot of criticism of series 5 at the time. I know because a lot of it was mine.
Why I oughta....:p
Us defensive obsessives who take the show too seriously are being *rubbish* at the moment. Come ON, lads and lasses.
Agree that the fact that the show can go from sunny rompishness (is that a word? It is now) to reflective moodiness is a big plus. It's *always* done that and thank heavens for that. It's not a matter of being tonally consistent for me, it's a matter of being eclectic and surprising.
There we go, I am pretentious.