I agree, it flows into many aspect of one's life, and if you find it abhorrent, in yourself, then it poisons everything, every relationship and every interaction, with colleagues and friends and family. It destroys everything because you wander through life abhorrent to yourself until life tastes like ash in your mouth.
I still believe that sexuality plays a much wider role in people's lives than the mere sexual act or the person you're attracted to. Being gay in a straight world means that you're reminded of your sexuality on an almost constant basis.
I totally agree, that's why it's vital people understand that it's not even worth finding abhorrent. it's just the fact, it's there and it's not going away. Life is so much better facing it head on than poisioning life in the way you've explained. Agree with the second point also, but I don't think it changes me as such, it's just that I'm far more aware of the literal fact of my sexuality, that doesn't mean it plays a bigger role in my life than it does for any heterosexual person.
I used to say this, I even used to think this, but I'm not so sure it's the case, and actually, I think it's not actually that helpful to say.
I feel guilty for putting you through writing all of that because it can't have been easy. Thank you for sharing that.
I guess I'm very privileged in how easy I've had it. My parents found out and it was just the way it was, nothing was said and everything carried on as normal. The same happened with friends, and those that were put off left me alone and I was left with family and good friends who I could be completley open with and nothing ever felt different. I'm aware that, as your story highlights, it's not so easy for a lot of people and overcoming that clearly instills a pride in who you are that I just don't seem to feel because i've never had to defend or justify my sexuality. Because so little changed for me, I've always felt that being gay was a very small detail and as of yet it's had no major repercussions.
There are some parts of me that I know are that way because I'm a gay man...but when I slot these things into my day-to-day life they don't seem too important. I never meant to suggest anyone should step away from anything percieved as "gay" and make it as little a part of their life as possible...my aim was to explain to the poster than he is who he is and that being gay doesn't make him anything other than gay. It doesn't mean he automatically fits all sorts of pathetic stereotypes etc.
I think vieweing being gay as such a small thing got me through things at their worst. I liked the idea of seeing myself as a son, a brother, a best friend, an atheist, a liberal, a future architect, a maths student, a Killers fan, A runner alongside being a gay man, I always felt there were many things I am before I'm "gay", and obviously all of these things make up the person I am.
I just see it as damaging to feel "gay" and nothing else. I think people should see themseves as gay alongside so many other things. Perhaps I was wrong in suggesting you should minimise the importance of being gay, but my advice to the poster now would be not to lose sight of things, and that he's many things, gay is just one of those.
Again, thanks for sharing your story.
I feel guilty for putting you through writing all of that because it can't have been easy. Thank you for sharing that.
I guess I'm very privileged in how easy I've had it. My parents found out and it was just the way it was, nothing was said and everything carried on as normal. The same happened with friends, and those that were put off left me alone and I was left with family and good friends who I could be completley open with and nothing ever felt different. I'm aware that, as your story highlights, it's not so easy for a lot of people and overcoming that clearly instills a pride in who you are that I just don't seem to feel because i've never had to defend or justify my sexuality. Because so little changed for me, I've always felt that being gay was a very small detail and as of yet it's had no major repercussions.
There are some parts of me that I know are that way because I'm a gay man...but when I slot these things into my day-to-day life they don't seem too important. I never meant to suggest anyone should step away from anything percieved as "gay" and make it as little a part of their life as possible...my aim was to explain to the poster than he is who he is and that being gay doesn't make him anything other than gay. It doesn't mean he automatically fits all sorts of pathetic stereotypes etc.
I think vieweing being gay as such a small thing got me through things at their worst. I liked the idea of seeing myself as a son, a brother, a best friend, an atheist, a liberal, a future architect, a maths student, a Killers fan, A runner alongside being a gay man, I always felt there were many things I am before I'm "gay", and obviously all of these things make up the person I am.
I just see it as damaging to feel "gay" and nothing else. I think people should see themseves as gay alongside so many other things. Perhaps I was wrong in suggesting you should minimise the importance of being gay, but my advice to the poster now would be not to lose sight of things, and that he's many things, gay is just one of those.
Again, thanks for sharing your story.
Don't worry, I quite like opening up about things like this, I think it can be helpful to others.
I guess what I meant got lost in all of what I wrote, but I wasn't suggesting that being gay was all of who a person is, but at the same time, sexuality itself influences so much, and we're so eager to just dismiss it out of hand..I fear that can have a somewhat damaging effect on someone who doesn't have the confidence that you or I do.
I'm still a brother, a son, a nephew, an uncle, a Liverpool fan, a football manager fan, and so on, but those things don't occur outside of me being gay, and being gay may be an influence on the way I act in terms of those things...does that make sense?
I have seen the poster you responded to around, and we talked a fair bit on a thread on the x-factor forum, I think I may even have seen his facebook/had him on facebook at one time...I don't want this to sound wrong..but err..I wasn't exactly surprised at his revelation..
Don't want to kill the thread, but you cannot change your sexual orientation, and doing so could be exceptionally harmful. People have committed suicide trying to change.
You certainly can't pray the gay away.
But we're all made up of stuff that ultimately can be tinkered with. It's possible they could figure out how to do it.
Though of course at one's current state, few are going to look at someone they're not attracted to, and think "I wish I was attracted to that": Actually, pedophiles might stand out, at least with the opposite statement. And maybe some people have had enough of dealing with other people romantically, and wish they could have no sexuality at all.
The capability to change someone's sexuality could also be abused by an oppressive state, or even private organizations with plenty of resources. Like the pretend-"cures" are today, but possibly with less deception, more brutality.
I wouldn't want to 'change' my sexuality, but if I happened to come across a woman who I was sexually attracted to and fell in love with, then I wouldn't think twice about entering a relationship with her.
The problem for me, to be crude, is that I love willy. I am befuddled by lesbian sex because to me it seems like it would be constant foreplay and the frustration would be unbearable. Also, while I do find many attractive in a sense, I've never wanted to sleep with one, lady parts make me go 'eeeew'.
I do sometimes wish I could get over that and experience a gay relationship, because why not? But never say never. The relationship is with the person, not the gender and it just happens that up to this point in my life, and maybe for the rest of it, I'm averse to sleeping with women. I have kissed women but didn't particularly enjoy it, the face is too soft and it didn't do anything for me at all. I'm as straight as a die but I wouldn't be worried or concerned if I met a woman that I wanted to be with.
I honestly would do anything. Even if I pretended I was straight for my entire life (which I wouldn't mind because i've managed to do it so far just fine), how would I ever have kids or have a girlfriend when I can't even get turned on by women?? :cry:
I deeply feel for you Shadow - and for so many on this thread who've suffered greatly!
But the above in bold is what I don't get - why you'd want to be with a woman when you're not turned on by women. That's because, to me, liking and feeling for someone and being turned on by them go together. Also, here's more of why it doesn't resonate for me - to me, the relationship and feeling for a person are what's important, not the sex. If I fell in love with someone and the physical side was bad, (like the time I had a huge crush on this woman, and she was a terrible kisser) - it wouldn't be an issue for me. Perhaps, I would fantasise about sex somewhat - and if it really bothered me, to be a little bit crude, maybe I would go to Ann Summers and buy a rabbit:D But I'm always just happy to be with the person I have the crush on or in love for ....
Like when I was in love with a woman, I still got turned on a lot by suffering and ill men, but it never worried me or bothered me because I knew I'd never want a long-term relationship with one, but instead totally wanted the woman love interest of the time's sympathy and support. I remember being in the pub once when I was deeply in love with a female friend who I wasn't seeing, and one of my male friends burst through the door yelling "I've been tortured! I've been tortured! I'm afflicted!" , before collapsing .. he'd just been to a TCM practitioner, who had put boiling saucers on his chest as part of some treatment and left him burnt and scarred - I was instantly all over him, brandy, snogging, I completely forgot myself but to me it was irrelevant, yes it meant I was bisexual but it was a sympathy incident which would soon end and would have to end because I was a total slave to this female friend I was in love with.
So I guess what I'm trying to say is, it sounds like to quite a lot of gay men, being gay is often a physical thing which is at war with the emotions that are in their hearts. I suspected that before this thread, and to me what's been said on this thread confirms it. Personally I wonder that there's no research being done to try to help gay men in this position - as well as all people of whatever sex or sexuality who feel conflicted between their bodies and their hearts. I wonder if telling young gay or bisexual people they should resign themselves to their sexual urgesfor the rest of their lives, is really the kindest thing to do in many cases - not in all cases, I do know there are many gay and bisexual people who experience no inner psychological turmoil over their sexuality. I'm not referring to pray away the gay or the horrific conversion therapies and treatments of the past. Just some sort of research instead of society sweeping a lot of the unhappiness out there with being gay under a one-solution-fits-all-carpet ...
And I'm not trying to offend anyone or say anyone's not well meaning. My heart has just been touched by the men on DS recently who've said they so deeply don't want to be gay and it's got me thinking about it.
I'm not referring to pray away the gay or the horrific conversion therapies and treatments of the past. Just some sort of research instead of society sweeping a lot of the unhappiness out there with being gay under a one-solution-fits-all-carpet .
I agree. It's a fact that homosexuals are more likely to suffer from mental health issues compared with their straight counterparts.
Rates of depression, anxiety, obsessive compulsive disorder, phobia, self-harm, suicidal thoughts, and alcohol and drug dependence were significantly higher in homosexual respondents.
Four percent had a depressive episode in the last week, compared to two percent of heterosexual people. The rate of alcohol dependence was ten percent versus five percent, and for self-harming it was nine percent versus five percent.
Clearly something needs to be done to address these things as it's pretty obvious that being gay causes some people a lot of psychological stress. At the moment they're just told to shut up and get on with it.
Comments
No I'm not gay! I just had a brief crush.
I totally agree, that's why it's vital people understand that it's not even worth finding abhorrent. it's just the fact, it's there and it's not going away. Life is so much better facing it head on than poisioning life in the way you've explained. Agree with the second point also, but I don't think it changes me as such, it's just that I'm far more aware of the literal fact of my sexuality, that doesn't mean it plays a bigger role in my life than it does for any heterosexual person.
I feel guilty for putting you through writing all of that because it can't have been easy. Thank you for sharing that.
I guess I'm very privileged in how easy I've had it. My parents found out and it was just the way it was, nothing was said and everything carried on as normal. The same happened with friends, and those that were put off left me alone and I was left with family and good friends who I could be completley open with and nothing ever felt different. I'm aware that, as your story highlights, it's not so easy for a lot of people and overcoming that clearly instills a pride in who you are that I just don't seem to feel because i've never had to defend or justify my sexuality. Because so little changed for me, I've always felt that being gay was a very small detail and as of yet it's had no major repercussions.
There are some parts of me that I know are that way because I'm a gay man...but when I slot these things into my day-to-day life they don't seem too important. I never meant to suggest anyone should step away from anything percieved as "gay" and make it as little a part of their life as possible...my aim was to explain to the poster than he is who he is and that being gay doesn't make him anything other than gay. It doesn't mean he automatically fits all sorts of pathetic stereotypes etc.
I think vieweing being gay as such a small thing got me through things at their worst. I liked the idea of seeing myself as a son, a brother, a best friend, an atheist, a liberal, a future architect, a maths student, a Killers fan, A runner alongside being a gay man, I always felt there were many things I am before I'm "gay", and obviously all of these things make up the person I am.
I just see it as damaging to feel "gay" and nothing else. I think people should see themseves as gay alongside so many other things. Perhaps I was wrong in suggesting you should minimise the importance of being gay, but my advice to the poster now would be not to lose sight of things, and that he's many things, gay is just one of those.
Again, thanks for sharing your story.
Don't worry, I quite like opening up about things like this, I think it can be helpful to others.
I guess what I meant got lost in all of what I wrote, but I wasn't suggesting that being gay was all of who a person is, but at the same time, sexuality itself influences so much, and we're so eager to just dismiss it out of hand..I fear that can have a somewhat damaging effect on someone who doesn't have the confidence that you or I do.
I'm still a brother, a son, a nephew, an uncle, a Liverpool fan, a football manager fan, and so on, but those things don't occur outside of me being gay, and being gay may be an influence on the way I act in terms of those things...does that make sense?
I have seen the poster you responded to around, and we talked a fair bit on a thread on the x-factor forum, I think I may even have seen his facebook/had him on facebook at one time...I don't want this to sound wrong..but err..I wasn't exactly surprised at his revelation..
You certainly can't pray the gay away.
But we're all made up of stuff that ultimately can be tinkered with. It's possible they could figure out how to do it.
Though of course at one's current state, few are going to look at someone they're not attracted to, and think "I wish I was attracted to that": Actually, pedophiles might stand out, at least with the opposite statement. And maybe some people have had enough of dealing with other people romantically, and wish they could have no sexuality at all.
The capability to change someone's sexuality could also be abused by an oppressive state, or even private organizations with plenty of resources. Like the pretend-"cures" are today, but possibly with less deception, more brutality.
The problem for me, to be crude, is that I love willy. I am befuddled by lesbian sex because to me it seems like it would be constant foreplay and the frustration would be unbearable. Also, while I do find many attractive in a sense, I've never wanted to sleep with one, lady parts make me go 'eeeew'.
I do sometimes wish I could get over that and experience a gay relationship, because why not? But never say never. The relationship is with the person, not the gender and it just happens that up to this point in my life, and maybe for the rest of it, I'm averse to sleeping with women. I have kissed women but didn't particularly enjoy it, the face is too soft and it didn't do anything for me at all. I'm as straight as a die but I wouldn't be worried or concerned if I met a woman that I wanted to be with.
I deeply feel for you Shadow - and for so many on this thread who've suffered greatly!
But the above in bold is what I don't get - why you'd want to be with a woman when you're not turned on by women. That's because, to me, liking and feeling for someone and being turned on by them go together. Also, here's more of why it doesn't resonate for me - to me, the relationship and feeling for a person are what's important, not the sex. If I fell in love with someone and the physical side was bad, (like the time I had a huge crush on this woman, and she was a terrible kisser) - it wouldn't be an issue for me. Perhaps, I would fantasise about sex somewhat - and if it really bothered me, to be a little bit crude, maybe I would go to Ann Summers and buy a rabbit:D But I'm always just happy to be with the person I have the crush on or in love for ....
Like when I was in love with a woman, I still got turned on a lot by suffering and ill men, but it never worried me or bothered me because I knew I'd never want a long-term relationship with one, but instead totally wanted the woman love interest of the time's sympathy and support. I remember being in the pub once when I was deeply in love with a female friend who I wasn't seeing, and one of my male friends burst through the door yelling "I've been tortured! I've been tortured! I'm afflicted!" , before collapsing .. he'd just been to a TCM practitioner, who had put boiling saucers on his chest as part of some treatment and left him burnt and scarred - I was instantly all over him, brandy, snogging, I completely forgot myself but to me it was irrelevant, yes it meant I was bisexual but it was a sympathy incident which would soon end and would have to end because I was a total slave to this female friend I was in love with.
So I guess what I'm trying to say is, it sounds like to quite a lot of gay men, being gay is often a physical thing which is at war with the emotions that are in their hearts. I suspected that before this thread, and to me what's been said on this thread confirms it. Personally I wonder that there's no research being done to try to help gay men in this position - as well as all people of whatever sex or sexuality who feel conflicted between their bodies and their hearts. I wonder if telling young gay or bisexual people they should resign themselves to their sexual urgesfor the rest of their lives, is really the kindest thing to do in many cases - not in all cases, I do know there are many gay and bisexual people who experience no inner psychological turmoil over their sexuality. I'm not referring to pray away the gay or the horrific conversion therapies and treatments of the past. Just some sort of research instead of society sweeping a lot of the unhappiness out there with being gay under a one-solution-fits-all-carpet ...
And I'm not trying to offend anyone or say anyone's not well meaning. My heart has just been touched by the men on DS recently who've said they so deeply don't want to be gay and it's got me thinking about it.
I agree. It's a fact that homosexuals are more likely to suffer from mental health issues compared with their straight counterparts.
http://psychcentral.com/lib/2011/higher-risk-of-mental-health-problems-for-homosexuals/
Clearly something needs to be done to address these things as it's pretty obvious that being gay causes some people a lot of psychological stress. At the moment they're just told to shut up and get on with it.