You can't avoid paying council tax on an empty property, I'm afraid. We went through all this ourselves after our late father died. I think our council gave us 6 months exemption from when probate was granted in order to sell the property. After that, I think we had to pay 90% of the full figure (it was a few years ago, now) until we sold the property and completed.
The ironic part was, during his lifetime, dad had received certain benefits so had never paid any council tax on the property. We paid more after his passing than he ever did.
The only leeway we managed to obtain was telling the council that we couldn't afford to pay the council tax demand until the property was sold and we had received the money from the sale. They were willing to accept this, so that is what we did.
However, when the property was sold and we contacted the council to ask how much council tax we owed them it was still something like £1,200. Ouch!
If you don't pay it they will take you to court, believe me!
However, when the property was sold and we contacted the council to ask how much council tax we owed them it was still something like £1,200. Ouch!
If you don't pay it they will take you to court, believe me!
Of course! How else can the council generate enough revenue to pay the wages of staff in the council tax office? Somebody has to sit in the office reading OK magazine and ignoring your phone calls all day.
Of course! How else can the council generate enough revenue to pay the wages of staff in the council tax office? Somebody has to sit in the office reading OK magazine and ignoring your phone calls all day.
The only leeway we managed to obtain was telling the council that we couldn't afford to pay the council tax demand until the property was sold and we had received the money from the sale. They were willing to accept this, so that is what we did.
We wondered this and have written to them - awaiting reply.
Coincidentally, today I got a call from the Council where my mum used to live.
I am the executrix of her will and had sent a copy of probate to them as soon as it was granted.
They informed me that suspension of CT only lasted for 6 months from the grant of probate, and we owe on mum's house from 19 October this year.
If they hadn't got the probate from me, how did they know my name, address and telephone number?
Coincidentally, today I got a call from the Council where my mum used to live. I am the executrix of her will and had sent a copy of probate to them as soon as it was granted.
They informed me that suspension of CT only lasted for 6 months from the grant of probate, and we owe on mum's house from 19 October this year. If they hadn't got the probate from me, how did they know my name, address and telephone number?
Surely your post is contradictory, unless I've misunderstood?
You say you were the executor and sent them probate, but then say they didn't receive it from you?
Here are a few exemptions to council tax. Perhaps find one that suits and fill the form in.
Do you have a son or daughter or do know anyone under 18, or know anyone on an apprenticeship scheme? They always need money ;-) Do you have anyone ill in the family that needs caring for? In addition to this list the unemployed can claim council tax relief too. Good luck. With their permission put the council tax in their name. There is no law which says how long they actually live there!
• children under 18
• people on apprentice schemes
• 18 and 19-year-olds in full-time education
• full-time college and university students
• young people under 25 who get funding from the Skills Funding Agency or Young People’s Learning Agency
• student nurses
• foreign language assistants registered with the British Council
• people with a severe mental disability
• live-in carers who look after someone who isn’t their partner, spouse or child
• diplomats
• condemned property
• property which has been legally re-possessed by a mortgage lender
• property unoccupied because the person who lived there now lives elsewhere because they need to be cared for, for example, in hospital, in a care home or with relatives
• property which is unoccupied because the person who lived there has gone to care for someone else
• any property that only students or Foreign Language Assistants on the official British Council programme live in. This may be a hall of residence, or a house. If the property is occupied by both students and non-students the property is not exempt but any students in the house are disregarded
• a holiday caravan or boat if it's on a property where council tax is paid
• a property where all the people who live in it are aged under 18
• property which is occupied only by people with severe mental impairment
• a self-contained ‘granny flat’ where the person who lives in it is a waiting for probate or letters of administration to be granted and for up to six months after
• empty because someone has gone to prison
• waiting to be occupied by a minister of religion
• dependent relative of the owner of the main property.
There is no simple solution, but here are some quotes I like which may help; but, If you can't find the time to do the "work" then pay the council tax bill.
"Creativity is the process of discovering something you did not start out with."
- Collingwood
"Genius is (1%) one percent inspiration, and (99%) ninety-nine percent perspiration."
- Thomas Edison
"Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and it looks like work."
- Thomas Edison
Here are a few exemptions to council tax. Perhaps find one that suits and fill the form in.
Do you have a son or daughter or do know anyone under 18, or know anyone on an apprenticeship scheme? They always need money ;-) Do you have anyone ill in the family that needs caring for? In addition to this list the unemployed can claim council tax relief too. Good luck. With their permission put the council tax in their name. There is no law which says how long they actually live there!
...
Hate to burst your bubble, but it was my understanding there is a legal definition of the [permanent] occupier.
What your suggesting would be fraudulent unless the person in question moved into the house full time.
@Hypnodisc you seem quick to make judgments...the fact is you can be permanent somewhere and still be able to come and go as you please. There is no law that says you have to sleep there or even cook there more than you want, and you are only 'permanent' for as long as you want to be. After 6 -12 months the house is empty again and re qualifies for 6 months empty rates.
The OP asked for tips, if her conscience pricks her the she will pay, if she is creative then she will find a way round it.
Anyway, without wishing to burst your bubble, if no one lives in the house WHY should anyone who does not use water, use the bins the pavements or any services have to pay anything? It seems rather an unfair law to me. The law does provide exemptions and the wise use them. I guess you wouldn't.
@Hypnodisc you seem quick to make judgments...the fact is you can be permanent somewhere and still be able to come and go as you please. There is no law that says you have to sleep there or even cook there more than you want, and you are only 'permanent' for as long as you want to be. After 6 -12 months the house is empty again and re qualifies for 6 months empty rates.
The OP asked for tips, if her conscience pricks her the she will pay, if she is creative then she will find a way round it.
Anyway, without wishing to burst your bubble, if no one lives in the house WHY should anyone who does not use water, use the bins the pavements or any services have to pay anything? It seems rather an unfair law to me. The law does provide exemptions and the wise use them. I guess you wouldn't.
Woah there - you seem to be the one quick to rush to judgments!
Morally speaking, I agree with you and the OP. It is definitely an unfair law. If the OP can get round it somehow, he/she should.
I just think what you proposed could easily get you prosecuted for fraud or tax evasion - after all, it's technically both of those things! Maybe what you're saying is correct but I'd hate for the OP to just blindly follow that advice without further research.
I would imagine it'd be treated in the same way as when people pretend to live somewhere else for the purposes of claiming benefits - investigators would seek evidence of general residence, nothing too specific.
But yeah, if the OP can get a qualifying council-tax exempt relative or friend to move in rent-free for 6 months (and for arguments sake maybe if they lived there half the week), then that's another free 6 months after - so that's not a bad idea.
After 6 -12 months the house is empty again and re qualifies for 6 months empty rates.
Depending on the authority, probably not anymore. Councils have been allowed to charge the full rate on empty properties since April. They are even allowed to charge a surcharge on a property that has been empty for 2 years.
So our late Mum's house has been empty for 9 months now and we're going to have to start paying full Council tax on it from next month (we've had our 6 months free period since probate was granted).
Are there any ways to get out of paying or paying less?
Have you thought of moving in yourself? Then you will get a new six-month period on your own house.
But yeah, if the OP can get a qualifying council-tax exempt relative or friend to move in rent-free for 6 months (and for arguments sake maybe if they lived there half the week), then that's another free 6 months after - so that's not a bad idea.
But with the possible downside alluded to above of having a student cluttering up the place while you're trying to show viewers the property, as well as additional costs of utilities etc and the hassle of someone moving in and out. Not sure it would be worthwhile really.
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I just think what you proposed could easily get you prosecuted for fraud or tax evasion - after all, it's technically both of those things!
With all due respect, it's neither of those things. If a qualifying occupant is registered at the premises then it's Ipso facto the claim for relief is genuine. No tax evasion as that applies to income tax, not council tax. Incidentally you can be resident at a property but live at your girlfriends 7 days a week! You don't have to prove you sleep there or eat there, there is no requirement so to do. You elect to pay council tax, you live your life anywhere you like as long as you pay your council tax, or not pay as the case may be if you are exempt.
I feel sometimes too much caution is worse than too little. I do accept however some people worry about the smallest thing and it comforts them to know they have paid every penny of tv licence, council tax and everything else ....just in case.
Depending on the authority, probably not anymore. Councils have been allowed to charge the full rate on empty properties since April. They are even allowed to charge a surcharge on a property that has been empty for 2 years.
It's my understanding that each council tax year is a new and separate year. If the empty exemption has not been claimed then it can be. Landlords invariably have voids on tenancies so they claim empty relief while it is awaiting new tenets every year.
I'd be amazed if a Council didn't allow it as technically the property is changing hands for the purpose of council tax every year. With regard having it empty for 2 years and surcharges then if that was your position then you would claim for a different exemption to avoid that situation.
Life's not hard people make it hard for themselves as they know no different. Advice is a wonderful thing!
OP hope the "advice" is useful to you and the "opinions" don't cause you undue angst preventing you reaching your goal. Good luck
It's my understanding that each council tax year is a new and separate year. If the empty exemption has not been claimed then it can be.
The statutory right to the six-month empty property exemption no longer exists as of April 2013. Google it for yourself and you'll see that most councils unsurprisingly appear to have opted to dispense with it.
The statutory right to the six-month empty property exemption no longer exists as of April 2013. Google it for yourself and you'll see that most councils unsurprisingly appear to have opted to dispense with it.
Yes this is quite correct. We have a flat that has recently become vacant and have discovered that from April our council requires full council tax to be paid. In some ways it's a good thing as it makes landlords keen to get property rented back out again.
The statutory right to the six-month empty property exemption no longer exists as of April 2013. Google it for yourself and you'll see that most councils unsurprisingly appear to have opted to dispense with it.
Councils should make up their minds as to whether this is a property tax, or a tax levied on individuals, or a penalty charge for people who deliberately keep properties empty.
At present you get ridiculous situations where one fully occupied house pays 0% council tax, with no eligible people, and the empty one next door pays 100%. But then you move one person in, and the council tax reduces to 75%!
Rates of 50%, 75% or 100%, for 0, 1 or 2+ eligible occupiers would make more sense. With a more flexible view of who exactly the 'occupier' might be when a property is empty. So someone in prison might pay 0% tax on his own home, but presumably 100% if he also owns another, empty property! The whole system is a mess (the poll tax was much better...).
I also suspect that most owners will not voluntarily keep premises empty; a hefty penalty charge will not really help.
Anyway, without wishing to burst your bubble, if no one lives in the house WHY should anyone who does not use water, use the bins the pavements or any services have to pay anything? It seems rather an unfair law to me. The law does provide exemptions and the wise use them. I guess you wouldn't.
Water isn't covered by Council Tax - but as others have said it does cover policing and fire service etc.
If you have an empty proper in your name yet don't live there it must be regarded as a second home.
Speaking as someone who lives in an area where the population at summer weekends is some 3 times higher than winter weekdays the I'm grateful everyone has to pay their share.
The alternative, of course is to allow the owner to exempt themselves from council tax, but then don't let them have any benefit.
The alternative, of course is to allow the owner to exempt themselves from council tax, but then don't let them have any benefit.
So if it catches fire - let it burn.
The cost of the fire service will be a small fraction of the council budget. Perhaps the charges for unoccupied premises can reflect the actual cost. (I suggested a 50% rate, the true figure would be far less.)
It would be unfair otherwise if a person paying 100% council tax on a main property, is not covered for a second one, while a house full of ineligible occupiers, or who simply don't pay, are fully covered.
Water isn't covered by Council Tax - but as others have said it does cover policing and fire service etc.
..The alternative, of course is to allow the owner to exempt themselves from council tax, but then don't let them have any benefit.
So if it catches fire - let it burn.
What a fantastic I Idea. I hope it catches on!
You do know that Councils are Ltd Companies don't you? Do you always pay bills to Ltd Companies for services that you didn't agree to or at price you didn't agree with, regardless if they give you the service or not? Or if you asked for the service or not.
When I book a service, I like to ring round get the best price, decide what I want and agree terms and pay what we have agreed. If they don't do the work properly I expect a partial refund. If I don't take a service up then I don't expect to pay for it.
Tell me again when did you or I contract with the Council for ANY services and when did we agree terms? You should look up contract law!
Anyway this isn't the right place for these observations. Councils rules seem to change at their will, thankfully they still have exemptions and I don't claim my list is exhaustive but I've given the list a fair whack.
The OP asked for tips and I hope the OP has enough to be getting on with and has more options than they started with. I am dismayed at people wishing their house burns down. Oh well. Merry Christmas and be careful what you wish on others as the universe often has a habit of visiting the same kindness on you.
Yes this is quite correct. We have a flat that has recently become vacant and have discovered that from April our council requires full council tax to be paid. In some ways it's a good thing as it makes landlords keen to get property rented back out again.
Thanks guys for the information. I am appalled they are now charging properties when they don't use any services. What a disgrace.
@judgemental What if I don't want to rent my house out? Why should anyone tell me what to do with my own property? When they tried this for commercial premises, some owners applied to demolish them rather than pay for services while no one used them. Perhaps this is an answer for domestic properties? It will be interesting to see how many come down rather than pay extortion!
You do know that Councils are Ltd Companies don't you? Do you always pay bills to Ltd Companies for services that you didn't agree to or at price you didn't agree with, regardless if they give you the service or not? Or if you asked for the service or not.
When I book a service, I like to ring round get the best price, decide what I want and agree terms and pay what we have agreed. If they don't do the work properly I expect a partial refund. If I don't take a service up then I don't expect to pay for it.
Tell me again when did you or I contract with the Council for ANY services and when did we agree terms? You should look up contract law!
Anyway this isn't the right place for these observations. Councils rules seem to change at their will, thankfully they still have exemptions and I don't claim my list is exhaustive but I've given the list a fair whack.
The OP asked for tips and I hope the OP has enough to be getting on with and has more options than they started with. I am dismayed at people wishing their house burns down. Oh well. Merry Christmas and be careful what you wish on others as the universe often has a habit of visiting the same kindness on you.
You should do some research, perhaps a google search "councils ltd companies". Our Council's email now has ltd in it.
That's an aside, even if they weren't a trading company as you contend, why should a council have the monopoly on providing a service? Why should you pay for a service you didn't ask for? Why should you pay for a service you don't use. Why pay for a service you didn't contract for at an agreed price at the outset? Councils imho should clean streets, fix potholes, provide emergency services and a few other common things we all use and the rest should be optional.
The optional services they want to offer could easily be privatised. That would leave about an office full of people in a small office on minimum wage administering.
I'm going to leave this topic now as I've done my bit in the OP original request for tips.
You should do some research, perhaps a google search "councils ltd companies". Our Council's email now has ltd in it.
That's an aside, even if they weren't a trading company as you contend, why should a council have the monopoly on providing a service? Why should you pay for a service you didn't ask for? Why should you pay for a service you don't use. Why pay for a service you didn't contract for at an agreed price at the outset? Councils imho should clean streets, fix potholes, provide emergency services and a few other common things we all use and the rest should be optional.
The optional services they want to offer could easily be privatised. That would leave about an office full of people in a small office on minimum wage administering.
I'm going to leave this topic now as I've done my bit in the OP original request for tips.
Happy Googling.
I have 'done my research' (call it my specialist subject..) and I'm aware some public bodies have Ltd companies established for them (worth bearing in mind most will be limited by guarantee - effectively nonprofits), for a variety of reasons. It's not quite as sinister as you seem to be inferring.
However, the important point is most councils, including mine, are not registered limited companies though.
And I disagree with you on the second point. The only way we can have cohesive services is through a central, taxpayer funded body. Privatisation just leads to hash-ups and putting profit before the people.
I can't think of anything my council do which I'd consider 'optional'.
You should do some research, perhaps a google search "councils ltd companies". Our Council's email now has ltd in it.
That's an aside, even if they weren't a trading company as you contend, why should a council have the monopoly on providing a service? Why should you pay for a service you didn't ask for? Why should you pay for a service you don't use. Why pay for a service you didn't contract for at an agreed price at the outset? Councils imho should clean streets, fix potholes, provide emergency services and a few other common things we all use and the rest should be optional.
The optional services they want to offer could easily be privatised. That would leave about an office full of people in a small office on minimum wage administering.
I'm going to leave this topic now as I've done my bit in the OP original request for tips.
Comments
The ironic part was, during his lifetime, dad had received certain benefits so had never paid any council tax on the property. We paid more after his passing than he ever did.
The only leeway we managed to obtain was telling the council that we couldn't afford to pay the council tax demand until the property was sold and we had received the money from the sale. They were willing to accept this, so that is what we did.
However, when the property was sold and we contacted the council to ask how much council tax we owed them it was still something like £1,200. Ouch!
If you don't pay it they will take you to court, believe me!
Of course! How else can the council generate enough revenue to pay the wages of staff in the council tax office? Somebody has to sit in the office reading OK magazine and ignoring your phone calls all day.
Comedy Gold
We wondered this and have written to them - awaiting reply.
I am the executrix of her will and had sent a copy of probate to them as soon as it was granted.
They informed me that suspension of CT only lasted for 6 months from the grant of probate, and we owe on mum's house from 19 October this year.
If they hadn't got the probate from me, how did they know my name, address and telephone number?
Surely your post is contradictory, unless I've misunderstood?
You say you were the executor and sent them probate, but then say they didn't receive it from you?
Do you have a son or daughter or do know anyone under 18, or know anyone on an apprenticeship scheme? They always need money ;-) Do you have anyone ill in the family that needs caring for? In addition to this list the unemployed can claim council tax relief too. Good luck. With their permission put the council tax in their name. There is no law which says how long they actually live there!
• children under 18
• people on apprentice schemes
• 18 and 19-year-olds in full-time education
• full-time college and university students
• young people under 25 who get funding from the Skills Funding Agency or Young People’s Learning Agency
• student nurses
• foreign language assistants registered with the British Council
• people with a severe mental disability
• live-in carers who look after someone who isn’t their partner, spouse or child
• diplomats
• condemned property
• property which has been legally re-possessed by a mortgage lender
• property unoccupied because the person who lived there now lives elsewhere because they need to be cared for, for example, in hospital, in a care home or with relatives
• property which is unoccupied because the person who lived there has gone to care for someone else
• any property that only students or Foreign Language Assistants on the official British Council programme live in. This may be a hall of residence, or a house. If the property is occupied by both students and non-students the property is not exempt but any students in the house are disregarded
• a holiday caravan or boat if it's on a property where council tax is paid
• a property where all the people who live in it are aged under 18
• property which is occupied only by people with severe mental impairment
• a self-contained ‘granny flat’ where the person who lives in it is a waiting for probate or letters of administration to be granted and for up to six months after
• empty because someone has gone to prison
• waiting to be occupied by a minister of religion
• dependent relative of the owner of the main property.
There is no simple solution, but here are some quotes I like which may help; but, If you can't find the time to do the "work" then pay the council tax bill.
"Creativity is the process of discovering something you did not start out with."
- Collingwood
"Genius is (1%) one percent inspiration, and (99%) ninety-nine percent perspiration."
- Thomas Edison
"Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and it looks like work."
- Thomas Edison
Hate to burst your bubble, but it was my understanding there is a legal definition of the [permanent] occupier.
What your suggesting would be fraudulent unless the person in question moved into the house full time.
The OP asked for tips, if her conscience pricks her the she will pay, if she is creative then she will find a way round it.
Anyway, without wishing to burst your bubble, if no one lives in the house WHY should anyone who does not use water, use the bins the pavements or any services have to pay anything? It seems rather an unfair law to me. The law does provide exemptions and the wise use them. I guess you wouldn't.
Woah there - you seem to be the one quick to rush to judgments!
Morally speaking, I agree with you and the OP. It is definitely an unfair law. If the OP can get round it somehow, he/she should.
I just think what you proposed could easily get you prosecuted for fraud or tax evasion - after all, it's technically both of those things! Maybe what you're saying is correct but I'd hate for the OP to just blindly follow that advice without further research.
I would imagine it'd be treated in the same way as when people pretend to live somewhere else for the purposes of claiming benefits - investigators would seek evidence of general residence, nothing too specific.
But yeah, if the OP can get a qualifying council-tax exempt relative or friend to move in rent-free for 6 months (and for arguments sake maybe if they lived there half the week), then that's another free 6 months after - so that's not a bad idea.
Have you thought of moving in yourself? Then you will get a new six-month period on your own house.
But with the possible downside alluded to above of having a student cluttering up the place while you're trying to show viewers the property, as well as additional costs of utilities etc and the hassle of someone moving in and out. Not sure it would be worthwhile really.
With all due respect, it's neither of those things. If a qualifying occupant is registered at the premises then it's Ipso facto the claim for relief is genuine. No tax evasion as that applies to income tax, not council tax. Incidentally you can be resident at a property but live at your girlfriends 7 days a week! You don't have to prove you sleep there or eat there, there is no requirement so to do. You elect to pay council tax, you live your life anywhere you like as long as you pay your council tax, or not pay as the case may be if you are exempt.
I feel sometimes too much caution is worse than too little. I do accept however some people worry about the smallest thing and it comforts them to know they have paid every penny of tv licence, council tax and everything else ....just in case.
It's my understanding that each council tax year is a new and separate year. If the empty exemption has not been claimed then it can be. Landlords invariably have voids on tenancies so they claim empty relief while it is awaiting new tenets every year.
I'd be amazed if a Council didn't allow it as technically the property is changing hands for the purpose of council tax every year. With regard having it empty for 2 years and surcharges then if that was your position then you would claim for a different exemption to avoid that situation.
Life's not hard people make it hard for themselves as they know no different. Advice is a wonderful thing!
OP hope the "advice" is useful to you and the "opinions" don't cause you undue angst preventing you reaching your goal. Good luck
Yes this is quite correct. We have a flat that has recently become vacant and have discovered that from April our council requires full council tax to be paid. In some ways it's a good thing as it makes landlords keen to get property rented back out again.
Councils should make up their minds as to whether this is a property tax, or a tax levied on individuals, or a penalty charge for people who deliberately keep properties empty.
At present you get ridiculous situations where one fully occupied house pays 0% council tax, with no eligible people, and the empty one next door pays 100%. But then you move one person in, and the council tax reduces to 75%!
Rates of 50%, 75% or 100%, for 0, 1 or 2+ eligible occupiers would make more sense. With a more flexible view of who exactly the 'occupier' might be when a property is empty. So someone in prison might pay 0% tax on his own home, but presumably 100% if he also owns another, empty property! The whole system is a mess (the poll tax was much better...).
I also suspect that most owners will not voluntarily keep premises empty; a hefty penalty charge will not really help.
Water isn't covered by Council Tax - but as others have said it does cover policing and fire service etc.
If you have an empty proper in your name yet don't live there it must be regarded as a second home.
Speaking as someone who lives in an area where the population at summer weekends is some 3 times higher than winter weekdays the I'm grateful everyone has to pay their share.
The alternative, of course is to allow the owner to exempt themselves from council tax, but then don't let them have any benefit.
So if it catches fire - let it burn.
The cost of the fire service will be a small fraction of the council budget. Perhaps the charges for unoccupied premises can reflect the actual cost. (I suggested a 50% rate, the true figure would be far less.)
It would be unfair otherwise if a person paying 100% council tax on a main property, is not covered for a second one, while a house full of ineligible occupiers, or who simply don't pay, are fully covered.
What a fantastic I Idea. I hope it catches on!
You do know that Councils are Ltd Companies don't you? Do you always pay bills to Ltd Companies for services that you didn't agree to or at price you didn't agree with, regardless if they give you the service or not? Or if you asked for the service or not.
When I book a service, I like to ring round get the best price, decide what I want and agree terms and pay what we have agreed. If they don't do the work properly I expect a partial refund. If I don't take a service up then I don't expect to pay for it.
Tell me again when did you or I contract with the Council for ANY services and when did we agree terms? You should look up contract law!
Anyway this isn't the right place for these observations. Councils rules seem to change at their will, thankfully they still have exemptions and I don't claim my list is exhaustive but I've given the list a fair whack.
The OP asked for tips and I hope the OP has enough to be getting on with and has more options than they started with. I am dismayed at people wishing their house burns down. Oh well. Merry Christmas and be careful what you wish on others as the universe often has a habit of visiting the same kindness on you.
Thanks guys for the information. I am appalled they are now charging properties when they don't use any services. What a disgrace.
@judgemental What if I don't want to rent my house out? Why should anyone tell me what to do with my own property? When they tried this for commercial premises, some owners applied to demolish them rather than pay for services while no one used them. Perhaps this is an answer for domestic properties? It will be interesting to see how many come down rather than pay extortion!
They aren't as a general rule..
That's an aside, even if they weren't a trading company as you contend, why should a council have the monopoly on providing a service? Why should you pay for a service you didn't ask for? Why should you pay for a service you don't use. Why pay for a service you didn't contract for at an agreed price at the outset? Councils imho should clean streets, fix potholes, provide emergency services and a few other common things we all use and the rest should be optional.
The optional services they want to offer could easily be privatised. That would leave about an office full of people in a small office on minimum wage administering.
I'm going to leave this topic now as I've done my bit in the OP original request for tips.
Happy Googling.
I have 'done my research' (call it my specialist subject..) and I'm aware some public bodies have Ltd companies established for them (worth bearing in mind most will be limited by guarantee - effectively nonprofits), for a variety of reasons. It's not quite as sinister as you seem to be inferring.
However, the important point is most councils, including mine, are not registered limited companies though.
And I disagree with you on the second point. The only way we can have cohesive services is through a central, taxpayer funded body. Privatisation just leads to hash-ups and putting profit before the people.
I can't think of anything my council do which I'd consider 'optional'.
I like you. You're funny!!