I find it amusing. I can see why people would want roots, and personally I would probably want them too, but if you are born in the USA then you are American. You are not Irish/German/Scottish or whatever. You may be of Irish descent, but that's a different thing.
Mind you I have heard people say that they were Asian though they were born in the UK - and they were speaking in a nationality sense, not an ethnicity one. Odd.
Americans probably ARE claiming simply the ancestry when they 'I am Irish/Scottish' etc.
However to our ears, when they do, it sounds as if they are claiming to actually be Irish/Scottish/A N Other Nationality, as if they were born and bred there.
This. (or that.). I am about 40 something and when I was a child growing up in the San Francisco Bay area it was common to talk to other kids and out of normalcy ask "what are you" in terms of ethnicity. When you are young, and you go to school and there are kids who look different than you or are eating something strange or have mothers who have an accent, it's just normal to be curious and ask that. Not even strange at all. Not uncommon at all to hear "Im Mexican. I'm Irish. I'm Japanese" and so on. Then we'd be in school and do our Pledge Allegiance to the Flag and ultimately be American. I seriously doubt anyone confuses ethnicity with being born in a foreign country. It is just the way we phrase it. Uhh, foreign country to you all, with different ways of doing things and different interpretations.
But we are American first and foremost. That is a given and that is probably why some of you are confusing the issue because we dont say we are American to each other because we simply are.
Now you may have met someone who said this or that, and I dont hvae the energy to debate every single issue on this. But if it bothers you so much, be the gracious Brits you should be and smile and move on in life.
Could not disagree more and I don't even know where to begin. Maybe you should start by picking up some Jazz albums, then maybe some Mark Twain or Walt Whitman. And as I'm sure you know, American history did not begin with the first white settlers. There were people and a civilization there long before my first ancestors arrived, and even though too much of that civilization has been relegated to the past, there are still vestiges of it to be appreciated. I used to go every summer to an All Nations Pow-pow with my best friend who is from the Haida-Tlingit nation, and I'll tell you now, you haven't lived until you've had fry bread . But, It's all relative, anyway, kind of like if someone from India or China were to tell an Englishman he has no history or culture. Good luck with your immigration.
Agree completely.
The history of the United States is fascinating and very rich. It may not be comprised of Kings and Queens or Barons or Gladiators, but it's an exciting history that has paved the way for this wonderful country to be what it is today whether or not one feels it good or bad. It is what it is. The 1600s, the 1700s and 1800s are a fascinating period to study, the population of the eastern states, the louisiana purchase, the south, the civil war, the indians, the cowboys, westward expansion, the gold rush and the boomtowns, then the explosive 1900s where pop culture such as cinema and music emerged and reigned. We are a melting pot of different entities and while it may not be sitting in a pub built in 1755 (in reference to an earlier post), but it's ours, and to be honest, my great great great great etc. etc grandfather just may have sat at that pub back in 1755. So his history is my history.
The problem is that showing such pride of where you come from (and unless you were born there, you DON'T COME FROM THERE) is disrespectful to the actual place where you actually come from, which is the USA, I assume. Apologies if you actually were born and raised in another country and I'm making assumptions.
That sense of pride to me just seems desperate. As an English person I don't enjoy seeing people who have never been here and have no clue what it means to be English talking about their "pride" of being English. Y ou're not English. You're American. Smile and enjoy it. Maybe if more people were proud to be American nobody would need to disassociate themselves from it by claiming to be from somewhere else. If people spent more time researching American history and culture and less time on their own geneology they would realise that there are a lot of things in American history to be proud of. Hell, there are a lot of things that I admire and enjoy reading about, even though I'm English and the USA overall is not one of my favourite places.
That phrase "roots" makes me want to scream. For an American person wo was born and raised in Seattle by parents who were born and raised in the USA, their roots are in Seattle! I've seen so many occasions of "yeah, my great-grandparents came from England in 1876, I'm so proud of my English roots".
Yeah, my ancestors came from Italy and Sweden. I am so proud of my Roman-Viking roots.
Ridiculous when put that way, isn't it?
no.
You honestly get the impression, not just from this thread, but just living in this world, seeing news and events for decades, that American's are notproud to be American? That is probably one of the largest complaints I seem to gather from this board and from non American's the 'overly buoyant pride' Americans have for themselves and country. If anything I would say about the US, is that most American's are proud to be American and love and are proud of their country. We just happen to add a little Japanese, Chinese, Mexican, Irish, Spanish mix into the recipe as well. Being proud of ones ancestry, or taking an interest in it is hardly showing disrespect for ones pride in being American. That is not how we see it.
The fascinating thing, is that your history or someone who was born in the UK, is not entirely different from "someone born and raised in Seattle". We all come from somewhere, and as much as you do not like the word 'roots', someone in Seattle's roots DO go back to some ancestor who, maybe 100 or 200 years ago, could have been a relative of yours or someone on this board and turned a different direction and left England or Ireland or Germany or Sweden and got on a boat and sailed off for some reason or another to America for a new life. Brave people they must have been. They probably could be related to you, have you ever thought of that? There really is not a whole lot of difference between many of us except for the land we were born on. And for that person above who said the US had no culture or history, well, there it is. THAT is an important part of our culture and history.
I find it amusing. I can see why people would want roots, and personally I would probably want them too, but if you are born in the USA then you are American. You are not Irish/German/Scottish or whatever. You may be of Irish descent, but that's a different thing.
Mind you I have heard people say that they were Asian though they were born in the UK - and they were speaking in a nationality sense, not an ethnicity one. Odd.
Yes, as we've tried to explain, I think the vast majority of us Americans understand this. The issue seems to be a matter of connotation and/or deliberate misunderstanding.
Its because Irish and Scotish were driven out by the english and they have unfinished feelings which gives them a strong connection with their past ansestory
Yes, as we've tried to explain, I think the vast majority of us Americans understand this. The issue seems to be a matter of connotation and/or deliberate misunderstanding.
You are correct. Explained over and over. This should be a sticky.
it most definitely is a matter or connotation and maybe even cultural phrasing. And definitely not any lack of pride in being American.
I loved how you mentioned "fry bread" earlier. My mother was born and raised on the Ft. Peck Reservation in Wolf Point Montana and she grew up with that. And so did I even though I was born in California.
I'm Assinaboine, Sioux and my fathers grand parents were (DUCKING) Irish. LOL. Im not certain if I've ruffled some feathers with that.
But for the record: I repeat "I AM NOT IRISH, I AM NOT AN IRISHMAN, I WAS NOT BORN IN IRELAND. I AM AN AMERICAN. LOL. (but I cannot tell a lie in saying my great grandparents were from Ireland:D and I am not particularly proud of that nor am I not proud. Ambivalent I guess. I'm more proud of my American Indian heritage.
I loved how you mentioned "fry bread" earlier. My mother was born and raised on the Ft. Peck Reservation in Wolf Point Montana and she grew up with that. And so did I even though I was born in California.
I'm Assinaboine, Sioux and my fathers grand parents were (DUCKING) Irish. LOL. Im not certain if I've ruffled some feathers with that.
But for the record: I repeat "I AM NOT IRISH, I AM NOT AN IRISHMAN, I WAS NOT BORN IN IRELAND. I AM AN AMERICAN. LOL. (but I cannot tell a lie in saying my great grandparents were from Ireland:D and I am not particularly proud of that nor am I not proud. Ambivalent I guess. I'm more proud of my American Indian heritage.
JUST AS LONG AS YOU KNOW YOU'RE NOT IRISH!!!!!
And yeah, once you've had fry bread, it's hard to get it out of your head.
I found out recently that someone from where I grew up (a suburb of Seattle) is now living in the same small North Yorkshire resort where my in-laws live. Apparently he makes Native American jewelry. Of course he does! Maybe I should start admonishing people in the UK who drive around with dream catchers in their car, for being plastic Ojibwa!
my grandfather was born and raised and canada, so i consider myself a quarter canadian. my grandmothers british, so i'd consider myself a quarter british
my dads, irish, so i consider myself half Irish. always thought it'd make more sense for me to have an irish passport but i have a british one at the minute, and as i live in the UK its easier to refer to my nationality as British.
There was NO 'English' army or an 'English' govt in 1845. There was a British army and a British govt. Do you actually bother to read people's replies?.
food was shipped out of Ireland while the irish starved, they were given food if they joined the English army or if they stopped speaking irish and stopped being catolic
Anglo-Irish landowners shipped food out. Not the govt. And are you aware that Britain BOUGHT corn and shipped it to Ireland in 1846?. And food relief was not conditional on language or religion, so where did you get that nonsense?.
Protestants in the north starved in their hundreds of thousands, between 100000 and possibly 300000 of the dead were Protestant and English speaking, so how could they be denied food when they were the very model of what it was to be British?.
I think it is fair to say that actions taken by the English led to a lot of people from Scotland and Ireland seeking to live elsewhere and many did go to America. What bearing this has on the op's point is debatable though.
There was NO 'English' army or an 'English' govt in 1845. There was a British army and a British govt. Do you actually bother to read people's replies?.
Anglo-Irish landowners shipped food out. Not the govt. And are you aware that Britain BOUGHT corn and shipped it to Ireland in 1846?. And food relief was not conditional on language or religion, so where did you get that nonsense?.
Protestants in the north starved in their hundreds of thousands, between 100000 and possibly 300000 of the dead were Protestant and English speaking, so how could they be denied food when they were the very model of what it was to be British?.
I think it is fair to say that actions taken by the English led to a lot of people from Scotland and Ireland seeking to live elsewhere and many did go to America. What bearing this has on the op's point is debatable though.
That was the point I was TRYING to make but as you can see some people on here just love their trolling:rolleyes:
You honestly get the impression, not just from this thread, but just living in this world, seeing news and events for decades, that American's are notproud to be American?
I don't see how it's possible to say that someone who obsesses over being anything but American is proud to be American! The self-centredness of Americans (in STEREOTYPES, I hasten to add) can be reflected most aptly in this obsession with being something else. I have, no joke, once talked to an American who expressed that she is "So proud to be Welsh, it's just amazing that I am from London!" Being self-centred and ignorant tot he wider world does not mean that one is proud of their own country. Indeed, how can you be proud of your own country if you don't know the wider detailed with which to compare it to?
The fascinating thing, is that your history or someone who was born in the UK, is not entirely different from "someone born and raised in Seattle". We all come from somewhere, and as much as you do not like the word 'roots', someone in Seattle's roots DO go back to some ancestor who, maybe 100 or 200 years ago, could have been a relative of yours or someone on this board and turned a different direction and left England or Ireland or Germany or Sweden and got on a boat and sailed off for some reason or another to America for a new life. Brave people they must have been. They probably could be related to you, have you ever thought of that? There really is not a whole lot of difference between many of us except for the land we were born on. And for that person above who said the US had no culture or history, well, there it is. THAT is an important part of our culture and history.
MY history has never crossed with somebody from Seattle, as far as I'm aware, because MY history does not extend back 100 or 200 years. It extends back to May 31st, 1987 - the day I was born. The day I began to exist. If you really want to be picky, my history extends to whatever date upon which I was conceived, if you consider that the moment that I began to exist.
100 or 200 years ago I did not exist, so it's not my history. It's someone else's.
I think it is fair to say that actions taken by the English led to a lot of people from Scotland and Ireland seeking to live elsewhere and many did go to America. What bearing this has on the op's point is debatable though.
But I am trying to point out that such decisions were not taken by 'the English' (boo hiss, pantomime villain) but by the British. By 1845, the Scots ran the Empire, two Scots had just founded the colony of Hong Kong, and Scots, Ulstermen and Welsh were part of the Empire, 'establishment' and the govt. The monarch was a young Englishwoman whose monarchy ruled Britain due to its Scottish lineage.
And can we blame 'the English' either for the Highland Clearances just a few years before?. No, as the villains of the piece there were wealthy and arrogant Scots.
I give up. Where did I say that?. I said the majority of ALL Scots and Irish emigrants left of their own accord.
ALL. That means those who went to America and Canada and further afield over the course of 200 years...............you ARE aware that Irish and Scots emigration to the new worlds started in the 1600's, not 1845 and the famine?.
That was the point I was TRYING to make but as you can see some people on here just love their trolling
Today 14:19
You post badly written posts which are full of errors, and I am the one who is trolling?.
I give up. Where did I say that?. I said the majority of ALL Scots and Irish emigrants left of their own accord.
ALL. That means those who went to America and Canada and further afield over the course of 200 years...............you ARE aware that Irish and Scots emigration to the new worlds started in the 1600's, not 1845 and the famine?.
You post badly written posts which are full of errors, and I am the one who is trolling?.
God is this DS or BS you just don't like being challanged, you don't answer points you just go off on your own rant which partly adresses what someone is trying to say but throws up more nonsence into the mire, this is me over and out can't be bothered anymore:rolleyes:
The problem is that showing such pride of where you come from (and unless you were born there, you DON'T COME FROM THERE) is disrespectful to the actual place where you actually come from, which is the USA, I assume. Apologies if you actually were born and raised in another country and I'm making assumptions.
That sense of pride to me just seems desperate. As an English person I don't enjoy seeing people who have never been here and have no clue what it means to be English talking about their "pride" of being English. Y ou're not English. You're American. Smile and enjoy it. Maybe if more people were proud to be American nobody would need to disassociate themselves from it by claiming to be from somewhere else. If people spent more time researching American history and culture and less time on their own geneology they would realise that there are a lot of things in American history to be proud of. Hell, there are a lot of things that I admire and enjoy reading about, even though I'm English and the USA overall is not one of my favourite places.
That phrase "roots" makes me want to scream. For an American person wo was born and raised in Seattle by parents who were born and raised in the USA, their roots are in Seattle! I've seen so many occasions of "yeah, my great-grandparents came from England in 1876, I'm so proud of my English roots".
Yeah, my ancestors came from Italy and Sweden. I am so proud of my Roman-Viking roots.
Ridiculous when put that way, isn't it?
Wow--you definitely don't know very much about America or Americans. Part of American pride is the whole notion of people from all around the world coming together to create a single nation--it's right there in the national motto of 'E pluribus unum'--Out of many, one. To an American celebrating their ethnic heritage is not mutually exclusive with being a proud American. The truth is there are various aspects that are today quintessentially American that actually have their roots in the cultural traditions of previous generations of immigrants.
For the people bent out of shape over Americans 'claiming' something you don't feel belongs to them--get a life. :rolleyes:
Wow--you definitely don't know very much about America or Americans. Part of American pride is the whole notion of people from all around the world coming together to create a single nation--it's right there in the national motto of 'E pluribus unum'--Out of many, one. To an American celebrating their ethnic heritage is not mutually exclusive with being a proud American. The truth is there are various aspects that are today quintessentially American that actually have their roots in the cultural traditions of previous generations of immigrants.
For the people bent out of shape over Americans 'claiming' something you don't feel belongs to them--get a life. :rolleyes:
The same is true of everywhere! Hell, our favourite food is Indian, yet we don't start talking about how proud we are of India.(even though I heave a great thanks to India every Friday night at the Mango Tree )
For someone to claim a specific group or country as their own is absurd if neither they, their parents or grandparents are from that country, they have no real connection to the culture and have a rather broad ethnic makeup. If they still insist on making such claims then there should be no surprise when queried on the matter!
Yes, as we've tried to explain, I think the vast majority of us Americans understand this. The issue seems to be a matter of connotation and/or deliberate misunderstanding.
I can understand this but perhaps the same way you can't really blame people who are actually German/Irish etc.. feeling a bit put out whe someone who has never lived there/spoken the language etc, calling themself Irish etc. It might be an understood to refer to ancestry in the US but here, in Europe you say you are Irish etc.. when you hold that passport. My husband's mother is Irish and he considers himself English because that is where he was born.
As a point of cultural understanding we can try uderstand your need to poit out ancestry but americans have to also understand if they say they are German (like some amercian tourists I met last year in Germany) and they have never been there, don't speak the language and base this on a german ancester from 1700 we will and did snigger and also might feel a bit put out.
For someone to claim a specific group or country as their own is absurd if neither they, their parents or grandparents are from that country, they have no real connection to the culture and have a rather broad ethnic makeup. If they still insist on making such claims then there should be no surprise when queried on the matter!
I'd guarantee the OP and others wouldn't think to question and query a Brit with Indian or Pakistani roots as to why they refer to it. It's just a simple bit of America bashing so beloved of certain people here.
Comments
Mind you I have heard people say that they were Asian though they were born in the UK - and they were speaking in a nationality sense, not an ethnicity one. Odd.
This. (or that.). I am about 40 something and when I was a child growing up in the San Francisco Bay area it was common to talk to other kids and out of normalcy ask "what are you" in terms of ethnicity. When you are young, and you go to school and there are kids who look different than you or are eating something strange or have mothers who have an accent, it's just normal to be curious and ask that. Not even strange at all. Not uncommon at all to hear "Im Mexican. I'm Irish. I'm Japanese" and so on. Then we'd be in school and do our Pledge Allegiance to the Flag and ultimately be American. I seriously doubt anyone confuses ethnicity with being born in a foreign country. It is just the way we phrase it. Uhh, foreign country to you all, with different ways of doing things and different interpretations.
But we are American first and foremost. That is a given and that is probably why some of you are confusing the issue because we dont say we are American to each other because we simply are.
Now you may have met someone who said this or that, and I dont hvae the energy to debate every single issue on this. But if it bothers you so much, be the gracious Brits you should be and smile and move on in life.
Agree completely.
The history of the United States is fascinating and very rich. It may not be comprised of Kings and Queens or Barons or Gladiators, but it's an exciting history that has paved the way for this wonderful country to be what it is today whether or not one feels it good or bad. It is what it is. The 1600s, the 1700s and 1800s are a fascinating period to study, the population of the eastern states, the louisiana purchase, the south, the civil war, the indians, the cowboys, westward expansion, the gold rush and the boomtowns, then the explosive 1900s where pop culture such as cinema and music emerged and reigned. We are a melting pot of different entities and while it may not be sitting in a pub built in 1755 (in reference to an earlier post), but it's ours, and to be honest, my great great great great etc. etc grandfather just may have sat at that pub back in 1755. So his history is my history.
no.
You honestly get the impression, not just from this thread, but just living in this world, seeing news and events for decades, that American's are notproud to be American? That is probably one of the largest complaints I seem to gather from this board and from non American's the 'overly buoyant pride' Americans have for themselves and country. If anything I would say about the US, is that most American's are proud to be American and love and are proud of their country. We just happen to add a little Japanese, Chinese, Mexican, Irish, Spanish mix into the recipe as well. Being proud of ones ancestry, or taking an interest in it is hardly showing disrespect for ones pride in being American. That is not how we see it.
The fascinating thing, is that your history or someone who was born in the UK, is not entirely different from "someone born and raised in Seattle". We all come from somewhere, and as much as you do not like the word 'roots', someone in Seattle's roots DO go back to some ancestor who, maybe 100 or 200 years ago, could have been a relative of yours or someone on this board and turned a different direction and left England or Ireland or Germany or Sweden and got on a boat and sailed off for some reason or another to America for a new life. Brave people they must have been. They probably could be related to you, have you ever thought of that? There really is not a whole lot of difference between many of us except for the land we were born on. And for that person above who said the US had no culture or history, well, there it is. THAT is an important part of our culture and history.
Yes, as we've tried to explain, I think the vast majority of us Americans understand this. The issue seems to be a matter of connotation and/or deliberate misunderstanding.
History not your strong point is it.
do the irish and the scots weren't drivin out by the english then :rolleyes:
I think 5 million irish people who went to America during the famine would beg to differ
You are correct. Explained over and over. This should be a sticky.
it most definitely is a matter or connotation and maybe even cultural phrasing. And definitely not any lack of pride in being American.
aloha
Mahalo, and hang loose.
shaka sign to you
I loved how you mentioned "fry bread" earlier. My mother was born and raised on the Ft. Peck Reservation in Wolf Point Montana and she grew up with that. And so did I even though I was born in California.
I'm Assinaboine, Sioux and my fathers grand parents were (DUCKING) Irish. LOL. Im not certain if I've ruffled some feathers with that.
But for the record: I repeat "I AM NOT IRISH, I AM NOT AN IRISHMAN, I WAS NOT BORN IN IRELAND. I AM AN AMERICAN. LOL. (but I cannot tell a lie in saying my great grandparents were from Ireland:D
JUST AS LONG AS YOU KNOW YOU'RE NOT IRISH!!!!!
And yeah, once you've had fry bread, it's hard to get it out of your head.
I found out recently that someone from where I grew up (a suburb of Seattle) is now living in the same small North Yorkshire resort where my in-laws live. Apparently he makes Native American jewelry. Of course he does! Maybe I should start admonishing people in the UK who drive around with dream catchers in their car, for being plastic Ojibwa!
I bet you're too gracious to do that.. (but I love that term you used!).
my dads, irish, so i consider myself half Irish. always thought it'd make more sense for me to have an irish passport but i have a british one at the minute, and as i live in the UK its easier to refer to my nationality as British.
Me? Gracious?
Anyway, I'm off for now. Say hello to the fishes in Hanauma Bay for me. I sure do miss em.
There was NO 'English' army or an 'English' govt in 1845. There was a British army and a British govt. Do you actually bother to read people's replies?.
Anglo-Irish landowners shipped food out. Not the govt. And are you aware that Britain BOUGHT corn and shipped it to Ireland in 1846?. And food relief was not conditional on language or religion, so where did you get that nonsense?.
Protestants in the north starved in their hundreds of thousands, between 100000 and possibly 300000 of the dead were Protestant and English speaking, so how could they be denied food when they were the very model of what it was to be British?.
I think it is fair to say that actions taken by the English led to a lot of people from Scotland and Ireland seeking to live elsewhere and many did go to America. What bearing this has on the op's point is debatable though.
so 5 million left of their own accord LOL
That was the point I was TRYING to make but as you can see some people on here just love their trolling:rolleyes:
I don't see how it's possible to say that someone who obsesses over being anything but American is proud to be American! The self-centredness of Americans (in STEREOTYPES, I hasten to add) can be reflected most aptly in this obsession with being something else. I have, no joke, once talked to an American who expressed that she is "So proud to be Welsh, it's just amazing that I am from London!" Being self-centred and ignorant tot he wider world does not mean that one is proud of their own country. Indeed, how can you be proud of your own country if you don't know the wider detailed with which to compare it to?
MY history has never crossed with somebody from Seattle, as far as I'm aware, because MY history does not extend back 100 or 200 years. It extends back to May 31st, 1987 - the day I was born. The day I began to exist. If you really want to be picky, my history extends to whatever date upon which I was conceived, if you consider that the moment that I began to exist.
100 or 200 years ago I did not exist, so it's not my history. It's someone else's.
But I am trying to point out that such decisions were not taken by 'the English' (boo hiss, pantomime villain) but by the British. By 1845, the Scots ran the Empire, two Scots had just founded the colony of Hong Kong, and Scots, Ulstermen and Welsh were part of the Empire, 'establishment' and the govt. The monarch was a young Englishwoman whose monarchy ruled Britain due to its Scottish lineage.
And can we blame 'the English' either for the Highland Clearances just a few years before?. No, as the villains of the piece there were wealthy and arrogant Scots.
:rolleyes:
I give up. Where did I say that?. I said the majority of ALL Scots and Irish emigrants left of their own accord.
ALL. That means those who went to America and Canada and further afield over the course of 200 years...............you ARE aware that Irish and Scots emigration to the new worlds started in the 1600's, not 1845 and the famine?.
You post badly written posts which are full of errors, and I am the one who is trolling?.
God is this DS or BS you just don't like being challanged, you don't answer points you just go off on your own rant which partly adresses what someone is trying to say but throws up more nonsence into the mire, this is me over and out can't be bothered anymore:rolleyes:
For the people bent out of shape over Americans 'claiming' something you don't feel belongs to them--get a life. :rolleyes:
The same is true of everywhere! Hell, our favourite food is Indian, yet we don't start talking about how proud we are of India.(even though I heave a great thanks to India every Friday night at the Mango Tree
I can understand this but perhaps the same way you can't really blame people who are actually German/Irish etc.. feeling a bit put out whe someone who has never lived there/spoken the language etc, calling themself Irish etc. It might be an understood to refer to ancestry in the US but here, in Europe you say you are Irish etc.. when you hold that passport. My husband's mother is Irish and he considers himself English because that is where he was born.
As a point of cultural understanding we can try uderstand your need to poit out ancestry but americans have to also understand if they say they are German (like some amercian tourists I met last year in Germany) and they have never been there, don't speak the language and base this on a german ancester from 1700 we will and did snigger and also might feel a bit put out.
I'd guarantee the OP and others wouldn't think to question and query a Brit with Indian or Pakistani roots as to why they refer to it. It's just a simple bit of America bashing so beloved of certain people here.